Rioting in St Louis

[Irish#1]

I agree with some and disagree with some. I think he was trying hard to be agreeable with everyone and didn't really take a hard stance.

That's a cop out (no pun intended). But it doesn't surprise me since it doesn't fit your position.

That was a well thought out statement. I took nothing from that that made me think he was trying to be agreeable. Agreeable with whom? Why bother to make the statement if that's what he was doing?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Another thing that I don't know if I've mentioned that I have a problem on is no-knock raids. One, the drug war is ridiculous. Two, many times they have not done their intel properly and have raided houses without drugs in them. Three, any self-defense is just called murdering or shooting a cop. Four, innocent people can get hurt just by being related to someone.

I think a major problem that comes from the militarization of the police is that they start acting like a military in a foreign country. They treat people like foreign combatants instead of American citizens. That's the root of all police brutality, IMO.

 

[irishff1014]

Some people just hate the police like no justice no peace!

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

U.N. report on torture recommends prompt, impartial investigations of police brutality : News

A report released today by the United Nations Committee Against Torture recommends prompt, impartial investigations of allegations of police brutality and prosecution of those officers.

The parents of Michael Brown, Lesley McSpadden and Michael Brown Sr., and several other local activists met with the committee in Geneva earlier this month.

They presented information alleging that the shooting of Michael Brown by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson and police tactics used toward protesters in the aftermath of Brown’s death constitute violations of the U.N.’s anti-torture convention.

This week, a St. Louis County grand jury decided that no charges should be issued against Wilson.

In its 16-page report, the U.N. committee expressed concern about numerous reports of police brutality and excessive use of force by law enforcement, in particular "against persons belonging to certain racial and ethnic groups, immigrants and LGBTI individuals, racial profiling by police and immigration offices and growing militarization of police activities."

It mentioned allegations of police violence in Chicago against African-American and Latino young people but did not specifically mention Brown's shooting or the protests that followed.

It made these recommendations:

• Ensure that all instances of police brutality and excessive use of force by law enforcement officers are investigated promptly, effectively and impartially by an independent mechanism with no institutional of hierarchical connection between the investigators and the alleged perpetrators.

• Prosecute persons suspected of torture or ill-treatment and, if found guilty, ensure that they are punished in accordance with the gravity of their acts.

• Provide effective remedies and rehabilitation to the victims.

In their presentation, Brown's parents called for the arrest of Wilson and the resignation of Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson. They also asked for the Ferguson Police Department to be placed under federal receivership.

They also called for Gov. Jay Nixon to apologize to protesters for the “intimidation and excessive force used against them” and offer amnesty to protesters who were arrested.

The U.N. committee monitors an agreement by 156 nations not to engage in torture or inhumane treatment and consists of 10 human rights experts from around the world.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Some people just hate the police like no justice no peace!

Come on baby don't be like that

 

[Bishop2b5]

Kind of ridiculous... again, if you are literally hauling ass in the opposite direction of the cop you physically cannot be an imminent threat. If you're running AT a cop it's a different story.

Nobody wants the cops to shoot someone unnecessarily, especially if they aren't a reasonable threat to anyone. However, a person may no longer be an imminent threat to the police when he runs away, but he may still be a very real threat to innocent bystanders as he flees. Imagine the cops try to apprehend someone armed with a sword, knife or gun, and he runs from them through a crowded area such as a mall, school yard, busy sidewalk, etc. Along the way he slashes, stabs or shoots an innocent bystander. We'd all be asking why the cops didn't shoot him first to prevent this, especially if he'd already shown a willingness to use the weapon by first threatening the cops with it.

 

[irishff1014]

Another thing that I don't know if I've mentioned that I have a problem on is no-knock raids. One, the drug war is ridiculous. Two, many times they have not done their intel properly and have raided houses without drugs in them. Three, any self-defense is just called murdering or shooting a cop. Four, innocent people can get hurt just by being related to someone.

I think a major problem that comes from the militarization of the police is that they start acting like a military in a foreign country. They treat people like foreign combatants instead of American citizens. That's the root of all police brutality, IMO.

Because they don't have to get a warrent for that so some judge had to think they had enough evidence.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Threatening

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

An eyewitness told the local ABC affiliate that initially, police were speaking calmly with Hunt: “I felt like they were very professional. They were keeping their distance, their voices were not raised,” she said. All of a sudden, “There were shots, and there was a chase.” Hunt, she said, was “running away.”

Darrien Hunt Shot 6 Times in the Back by Police -- NYMag

 

[Bishop2b5]

Here's an idea. Don't be involved with drug use or drug dealing. Don't get drunk in public and act like an ass. Don't rob people. Don't assault people. Don't vandalize property. Don't steal. Don't associate with people who do any of these things. Your chances of having a bad experience with the police will go down dramatically regardless of race.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Prosecutor incompetence. How do these people have jobs this important? I don't know if it was rigged or if they're just morons.

Shocking mistake in Darren Wilson grand jury | MSNBC

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Here's an idea. Don't be involved with drug use or drug dealing. Don't get drunk in public and act like an ass. Don't rob people. Don't assault people. Don't vandalize property. Don't steal. Don't associate with people who do any of these things. Your chances of having a bad experience with the police will go down dramatically regardless of race.

Don't dress up in a costume, don't look like someone who might deal drugs, don't be the 2 year old child of someone who is mistaken for a dealer, don't sleep, don't exist, don't go out in public.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

"Here's an idea. Don't drink. Don't talk to guys. Don't act sexual in any way. Don't have consensual sex ever. Your chances of being raped will go down dramatically."

 

[Bishop2b5]

Darrien Hunt Shot 6 Times in the Back by Police -- NYMag

So, he threatened the cops with a sword and then ran away from them down a busy sidewalk full of innocent bystanders while still carrying that sword. Yeah, totally not his fault and he did nothing to cause the shooting.

They didn't shoot the black store clerk stocking shelves. Didn't shoot the black teenager flipping burgers. Didn't shoot the little old black lady walking home with an arm full of groceries. Didn't shoot the black father walking his kids to the playground. Just the black guy wielding a sword while running down a busy sidewalk after threatening them with that sword. Maybe they weren't really interested in shooting black people... only people who brandish weapons in public and threaten to use them.

 

[Bishop2b5]

"Here's an idea. Don't drink. Don't talk to guys. Don't act sexual in any way. Don't have consensual sex ever. Your chances of being raped will go down dramatically."

Criminal behavior versus non-criminal behavior. There's a big difference.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I can't remember who it was who propagated the lie about Darrien Hunt being on LSD.

Mom sobs over official Darrien Hunt autopsy report | fox13now.com

The family met with the press Tuesday to discuss the findings. Hunt’s mother became emotional as she reviewed the details, especially the state’s toxicology tests, which found Hunt was not under the influence of any substances at the time.

I'm sure whoever it was did it respectfully though.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

It's not a weapon, the witnesses don't back up with the cops, and the cops have already lied in this case.

It's victim blaming all the same. Do you think that drug use or robbery should be a death sentence? It doesn't matter. What matters is the interaction with the cop. You're just giving them a license to kill whenever if the person isn't Jesus or the Virgin Mary.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Defend the cops who killed Darrien Hunt, defend the cops who killed Tamir Rice, what is the improper action a cop could reasonably take ever?

 

[phgreek]

Kind of ridiculous... again, if you are literally hauling ass in the opposite direction of the cop you physically cannot be an imminent threat. If you're running AT a cop it's a different story.

...yes you absolutely can be a threat ...to other people in the area.

..why can't you guys think beyond the immediate confrontation between cop and citizen, its like thats all cops think about...their own safety, and that is generally bullshit...

...its ridiculous to think you know what someone plans to do once they elude cops

...if he has shown aggression with a weapon...he must be contained.

...You don't get to foist your opinion of what you think he was capable of if he eluded cops...with the sword.

...Either the cops operated within protocol, or they didn't.

I personally think there is room for discretion if the guy dropped the sword and ran...but only then could the cops de-escalate after the guy acted aggressively with the sword. Only then could cops see the guy as a non threat. So NO its not ridiculous...it may make you feel uncomfortable, or seem heavy handed, but thats how it should work.

If you do not like the protocols go to the city council and bring it up in a meeting, and discuss it, and change it. I like ours...so stay where you are and "fix" yours.

 

[Cackalacky]

He was open carrying.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm a middle class white guy who today purchased a large coffee at Dunkin Donuts. Served by a black woman. On Black Friday. Basically the most racist thing I've ever done in my life.

NJNP, it might make the local paper tomorrow and fit into your "systematic" or "institutional" mechanism file. Keep a look out.

 

[Bishop2b5]

It's not a weapon, the witnesses don't back up with the cops, and the cops have already lied in this case.

It's victim blaming all the same. Do you think that drug use or robbery should be a death sentence? It doesn't matter. What matters is the interaction with the cop. You're just giving them a license to kill whenever if the person isn't Jesus or the Virgin Mary.

The victims ARE to blame in many cases. You don't point a gun at someone and threaten them during the commission of a crime and then claim innocence when the cops shoot you. Shouldn't have been committing the crime. You brought it on yourself.

It doesn't matter if the weapon is real or fake. We've all seen pics of the sword. It looked real. By your own admission, the initial interaction he had with the cops was peaceful. All he had to do was say, "Hey, it's just a toy" and hand it to them. Everyone laughs and goes on their way. No, he instead threatens them with it and runs down a busy sidewalk wielding the sword.

If Darren Wilson hadn't just robbed a store and assaulted the owner, assaulted the police officer who tried to detain and question him about the robbery, and hadn't turned and charged that police officer while ignoring orders to stop, there's virtually no chance he'd have been killed that day. He brought it on himself. Why don't you put some of the responsibility for these sorts of things on those who created the situation by engaging in thuggish, criminal behavior instead of just blaming the cops for all of it?

Look, nobody's saying that there aren't some bad cops out there, or some good cops who make bad decisions sometimes. Your apparent belief that all cop shootings are against innocent people and motivated by racism are baloney though. The bottom line is that if you're engaged in criminal activity, regardless of your race, you're putting yourself in that dangerous situation with a high likelihood of things going badly for you. Nobody's fault but your own.

 

[Cackalacky]

...yes you absolutely can be a threat ...to other people in the area.

..why can't you guys think beyond the immediate confrontation between cop and citizen, its like thats all cops think about...their own safety, and that is generally bullshit...

...its ridiculous to think you know what someone plans to do once they elude cops

...if he has shown aggression with a weapon...he must be contained.

...You don't get to foist your opinion of what you think he was capable of if he eluded cops...with the sword.

...Either the cops operated within protocol, or they didn't.

I personally think there is room for discretion if the guy dropped the sword and ran...but only then could the cops de-escalate after the guy acted aggressively with the sword. Only then could cops see the guy as a non threat. So NO its not ridiculous...it may make you feel uncomfortable, or seem heavy handed, but thats how it should work.

If you do not like the protocols go to the city council and bring it up in a meeting, and discuss it, and change it. I like ours...so stay where you are and "fix" yours.

Probably the same reason the I think restraint is always the best course of action rather than trusting servants of the public to administer field justice. Sure there is always a reason to discharge weapons but the best option is to contain and detain. Not execute people.

 

[phgreek]

He was open carrying.

I agree...I love open carry...I see it literally every day. Cops stop open carry folks multiple times a day, and make sure they are ok in the head...but none of them un-holstered and pointed at the cops...so there ya go.

 

[phgreek]

Probably the same reason the I think restraint is always the best course of action rather than trusting servants of the public to administer field justice. Sure there is always a reason to discharge weapons but the best option is to contain and detain. Not execute people.

I think I used "contain", and when that fails...

 

[phgreek]

I'm a middle class white guy who today purchased a large coffee at Dunkin Donuts. Served by a black woman. On Black Friday. Basically the most racist thing I've ever done in my life.

NJNP, it might make the local paper tomorrow and fit into your "systematic" or "institutional" mechanism file. Keep a look out.

depends...did ya tip her?

 

[phgreek]

Defend the cops who killed Darrien Hunt, defend the cops who killed Tamir Rice, what is the improper action a cop could reasonably take ever?

Denver...

 

[Cackalacky]

I think I used "contain", and when that fails...

What? Justifiable murder? Without due process? No trial? The Police's MO should always be to capture and detain when at all possible. The absolute last action should be to use deadly force. If they default to use of weapons they are basically vigilantes and not providing the service they are intended to provide.

 

[dad4aa]

Here's an idea. Don't be involved with drug use or drug dealing. Don't get drunk in public and act like an ass. Don't rob people. Don't assault people. Don't vandalize property. Don't steal. Don't associate with people who do any of these things. Your chances of having a bad experience with the police will go down dramatically regardless of race.

^This

Let me add...there are 196 countries in the world. If this someone feels this country is so bad, use the freedom this country had provided and get the fuck out.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I'm a middle class white guy who today purchased a large coffee at Dunkin Donuts. Served by a black woman. On Black Friday. Basically the most racist thing I've ever done in my life.

NJNP, it might make the local paper tomorrow and fit into your "systematic" or "institutional" mechanism file. Keep a look out.

Good on you for interacting with a person. I'm sure it was difficult but you persevered and that's all that matters.