Quarterback Controversy 2016

[gkIrish]

I do want an open competition as it keeps both(all three) players pushing each other to be better.

I agree though - it's Kizer's job to lose.

The issue is that, especially at QB, some players just aren't able to turn it on until game time. If you have a true competition, Zaire may "earn" the starting job. Well I'd rather go with the player I know will perform at a top 10 level regardless of who has a better camp. It's not like Zaire started a bunch of games before getting hurt. His playing time basically amounts to 3 full games.

You're probably right, Kizer is the starter, and I would agree. But what if there is something zaire brings that kizer doesn't.

aren't you always preaching you want the coaches to put the players that give us the best opportunity to win on the field?

Kizer is the clear favorite as he should be, but, what if zaire could get us those extra 2 wins that we didn't get this season?

Again all hypothetical but you cannot discount zaire's ability.

I don't think I ever said Zaire should not play at all. I didn't mean to say that. I think he could be used in certain packages in the redzone or something. What I don't want is an open competition or even the illusion of any open competition.

 

[irishfan]

Some of you guys want an open QB competition when we already have a guy that was arguably a top 10 QB this year despite not getting first team reps in camp or until after week 2 of the season. Oh yeah, and he has 3 years of eligibility left...

I don't care what happens in practice during August, Kizer is the starter.

I am guessing that Kizer is the starter as well.

But to play devil's advocate, Zaire is the guy who originally beat out that top-10 QB and he also happens to have 2 years of eligibility left. And he played quite well in his 3 career starts.

 

[ND NYC]

on nothing more than a simple gut instinct, I think Malik should be and will be the starter next year.

love Kizer, but something tells me Malik is going to win his job back in spring and fall camp.

 

[mick2]

The issue is that, especially at QB, some players just aren't able to turn it on until game time. If you have a true competition, Zaire may "earn" the starting job. Well I'd rather go with the player I know will perform at a top 10 level regardless of who has a better camp. It's not like Zaire started a bunch of games before getting hurt. His playing time basically amounts to 3 full games.



I don't think I ever said Zaire should not play at all. I didn't mean to say that. I think he could be used in certain packages in the redzone or something. What I don't want is an open competition or even the illusion of any open competition.

I hear ya, it would be nice to go through an offseason with a clear cut established guy, haven't had that since the quinn and clausen regime, but I guess this is something you can file under good problem to have.

I don't think kelly will say there is an open competition explicity, he may imply it. But i bet you zaire is looking at it as a competition to get his job back no matter what the situation is.

 

[kmoose]

You're probably right, Kizer is the starter, and I would agree. But what if there is something zaire brings that kizer doesn't.

aren't you always preaching you want the coaches to put the players that give us the best opportunity to win on the field?

Kizer is the clear favorite as he should be, but, what if zaire could get us those extra 2 wins that we didn't get this season?

Again all hypothetical but you cannot discount zaire's ability.

Just because Kizer is the starter doesn't mean Zaire can't contribute; perhaps even in a BIG way....

 

[mick2]

Just because Kizer is the starter doesn't mean Zaire can't contribute; perhaps even in a BIG way....

100% agreed, and hope to see it, love zaire, love kizer, love to win!!!

 

[NDohio]

The issue is that, especially at QB, some players just aren't able to turn it on until game time. If you have a true competition, Zaire may "earn" the starting job. Well I'd rather go with the player I know will perform at a top 10 level regardless of who has a better camp. It's not like Zaire started a bunch of games before getting hurt. His playing time basically amounts to 3 full games.



I don't think I ever said Zaire should not play at all. I didn't mean to say that. I think he could be used in certain packages in the redzone or something. What I don't want is an open competition or even the illusion of any open competition.

That's fair.

I do think the bold describes Zaire. It seemed EG kept MZ on the bench because he was a better practice player.

I know Kizer seemed to struggle in the spring, but I do think his personal life was probably a big part of that.

 

[Irish Insanity]

That was regarding the 2015 team, not the 2016 team.

I didn't take it that way watching the episode.

 

[Circa]

Open up the competition. We want the best offensive threat on the field and I can't decisively say that's Kizer. Can anyone?

Kizer's arm Is so much more powerful and accurate. Go back and watch the Virginia game and watch how calm, cool, collected Kizer was after MK went down. You just can't teach the It factor Kizer has! Mk may be a small bit better at run threat probability but Kizer's the whole package and will be playing on Sundays for a long time.

Read my lips... Kizer will be the starter.

 

[koonja]

One thing I love about Zaire is he has a little crazy about him. That's contagious and can really give our team an identity. I have no idea what's going to happen but I think it'll be Kizer.

Malik loves the game more than Kizer IMO and that's not a knock on Kizer. Never count out a guy like that.

 

[Booslum31]

I don't like the name of this thread. "QB Competition" sounds better. Controversy sounds caustic and competition is good. Just sayin'.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I don't like the name of this thread. "QB Competition" sounds better. Controversy sounds caustic and competition is good. Just sayin'.

Controversy sells more clicks than competition... simple Marketing 101 stuff...

 

[aubeirish]

I don't like the name of this thread. "QB Competition" sounds better. Controversy sounds caustic and competition is good. Just sayin'.

Completely agree. Having Tommy Rees as your starting quarterback is a controversy. Choosing between Zaire or Kizer(it will be Kizer) is a fantastic situation.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Kizer's arm Is so much more powerful and accurate. Go back and watch the Virginia game and watch how calm, cool, collected Kizer was after MK went down. You just can't teach the It factor Kizer has! Mk may be a small bit better at run threat probability but Kizer's the whole package and will be playing on Sundays for a long time.

Read my lips... Kizer will be the starter.

One thing I love about Zaire is he has a little crazy about him. That's contagious and can really give our team an identity. I have no idea what's going to happen but I think it'll be Kizer.

Malik loves the game more than Kizer IMO and that's not a knock on Kizer. Never count out a guy like that.

I think both guys have 'IT'. I think Kizer has more tho. Kizer is calm/cool/collected all the time. Zaire gets excited. Zaire seems more outgoing and emotional. Both can lead us where we want to go. When is the last time ND had 2 QBs this good at the same time?

 

[ThePiombino]

Kizer has ice water running through his veins. Not saying Zaire doesn't, but Kizer definitely does lol

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm all in on Wimbush.

MZ = crazy good runner, good arm, infectious confidence, vocal leader

DK = decent runner, little bit better arm, ice in his veins

Can't go wrong either way. Embarrassment of riches to have these two competing. And to have Wimbush coming behind...

I'm not sure we can say MZ is or isn't XXXX. He looked good early, and he did lead us to a bowl victory of an SEC team last year. That said, if DK can lead us to a victory over O$U, well than whoa..

 

[ND NYC]

without "a Fuller" in next years offense I think MZ is the way to go...I worry DK wont be as good without Fuller as DK throws a hell of a deep ball, but the rest of the throws im still not sold, think MZ was doing much better on the out routes/slants/timing routes and overall accuracy.

cant believe you guys think/feel/say DK has a "more powerful arm" than malik.

I remember MZ throwing lazers on a rope in his (limited) action. reminded me a little of vick at va tech back in the day the way malik just flicked the ball--and it zipped out of his hands with nice velocity and accuracy.

anyone else feel this way?

 

[Irish YJ]

without "a Fuller" in next years offense I think MZ is the way to go...I worry DK wont be as good without Fuller as DK throws a hell of a deep ball, but the rest of the throws im still not sold, think MZ was doing much better on the out routes/slants/timing routes and overall accuracy.

cant believe you guys think/feel/say DK has a "more powerful arm" than malik.

I remember MZ throwing lazers on a rope in his (limited) action. reminded me a little of vick at va tech back in the day the way malik just flicked the ball--and it zipped out of his hands with nice velocity and accuracy.

anyone else feel this way?

I do feel similar. I don't think we can arbitrarily forget how good MZ looked.
Regarding Fuller.... we've got other speedy guys that can take the top off of Ds. Perhaps we take a little step back in that department, but we have an embarrassment of riches at WR and TE.. If a QB can't find one of receivers next year, well he's either not that good, or the play calling sucks.

 

[GoIrish41]

I think both guys have 'IT'. I think Kizer has more tho. Kizer is calm/cool/collected all the time. Zaire gets excited. Zaire seems more outgoing and emotional. Both can lead us where we want to go. When is the last time ND had 2 QBs this good at the same time?

Three maybe. Wimbush looked incredible in his brief appearance against UMASS. I know he shit the bed later in the season, but I think he is a super hype kind of player. They get his emotions under control a bit and he could wind up being the best of the bunch. He isn't going to beat those other 2 out next year, but when he gets his turn he may dazzle!

 

[koonja]

Three maybe. Wimbush looked incredible in his brief appearance against UMASS. I know he shit the bed later in the season, but I think he is a super hype kind of player. They get his emotions under control a bit and he could wind up being the best of the bunch. He isn't going to beat those other 2 out next year, but when he gets his turn he may dazzle!

I'm in love with him after the 2 'I'm calling a run pass option' plays. I love me a good wildcard.

 

[woolybug25]

I honestly don't know how BK is going to play it. On one hand, he did make a promise to Malik's mom on national television. On the other, Kizer is now more seasoned, experienced and frankly... poised. Any assumption at this point, would be just that, an assumption. So I will watch how the spring goes before even trying to make heads or tails of the situation.

The one thing I do know, is that I hope whoever ends up on the wrong side of the starting role, keeps doing what they are doing and stay. When in BK's entire career did the starting QB not have to be spelled by his backup? I honestly don't know going back to his GVSU days, but I know it was a theme at Cinci and certainly here at Notre Dame. Whoever has to sit next season will be better served to simply wait for their opportunity to make their case. Because they will certainly get that opportunity. Also, look at those that chose to leave. All of them would have gotten another opportunity to take their spot back and none of them went to a better team.

 

[koonja]

I honestly don't know how BK is going to play it. On one hand, he did make a promise to Malik's mom on national television. On the other, Kizer is now more seasoned, experienced and frankly... poised. Any assumption at this point, would be just that, an assumption. So I will watch how the spring goes before even trying to make heads or tails of the situation.

The one thing I do know, is that I hope whoever ends up on the wrong side of the starting role, keeps doing what they are doing and stay. When in BK's entire career did the starting QB not have to be spelled by his backup? I honestly don't know going back to his GVSU days, but I know it was a theme at Cinci and certainly here at Notre Dame. Whoever has to sit next season will be better served to simply wait for their opportunity to make their case. Because they will certainly get that opportunity. Also, look at those that chose to leave. All of them would have gotten another opportunity to take their spot back and none of them went to a better team.

All true and the bold is likely, but we have no idea how poised Malik is. My guess is extremely, all he's done is win.

 

[NDWorld247]

I don't like the name of this thread. "QB Competition" sounds better. Controversy sounds caustic and competition is good. Just sayin'.

This. Please change the name of the thread. Seeing the word "controversy" elicits negative vibes and there's nothing negative about an offseason QB competition. It's going to push both players (and BW) to be better.

A few other thoughts...

1. There will be a QB competition and rightfully so. No player on the team should be handed a starting position before spring practice.

2. The QB competition will last until late into Fall camp. Get use to it.

3. If it were up to the players (it's obviously not), I wonder who would get their vote? My guess is Zaire. That was HIS locker room before the injury. Kizer has gained the trust of his teammates but, IMO, it's still Zaire's team in terms of locker room support.

4. My bold prediction for 2016, BK and MS are going to successfully employ a two-QB system. That's what I'm hoping for at least.

 

[IrishHokie22]

Kizer absolutely should be the starter next season. I don't even think it's a debate, to be honest. He has three years of eligibility left and just had one of the best seasons at QB in ND history... as a redshirt freshman.

This should be a no-brainer. I like Zaire, and it sucks to see him get Wally Pipped, but it is what it is.

 

[woolybug25]

All true and the bold is likely, but we have no idea how poised Malik is. My guess is extremely, all he's done is win.

He's played in three games and left the third behind on the scoreboard. Let's cool the jets on the "all he does is win win win" talk. lol

 

[EvilleIrish]

One thing I love about Zaire is he has a little crazy about him. That's contagious and can really give our team an identity. I have no idea what's going to happen but I think it'll be Kizer.

Malik loves the game more than Kizer IMO and that's not a knock on Kizer. Never count out a guy like that.

There's simply no way of knowing that.

 

[koonja]

There's simply no way of knowing that.

No way of knowing what? That Malik loves the game more? I said 'IMO', and I don't think it's a stretch. Malik is obsessed with it. Kizer was thinking about switching to baseball 6 months ago. I don't think Kizer is checked out by any means but I don't think he's on Malik's level.

 

[ThePiombino]

It honestly blows my mind that Kizer had statistically the best start to an ND career as a Quarterback and yet people still don't think he is going to be the starter next year.

Do you think you can quote someone else so it doesn't look like I'm the idiot who thinks Kizer comes back as anything but a starter next season? kthxbye

 

[irishfan]

He's played in three games and left the third behind on the scoreboard. Let's cool the jets on the "all he does is win win win" talk. lol

It wasn't the prettiest game, but ND was up 19-14 when Zaire got hurt. They also had 2nd and 7 on the UVA 24 upcoming after his ankle injury, so they were in position to go up by two scores when Zaire left the game.

(general comment--not at you Wooly) Again, I posted this earlier, but based on what we saw from Zaire early in the season, there is no reason to think that he 100% could or couldn't have finished the season 8-2 like Kizer did. I know how close we were to knocking off Clemson and Stanford, but, those games aside, I don't exactly think a Zaire-led team would have struggled too much against the rest of the schedule. Kizer led us to wins over 3-9 Georgia Tech, 3-9 UMASS, 9-2 Navy, 8-5 USC, 10-3 Temple, 8-4 Pitt, 3-9 Wake, and 3-9 BC. The schedule didn't turn out to be murderer's row....I don't care if they had their best seasons in decades, it is not impressive when Navy and Temple are 2 of your best wins (hence why OU would have beaten us out for the #4 spot even if we finished 11-1).

I'm not trying to bash Kizer at all. I would guess that he will be starting week 1 next year. He did better than anyone could have possibly expected, and he kept us in the game against Clemson/Stanford when other members of the team did not play well. He played very close to flawless against a good Stanford defense. We could have easily gone 12-0 with Kizer at QB. I just don't think there was enough there where the QB spot is locked up. He is one year behind Zaire in eligibility, so I don't get the people talking about how he should be starting because he has 3 years left. Zaire beat him out for a reason. Zaire has gone nearly 3 games playing turnover-free. Zaire played a better game against Texas than I can remember Kizer playing all season....and that was in his 2nd career start. Not sure why anyone would be writing him off.

 

[BobbyMac]

Do you think you can quote someone else so it doesn't look like I'm the idiot who thinks Kizer comes back as anything but a starter next season? kthxbye

Don't worry, I'm the "idiot" who's being quoted as you know, thanks for the reminder.

Anyways, There should be an open competition at QB just like there should be for every other position. It's DI athletics, everyday is an open competition for clock.

DK had a fantastic year. He stepped up when called upon and delivered big. He was two plays away from being undefeated. That's impressive stuff. I won't be shocked if he wins the starting position or gets more snaps next year in some 2 pronged attack.

As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, MZ installed the swagger that this team had been missing under Golson. This team never appeared to me to have a surplus of alpha male leaders. Showtime only reinforced that feeling. I've been around a lot of locker rooms in my day as a player, coach and other. Malik has it. I think it's pretty much an accepted fact. Malik never thought about leaving or pursuing another sport. He knew that job was going to be his eventually, that can't be said about DK. I was disappointed when that confession came from him.

I've had the additional benefit of getting a glimpse behind the curtain during his career and all I'll say is I'll be surprised if he doesn't earn the starting position in '16.

Either way, I hope CBK and Sanford optimize what they have because it's the best situation in college football.