Post Game Observations - Virginia '15

[WestCoast]

For the love of fvcking God; ND ran the ball 34 times today. They only threw it 30 times. Why is anyone bitching about not running the ball?

The number of one versus the other is a very meaningless stat. Not to mention the run numbers were padded by the multiple failures on short yardage conversion situations. My issue with not running the ball "enough" was the timing of the play calls and when to use the pass vs run.

Prosise had over 100 yards in the first half. The game plan after that should have been to keep feeding all three RBs in a Big set (i.e. 2 or 3 TEs) because the passing game wasn't working in the first half.

On one of Kizer's drives, it was three passes and punt. The timing and calling of short passes (when deep passes showed to be successful) was the problem.

 

[pkt77242]

Well, you base it on who is doing the blitzing. So it wouldn't make any sense to drop Okwara, if the LB playing behind him is slow as molasses.

Not really. While there are zone blitzes were you drop your DT and have your MLB rush, there are also zone blitzes were your drop your LE, the rest of the D-line slants left, and then you bring someone like your ROLB, your RCB or your safety on that side. There are many different zone blitzes, and dropping Day once might be defendable but every time is not.


ETA: We even ran a zone blitz in HS against undisciplined teams where both DE's headed to the flats, both DTs went wide and we blitzed 2 LBs up the middle hoping that the guards would follow the DTs wide and leaving the C to deal with 2 blitzers.

 

[dmort]

Tenuta had a pretty good defensive game plan.

 

[koonja]

So are we now 4/4 with 4 TDs on bombs of 40 yards plus? Why the F don't we air it out long more often? That's what OSU does. They don't F around with dink and dunk. The read option, bomb deep.

 

[WestCoast]

I had to watch the first half, leave, then came home to watch the 2nd half a few hours later, so my continuity of watching is skewed, so maybe some of you guys can help.

It seemed like Chris Brown played terrible. I saw him miss more than one key block and I thought I saw a couple of drops. Is that right?

It also seemed like Carlisle was worthless in the slot and on KO returns.

I'd rather see Robinson play over Brown and Hunter Jr play over Carlisle. I'd also rather see more 2 and 3 TE sets rather than 4 WR sets.

 

[kmoose]

The number of one versus the other is a very meaningless stat. Not to mention the run numbers were padded by the multiple failures on short yardage conversion situations. My issue with not running the ball "enough" was the timing of the play calls and when to use the pass vs run.

Prosise had over 100 yards in the first half. The game plan after that should have been to keep feeding all three RBs in a Big set (i.e. 2 or 3 TEs) because the passing game wasn't working in the first half.

On one of Kizer's drives, it was three passes and punt. The timing and calling of short passes (when deep passes showed to be successful) was the problem.

You have to have balance in your offense. If you just run, run, run, the defense puts numbers in the box and shuts you down. I know it is tempting to say "X is working, why not do more X?", but a lot of times X is working because the defense is respecting Y.

ND put up 34 points on 460 yards of offense. There was no lack of offense today. It may have seemed like it dried up at times, but the final numbers are good.

 

[koonja]

I had to watch the first half, leave, then came home to watch the 2nd half a few hours later, so my continuity of watching is skewed, so maybe some of you guys can help.

It seemed like Chris Brown played terrible. I saw him miss more than one key block and I thought I saw a couple of drops. Is that right?

It also seemed like Carlisle was worthless in the slot and on KO returns.

I'd rather see Robinson play over Brown and Hunter Jr play over Carlisle. I'd also rather see more 2 and 3 TE sets rather than 4 WR sets.

IDK why some think our WRs are so great. Chris Brown is average again it appears. He may be a practice superstar, but he's not fast enough to run away from anyone, and doesn't have great strength. Robinson is slow, but should be used more in the redzone. IDK why he wasn't in for the redzone more often today. Amir is just annoying to wach. Runs with OK speed into someone and falls.

 

[tko]

I had to watch the first half, leave, then came home to watch the 2nd half a few hours later, so my continuity of watching is skewed, so maybe some of you guys can help.

It seemed like Chris Brown played terrible. I saw him miss more than one key block and I thought I saw a couple of drops. Is that right?

It also seemed like Carlisle was worthless in the slot and on KO returns.

I'd rather see Robinson play over Brown and Hunter Jr play over Carlisle. I'd also rather see more 2 and 3 TE sets rather than 4 WR sets.

Very observant. Brown is not good and Carlisle is mediocre at best.

 

[ickythump1225]

The number of one versus the other is a very meaningless stat. Not to mention the run numbers were padded by the multiple failures on short yardage conversion situations. My issue with not running the ball "enough" was the timing of the play calls and when to use the pass vs run.

Prosise had over 100 yards in the first half. The game plan after that should have been to keep feeding all three RBs in a Big set (i.e. 2 or 3 TEs) because the passing game wasn't working in the first half.

On one of Kizer's drives, it was three passes and punt. The timing and calling of short passes (when deep passes showed to be successful) was the problem.

Exactly, it's not the number of runs. It is the bizarre timing of our abandonment of the run and just weird play calling in general.

 

[IrishHokie22]

I was at the game, thanks to a family friend (UVA alum) hooking me up with some tickets. Thoughts:

- It took me a while to process that ending. The moment Zaire went down my mood changed. I had legitimate playoff hopes for the team but they went away with one broken ankle. I was far more concerned with Zaire's ankle for the rest of the game than I was the final score. Maybe I'm just wired differently than others.

- Jaylon Smith is a freak. I would love to see him come back next season but certainly can't blame him if he doesn't. He's a sure-fire top 10 pick and future NFL All-Pro. He was far and away the most impressive player on the field. He's all over the place.

- The rest of the defense, particularly the secondary, was putrid. Butler was awful. Luke wasn't good. Russell doesn't look like he did prior to the suspension. Redfield is a guy who has all the tools but zero football instincts. He's constantly out of position and never makes a play on the ball. He's maddening.

The secondary had plenty of chances to get INTs but as a whole, they just don't attack the ball. Johns threw plenty of ducks today and they just let UVA win jump balls. It was an embarrassing showing, IMO.

- I'm not sure if BVG is the problem with the defense or if it's simply the players. Other than Day and Jaylon, no one on our defense impresses me (Cage is decent, Tillery flashes potential, and that's all I've got). We can't get a rush without blitzing, and that's partially due to mediocre DE recruiting the last couple of seasons.

- The playcalling today was... bad. Really bad. Running zone reads out of shotgun when you need half a yard is moronic when you have an OL like this one going against UVA.

- Prosise is awesome. Guy is fearless.

- Fuller is going to play on Sundays. Guy is crazy fast.

- Yeah, it was a great ending that we'll remember (and was awesome to witness in person), but Kizer really didn't look good to me. Hell, on the last play, he stared down Fuller the whole way; why UVA didn't have safety help is beyond me. He may be good someday, but he is going to have significant growing pains this season. I think it will get ugly.

- I'm just really, really bummed. If this team stayed relatively healthy they had a fighting chance at the playoff; as it stands now, 9-3 would be a miracle, IMO. Injuries happen, and the attrition we've suffered is sticking out like a sore thumb. We'd still have a chance if Golson was still here (and having Bryant would help), but oh well. It's always something with Notre Dame.

- BK has another excuse for an 8-4 season (which will be a success, IMO), which sucks. This was the year for us to make a run at it, and it looks things have been put on hold for yet another season. This is tiresome.

- UVA isn't good, and don't pretend like they are either. They're a 6-6 team at best. It's highly concerning that we couldn't get a yard on 3rd/4th and 1 vs them or stop their mediocre offense from going for 400+.

 

[phgreek]

1. PHEW!!! Everyone can breathe again.

2. Started off fast, then let Virginia back into it, then pulled a rabbit out of the hat.

You can say that again...

3. The Secondary did NOT look good at all. They didn't cover well, they didn't play the ball well, they didn't tackle well. I see WAY TOO MANY cases of a safety trying to blast a guy with a shoulder tackle and completely whiffing. Inexcusable

All corners looked pedestrian today, and the safeties look no better than last year. Not sure what they are going to do, but that shit can't continue.

4. How bad is Texas' O Line? Our D Line looked like All Americans against them.

How bad is Texas Period...

5. I like Prosise at Tailback, but I hate how upright he runs. Get those pads down and be a smaller target for tacklers.

He is strong, and does a nice job getting positive yards...he misses the flat cut when its there, and yea, he could drop that pad level.

6. BK said, on the field after the game, that Zaire's injury IS in fact an ankle, but he would not know more until he got into the locker room. It didn't look good, and I feel terrible for him.

I am sick to my stomach. He is exactly what this team needed...of course he was going to be inconsistent in his performance from game to game, but he made things happen anyway...he was ready to become great. Sad for him, the team, and all of us...

7. Those of you who threw away the entire season when Zaire went down can kiss my ass! Good luck, and God Bless, DeShone Kizer........ you will likely need it.

I'll always hope for the best, but going through the season w/o 25 and 8 is a huge dose of adversity...we shall see.

.

 

[dmort]

BK post game.Sorry if its already been posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pU4bC2KJEs&feature=youtu.be

 

[kmoose]

- The playcalling today was... bad. Really bad. Running zone reads out of shotgun when you need half a yard is moronic when you have an OL like this one going against UVA.

There are a LOT of college football teams that run a zone read offense. Can you name ONE of them that moves their quarterback under center on 3rd and short?

 

[IrishHokie22]

There are a LOT of college football teams that run a zone read offense. Can you name ONE of them that moves their quarterback under center on 3rd and short?

I don't watch every team, every play, every week, and I'm not going to bother to try to research that question. But two things: 1) we do run out of the pistol, which I would prefer to zone read one 3rd/4th and 1, and 2) who cares? It's not that hard to line up under center and snap the damn ball. It's not like QBs/centers suddenly forget how to do a standard snap because they play in a zone-read offense. If pee-wee-ers can do it, I'm pretty sure division 1A athletes can as well.

 

[kmoose]

I don't watch every team, every play, every week, and I'm not going to bother to try to research that question. But two things: 1) we do run out of the pistol, which I would prefer to zone read one 3rd/4th and 1, and 2) who cares? It's not that hard to line up under center and snap the damn ball. It's not like QBs/centers suddenly forget how to do a standard snap because they play in a zone-read offense. If pee-wee-ers can do it, I'm pretty sure division 1A athletes can as well.

There's a reason that no other team that runs a zone read offense puts their quarterback under center on 3rd and short; and it's not because it is so easy and obvious. It's only easy and obvious for the defense.

As for the pistol; I don't mind that at all, but it still doesn't do any good if the line doesn't block well. And running for one or two yards out of the shotgun shouldn't be a problem, if the line is blocking well.

 

[IrishHokie22]

There's a reason that no other team that runs a zone read offense puts their quarterback under center on 3rd and short; and it's not because it is so easy and obvious. It's only easy and obvious for the defense.

As for the pistol; I don't mind that at all, but it still doesn't do any good if the line doesn't block well. And running for one or two yards out of the shotgun shouldn't be a problem, if the line is blocking well.

On 3rd/4th and 1, teams know you're probably going to run. It doesn't matter if you line up under center or not.

The problem is you're starting your run 3-4 yards behind the LOS and the defense is fully prepared for the run. I'd rather run it straight up the middle, on a standard handoff, when I need one yard rather than forcing my QB to make a decision where the slightest bit of hesitation will likely be costly.

It's just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[kmoose]

On 3rd/4th and 1, teams know you're probably going to run. It doesn't matter if you line up under center or not.

The problem is you're starting your run 3-4 yards behind the LOS and the defense is fully prepared for the run. I'd rather run it straight up the middle, on a standard handoff, when I need one yard rather than forcing my QB to make a decision where the slightest bit of hesitation will likely be costly.

It's just a pet peeve of mine.

I understand. But I don't think that I'm going out on a limb when I say that I trust the judgement of dozens of professional coaches over your judgement in the matter. If running the zone read on 3rd and 1 were really such a disadvantage, then those coaches would not be doing it.

 

[IrishHokie22]

I understand. But I don't think that I'm going out on a limb when I say that I trust the judgement of dozens of professional coaches over your judgement in the matter. If running the zone read on 3rd and 1 were really such a disadvantage, then those coaches would not be doing it.

Fair enough, but if we're always deferring to the judgment of the coaches, then what's the point of discussion?

It goes without saying that our coaching staff knows more about football than I do (as well as 99% of this board), but I'm not going to automatically defer to their judgment. They're not infallible; I'm not saying I could have called better plays in those situations, but I do believe there are better options in the playbook...

 

[Bishop2b5]

Only observation i have is....Van Gorder needs to go.

BVG was bloody awful at Auburn. Not sure why anyone expected him to be better anywhere else. His problems at AU weren't just a lack of talent. He's a guy who was a decent position coach, but has no business being a DC.

 

[pkt77242]

There are a LOT of college football teams that run a zone read offense. Can you name ONE of them that moves their quarterback under center on 3rd and short?

That is a very good point. I just want to see a pistol formation on 3rd and short. It is easier to get some downhill momentum and you can easily run the zone read from it.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm watching my recording of the game...
-Scored on first 3 possessions. Good.
-UVA then has sheer dumb luck on the next drive... 3rd down pass should've been picked by probably 2 different players, instead is tipped (good defense) and ends up caught for a first down. Then for some reason we have Onwualu 1-on-1 with their best WR. They end up scoring on 3rd and goal on misdirection like they will utilize all game to good results. Shit happens.
-Next drive ND gets it 2nd and 2 on UVA 25. Three bad, obvious running plays later and it's a turnover on downs. Any play action and we probably score. Either way points left on the field.
-UVA then runs a perfect trick play. So after 4 dominant ND drives nets 12 points... and then sheer dumb luck + a trick play puts UVA up. There is no way to look at this half and think ND isn't thoroughly outplaying UVA despite a lack of execution by Zaire and bad 3rd down play calling.

-Second half, ND dominates latter part of 3rd quarter. Scores 2 TDs + a missed field goal... and Zaire breaks his ankle. At this point, despite ND playing "bad" they have 26 points and should have about 38. Against a top 20ish defense. Converting ZERO 3rd downs.

-4th quarter you can tell the team is just... I don't know what the right word is. Somber? Tentative? UVA is reinvigorated. CJ Prosise at one point has 15 carriers for 155 yards despite everyone knowing he's getting the ball. We all know how the game ends.

In short, I don't understand the doom and gloom or Kelly hate. I don't get it at all. 460 yards and 34 points on a good defense despite everything that went wrong. UVA moved the ball well on offense... excepting the trick play, they were comparable to how they did against UCLA. The difference is that their red zone offense, which is usually horrendous, was really great today. There are a host of issues that contribute to that.

As an aside...
-Newsome is punting the hell out of the ball!
-Joe Schmidt looks like he has lost a full step.
-Redfield had a lot of issues playing with a cast, that one tackle whiff was painful to watch.
-Vertical passing game is legit. Fuller is a boss. We need to open it up more.
-Russel looks fat and slow. I know that isn't true, but he seems so bulky compared to two years ago.
-We played more zone than I thought we did. Some of it was good, some of it was really bad. It really just looks like the guys were confused on responsibilities on a lot of plays.

 

[woolybug25]

BVG was bloody awful at Auburn. Not sure why anyone expected him to be better anywhere else. His problems at AU weren't just a lack of talent. He's a guy who was a decent position coach, but has no business being a DC.

With all due respect, bishop... No one gives a flip about what a bama fan has to say about our coaches.

There's a stark difference between what Tommy posts and what you do. Don't trip on us when we're down, that's not your place. We have always been kind to you as an outsider, the least you can do is not come on here after a tough game and shit on our staff.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I probably posted this in the wrong thread, so I'm reposting here. Wondering if anyone else thought this.

One thing I saw repeatedly today, and I'm interested if anyone else noticed it, is that Johns threw a ton of balls balls off his back foot and completed a ridiculous amount of those throws (a dozen, maybe?). It just seems like even though we weren't getting home, we were making the QB make throws that are usually very low percentage throws. So the fact that he completed so many of these is probably partially bad luck, partially bad coverage, and partially that however good Johns is overall he seemed good at doing that specific thing which is generally suicide for a passer.

 

[Rudy89]

Without Malik Clemson and USC will humiliate us. Best Case scenario another 8-5 year and I'll be saving my personal days for something other than those games. Nothing against Kizer but we just can't do it without Malik...we just cant

 

[IrishLax]

I probably posted this in the wrong thread, so I'm reposting here. Wondering if anyone else thought this.

I definitely noticed this, and commented on it in another thread. I had endzone seats (which suck) but one thing they give you is a great view of when the QB is letting go of the ball relative to where WRs are in their routes.

We forced him to throw early pretty much all game. Now, part of that is just good quarterbacking. Guys like Manning and Brady throw with anticipation. However, a bunch of these throws, as you said, were floaters off his back foot. They ended up lucky/accurate and their guys seemed to come out of their breaks a step before the ball got there, locate it, and then make the catch virtually uncontested. Many times he let the ball go I was SURE it would be a pick... only to watch it float miraculously right to where his receiver was.

 

[koonja]

S/O to Shummate. Kid played really well tonight.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm watching my recording of the game...
-Scored on first 3 possessions. Good.
-UVA then has sheer dumb luck on the next drive... 3rd down pass should've been picked by probably 2 different players, instead is tipped (good defense) and ends up caught for a first down. Then for some reason we have Onwualu 1-on-1 with their best WR. They end up scoring on 3rd and goal on misdirection like they will utilize all game to good results. Shit happens.
-Next drive ND gets it 2nd and 2 on UVA 25. Three bad, obvious running plays later and it's a turnover on downs. Any play action and we probably score. Either way points left on the field.
-UVA then runs a perfect trick play. So after 4 dominant ND drives nets 12 points... and then sheer dumb luck + a trick play puts UVA up. There is no way to look at this half and think ND isn't thoroughly outplaying UVA despite a lack of execution by Zaire and bad 3rd down play calling.

-Second half, ND dominates latter part of 3rd quarter. Scores 2 TDs + a missed field goal... and Zaire breaks his ankle. At this point, despite ND playing "bad" they have 26 points and should have about 38. Against a top 20ish defense. Converting ZERO 3rd downs.

-4th quarter you can tell the team is just... I don't know what the right word is. Somber? Tentative? UVA is reinvigorated. CJ Prosise at one point has 15 carriers for 155 yards despite everyone knowing he's getting the ball. We all know how the game ends.

In short, I don't understand the doom and gloom or Kelly hate. I don't get it at all. 460 yards and 34 points on a good defense despite everything that went wrong. UVA moved the ball well on offense... excepting the trick play, they were comparable to how they did against UCLA. The difference is that their red zone offense, which is usually horrendous, was really great today. There are a host of issues that contribute to that.

As an aside...
-Newsome is punting the hell out of the ball!
-Joe Schmidt looks like he has lost a full step.
-Redfield had a lot of issues playing with a cast, that one tackle whiff was painful to watch.
-Vertical passing game is legit. Fuller is a boss. We need to open it up more.
-Russel looks fat and slow. I know that isn't true, but he seems so bulky compared to two years ago.
-We played more zone than I thought we did. Some of it was good, some of it was really bad. It really just looks like the guys were confused on responsibilities on a lot of plays.

What, Keivarae Russell is fat? Or JaMarcus?
I'm lost.

 

[NDPhilly]

Keivarae is anything but fat dude but besides that I agree with almost all you said. We didn't play that bad. Thought Johns was extremely lucky on a bunch of throws. It was a away game after a big home win to start the year and we still probably cover the spread if Zaire doesnt go down.

 

[Jo Jo the Dog Faced Boy]

S/O to Shummate. Kid played really well tonight.

Shumate had a great game. Made a bunch of tackles.

 

[IrishLion]

1. CJ is a man. He is already learning not to hesitate, and has a great feel for where the creases are developing. Please god stay healthy.

2. The o-line was good today, except for short-yardage situations. The playcalling didn't help, especially late, but these guys need to know that now, more than ever, they need to man up and take control at all times. When the defense knows you're running up the middle on fourth and one... suck it up and get a push (easier said than done, but these dudes have the ability to take over). McGlinchey had a rough day at times; Elmer played like a boss; Nelson might be an AA this year.

3. Gary Gray was playing all three CB positions today. LAX already broke it down better than I could, but it is perplexing to see these guys floundering when the ball is thrown early and just kind of floating to the receiver. I honestly think the problem was that Johns was so non-conventional in his throws that the corners were all kind of off-kilter the whole game. It was like 2011 Michigan when Denard was rewarded for under-throwing all of the passes.

4. BVG is good for like three or four outstanding playcalls per game. And that's not good enough.

5. Tranquill has been lights-out at whatever OLB/S/CB hybrid position they have him playing. It's almost like peewee football when you let the best athlete play as a "Monster" and let him do whatever he wants. Sometimes he's timing the blitz properly, sometimes he's in solid underneath coverage, sometimes he's making a sure tackle. Whatever it is, keep doing more of that with him. Seriously though, can anyone tell me what they have him playing officially? Is he a hyprid OLB in a 3-3 dime package? I seriously can't tell, and I haven't dialed in enough on the film to look at the rest of the defense when he's out there going rover and making plays.

6. Shumate is the Everett Golson of the defense. He makes brilliant plays; he makes head-scratching plays. We'll see how he handles the A-backs from GT next week.

7. I will not be surprised in the least when BK opens it up full air-raid for the rest of the year. Kizer is a tall, rocket-armed gunslinger. Start watching tape of 08/09 UC with Pike at the helm, because hopefully that's what BK is doing right now in the office.

8. Y U No like TE's, BK??? I saw Alize getting ripped on the sidelines a few times today, and Smythe seemed non-existent as a pass-catcher (though he did a hell of a job as an H-back a few times). Lutua is turning into a good one as a blocker, as well, so the lack of a focus on TE's is perplexing, especially when Fuller as a threat to blow the top off on any play should be keeping the middle a little less congested.

9. IE, collectively, looks like the inside of a confused teenagers brain right now. The emotions are EVERYWHERE lol.

10. We're on to GT. God help us. Navy on roids.