Religion

[Sea Turtle]

What do you guys think about the Preterist view of escatology in Revelation, Mathew and Daniel? Particularly as it relates to the Jewish rebellion in AD 66-72 and the destruction of the temple in AD 70.

 

[ColinKSU]

Okay, this might seem to be a boring poll, but I guess I'm just most interested in seeing how many protestants there are in our fan-base---at least in the one represented on this site.

My cousins are presbyterians and are the biggest ND fans in the world.

Born and raised Catholic, but I don't believe in anything anymore. No god, no plan. Everything is random and nothing is fair. We close our eyes and that's it.

 

[TheProspector]

Born and raised Catholic, but I don't believe in anything anymore. No god, no plan. Everything is random and nothing is fair. We close our eyes and that's it.

With respect to randomness only, I actually think the complete opposite. Nothing is random. Things can be improbable, but not random. There is a cause and effect to everything, even the most improbable of events.

 

[Blazers46]

The Church is a tool to use to help me. It is to serve me, not I it.

Can you expand on what you mean by this? The church is the body of believers. So are you saying the people are tools to help you and you not help them back?

 

[Avila]

Well, I learned a new word today.

Out of curiosity, what makes you chary of the Nicene Creed? It's used in other Christian denominations, correct (Episcopalian, Orthodox, Lutheran)?

At the end of the day, the denominations really aren't that important to me. The beliefs may vary some and others may have more liturgy than others, but in Christianity, I suppose we're all on the same team, maybe with just different functions and purposes (like a baseball team: pitcher, cathcher, first baseman, center fielder, etc).

Sure, let me try to offer an initial response, or the next item in an ongoing discussion.

First on the occasions when I attend Catholic liturgies (frequently, as I love taking Eucharist) I always stand in reverence, out of respect for my fellow children of God, during the Nicene Creed. I just decline to say the words. Jesus is True North (and THROUGH that true north to the Spirit and the Father)

I love the concept of Ecclesia, gathering, but there are suboptimal things that happen when the church distractys attention, focus or loyalty from individual souls.

Jesus came for you, as in YOU, Hautian Domer, not to the exclusion of others, but completely, as for all the other wondrous would in this thread, including my Quaker and Muslim brothers.

I grew up Roman CAtholic, and there are many things the Catholic Church does that are of great help to a wandering soul. But they are of their highest and best use when they are tools, lubricants, magnifying glasses that illuminate God ;to the soul and the soul to god.

I have friends in non Catholic denominations who are highly enthusiastic about the Nicene Creed.

Now to your baseball analogy, which I loved. Let me see you one and raise you one. May I suggest an organism, a human type organism, a body, with all these throbbing visceral organs and cells and fluids and bones and cartilage and the "spirit" side, body mind and soul, all working together, at decidedly different sub tasks, to create the vibrant organism?

Or even a vine, with a lot of branches...........................

Happy Lent, if you Lent. I went all in on Ash Wednesday and my Lenten, reading meditation, wondermetn, whatever is of two DECIDEDLY Roman Catholic souls. And it feels great.

This is my job, HAUTIAN Domer. I Must, as in MUST support your bonding with God, Jesus whatever. and look forward to so doing.

 

[T-Boone]

What do you guys think about the Preterist view of escatology in Revelation, Mathew and Daniel? Particularly as it relates to the Jewish rebellion in AD 66-72 and the destruction of the temple in AD 70.

It is interesting.

 

[Wild Bill]

Born and raised Catholic, but I don't believe in anything anymore. No god, no plan. Everything is random and nothing is fair. We close our eyes and that's it.

I'm curious, despite feeling like everything is random and unfair, do you find yourself more or less at peace now?

 

[ColinKSU]

I'm curious, despite feeling like everything is random and unfair, do you find yourself more or less at peace now?

I’m 38. My father died from Lewy Body Dementia in August and my 39-year-old wife was just diagnosed with ALS. I just watched my father’s mind slowly fail him and when I buried him, my reward was that I get to watch my wife’s body slowly fail her. The two most important people in my life will be gone before I’m 40.

I’m very much not at peace and not interested in god or anything anyone has to share with me about god’s plan.

 

[Wild Bill]

I’m 38. My father died from Lewy Body Dementia in August and my 39-year-old wife was just diagnosed with ALS. I just watched my father’s mind slowly fail him and when I buried him, my reward was that I get to watch my wife’s body slowly fail her. The two most important people in my life will be gone before I’m 40.

I’m very much not at peace and not interested in god or anything anyone has to share with me about god’s plan.

That's more than anyone should have to endure. I have no interest in sharing God's plan with you or anything, but hope you find the strength to navigate through this darkness and find peace in your life.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I’m 38. My father died from Lewy Body Dementia in August and my 39-year-old wife was just diagnosed with ALS. I just watched my father’s mind slowly fail him and when I buried him, my reward was that I get to watch my wife’s body slowly fail her. The two most important people in my life will be gone before I’m 40.

I’m very much not at peace and not interested in god or anything anyone has to share with me about god’s plan.

I'm really sorry to hear of what you're dealing with. As Bill said, that's more than anyone should have to go through. Please lean on us here to vent or cry or get angry or whatever you need to do.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

I’m 38. My father died from Lewy Body Dementia in August and my 39-year-old wife was just diagnosed with ALS. I just watched my father’s mind slowly fail him and when I buried him, my reward was that I get to watch my wife’s body slowly fail her. The two most important people in my life will be gone before I’m 40.

I’m very much not at peace and not interested in god or anything anyone has to share with me about god’s plan.

I just watched my wife go through aggressive cancer and die this January(died 3 months after diagnosis). My mother law died of als a few years back and it is a horrible disease. I understand your pain your experiencing and I will not try to convince you of anything. But I would willing to talk to you.

 

[Ophiocordyceps]

Like all of us, I have experienced suffering in this life. I was raised a catholic, but have found Buddhism to be a helpful philosophy to navigate life. Meditation has been an amazing tool. I believe we are all trying to connect to some higher plane or God. Wishing everyone good luck on their journey.

 

[Blazers46]

I think people don’t understand God when they say “Gods plan”. We live in a free world with free will. In Christianity God is “all knowing” and “all powerful” but God limits himself to let us establish free will.

It was never suppose to be this way. The Lord is so sorry and sad for your heartbreak and loss. He can take what Satan has intended to hurt you and turn it for good. The Lord’s design was perfect for this world until sin entered. And as a result of sin, we have heartache. That is why He sent His Son Jesus. The Bible says it clear, In this world you will have trouble but take heart… I have overcome the world. He also tells us that The He is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. It’s easy to blame God when the hard of life hits us, and no one would blame you… but His truth speaks a better word if you let Him take your pain. God gave us this world. A culmination of free will has led to shitty food and a radioactive society with 6G and radioactive currents… EMF…. and all the things. Our phones, wireless headphones you might as well stick your head in a microwave. Those are things man created, the rise in some of these illnesses rise with technology/advancement.

My mother in law just passed with dementia and cancer. My father has dementia. My mom is a hoarder and lives in filth. My 3 year old niece was murdered. I’m very much at peace. Was this Gods plan? No. Could he have stopped it? Yup. It’s like asking why these mass shootings happen? We blame guns, mental health… blah blah blah. Society and free will is why. Imagine life where God halted our free will.

Edit - I’ll add the one major difference between Christians and nonbelievers is hope. I know where I’m going when I die and I know where my family is going. This life is a blip compared to what’s next. I can’t imagine living in a sad world where my thought is when I die I just become fertilizer eaten by worms and other insects.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

I’m 38. My father died from Lewy Body Dementia in August and my 39-year-old wife was just diagnosed with ALS. I just watched my father’s mind slowly fail him and when I buried him, my reward was that I get to watch my wife’s body slowly fail her. The two most important people in my life will be gone before I’m 40.

I’m very much not at peace and not interested in god or anything anyone has to share with me about god’s plan.

I am sorry for your suffering and losses, Col.

Love is such an amazing gift and hurting for you as I type this. I hope love continues to find you even as you go through this.

Wanted to share...and perhaps you have seen this passage before but I found if very comforting and reread it MANY times after I had a very big loss:

"Alright, here goes. I'm old. What that means is that I've survived (so far) and a lot of people I've known and loved did not. I've lost friends, best friends, acquaintances, co-workers, grandparents, mom, relatives, teachers, mentors, students, neighbors, and a host of other folks. I have no children, and I can't imagine the pain it must be to lose a child. But here's my two cents.

I wish I could say you get used to people dying. I never did. I don't want to. It tears a hole through me whenever somebody I love dies, no matter the circumstances. But I don't want it to "not matter". I don't want it to be something that just passes. My scars are a testament to the love and the relationship that I had for and with that person. And if the scar is deep, so was the love. So be it. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are a testament that I can love deeply and live deeply and be cut, or even gouged, and that I can heal and continue to live and continue to love. And the scar tissue is stronger than the original flesh ever was. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are only ugly to people who can't see.

As for grief, you'll find it comes in waves. When the ship is first wrecked, you're drowning, with wreckage all around you. Everything floating around you reminds you of the beauty and the magnificence of the ship that was, and is no more. And all you can do is float. You find some piece of the wreckage and you hang on for a while. Maybe it's some physical thing. Maybe it's a happy memory or a photograph. Maybe it's a person who is also floating. For a while, all you can do is float. Stay alive.

In the beginning, the waves are 100 feet tall and crash over you without mercy. They come 10 seconds apart and don't even give you time to catch your breath. All you can do is hang on and float. After a while, maybe weeks, maybe months, you'll find the waves are still 100 feet tall, but they come further apart. When they come, they still crash all over you and wipe you out. But in between, you can breathe, you can function. You never know what's going to trigger the grief. It might be a song, a picture, a street intersection, the smell of a cup of coffee. It can be just about anything...and the wave comes crashing. But in between waves, there is life.

Somewhere down the line, and it's different for everybody, you find that the waves are only 80 feet tall. Or 50 feet tall. And while they still come, they come further apart. You can see them coming. An anniversary, a birthday, or Christmas, or landing at O'Hare. You can see it coming, for the most part, and prepare yourself. And when it washes over you, you know that somehow you will, again, come out the other side. Soaking wet, sputtering, still hanging on to some tiny piece of the wreckage, but you'll come out.

Take it from an old guy. The waves never stop coming, and somehow you don't really want them to. But you learn that you'll survive them. And other waves will come. And you'll survive them too. If you're lucky, you'll have lots of scars from lots of loves. And lots of shipwrecks."

From Reddit

 

[Avila]

Can you expand on what you mean by this? The church is the body of believers. So are you saying the people are tools to help you and you not help them back?

Sure, we may be dealing in linguistics.

You may be treating the church as the "body of believers".
I separate them, but let me explain.

People are not tools, au contraire, and I apologize for the miscommunication.
In fact let me see you one and raise you two:

First, I find it fatuous to believe that someone follows Jesus and is meh on others.
Second, in the crescendo of John's final chapter, it's there in plain sight, in John 21, 15-17
Thrice to Peter (mirroring and washing clean Peter's triple denial) he says to feed lambs and sheep.

If you don't serve others, you are not a Jesus follower (for family members, if the husband feeds the wife and the wife feeds the husband and the two "feed" their children, spiritually, mentally as well as with food, that settles it. that's portion enoujgh

And I am a footwasher, literally twice in liturgies.

Anyone too haughty to wash feet is too haughty for Jesus.

So, insofar as your conflation of the church with the "body of believers" I am there for that.

Here is what I am not for.
Interpositiong by any organized religion, or gaggle of clerics and theologians, impeding the flow from the soul to Jesus.

1/168ism. that church attendance for 60 minutes makes you a follower of Jesus. It doesn't. Going to Church doesn't make you a follower of Jesus any more than going to a garage makes you a car.

And in the pederasty travaiL
Let's dissect the transaction.

A Pederasty event happens. Jesus was no prude, CF John 8 and then the woman at the well.
The Chancery gets wind of it.l

\What's the FIRST thing to do.
Minister to the victim, I mean get a SWAT team out to the victim and never sever from the victim until healing is complete.
Then go MINISTER to the perp, even if a priest. The gospels are rife with Jesus correcting Peter and giving him chance after chance.
But the perp has to repent and renounce to merit forgiveness and rehabilitation, even after dismissal. But don't desert him, minister to him too.

But what did MANY Catholic diocesan chanceries do?
FIRST, Call the Lawyer
Second Call your PR firm to mange the news and reporting.

that is of Satan, not of Jesus.
It is the difference between good and evil
between right and wrong.
Between Jesus and renunciation of Jesus.

Hope that clarifies.

One other thing. The Ten commandments are MEH because they are narcissistically focused

The beatitudes are interpersonally focused.
You can't :GET" and practice the Beatitudes and not follow Jesus.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I’m 38. My father died from Lewy Body Dementia in August and my 39-year-old wife was just diagnosed with ALS. I just watched my father’s mind slowly fail him and when I buried him, my reward was that I get to watch my wife’s body slowly fail her. The two most important people in my life will be gone before I’m 40.

I’m very much not at peace and not interested in god or anything anyone has to share with me about god’s plan.

Im sorry to hear this man. I truly am sorry for you. Im in your boat and have been for many years being a non-believer. I kind of know where you are at. To get through it I had tried to maximize as much time as I had with them and make their remaining time as full of life and happiness as possible. Then when it was over I grieved. Hard. I had to accept that none of this was in my control and all the power I had was to make their remaining time as valuable as possible. Acceptance will come with time and make things easier though you never get over it truly. Its absolutely not fair.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

Im sorry to hear this man. I truly am sorry for you. Im in your boat and have been for many years being a non-believer. I kind of know where you are at. To get through it I had tried to maximize as much time as I had with them and make their remaining time as full of life and happiness as possible. Then when it was over I grieved. Hard. I had to accept that none of this was in my control and all the power I had was to make their remaining time as valuable as possible. Acceptance will come with time and make things easier though you never get over it truly. Its absolutely not fair.

very solid comment

 

[Avila]

Like all of us, I have experienced suffering in this life. I was raised a catholic, but have found Buddhism to be a helpful philosophy to navigate life. Meditation has been an amazing tool. I believe we are all trying to connect to some higher plane or God. Wishing everyone good luck on their journey.

Well now, that is a whole 'nother kettle of crawfish.

My first language was Jesus, so that is where I am (was?) most fluent.

Before I get to Buddhism, let me address the symmetry of the Big Three
Hinduism
Jesusism (as in Jesus)

Islam as in Quran, not this Hadith/sunni/shia drivel.

Hinduism? The Gita. Set on a Battlefield, in which Krishna prevails on Arjuna to "embrace the strujggle" and not shrink from it.
Islam The notoriously misunderstood Jihad, the "greater jihad
And for Jesusist
Hmm take up your cross and come follow me, but the yoke is sweet and the burden light
or "In this world you WILL HAVE (emphasis added) tribulation

This Disneyland Hallmark awshucks Hail Mary Jerry Catholicism is not for me

But Kurukshetra?
Jihan?
Taking up the Cross

Year that is what life is.

If you don't get that, then you are nowhere. Adversity? Travail? NOthing but God/Buddha?Allah?Krishna/Ahura Mazda?
Rohrschach for us. It ain't about him, it is how we react.

Two other things, my Buddhist brother.

Have you ever compared or contrasted the conception of the Buddha with the Mary narrative?

Trust me it is cool.

And nobody ever went wrong meditating. Nobody. EVER

consider a quick gander at idries Shah.
And consider a look at "Cloud of the unknowing"
Medieval anonymous monk. But I would be interested to hear your reaction

One other thing.

If you see the Marley movie, Marley in terms of embrace, peacemaking and tolerance is closer to the message of Jesus than your average American evangelical. He may be close to Buddha mind, but I will leave that to you.

Ja

rastafarei!
. p ptt

 

[Avila]

Okay, this might seem to be a boring poll, but I guess I'm just most interested in seeing how many protestants there are in our fan-base---at least in the one represented on this site.

My cousins are presbyterians and are the biggest ND fans in the world.

I iove your survey, It would have been cooler if you had added an "All of the above" Well, you would have gotten one entry!

 

[ulukinatme]

I iove your survey, It would have been cooler if you had added an "All of the above" Well, you would have gotten one entry!

You're about 20 years too late. Oglaigh ain't gonna see this either, he's been MIA for over a decade it looks like.

 

[Avila]

You're about 20 years too late. Oglaigh ain't gonna see this either, he's been MIA for over a decade it looks like.

check your hole card. His name, from the Gaelic translates as "Defense Forces of Ireland" so it may be a nom de guerre. notwithstanding, the dialogue open ended. anyone who has ears to hear, let him hear.........................................

Irish wit, Gaelic, wit.

This is the "Go Irish" site, right?

 

[NDBoiler]

 

[ulukinatme]

Circa, is that you???

 

[NDBoiler]

Circa, is that you???

I was thinking Bogs

 

[ulukinatme]

I was thinking Bogs

That's a good chance given the translation.

 

[Blazers46]

Sure, we may be dealing in linguistics.

You may be treating the church as the "body of believers".
I separate them, but let me explain.

People are not tools, au contraire, and I apologize for the miscommunication.
In fact let me see you one and raise you two:

First, I find it fatuous to believe that someone follows Jesus and is meh on others.
Second, in the crescendo of John's final chapter, it's there in plain sight, in John 21, 15-17
Thrice to Peter (mirroring and washing clean Peter's triple denial) he says to feed lambs and sheep.

If you don't serve others, you are not a Jesus follower (for family members, if the husband feeds the wife and the wife feeds the husband and the two "feed" their children, spiritually, mentally as well as with food, that settles it. that's portion enoujgh

And I am a footwasher, literally twice in liturgies.

Anyone too haughty to wash feet is too haughty for Jesus.

So, insofar as your conflation of the church with the "body of believers" I am there for that.

Here is what I am not for.
Interpositiong by any organized religion, or gaggle of clerics and theologians, impeding the flow from the soul to Jesus.

1/168ism. that church attendance for 60 minutes makes you a follower of Jesus. It doesn't. Going to Church doesn't make you a follower of Jesus any more than going to a garage makes you a car.

And in the pederasty travaiL
Let's dissect the transaction.

A Pederasty event happens. Jesus was no prude, CF John 8 and then the woman at the well.
The Chancery gets wind of it.l

\What's the FIRST thing to do.
Minister to the victim, I mean get a SWAT team out to the victim and never sever from the victim until healing is complete.
Then go MINISTER to the perp, even if a priest. The gospels are rife with Jesus correcting Peter and giving him chance after chance.
But the perp has to repent and renounce to merit forgiveness and rehabilitation, even after dismissal. But don't desert him, minister to him too.

But what did MANY Catholic diocesan chanceries do?
FIRST, Call the Lawyer
Second Call your PR firm to mange the news and reporting.

that is of Satan, not of Jesus.
It is the difference between good and evil
between right and wrong.
Between Jesus and renunciation of Jesus.

Hope that clarifies.

One other thing. The Ten commandments are MEH because they are narcissistically focused

The beatitudes are interpersonally focused.
You can't :GET" and practice the Beatitudes and not follow Jesus.

I agree on organized religion, I have attended Assemblies of God and others. If any church has a corporate office it’s not a church, it’s a business.

Way too many people attend church or a particular church for selfish reasons. What can the body/corp do for me but forget they are called to invest at the very least your time to the body as well. In and out of the church.

The Ten Commandments and Beatitudes… I’m not sure what you mean. The beatitudes focus on internal attitudes v the 10 commandments are focused on external actions. The beatitudes stress what to be, the 10 Commandments worn what not to do. Then of course the fruits are what we share.

 

[Hautian Domer]

For those of you who partake in Lenten sacrifice, something I’ve never received a definitive answer on is when does the Lenten personal sacrifice end? Easter Day? Holy Saturday? Maundy Thursday?

 

[StPaul_Irish]

For those of you who partake in Lenten sacrifice, something I’ve never received a definitive answer on is when does the Lenten personal sacrifice end? Easter Day? Holy Saturday? Maundy Thursday?

I usually wait until after Easter Sunday to resume sinning.

 

[Blazers46]

I usually wait until after Easter Sunday to resume sinning.

Gods grace is sufficient either way.

Sin away brotha

 

[zelezo vlk]

For those of you who partake in Lenten sacrifice, something I’ve never received a definitive answer on is when does the Lenten personal sacrifice end? Easter Day? Holy Saturday? Maundy Thursday?

Lent ends with the Triduum on Maundy/Holy Thursday. HOWEVER the Triduum is supposed to be a time of more intense fasting. I know many in the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches will basically do nothing but water or some fruit juice or even a black fast until Easter.

But there’s nothing in canon law keeping you to your Lenten penances at any time.


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