Post Game Thoughts - Michigan State

[koonja]

I've always been OK with Dantonio becoming the ND coach, but it's not like I was crazy about him. But intrigued with the great defenses, and the doing so much with so little. And the fact he competes well in big games.

But F that. I've changed my mind after this last weekend. I had thoughts of him being a dirty coach, and those were confirmed with all of the cheap shots (not even 50% of them were called) that his teams takes. That's not a coincidence - he's not doing anything to play clean.

He's the coach that's secretly happy when opponents have devastating injuries.

 

[RDU Irish]

I thought the offense played quite well. We had 8 "real" drives in the game (we sat on the ball at the end of the half and just ran it out the last possession of the game), In those 8 drives, we scored 4 TDs and 1 FG, and punted 3 times (31 points on 8 drives is good). Even on the drives we punted, we ran 6, 6, and 7 plays. So no 3 and outs. Averaged 4.6 ypc and 8.6 ypp which were both pretty good. Still room to improve for sure, but happy with the results.

Great stuff here. I can't whine about turnovers giving such great field position b/c one was a pick 6 and another touchback that required an 80 yard drive to capitalize. Only one short drive to speak of. Also of note - they had 9 penalties for 97 yards. That shortens the field quite a bit for us.

First drive - zero 3rd downs
Second Drive - 3rd & 5 - 12yd pass, 3rd & 7 - 5 yard sack loss - Punt
Third Drive - 3rd & 1 - QB sneak 1yrd, 3rd & 6 false start to &11 - incomplete pass - Punt
Fourth Drive - 3rd & 5 - 7yd pass, 3rd & 6 - 8yrd TD - DEX!
Fifth Drive - 3rd & 10 - 21 yard pass
Sixth Drive - ran out clock to end the half
Seventh Drive - 3rd & 1 - Dex stuffed -1 yard but offsides moves chains, 3rd & 2 - 5yd run
Eighth Drive - 3rd & 10 - 3yd run
Ninth Drive - 3rd & 8 - 15yd pass, 3rd & 7 - 32yd run, 3rd & 7 - 4yd loss leading to 46yd FG
Tenth Drive - 3rd & 7 - 4yd run - final drive

So 8-14 on third down is good - especially when only three of them were 3rd and short. My gut just wasn't getting the warm and fuzzies others had here. We converted well but were working from behind a lot - and I don't credit our offense for the defense making dumb penalties to move the chains and shorten the field. Great to see some competent passing though, lots to build on and excited to see how this offense evolves over the rest of the season.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I thought that the officials were sort-of "OK" but definitely not biased TOWARDS ND. One example unspoken here: Martini's facemask penalty was no such thing. His hand passes over the runner's face, yes, but his hand does not catch on anything and the runner's helmet does not move in the slightest. That can be forgiven as a bad call maybe, but at least it shows that it is not true that all the calls went ND's way.

I'm becoming a Martini apologist on IE, but i thought that he played another very fine game. The Morgan/ Martini/ Coney rotation seems working just fine, and State barely moved the ball threateningly when it was his turn.

Hainsey seems improving, but it was he in the first half who got beat on speed rush, not Tommy. I believe that that RT rotation must be because Harry sees huge potential in Hainsey for (ultimately) All-American quickness in footwork, which (maybe) Tommy can't have. If this works out and doesn't hurt us this season, it's double nice as it gives us one more returning OLine starter to add to Tommy and Mustipher next year.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Brush he literally isn't being thrown at because he has his WR on lockdown. They never, ever try him unless it's a slant or some other short timing play because his guy is never open.

Sleeping walking on Watkins island.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Did this game seem familiar? Two evenly matched teams. One team played with an identity and other team trying to figure it out. One team trying to protect and manage, and the other showcasing a highly touted passing QB. One defense playing fast but under control and the other reckless and without discipline. One team is opportunistic and patient and the other taking unnecessary risk. We have routinely been that other team under BKelly.

This was the best coached game under his watch. We were fundamentally sound in all facets. This blowout was refreshing because we are not that much physically better than MSU. We were better prepared. We didn’t take unnecessary risks. We had a game plan that cautiously showcased Wimbush’s potential. When you play balanced like we did, you often get the breaks. Crawford forced fumble and fortunate recovery was the key play of the game.

Defensively, we are overachieving. Our front seven isn’t the biggest and they will yield some yards. Yet, those yards have to be earned by the opposing back. Secondary is playing just as well. Credit must go Elko. Through scheme and teaching, he has players, who were disregarded by the previous DC, contribute. This defense exemplifies the old saying the whole is greater than its parts.

Offensively, I worry. Wimbush is such a threat running the ball that he is making defenses play honest in the running game. They cannot be overly aggressive, or Wimbush can burn them on the backside. My worry is that he is taking a beating. For his health, I hope he continues to improve in the passing game and we get more backs involved in the running game.

 

[Wingman Ray]

I also wonder if that pick 6 didnt change things pretty quick. Granted, MSU scored their next possession to make it 14-7 but going up by 2 scores had to really charge up the mentality of the team. Had MSU came right back after giving up that first score and drove the field for a TD, it may have had a different effect on the team.

MSU made quite a few bonehead mistakes that really made a difference. QB fumbling when getting single tackled and the RB fumbling heading into the endzone. That probably wouldnt play itself out if you did it 99 more times like that.

Im not sold on Miami by any stretch. USC will be tough just due then having such great athletes and Stanford just always plays ND with a pretty nasty chip on their shoulder. I think Stanford looks forward to that ND game a lot more than ND does with Stanford. Stanford likes being the top "academic" school so they can point to erasing the excuse ND has for years of being too academic challenging to compete while ND still circles USC as their target.

Not ready to say ND is a player in the game yet but definitely better than a L. Guess we will see over the next two weeks before USC whether ND decisively wins or just squeaks out wins vs vastly inferior opponents.

 

[Luckylucci]

Is this real life? This makes me way happier than it should.

Yes, yes it is. And yes, yes it makes me happier than it should also.

 

[Luckylucci]

I've always been OK with Dantonio becoming the ND coach, but it's not like I was crazy about him. But intrigued with the great defenses, and the doing so much with so little. And the fact he competes well in big games.

But F that. I've changed my mind after this last weekend. I had thoughts of him being a dirty coach, and those were confirmed with all of the cheap shots (not even 50% of them were called) that his teams takes. That's not a coincidence - he's not doing anything to play clean.

He's the coach that's secretly happy when opponents have devastating injuries.

I lost some respect for him and the MSU program after Saturday's game. Those were pathetic cheap shots. A downed QB laying on the ground and the MSU player nose diving Wimbush set me off. He should've been taken out of the game.

 

[notredomer23]

I actually called him out and want him to step up. Love, Watkins, and Jalen Elliot are playing with a noticeably higher level of aggression and urgency. Watkins is playing fine, but he looks like he's sleepwalking out there compared to the others. Get hype or let Troy Pride/Dante Vaughn have a shot.

Watkins has been so damn good. Would you say this about Josh Norman who literally had to do 0 last night because the Raiders didn't throw to his man once the whole game?

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Still don’t understand Michigan State captain Chris Frey here or why this wasn’t reviewed. No need for this in the game. <a href="https://t.co/LRkpkMvZbf">pic.twitter.com/LRkpkMvZbf</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/912291399126716416">September 25, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

Exactly right. Nice to see the cohesiveness of the coaching staff translate into productivity to the team. Would have been nice to see that philosophy in the Texas game last year, since all they did was pick us apart with those quick short passes.

The more I watch Elko's defense this year, the more I loathe BVG, lol. I feel supremely confident that if we had Elko last year, we'd have won a majority if not all of those close games.

 

[snoopdog]

The referee couldn't see it, because he was watching 23 spear Wimbush.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The more I watch Elko's defense this year, the more I loathe BVG, lol. I feel supremely confident that if we had Elko last year, we'd have won a majority if not all of those close games.

If only Elko had been on the staff in 2015.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm sure I'm being 'biased ND homer' here (A role I try to avoid but alas)... but it sure seems like targeting calls ALWAYS go the other way, regardless of circumstance.

 

[CrystalHead]

The more I watch Elko's defense this year, the more I loathe BVG, lol. I feel supremely confident that if we had Elko last year, we'd have won a majority if not all of those close games.

Agree 100%. I think the Elko philosophy has the complete endorsement of our coaching staff and is a heck of a lot easier to translate to the players. What's scary is the more the players learn to trust that every player is going to do their job, the better they will become. This defense is just getting started, look how many guys we rotate in and barely miss a beat. Hard for the opposing offense to wear us down in the course of the game.

 

[Luckylucci]

Agree 100%. I think the Elko philosophy has the complete endorsement of our coaching staff and is a heck of a lot easier to translate to the players. What's scary is the more the players learn to trust that every player is going to do their job, the better they will become. This defense is just getting started, look how many guys we rotate in and barely miss a beat. Hard for the opposing offense to wear us down in the course of the game.

There is/will be a nice blend of veteran leadership, young players growing in the system, and new recruiting blood coming into the program.

 

[dwshade]

Where Elko excels as a DC:

1. Communicates effectively with his players

2. Schemes brilliantly vs. opponents taking away what they do best

3. Puts his players in positions where they can succeed rather than fail

4. Creates turnovers. Actually has a system he teaches on how to do this

5. Terrific at making adjustments

6. Develops depth to keep players fresh

 

[GowerND11]

I'm sure I'm being 'biased ND homer' here (A role I try to avoid but alas)... but it sure seems like targeting calls ALWAYS go the other way, regardless of circumstance.

My exact thoughts as soon as I saw it happen. Tuitt in 2013, Fertitta last year, and wasn't there a bad/missed call against Virginia in 2015?

 

[#1rish]

My exact thoughts as soon as I saw it happen. Tuitt in 2013, Fertitta last year, and wasn't there a bad/missed call against Virginia in 2015?

I remember Shumate getting ejected in 2015 against Temple.

 

[GowerND11]

I remember Shumate getting ejected in 2015 against Temple.

Can't believe I forgot the no call at Texas last year with Hunter Jr.... That was disgustingly obvious.

 

[dublinirish]

Tuitt vs Pitt was the worst one

 

[IrishLax]

Tuitt vs Pitt was the worst one

I thought Fertitta was even worse. He's a 5' tall dude tackling a much larger running back and hits him shoulder to shoulder first. I have seen hits on RBs and WRs running with the ball where the guy comes flying across the field and hits them with nothing but helmet-to-helmet and everyone just shrugs it off and moves on to the next play because that's what happens when a ball carrier lowers their head. You can pick out literally a dozen plays a gain with more helmet-to-helmet contact on a ball carrier than what Fertitta did and no one ever even thinks about calling it.

The Tuitt call was atrocious, but at least it was on a QB behind the LOS.

 

[RDU Irish]

I was at that Pitt game, Pitt fans were unanimously laughing at how much of a gift that was to them and how pissed they would be if they were me. Probably the reason we lost. Hunter is the worst for me though - scary hit.

 

[ACamp1900]

I was at that Pitt game, Pitt fans were unanimously laughing at how much of a gift that was to them and how pissed they would be if they were me. Probably the reason we lost. Hunter is the worst for me though - scary hit.

Probably??

 

[RDU Irish]

Probably??

Should have been able to beat them without Tuitt, he was ejected in first play of the second quarter. Then again, Donald has proven to be a f-ing monster and he was a nightmare for our offensive line that day. Totally forgot about that fumble by Pitt our whole team just stared at.

From the ESPN Recap: Notre Dame vs. Pittsburgh - Game Recap - November 9, 2013 - ESPN

"Rees threw a pair of fourth-quarter interceptions to Pittsburgh's Ray Vinopal, allowing the Panthers to rally for a 28-21 victory on Saturday night and quash any notion the Irish (7-3) had of earning a BCS bid for the second straight year.

"Our mantra is you can't start winning until you stop losing and we did things tonight that caused losing," Kelly said.

Repeatedly.

Notre Dame extended two Pitt touchdown drives with major penalties, fumbled the ball deep inside Panther territory and inexplicably failed to jump on a fourth-quarter fumble by Pitt quarterback Tom Savage that could have swung momentum back in its favor."

 

[ACamp1900]

Your link doesn't work but Pitt ended up scoring on that drive correct? I remember it being one of those moments...

 

[RDU Irish]

Your link doesn't work but Pitt ended up scoring on that drive correct? I remember it being one of those moments...

fixed it - Yeah, super kick in the nuts and that drive was a TD (10 yard PI call same drive) but our D made them punt the next four possessions. We weren't deep on the line so no doubt they got a lot more push with Tuitt in the locker room. But we had every chance to win and Reesus threw two INTs with the game tied, second one returned to the 5 yard line leading to the go ahead, final score for Pitt. And that fumble by Savage, grrrr....

 

[Wingman Ray]

Older thread but couple things

1) Our WRs = clueless. Those screen passes they couldnt have ran worse after receiving the ball. Looks like they didnt even try to use the blocker as a shield or run off the blockers hip. Whoever is coaching the WRs really needs to be evaluated

2) Defense Im really wondering is more lucky than good. MSU really wasnt a very good executing team. That QB missed a LOT of throws and run defense wise, didnt look like ND defended the off tackle runs well at all. Didnt see a lot of good execution at all. Defense needs a lot of help to really be considered a good defense. Possible? Maybe. But definitely not right now. Dline no one is standing out or even up at that.

3) Hainsey @ RT really needs help at pass protection. A good pass rushing DE is going to eat his lunch all night if he doesnt get a lot better or a lot of help with another player chipping in on blocking

4) MSU is a really dirty team. That safety #23 was thug-a-liscious all game. Cant expect much from Michigan residents I guess.

5) Talent and physical wise, no comparison. Significant size difference on both sides of the ball Line wise in NDs favor. Looked kinda like ND vs Navy.

6) Wimbush telegraphs the heck out of his target. Crystal ball predicts a lot of picks in his future if he doesnt change his evil ways.

7) Those are some weak duck kickoffs. Isnt there a walk on somewhere that can kick better than that?

8) Run-The-Ball-Left-Side-Every-Play. Repeat after me...there is no right side. There is no right side...

9) Good news three weeks off to practice vs USC.

10) NDs cheerleaders couldnt be any less attractive. Im hoping for the fellas sake that St Mary's has some hotties cos these ND girls look like the back of your balls

 

[brewdog_14527]

Wow, Debbie Downer! Were you one of the talking heads on the halftime show??

 

[Wingman Ray]

Wow, Debbie Downer! Were you one of the talking heads on the halftime show??

No just actually just was able to watch the game today. Glad for the win but wasnt the best example for college football by far.

Good news is ND has 3 weeks off to prepare for USC. Ohio is a high school team and NC cant get out of their own way followed by an off week.