QB situation

[stlnd01]

Book will always roll the average to below average teams. The Navy's, the BCs, BGs, and NCs will not present a challenge and ND will roll. Say what you want but ND could have every easily lost that USC game. GA isnt the worldbeater everyone thought they would be.

What you have this year is what you will have AT BEST next year with Book at the helm.

Sure. But it's not like we've got Trevor Lawrence standing their holding a clipboard. If Phil's better, he'll beat Book out next year. Until then, I guess I'll take a guy who I'm confident will roll Navy and BC, beat Southern Cal and give us a chance on the road at Georgia.
The best version of Book doesn't sound so terrible?

 

[ickythump1225]

I don't think that what Book is doing is just because we're playing average or bad teams. He was still bailing out and not making his reads against bad teams, he was still missing deep balls, we just never had to pay for it because we were playing bad teams.

I actually think Book has progressed and stepped up his level of play big time. My issue is I'm not sure if I trust it to last. I need more than 2 games to be convinced he's truly turned a corner.

As of now I still want PJ to be the man next year.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Sure. But it's not like we've got Trevor Lawrence standing their holding a clipboard. If Phil's better, he'll beat Book out next year. Until then, I guess I'll take a guy who I'm confident will roll Navy and BC, beat Southern Cal and give us a chance on the road at Georgia.
The best version of Book doesn't sound so terrible?

Well typically a 5th year anything is better than a 2nd or 3rd year something. Especially if the 2nd and 3rd year something has as few reps as PJ has had this year. Not a fair comparison.

ND behind PJ is going out on a limb...period. It is a hope for a better tomorrow. Sure. Book will be better day 1. No doubt. But do you stick with what you have knowing it will only take you so far or reach for better?

And whipping Navy with their 1-2 star players isnt exactly a great accomplishment in the football world.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM. Ian Book (along with Clark Lea) is by far this year's MVP.

If we go 10-2, we are right around top ten rankings (8-12) and what the most optimistic of us felt this season could give (as we knew what the RB and WR and LB situations would likely be.) That's a really good season with such issues as we've had.

Let the counter rant begin ............

 

[Irishize]

Can't both be true?

Book does have a ceiling. He has never been particularly much of a deep ball guy and seems to struggle to hit smaller receivers on the outside (Finke works mostly in the middle of the field). He just doesn't have a cannon for an arm. He's not Trevor Lawrence and never will be.

But his ceiling is clearly higher than the Michigan game, or much of what he showed the first half of the season. And if he cleans up his act in the pocket, as he has the last couple of games, he can be quite effective. He also can run, and he doesn't throw dumb picks. Couple that with a good defense and a more effective running game and, well, we went 12-0 last year...

I don't know. I want to see what PJ can do with full command of the offense. But if Book plays the rest of the season like he has the last couple of weeks I'm not going to argue against starting him next year.

I can think of two passes off the top of my head in the Navy game where he did hit smaller receivers on the outside. One was to Finke moving right where Book finally “threw him open” and hit him just before the sideline. The second was the laser he threw to Keys (also a diminutive WR) on 3rd & 7 across his body to the sideline.

Jake Fromm will never be Trevor Lawrence either but he still has his team in the running for a CFP spot. He also has a serviceable running game. NDs OL struggles to run block. Factor in the lack of a difference making RB & it’s a one-dimensional offense that probably needs to be pass first to open up runs.

 

[dad4aa]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM. Ian Book (along with Clark Lea) is by far this year's MVP.

If we go 10-2, we are right around top ten rankings (8-12) and what the most optimistic of us felt this season could give (as we knew what the RB and WR and LB situations would likely be.) That's a really good season with such issues as we've had.

Let the counter rant begin ............

Great post OMM. People can say all they want that Georgia is not as good as expected yet they are currently in the CFP and will remain there is they can beat LSU in the CC. We were one final score away from beating them IN THEIR HOUSE. The only blemish on this team is we had a huge brain fart at scUM and it sucks bc it was them. If we win out and are fortunate enough to get a NY6 bowl and win that I will consider this a great season.

 

[IrishLax]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM. Ian Book (along with Clark Lea) is by far this year's MVP.

If we go 10-2, we are right around top ten rankings (8-12) and what the most optimistic of us felt this season could give (as we knew what the RB and WR and LB situations would likely be.) That's a really good season with such issues as we've had.

Let the counter rant begin ............

I won’t counter rant, I’ll just say that it’s extremely asinine to think that ND would win zero meaningful games against a relatively soft schedule with a backup QB. That premise has basically been proven false by a full decade of Notre Dame football.

 

[Luckylucci]

We were winning in spite of Book’s play to start the season, not the other way around. UVA is a good example with our D and run game dominating as he struggled mightily.

 

[ulukinatme]

I won’t counter rant, I’ll just say that it’s extremely asinine to think that ND would win zero meaningful games against a relatively soft schedule with a backup QB. That premise has basically been proven false by a full decade of Notre Dame football.

I think the thing is we really don't know one way or the other. PJ hasn't been able to best Book in practice based on the fact Book is still the starter. There was so much clamoring to bench Book after Michigan, but what if PJ really isn't ready still? What if it's a scenario like Rees and Hendrix? Everyone was ready to bench Tommy until he got injured, and as it turned out Rees was really the best we had and Hendrix struggled greatly. If Tommy doesn't play half of that USC game in 2013 we lose, because Hendrix was unable to pickup one first down. Of course there's been a few scenarios where the coaching staff has been wrong, like when Crist was started instead of Rees in 2011, but generally I think they have the right guy in place at the right time.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I think the thing is we really don't know one way or the other. PJ hasn't been able to best Book in practice based on the fact Book is still the starter. There was so much clamoring to bench Book after Michigan, but what if PJ really isn't ready still? What if it's a scenario like Rees and Hendrix? Everyone was ready to bench Tommy until he got injured, and as it turned out Rees was really the best we had and Hendrix struggled greatly. If Tommy doesn't play half of that USC game in 2013 we lose, because Hendrix was unable to pickup one first down. Of course there's been a few scenarios where the coaching staff has been wrong, like when Crist was started instead of Rees in 2011, but generally I think they have the right guy in place at the right time.

Well getting Hendrix a legitimate number of game reps before then probably would have helped. He may not have been good enough to push Tommy for the job but his problem against USC was more than that. PJ has had a couple of those moments himself (Michigan).

I am sure PJ’s decision not to EE has affected his comfort level within the offense but you can also see he does some things well.

 

[deise mike]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM. Ian Book (along with Clark Lea) is by far this year's MVP.

If we go 10-2, we are right around top ten rankings (8-12) and what the most optimistic of us felt this season could give (as we knew what the RB and WR and LB situations would likely be.) That's a really good season with such issues as we've had.

Let the counter rant begin ............

I was trying to find the season preview thread to see what everybody predicted. Failed. Could someone put it up. My recollection is that almost nobody predicted better than 10-2. The only irritating thing is that it was scUM.

 

[BobbyMac]

Well getting Hendrix a legitimate number of game reps before then probably would have helped. He may not have been good enough to push Tommy for the job but his problem against USC was more than that. PJ has had a couple of those moments himself (Michigan).

I am sure PJ’s decision not to EE has affected his comfort level within the offense but you can also see he does some things well.

I HATE it when ND signees stick around and play basketball their Sr. year when they should be EE'd in South Bend.

Signed,

A basketball player

 

[KPENN]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM. Ian Book (along with Clark Lea) is by far this year's MVP.

If we go 10-2, we are right around top ten rankings (8-12) and what the most optimistic of us felt this season could give (as we knew what the RB and WR and LB situations would likely be.) That's a really good season with such issues as we've had.

Let the counter rant begin ............

Wut

 

[IrishLax]

I think the thing is we really don't know one way or the other. PJ hasn't been able to best Book in practice based on the fact Book is still the starter. There was so much clamoring to bench Book after Michigan, but what if PJ really isn't ready still? What if it's a scenario like Rees and Hendrix? Everyone was ready to bench Tommy until he got injured, and as it turned out Rees was really the best we had and Hendrix struggled greatly. If Tommy doesn't play half of that USC game in 2013 we lose, because Hendrix was unable to pickup one first down. Of course there's been a few scenarios where the coaching staff has been wrong, like when Crist was started instead of Rees in 2011, but generally I think they have the right guy in place at the right time.

You think with Clark or Jurkovec there is/was a realistic chance that ND would go 2-10? The worst season in ND history?

ND has won a lot of games in the past with bad QBs. And with less overall team talent than this one. I don’t care if Book was Michael Vick no single player is the difference between 2-10 and 10-2. It’s just an incredibly myopic veiewpoint and backed up by zero facts.

 

[Irish#1]

I think the thing is we really don't know one way or the other. PJ hasn't been able to best Book in practice based on the fact Book is still the starter. There was so much clamoring to bench Book after Michigan, but what if PJ really isn't ready still? What if it's a scenario like Rees and Hendrix? Everyone was ready to bench Tommy until he got injured, and as it turned out Rees was really the best we had and Hendrix struggled greatly. If Tommy doesn't play half of that USC game in 2013 we lose, because Hendrix was unable to pickup one first down. Of course there's been a few scenarios where the coaching staff has been wrong, like when Crist was started instead of Rees in 2011, but generally I think they have the right guy in place at the right time.

C'mon man. The coaching staff may not think he's ready, but we do and who are the real experts?

 

[Irish#1]

Book will always roll the average to below average teams. The Navy's, the BCs, BGs, and NCs will not present a challenge and ND will roll. Say what you want but ND could have every easily lost that USC game. GA isnt the worldbeater everyone thought they would be.

What you have this year is what you will have AT BEST next year with Book at the helm.

You're in the minority. They look pretty good to me, the pollsters and playoff committee.

Well typically a 5th year anything is better than a 2nd or 3rd year something. Especially if the 2nd and 3rd year something has as few reps as PJ has had this year. Not a fair comparison.

ND behind PJ is going out on a limb...period. It is a hope for a better tomorrow. Sure. Book will be better day 1. No doubt. But do you stick with what you have knowing it will only take you so far or reach for better?

And whipping Navy with their 1-2 star players isnt exactly a great accomplishment in the football world.

He did exactly what he should have against Navy. I could see your concern if he had struggled, but he didn't.

 

[stlnd01]

I can think of two passes off the top of my head in the Navy game where he did hit smaller receivers on the outside. One was to Finke moving right where Book finally “threw him open” and hit him just before the sideline. The second was the laser he threw to Keys (also a diminutive WR) on 3rd & 7 across his body to the sideline.

Jake Fromm will never be Trevor Lawrence either but he still has his team in the running for a CFP spot. He also has a serviceable running game. NDs OL struggles to run block. Factor in the lack of a difference making RB & it’s a one-dimensional offense that probably needs to be pass first to open up runs.

Yep. Finally. That’s a relatively new development for him. But if Book can make those throws consistently he can be Jake Fromm and unless/until Phil proved himself to actually be better (not just potentially), that’s fine by me.

 

[ulukinatme]

You think with Clark or Jurkovec there is/was a realistic chance that ND would go 2-10? The worst season in ND history?

ND has won a lot of games in the past with bad QBs. And with less overall team talent than this one. I don’t care if Book was Michael Vick no single player is the difference between 2-10 and 10-2. It’s just an incredibly myopic veiewpoint and backed up by zero facts.

Maybe not 2-10 vs. 10-2, but a backup can definitely cost you a lot of games. I think OMM might have exaggerated a bit saying we'd only win two, but it could be pretty bad since we don't really know what we have behind him. Say Book gets a major injury in the first series at Louisiville, PJ comes in and he turns out to not be ready or just can't execute like how Hendrix struggled. You could very easily be looking at losses at Louisville, USC, VT, and Virginia at the very least. We probably still beat Navy, Duke, BGSU, and New Mexico, but 4-6 looks pretty awful and is the kind of season that can get your coach canned even if it turned out to be a personnel issue that you can't always control.

If there's any position that CAN turn a great season into an awful one, it's QB. Just a few picks can cost you a game, couple that with a QB that doesn't grasp the offense and it can lead to more 3 and outs and a defense that is gasping for air by halftime. It's a recipe for disaster. In such a scenario even the Navy game isn't guaranteed when you consider passing largely helped us create that lead. Do I seriously think PJ couldn't step in and beat Navy? No, but there's so many unknowns right now with him that he's a bit of a mystery that's hard to predict. The playcalling is so conservative when he does get reps, there's not enough data to tell us where he's at as a player. All we know for sure is he hasn't beaten Book out in practice, so we have to guess he hasn't reached his potential yet.

 

[ickythump1225]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM. Ian Book (along with Clark Lea) is by far this year's MVP.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

What's going on at Notre Dame that highly ranked QB's come in and sit for years, because they're "not ready", whatever the f that means. If Phil truly isn't outplaying Book at this point, and couldn't produce a better product than what Book was putting out there those few games down the stretch, then he's never gonna be the dude we thought he was, unfortunately. It makes me mad, what happens when Pyne, and eventually Buchner, get here? What in the last 10 years has lead anyone to believe that a decent-to-highly ranked quarterback prospect is gonna come in and 1) Pick up the system in time to make a difference, if ever 2) Play well for a season, season and a half, without regressing or going into neutral in terms of development? One thing he's shown that he can do (BK) is develop and get the most out of 2-3* guys, but I wanna see a Top100 QB (Phil, Pyne, Buchner) come in and play to his capabilities. ND/BK pulls that off, we can win a NC, with the talent that's coming to South Bend.

 

[T-Boone]

After the game day comments about PJs throws I was surprised to watch the replay and be reasonably impressed. 3 of those medium type distance throws people are worried about, each one accurate. When he is allowed to throw long and run it himself I think he will do well.

 

[ThePiombino]

Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM.

BAAAHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Have we established OMM's relation to Book yet?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[koonja]

Wow guys. Coming from me.

 

[Irish#1]

In today’s presser, Kelly said they had a different way of calling plays in game’s versus how they did it in practice with A lot more scripted plays in the game. They decided to use the same routine as they do in practice.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

In today’s presser, Kelly said they had a different way of calling plays in game’s versus how they did it in practice with A lot more scripted plays in the game. They decided to use the same routine as they do in practice.

That does sound like Long is losing some autonomy.

 

[ThePiombino]

That does sound like Long is losing some autonomy.

Good. It's working.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[condoms SUCk]

If Book comes back, which looks all but certain, then PJ needs a lot more PT than what he’s getting now. I’m talking about action in every game at some point, not just mop up duty. We all know BK has managed a two QB system before so this isn’t a foreign concept to him. I get that BK/Long/ Tommy know more than we do as to where PJ’s current grasp of the offense, and it does make sense that Book has a better grasp this year. Now, with all that said, if PJ is not given more PT next season then he should transfer,. B/c that’s telling me that he’ll never get a fair shot while he’s here at ND.

 

[IrishLax]

Maybe not 2-10 vs. 10-2, but a backup can definitely cost you a lot of games. I think OMM might have exaggerated a bit saying we'd only win two, but it could be pretty bad since we don't really know what we have behind him.

OK well those are two completely different things. Saying "I think we would've dropped a couple more games without Book" is reasonable.

What he said was "Without Ian Book we win almost no games this year except BG and NM." That's one of the most categorically silly things anyone has ever said on this site, and it's completely indefensible.

 

[JD Irish]

If Book comes back, which looks all but certain, then PJ needs a lot more PT than what he’s getting now. I’m talking about action in every game at some point, not just mop up duty. We all know BK has managed a two QB system before so this isn’t a foreign concept to him. I get that BK/Long/ Tommy know more than we do as to where PJ’s current grasp of the offense, and it does make sense that Book has a better grasp this year. Now, with all that said, if PJ is not given more PT next season then he should transfer,. B/c that’s telling me that he’ll never get a fair shot while he’s here at ND.

I strongly disagree. Definitely have a competition and let the best man win. But once you choose, you need to commit and give the winner a chance to succeed. At some point you have to put your cards on the table and finally go for it. Is ND capable of winning a national championship? 2020 has to be the year they go all in. A two QB system isn't going to do that. All five starting OL returning along with the top backup OL, a great group of TEs all returning headlined by a potential All-American and top NFL pick, a high quality and experienced interior DL all returning, good experience at LB including a Rover who is just tapping into his potential, and a generational ND safety. There are obviously questions - the DBs outside of Hamilton, replacing Claypool and Kareem, whether any of our RBs will perform - plus a schedule that has a home game against Clemson, the neutral site game with Wisconsin, and ending the year at USC. But, you don't want to be playing for 2021 in 2020 by being cute with the QB situation. Even though the 20201 schedule looks easier, losing the OL and DL that we will be after 2020 makes 2020 the year.

That said, I absolutely agree that in blowout wins - thankfully which are becoming more commonplace - the backup QB needs to be allowed to play within the full offense and get more experience.

 

[irishtrain]

Regarding this criticism of Book for all the qb whisperers out there sometimes its necessary to throw off your back foot sometimes - you cant step into a throw with a guy in your face. He's not John Elway but he throws a much better ball than Jurkovich-its not even close. My goodness he's starting to excel- jump on the bandwagon don't show us your qb camp rhetoric. If he had a running game he'd be a Heisman candidate.