Rioting in St Louis

[BobD]

I had heard a rumor that you had a life size cutout of Strom Thrommond in you closet. I was puzzled to hear it was signed, "Bob, Thank's for all your support, Strom"

Not Strom, that's for sure. I support Civil Rights.

Might be a shocker ......My favorite President in my lifetime is Ronnie.

 

[ACamp1900]

Not Strom, that's for sure. I support Civil Rights.

Might be a shocker ......My favorite President in my lifetime is Ronnie.

Jimmy Carter's nickname was "Ronnie"????

 

[Irish#1]

You aim dead center mass, and that is the ONLY place you aim. But the adrenaline is pulsing through your body, so you don't always hit where you aim. The two shots to the head most likely came as the kid was falling forward (or charging forward, depending on which story you think is most accurate) and the officer was just emptying his magazine. In other words, I don't think the guy consciously shot the kid in the face or the top of the head, nor do I think he aimed at either of those points. I think it is more likely that those points on his body fell through the point where the officer WAS aiming.

Agree...........You have to be another Dirty Harry to hit a moving target in a specific area with a hand gun.

 

[Irish#1]

Recently we've had several policemen killed in the line of duty. There was a city council meeting last night in Indy. The Mayor was presenting his new safety proposal to add additional officers and fund more education to help stop crime.

In watching the local news coverage, I was embarrassed to see several council members had "Hands up, don't shoot" signs in front of their name plate. To me they were insinuating the police in Indy shoot first and ask questions later.

People need to let events run their course, then protest if the outcome isn't what you want.

 

[Booslum31]

You had no empathy in the first place.

You seem pretty certain about this. How would you know? Are you the only one on this board capable of showing/feeling empathy? Verbalizing disgust for for the sub-human behavior since the shooting does not make someone unsympathetic or void of empathy. I think that it means the person is reasonable and logical...not blind and close minded. This is the sense that I'm getting from you as you deflect every new development that reveals the true nature of the situation. You defend the the victim and the the crowd regardless of what gets revealed. I really appreciate when someone is passionate about an issue. I rally do...it bugs me when I sense someone is totally close minded. Sorry. I think it's time for me to bail out of this thread. I say that...but I'll keep jumping back in. Go Irish!

 

[Bluto]

The guy was yelling at the cops to kill him... to shoot him. Raised his knife over head from 3-4 ft away. Legit shooting.

The annoying this is that as soon as this new got out, all a lot of people heard was "cop shot black man". Within minutes, there were protesters at the scene of the crime chanting "Hands up, don't shoot" and yelling at the Police Chief. It's absurd how these people seem to 100% disregard the facts and jump to cop killing. People cry out that racism is rampant. I don't disagree, but it certainly comes from both directions. Just because you were oppressed for years doesn't make you immune from being racist.

I think you are confusing bigotry with racism.

 

[BGIF]

I think you are confusing bigotry with racism.

Racism is a subset of bigotry.

 

[kmoose]

People need to let events run their course, then protest if the outcome isn't what you want.

Agreed. However, if you protest loud enough, the odds are that you will get the outcome you want.

That's the thought, anyway.

 

[BobD]

The problem with protest like this is there is no organization, real leadership or forethought. There are no goals stated or agreed upon that would act as a punch list in the end to show whether a victory had been achieved or not.

At the end of this unorganized mess in Ferguson where punks and hoodlums have stolen the show, it will end with people just being appeased some how so they'll shut up and go home.

Poor representation IMHO has held the black community down far more than anything else over the last ten years.

 

[BGIF]

A "good night" in Ferguson.

No Molotov cocktails

No Tear Gas

No police Guns fired

Arrests down to 43

There were some incidents with bottles and urine thrown and pepper spray in response. Then there were the twits that drove up to police mobile heaquarters and yelled, "Shoot the cops!" Yes, they got arrested and the handguns in the car confiscated.

Capt Johnson praised the clergy, volunteers, and the police for keeping it calmer. He also thanked the volunteers who come out each morning to clean up the litter and broken glass from the previous night's demonstratios, he had a special thanks by name for a woman who offered hot dogs on the grill to cops and volunteers. He noted his dog was very good.

He had a polite but stern response for a reporter, I believe a CNN reporter who had complained about the helmets and shields on air, who suggested that the cops NOT put on their helmets nor pick up their riot shields. He pointed out that action incited the crowd. Johnson stared at the man, then in measured tones he said when he got home the night before at 3:30 am, his wife was up and greeted him with, "You broke your promise. You didn't have your bullet proof vest on. You promised you would." He added all the cops have families also and will continue to wear their safety gear.

 

[BGIF]

Agreed. However, if you protest loud enough, the odds are that you will get the outcome you want.

That's the thought, anyway.

Seems to be working with the Governor.

Missouri gov calls for 'vigorous prosecution' of Ferguson shooting case | Fox News

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon drew criticism from his own Lt. Governor Tuesday when he said "a vigorous prosecution must now be pursued" in the shooting death of black 18-year-old Michael Brown by white police Officer Darren Wilson in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson.

The Police Union rep had stern words for the gov about not pre-judging.

It was pointed out the an Indictment was required first. The gov could have commented about he expected all investigators, forensic staff, and prosecutors due a thorough job dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's". But he didn't he sounded like many of the demonstrators that have already decided a verdict.

BTW in MO a D.A. does not have to convene a Grand Jury. The DA can issue an indictment on his own. Also the Gov has the authority to appoint a Special Prosecutor in lieu of the local DA. Gov Nixon played Pontius Pilate and washed his hands by giving the DA the choice to recuse himself despite the DA having about a half dozen relatives in law enforcement. The talking heads noted that instead of separating himself from a possible unpopular verdict, he's put his head in the noose by not punting the choice to recuse to the DA instead on making an Executive Decision.

 

[kmoose]

This story just gets worse as it goes along..........

Now they have a black St. Louis alderman on camera. He is saying that any record that Michael Brown may, or may not have had, is irrelevant, because even those with a record still have rights. He is absolutely correct that those with a record still have rights. The problem comes when he is also complaining that the Police have released no background information about the Police Officer, so we can see about his character. So if the cop has something negative in his background, then it speaks to his character, and is relevant to his truthfulness..... BUT, if a young black man has a record, that DOESN'T speak to his character, and is irrelevant to how he may have approached the police stop?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

People need to let events run their course, then protest if the outcome isn't what you want.

The outcome hasn't been what people want for decades. This isn't just about Michael Brown. It's about all unarmed people who have been killed by cops. It's just reached a boiling point. People are sick of this stuff and are reacting.

 

[wizards8507]

It's about all unarmed people who have been killed by cops.

You act like this guy was on his way to work or to watch his brother's Little League game, not on the run for knocking over a convenience store. We have very few facts in this case, but let's review what we know for 100% certain:

1. Michael Brown is a violent criminal.
2. Michael Brown was shot and killed by the police after committing a violent crime.

That's it. That's all we know for sure. Everything else (on either side) comes from unreliable eyewitnesses. Either #2 was justified based on the details of the encounter that took place, or it was not. Given the FACT established in #1, I'm inclined to believe that the shooting was justified. I don't know anything about the police officer's character or state of mind, but I DO know something about Michael Brown's character and state of mind. In a "he-sad-she-said" situation, the benefit of the doubt goes to the guy who wasn't just caught on a security camera commiting a felony.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The penalty for stealing isn't death.

 

[kmoose]

The penalty for stealing isn't death.

Who said it was?

 

[wizards8507]

The penalty for stealing isn't death.

Are you deliberately twisting what I said, or do you really not see the nuance?

I did NOT say "it's okay for a cop to shoot someone for stealing."

I DID say "a known criminal is unlikely to put his hands up and come quietly in an encounter with the police, therefore I give the benefit of the doubt to the police that Mr. Brown did something in addition to the theft that provoked the shooting."

NOT THIS: Shoot thieves.

THIS: When facts are in doubt, err on the side of believing the guy who DIDN'T just rob a store.

Also, with Mr. Brown's character in question, it's also reasonable to be highly suspicious of his friends. The only "eyewitnesses" depicting the "hands up, don't shoot" scenario are individuals who are highly likely to be criminals themselves.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There are two other witnesses who aren't criminals who have publicly stated that Brown didn't charge Wilson.

 

[kmoose]

There are two other witnesses who aren't criminals who have publicly stated that Brown didn't charge Wilson.

And at least one that did............

what's your point?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Officer Go Fuck Yourself- Rebelutionary_Z #Ferguson Livestream Clip - YouTube

Speaking of criminals....

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

And at least one that did............

what's your point?

My point is clear. Three eyewitnesses have publicly said Brown wasn't charging and I haven't heard one other than the cop who said he was. If we throw out the biased parties of Wilson and Johnson, that's two eyewitnesses who said that Brown wasn't attacking.

 

[wizards8507]

My point is clear. Three eyewitnesses have publicly said Brown wasn't charging and I haven't heard one other than the cop who said he was. If we throw out the biased parties of Wilson and Johnson, that's two eyewitnesses who said that Brown wasn't attacking.

And I'm sure those eyewitnesses don't have an agenda. I bet they didn't see Brown rob the convenience store, either. How many times have we heard "fuck the police" in the last week?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

They used their magical black telepathy to organize the story and their agenda. You wouldn't believe anything a Ferguson witness would say, would you?

 

[Sureal]

Well from all of the conflicting reports from various sources, it seems to me that there is more speculating than anything else...on both sides. Character evaluations whether good or bad does not change what happened meaning the only thing that should be discussed is what actually happened in that instant.
First I hear Brown robbed the store and then yesterday I am hearing he actually paid for the cigars. He never got stopped based on the supposed robbery but for walking in the middle of the street. Then it was something else...who really knows anymore.
I guess what is frustrating for me is the lack of value for life and the instant polarization from people outside of that community. The censorship in some instances of the media is alarming to me as well and even in those incidents we won't get the full story. The consistant rioting is counter productive.
The spirit of this country right now is unhealthy. We still live in the best country on earth but it's time we actually listen to each other once again.

 

[Sureal]

And I'm sure those eyewitnesses don't have an agenda. I bet they didn't see Brown rob the convenience store, either. How many times have we heard "fuck the police" in the last week?

Seems to me that everyone has an agenda in this.

 

[wizards8507]

They used their magical black telepathy to organize the story and their agenda. You wouldn't believe anything a Ferguson witness would say, would you?

Exactly, because I'm racist.

 

[ndfi78]

My point is clear. Three eyewitnesses have publicly said Brown wasn't charging and I haven't heard one other than the cop who said he was. If we throw out the biased parties of Wilson and Johnson, that's two eyewitnesses who said that Brown wasn't attacking.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop's version of events in shooting <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ferguson?src=hash">#Ferguson</a></p>— Christine Byers (@ChristineDByers) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/statuses/501556693382094848">August 19, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I don't see how so many shots could be fired.

I don't see how there wasn't any video of this.

I don't see why there are people spray painting, "Snitches get stitches" on the sides of buildings.

I don't see why there are supposedly some witnesses who say he charged the police officer. I don't see why there are some witnesses who say he held up his hands while being shot.

I don't see how anyone can be certain about what happened in this case given the limited amount of information.

 

[Wild Bill]

Exactly, because I'm racist.

called it

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

Regardless who who's story is the truth, one thing I was thinking about is how every single decision we make, regardless of how trivial you might think it is, has a consequence----Obviously, nothing earth shattering. But it's just how fate or coincidence or luck or chance or however you feel things happen can absolutely alter thousands of lives

Like if that woman had just let them walk out of the store it would have saved him 10 seconds and he might have been on the sidewalk by the time the cop was rounding the corner so the cop sees them and just drives by and the maybe the guy shot yesterday in Saint Louis is still alive (assuming he was set off by what he's been seeing on TV).

Coincidence/fate/right place wrong time/right place right time/luck always marvel me.