Post Game Observations (Oklahoma)....

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I wasn't impressed by Blake Bell. He was constantly throwing way too high on players. If we knew how to cover players he would have had his receivers get hammered because they had to reach and jump to have a chance. It's just easy to throw it to constantly wide-open guys.
 

irishpat183

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I wasn't impressed by Blake Bell. He was constantly throwing way too high on players. If we knew how to cover players he would have had his receivers get hammered because they had to reach and jump to have a chance. It's just easy to throw it to constantly wide-open guys.

But Tommy is a top 25 QB......


IE makes me crazy sometimes.
 

tommyIRISH23

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I rewatched the game without the emotion of the heartbreaking loss.

1. Our offense is set up to take what the defense gives us. 10/11 guys on the field are put into positions to press the defense and take what they can get by spreading out the field; the problem lies with our 11th man...Tommy Rees. Countless times Tommy couldn't take what the defense was giving us, an easy 5-10 run. He's just not in the right system for his skillset. Its like taking a Buick LeSabre off-roading, he just cant function in our offense efficiently.

I miss EG.

2. The defense wasn't too bad. They were thrown into some pretty tough situations. I thought they played well enough to win. Take away the pick 6, the other INT that put Oklahoma in the redzone, and Tommy throwing an INT when we were in range to get points and were sitting pretty; probably winning the game.

Its the same story as 2011. Turnovers are a killer, and that speaks volumes about our team given that we dug ourselves in a hole only to fight back. The Golson situation is incredibly painful for me after today. With Golson playing, we roll.

Ugh. Wait until next year I guess.
 

RDU Irish

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Rather than say "wait til next year" I want to see what the coaching staff does to put this team back on track and develop a killer instinct. What the hell are we holding back for now? I don't care who is lined up against you this week, you should be excited for the chance to go ape sh!t on someone other than your practice squad. Rather see you screw up with gusto than fall backwards on yourself trying not to screw up.

Why are so many other teams able to plug and play talented youth but our players are vapor locked until their fifth year?
 

palinurus

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I wasn't impressed by Blake Bell. He was constantly throwing way too high on players. If we knew how to cover players he would have had his receivers get hammered because they had to reach and jump to have a chance. It's just easy to throw it to constantly wide-open guys.


This. The best things he did was throw fairly well under ten yards (an Irish weak spot) and not turn the ball over. That team would get crushed by Alabama, e.g.
 

Ndaccountant

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Rather than say "wait til next year" I want to see what the coaching staff does to put this team back on track and develop a killer instinct. What the hell are we holding back for now? I don't care who is lined up against you this week, you should be excited for the chance to go ape sh!t on someone other than your practice squad. Rather see you screw up with gusto than fall backwards on yourself trying not to screw up.

Why are so many other teams able to plug and play talented youth but our players are vapor locked until their fifth year?

IMO, the problem is more about where the youth resides and we are not really that good elsewhere.

Think about DB's. Our safeties are a mess due to youth (Shumate) and not being very good elsewhere (Farley / Collinsworth). Our corners are serviceable, but hardly elite. Smith will be good but is being asked to do things he isn't ready for. Grace is thinking too much and we lack explosiveness at DE. We are just plain old average in a few positions and lack experience at others. Add to the fact that our offense is not holding the ball much (79th in time of possession in 2013 compared to 23rd a year ago), you are ripe for a drop off.
 

NDBoiler

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On a positive note, I think Carlo had his best game of the year on Saturday. Made some key tackles and hard hits in run defense.
 

irishpat183

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This. The best things he did was throw fairly well under ten yards (an Irish weak spot) and not turn the ball over. That team would get crushed by Alabama, e.g.

I'm glad that helps us sleep tonight. Knowing that a team that just beat us, at home, would get crushed by a team that crushed us on the biggest stage of them all.


Good lord.

I doubt Blake Bell gives a damn about impressing us...points to scoreboard. I'd take him over Tommy, and beat us on Saturday.
 

Booslum31

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I didn't see anything out of Hendrix to think he is any better. Not to mention he has never been able to beat out Tommy, ever. I like mixing him in there, just disappointed that he did nothing with the opportunities.

I don't understand why the staff can't put a game plan together for Tommy. They have had plenty of time and we should be able to put up plenty of points with a mediocre QB running a talent rich offense. WRs and RBs have plenty of talent and game breaking ability. Oline should be above average, if not very good. TEs, Troy is a monster to reckon with. So...... WHY IS OUR TEAM RANKED 88 IN YPG and 85 IN PPG?!?!? Oh yeah, Tommy.

Total Offense - NCAA.com
Scoring Offense - NCAA.com

On the pro-level we see another immobile quarterback shred defenses (Tom Brady). I agree that there must be a game plan that can work around this guys inability to move in the pocket. I've been harping on getting our TE's involved in the ball game...more consistently. And I don't mean fade routes!
 

Ndaccountant

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On the pro-level we see another immobile quarterback shred defenses (Tom Brady). I agree that there must be a game plan that can work around this guys inability to move in the pocket. I've been harping on getting our TE's involved in the ball game...more consistently. And I don't mean fade routes!

Simply stunning
 

NDBoiler

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On the pro-level we see another immobile quarterback shred defenses (Tom Brady). I agree that there must be a game plan that can work around this guys inability to move in the pocket. I've been harping on getting our TE's involved in the ball game...more consistently. And I don't mean fade routes!

Excellent point. In all honesty, I bet that was at least part of the reason BK spent so much time in the offseason with Bellicheck. Now if Rees could just do a little better job on the Tom Brady impression, it would be great!
 

tommyIRISH23

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Rather than say "wait til next year" I want to see what the coaching staff does to put this team back on track and develop a killer instinct. What the hell are we holding back for now? I don't care who is lined up against you this week, you should be excited for the chance to go ape sh!t on someone other than your practice squad. Rather see you screw up with gusto than fall backwards on yourself trying not to screw up.

Why are so many other teams able to plug and play talented youth but our players are vapor locked until their fifth year?

Because we're missing a key component to make our offense run efficiently. Other teams lose their QB and have a backup that has experience in the system/fits the system. We don't. Zaire is a true freshman who missed much needed time because he was sick. Hendrix just doesn't have it. Who else? Gunner Kiehl would've probably provided much needed relief. I respect Tommy. I do. The kid has given everything to the program, and has tremendous heart. But he can't scramble/run for first downs and lacks the arm strength to loosen up the defense both of which are needed to run ND's offense efficiently. Sure, he can heave the ball 50 yards, but he doesn't have the zip to thread the needle on a 15 yard out route, or a 15-20 yard post between the MLB, Safety, and CB. Because of this he has to think very fast and take some chances that another QB wouldn't.

So what are the options? We can't run the ball because tommy is not a serious threat outside of 20 yards in the middle of the field. Defenses load the box, even on 3rd down passing situations, because the LB's don't have to drop too far back in coverage. Our Oline is good, but not LSU/2012 Alabama good where it didn't matter if 11 guys were in the box bc the line of scrimmage would just get dominated. So we can't just ram it down teams throats.

Change the offense to create mismatches ala Weis/Pro-style? Sure. But now your overhauling your identity and making our young players learn a different system only to revert back to the current system next season when we have a spread QB behind center in Golson/or Zaire? Our young guys would be losing precious reps and experience which in turn would stunt our growth for the future.

The QB situation has been a mess. While its not directly Kellys fault, he is the captain and has to catch some accountability. The EG situation is so frustrating. It drives me crazy. But, its what we have to deal with until next season. Once we have some continuity in the position we all see continued success, sadly, some bizarre situations have delayed the long term stability of the position.

Im just praying for atleast 8 wins so the recruiting class doesn't crumble
 

tommyIRISH23

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On the pro-level we see another immobile quarterback shred defenses (Tom Brady). I agree that there must be a game plan that can work around this guys inability to move in the pocket. I've been harping on getting our TE's involved in the ball game...more consistently. And I don't mean fade routes!

Yeah. You scrap the the current offense and install a new system. Teach new blocking assignments and scheme to our offensives line-have our young WRs learn differents ques-have our Qb that doesn't have an arm try to pick apart a defense within 20 yards of the LOS Bc he cant execute outside of that range aside from heaving a ball 45-50 yards. To run a prostyle offended you need a QB that has a strong arm plus you cant just replace a offense built with players to run the spread for a prostyle offense. You think were bad now? Picture 2007.

The logical approach is to try to win 8 games and wait for EG to return or MZ to emerge. Now. I wouldn't be opposed to getting MZ some reps. EG seems like a gamble to me Bc we don't know if hell be rusty or even beagle to handle the academics.
 

tussin

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I've resisted posting my thoughts so far.

Man, that was tough to watch. The bottom line is that you can't spot a team like OK 14 points and expect to win.

It's super frustrating watching Tommy play. The guy moves like he's in quicksand and he simply doesn't have the ability that an ND QB should have. I feel for our coaching staff because they built this team around having guys like EV and GK as starting QBs only to see one not take of business off the field and have the other punk out and be reluctant to compete. Now the coaching staff and ND nation is stuck with Tommy and the program is essentially on hold this year.

I like Tommy as a person, I'll always cheer for Tommy, but I don't trust in the product on the field when Tommy is the QB.
 

Patulski

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returnofthemack;1124611 Nobody doubts Bell as a runner said:
Look, he wasn't perfect but he hit quick slants, out patterns, hot routes, curls, crossing patterns, screen passes and bought time scrambling to throw a 26 yard TD. He ran for first downs on 3rd and long and added a dimension of the read option. He has to improve his accuracy on long passes. If he does, he has all the athletic tools to play at the next level.
 

palinurus

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I'm glad that helps us sleep tonight. Knowing that a team that just beat us, at home, would get crushed by a team that crushed us on the biggest stage of them all.


Good lord.

I doubt Blake Bell gives a damn about impressing us...points to scoreboard. I'd take him over Tommy, and beat us on Saturday.


The original comment was about Blake Bell, as was my response. Neither of us said anything about sleeping or whether Bell is better than Rees. So your comment is extraneous.
 

NDWorld247

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Yeah. You scrap the the current offense and install a new system. Teach new blocking assignments and scheme to our offensives line-have our young WRs learn differents ques-have our Qb that doesn't have an arm try to pick apart a defense within 20 yards of the LOS Bc he cant execute outside of that range aside from heaving a ball 45-50 yards. To run a prostyle offended you need a QB that has a strong arm plus you cant just replace a offense built with players to run the spread for a prostyle offense. You think were bad now? Picture 2007.

The logical approach is to try to win 8 games and wait for EG to return or MZ to emerge. Now. I wouldn't be opposed to getting MZ some reps. EG seems like a gamble to me Bc we don't know if hell be rusty or even beagle to handle the academics.

The OP never said anything about style of offense. In fact, there's very little difference between a pro-style offense and a spread. With the way NFL offenses have evolved, there's basically no difference and our offense this year would be classified more as pro-style than spread simply because there is no threat from the QB to run.

On the pro-level we see another immobile quarterback shred defenses (Tom Brady). I agree that there must be a game plan that can work around this guys inability to move in the pocket. I've been harping on getting our TE's involved in the ball game...more consistently. And I don't mean fade routes!

From a physical attribute standpoint, the comparison with Brady is a good one with the biggest exception being arm strength. So why has Brady been successful and not Rees?

With the exception of the Randy Moss years, the Patriots didn't try to stretch the field. Brady made Troy Brown and Wes Welker pro bowl players in the slot and killed teams with matchups nightmares from the TE position. They also established a respectable run game, again with the exception of that undefeated season, which allowed for a successful play action attack. Anyone watch the game last night? Brady picked apart the Falcons on play action.

So, how many receptions do our players have from the Z or slot position this season? How many receptions/targets for Niklas? What's the run/pass ratio? I don't have stats to back this up, but our play action game this year has been really good when used, but we don't use it nearly enough.

I'm going to continue to say it until something changes...the offensive game plan has sucked since the 2nd quarter of the Temple game. No commitment to the run. Very few passes thrown to the slot and TE positions. The fade into man coverage when you have a mismatch on the outside works (e.g. Randy Moss), but not when the CBs will be drafted next April (e.g. MSU and Oklahoma). Martin's play calling was my biggest worry coming into the season and he hasn't done anything to prove me wrong. I know BK and Rees share some of the blame, but I just don't like Martin so he's getting the majority of my ridicule.
 

Wild Bill

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The OP never said anything about style of offense. In fact, there's very little difference between a pro-style offense and a spread. With the way NFL offenses have evolved, there's basically no difference and our offense this year would be classified more as pro-style than spread simply because there is no threat from the QB to run.



From a physical attribute standpoint, the comparison with Brady is a good one with the biggest exception being arm strength. So why has Brady been successful and not Rees?

With the exception of the Randy Moss years, the Patriots didn't try to stretch the field. Brady made Troy Brown and Wes Welker pro bowl players in the slot and killed teams with matchups nightmares from the TE position. They also established a respectable run game, again with the exception of that undefeated season, which allowed for a successful play action attack. Anyone watch the game last night? Brady picked apart the Falcons on play action.

So, how many receptions do our players have from the Z or slot position this season? How many receptions/targets for Niklas? What's the run/pass ratio? I don't have stats to back this up, but our play action game this year has been really good when used, but we don't use it nearly enough.

I'm going to continue to say it until something changes...the offensive game plan has sucked since the 2nd quarter of the Temple game. No commitment to the run. Very few passes thrown to the slot and TE positions. The fade into man coverage when you have a mismatch on the outside works (e.g. Randy Moss), but not when the CBs will be drafted next April (e.g. MSU and Oklahoma). Martin's play calling was my biggest worry coming into the season and he hasn't done anything to prove me wrong. I know BK and Rees share some of the blame, but I just don't like Martin so he's getting the majority of my ridicule.

Agreed. They absolutely could have imposed their will on Oklahoma and won this game. The oline was driving their D-line off the ball (finally), getting to the second level and sticking to their blocks (by far Lombard's best game). There were several runs where the back wasn't touched until he was five yards down field.
 

tommyIRISH23

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The OP never said anything about style of offense. In fact, there's very little difference between a pro-style offense and a spread. With the way NFL offenses have evolved, there's basically no difference and our offense this year would be classified more as pro-style than spread simply because there is no threat from the QB to run.



From a physical attribute standpoint, the comparison with Brady is a good one with the biggest exception being arm strength. So why has Brady been successful and not Rees?

With the exception of the Randy Moss years, the Patriots didn't try to stretch the field. Brady made Troy Brown and Wes Welker pro bowl players in the slot and killed teams with matchups nightmares from the TE position. They also established a respectable run game, again with the exception of that undefeated season, which allowed for a successful play action attack. Anyone watch the game last night? Brady picked apart the Falcons on play action.

So, how many receptions do our players have from the Z or slot position this season? How many receptions/targets for Niklas? What's the run/pass ratio? I don't have stats to back this up, but our play action game this year has been really good when used, but we don't use it nearly enough.

I'm going to continue to say it until something changes...the offensive game plan has sucked since the 2nd quarter of the Temple game. No commitment to the run. Very few passes thrown to the slot and TE positions. The fade into man coverage when you have a mismatch on the outside works (e.g. Randy Moss), but not when the CBs will be drafted next April (e.g. MSU and Oklahoma). Martin's play calling was my biggest worry coming into the season and he hasn't done anything to prove me wrong. I know BK and Rees share some of the blame, but I just don't like Martin so he's getting the majority of my ridicule.


I agree with much of what you said except the bolded part. Comparing Tom Brady to Tom Rees is not a good comparison on some many levels. Aside from the fact that Tom Brady is a hall of fame quarterback in the NFL. Arm strength is a huge part of the equation. Brady can hit every throw on the field, and he has the equivalent to a PhD from Harvard in football. Rees is working on his B.A. It is unfair to compare Rees to any NFL QB let alone one of the best to ever play the game. Rees doesn't have the skillset to be an NFL QB, so why compare him? He physically can not do what's asked of him in order to keep a defense honest.

The spread vs prostyle is similar but the philosophy is a little different. The spread generates space by spreading the defense out, the prostyle generates mismatches by attacking the philosophy and fundamentals of the defense. Not to mention, as we saw during the Weis years, it can be very difficult and time consuming to teach. If we have a Michael Floyd or Tyler Eifert on our team that's physically dominant, we could use more prostyle looks as they were uniquely polished for physically and mentally for college players

Until we can keep the defense out of the box, we won't be able to run the ball. To get the defense out of the box we're going to have to be able to hit intermediate throws behind the LBs and push the secondary back. Opposing defenses dare us to try, and we can't consistently.

Just my take and opinion. Im not a coach, so take it for what its worth.

Also, MZ is left handed right? Using him as an alternate would def cause some hiccups with our Oline chemistry. Itll be interesting to see how Kelly handles the QB competition in the spring. Splitting reps with a young oline could be problematic
 

Irish Insanity

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It's hilarious that there are people on here still defending Rees and making excuses for him.

Look, nobody here thinks he's a terrible person or a bad guy. And he's a big boy and has, honestly, earned alot of the criticism that comes his way as he's had YEARS to take the starting spot. Seriously. It's been there for him to take.

But there is a reason he hasn't. Because he's not a good starting QB. He makes terrible decisions. He's a poor man's Romo without the legs. He lit up Temple...big ****ing deal. It's expected.

But UofM and OU? The ranked teams we've played? 4 TD's 5 INTS and under 50% comp....

Even MSU he wasn't any good...40% comp.


When are some of you going to get off that sinking ship? I'm sorry...but Im still not convinced he's the "best we got". We just don't know that.

If we lose next week, I think it's time to make a change.


Honestly...ASU is going to kick our ****ing asses by the way we look.

I don't think anyone is on his sinking ship. It's more that everyone feels the need to defend this years starting QB for all of the issues this team has. Rees has been the red-headed step child for many since he made his first throw at ND. As far as the INTs, I agree and disagree. BK made it a point to point out that on the one both WRs ran the wrong routes. I understand he threw the ball, but some of it involves chemistry and timing. Believing your WRs will be where they are suppose to be. Tommy is not at the top of list for reasons our record is what it is at this point, This D is far from what it was last year, the special teams haven't improved much if at all. How about the O. Without looking it up, I'm sure we gotta be averaging about the same points thru this point in the season compared to last,whereas we are obviously giving up loads more points.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Bill Connelly just published an article titled "What's wrong with Notre Dame, and where's [sic] the offense go from here?":

Brian Kelly put the attempted comeback in Rees' hands for most of the way. And again, Rees has some strengths. But the Irish went to an empty backfield 60 percent of the time on passing downs with almost no payoff whatsoever. Rees is the polar opposite of "run threat," so all 15 snaps from an empty backfield were passes. Oklahoma sent five pass rushers at Rees 10 of 15 times and had reasonable success: Rees was 4-for-10 for 64 yards and was picked twice, once for a touchdown. A third incompletion was broken up by a defensive back, another was tipped at the line, and another was overthrown by a pressured Rees. Unable to scramble effectively to buy time, Rees found his options limited and his accuracy wanting.

And on top of that, the five times where Notre Dame went to a no-back formation and Oklahoma didn't blitz, Rees went 0-for-5, throwing passes well downfield (average length: 15 yards) with tiny to nonexistent windows for success.

The point of the empty backfield for most teams is quick, easy reads with quick, easy throws. Notre Dame takes a completely different approach and got away with it with the mobile Golson last season. But this attack in no way plays to whatever strengths Rees may have and puts a ton of pressure on him to make throws he can't make. In shorter catch-and-run situations on Saturday, Notre Dame found a little bit of success. On passes thrown six or fewer yards downfield, Rees was 5-for-8 for 41 yards. He was 3-for-3 for 33 yards in such passes to T.J. Jones. But he was just 2-for-5 on passes thrown 7-10 yards downfield, and he was just 2-for-9 on passes 11 yards or longer. His receivers got no separation downfield from Oklahoma defenders (in all, nine of 16 incomplete passes were either intercepted or broken up), and when they did, Rees struggled to get the ball there.

It's hard to say what this offense will or should look like moving forward. Kelly and Martin have tinkered quite a bit thus far -- the empty backfield was far more frequent on Saturday than it had been to date -- and don't seem to know what they trust Rees to do. They frequently brought backup Andrew Hendrix in to run the Irish's variation of the Wildcat, but Hendrix has not yet proven himself a credible passing threat (for the season: 1-for-6, nine yards). And without mobility at quarterback, Notre Dame's generally aggressive, downfield approach to passing doesn't make a lot of headway without an elite receiving corps. The checkdown options are minimal, it seems.

Unless the run game becomes a more trustworthy option (and again, it looked good at times on Saturday), Notre Dame's offensive success is based solely on whether or not Irish receivers can get open downfield. They did reasonably well against Temple, Michigan, and Purdue (Rees in those games: 65-for-96, 969 yards, seven touchdowns, two interceptions), and they very much did not against Michigan State and Oklahoma (23-for-58, 246 yards, three touchdowns, three interceptions).

Like Oklahoma, Saturday's opponent Arizona State tries to get as much speed as possible onto the playing field on defense. The Sun Devils have a better pass rush (at least, they did last year but haven't really gotten it going thus far in 2013) but aren't quite as deep and precise in the secondary. They are also prone to getting gashed by runs to the outside -- Wisconsin's Melvin Gordon went for 193 yards in 15 carries, and USC's Tre Madden and Justin Davis went for 250 in 30.

Rees is likely more capable of finding success in a run-first, play-action environment than one that sends everybody wide and simply asks him to make a play. If Notre Dame can run the ball well, the Irish defense could have enough success against an Arizona State offense that is often forced to bail itself out on passing downs (and just as often succeeds at it).

But last Saturday's game plan was misguided and predictable (Need to run? Bring in Hendrix! Need to throw? Go empty!). Throw it out and start over.
 

Kanye West

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I disagree with his assessment on the receiving corps, its elite with good qb play. Our Recievers aren't the problem the routes, qb play, and playcalling are.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I disagree with his assessment on the receiving corps, its elite with good qb play. Our Recievers aren't the problem the routes, qb play, and playcalling are.

If you're trying to say that WR talent isn't holding us back, I agree. But that's not what Connelly wrote. He said we don't have an elite receiving corps, and I can't disagree with that; they got abused by the last two secondaries they faced.

You can't have an elite receiving corps without excellent route running. Our guys are talented, but sloppy route running, miscommunication and predictable play calling have hamstrung our passing attack.
 
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Luckylucci

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Run to the right, run to the left, and run up the middle. Thats my game plan for ASU.
 

Emcee77

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If you're trying to say that WR talent isn't holding us back, I agree. But that's not what Connelly wrote. He said we don't have an elite receiving corps, and I can't disagree with that; they got abused by the last two secondaries they faced.

You can't have an elite receiving corps without excellent route running. Our guys are talented, but sloppy route running, miscommunication and predictable play calling have kept them from breaking out.

Truth. We got a lot of young guys and they just aren't quite there yet.

It's also true that when we go empty backfield, Rees has got to get the ball out of his hand. That formation doesn't do anything for us if Rees holds the ball for 10 seconds. He'll either get sacked or, if they drop a lot of guys in coverage, won't be able to find a window. Gotta find a mismatch and throw it quick.
 
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Luckylucci

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Truth. We got a lot of young guys and they just aren't quite there yet.

It's also true that when we go empty backfield, Rees has got to get the ball out of his hand. That formation doesn't do anything for us if Rees holds the ball for 10 seconds. He'll either get sacked or, if they drop a lot of guys in coverage, won't be able to find a window. Gotta find a mismatch and throw it quick.

And he just doesn't have the arm talent to do that.
 

Emcee77

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Run to the right, run to the left, and run up the middle. Thats my game plan for ASU.

Yep, I agree. If you throw out the first quarter INTs, this game plan was working against OU. We fell behind and tried to stick to the game plan but then we ran out of clock. If we do the same thing and limit the turnovers, we will be ok.
 

Luckylucci

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Yep, I agree. If you throw out the first quarter INTs, this game plan was working against OU. We fell behind and tried to stick to the game plan but then we ran out of clock. If we do the same thing and limit the turnovers, we will be ok.

Thats why its frustrating how we started the game. Running looked so easy but only after we tried to throw first, haha.
 
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