Post Game Observations (Oklahoma)....

[fitz_bu47]

I'm with Irish Jayhawk, after the two turnovers I was really afraid it was going to get ugly, but the Irish gave OU all they wanted the rest of the day. Just very hard to bounce back from that start.....Especially when you have Tommy Rees. I'm sorry, I'm not a pile on guy, or a it's all one guys fault guy, but I am so tired of watching him play. I am mad at Everett I guess, b/c his mistake gave us another year of watching the most physically limited QB that has played for ND in a LONG time. I get tired of hearing how he knows the offense so well, and how heady he is and then watching him consistently stare down receivers and predetermine where he is going and forcing it into double and triple teams.

Also, not sure if the pick 6 was Tommy's fault or the o-line, but that kid showed he was coming off the edge, you have to adjust to that. OU did perfectly later when Bennett tipped he was blitzing.

Honestly, I would rather watch Hendrix, with his arm and athleticism at least he is a threat. That said, obviously the staff sees them everyday and thinks Tommy is better, and I trust them. I know Tommy came in last year and helped them win several games, and he has won a lot as a starter. Saturday his play was just gross to watch (far from the all his fault we lost, I just haven't been able to vent about his play specifically).

It's not just QB. Lost a few beasts from last year you don't easily replace---EG, Te'o, Kappy, Zeke, Spond, Nick Barrati could have helped, etc. etc.

Sorry for the ramble, if I can't do it here, can't do it anywhere. I hope Tommy bounces back, wish him nothing but the best. Go Irish.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

It's easy to forget how good Sheldon Day is when he isn't there. We really have missed him the last two weeks.

Also that helmet rule that Schwenke got called on is another dumb NCAA rule. I understand why it exists, but it is illogical for a football player to just lie down and stop playing.

 

[philipm31]

This is almost 100% false.

I said SEEMS.

And if you listen to what EVERYONE says about the defense, the approach is EXACTLY the same.

Bend don't break, keep everything in front, etc. The same exact thing he coached last year, but we do not have the same players, and the new players don't have the same strengths, so it is up to him to make adjustments, because this defensive effort is not going to come close to cutting it against USC, Stanford and ASU, just as it has not in the first five games.

So, yeah, Diaco has to do some major rethinking about his approach to defense because elite offenses shred it, and good offenses move fairly easily against it.

 

[philipm31]

It's easy to forget how good Sheldon Day is when he isn't there. We really have missed him the last two weeks.

Also that helmet rule that Schwenke got called on is another dumb NCAA rule. I understand why it exists, but it is illogical for a football player to just lie down and stop playing.

Very, very true.

And the other ejection for the "targeting rule", I understand the safety but come on, let the boys play.

 

[phgreek]

He couldn't shed blocks thrown by slot receivers. It was pathetic.

he's catchin'.


This is a nightmare to get a kid out of...a lot of things put him there. Having any doubts about your alignment and assignment. Trusting your post snap reads...anything that moves you from being read/react downhill guy at ILB puts you in a spot where you are catching blocks...even 1/4 second of delay, and at this level...you are catchin' blocks instead of taking them on and shedding...

Good news is...it is one of those deals that heals itself over time...ie things slow down for them just like a QB. And this state of being usually happens to smarter guys in my experience...he'll get there.

 

[returnofthemack]

I think there's also a tendency to look at every game from a Notre Dame perspective. If something good happens, it's because we're good. If something bad happens, it's because we're screwing up. Now, there was plenty of screwing up to notice yesterday. But, Oklahoma is good. After the first 3 minutes, we were every bit the team that they were. I was actually pretty shocked to see that.

I really don't think Oklahoma is that good. Blake Bell did not impress me. Their defense looked fairly solid, there were some mixups in coverage. They can probably get through the rest of their schedule relatively unscathed, but they'd get destroyed by one of the elite SEC teams.

 

[Buster Bluth]

And if you listen to what EVERYONE says about the defense,

Everyone, huh? 100% of people? So few people out there actually talk about real football Xs and Os, so I can't even take your statement literally.

the approach is EXACTLY the same.

So beyond stupid.

Bend don't break, keep everything in front, etc.

Mother****ers throw this out there like Diaco is cordially inviting opposing offenses into the red zone. Those sayings are about one level more advanced than "stop them from scoring" and just below "tackle well," "take correct angles." They're not even descriptive enough to legitimately criticize with the bullshit I can only assume you'll say next...

The same exact thing he coached last year,

....yep. What? Of course he would coach that.

but we do not have the same players, and the new players don't have the same strengths, so it is up to him to make adjustments,

...so last year's rarely blitz and play nonstop Cover 2 defense is back? That'd be news to me. This team blitzes soooo much more and plays more man coverage than last year. There are fewer defensive stunts, and the nickle and dime are on the field more frequently.

To say he hasn't adjusted from 2012 is just ludicrous.

because this defensive effort is not going to come close to cutting it against USC, Stanford and ASU, just as it has not in the first five games.

So, yeah, Diaco has to do some major rethinking about his approach to defense because elite offenses shred it, and good offenses move fairly easily against it.

Jumping to some major conclusions here. But I'll bite:

Oklahoma scored two touchdowns after the opening ****-ourselves-Tommy-style three minutes of the game. A broken play during which Bennett Jackson got twisted in coverage and...dare I say...didn't "keep everything in front" of him, and a short crossing route that turned into a 54-yard scamper because Grace didn't....there it is again..."keep everything in front" of him. All other Oklahoma drives ended in a punt or field goal. AKA: success.

You're really not picking up what Diaco (and all defensive-minded coaches) wants to do are you? Make them earn every yard and force offenses to run more plays consecutively to score, which more times than not leads to a mistake and a punt, turnover, or field goal. I.e., "nickle and diming down the field," force a team to go "2, 5, 4; 6, 1, 5; 3, 11; etc" instead of breaking open chunk plays.

Could he be more aggressive? Sure. I'll say this though, it's way better than last year in terms of not being too conservative. That 2012 conservativeness went up against a fully-prepared Alabama team and failed miserably, it's not happening quite like that this year.

 

[ScooterIrish]

He played his best game. But to think he turned the corner is ridiculous IMO. Great holes and a small defense. It's not like he became stronger or more agile in a week.

Who said anything about turning the corner? I pointed out how well he ran, and it was more than great holes. He made great cuts like a top RB should make. If he continues to make those cuts quickly like we saw, he will be RB1. And I personally think the last two games, he has looked a lot better than Cam.

I also want to see more Folston.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

You're really not picking up what Diaco (and all defensive-minded coaches) wants to do are you? Make them earn every yard and force offenses to run more plays consecutively to score, which more times than not leads to a mistake and a punt, turnover, or field goal. I.e., "nickle and diming down the field," force a team to go "2, 5, 4; 6, 1, 5; 3, 11; etc" instead of breaking open chunk plays.

Death by a thousand paper cuts.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The outside view:

Finally watched the game late Sunday afternoon and offer my outsider opinions.

1. More than the team getting better the coaching staff has to get better. Yes, the offense turned the ball over. But so far this season I have seen the coaching staff get outcoached in every game thus far. Leadership starts at the top and right now Kelly and Co are getting beat.

2. The offense is still way too predictable and the opposing teams are playing off that. Rees is not a top QB - we all know that - so why is he being asked to make plays he simply can not make? He is limited in his throwing capabilty but is continually put in positions - by himself or the coaches - to make throws he can not make. If it isn't fixed soon, more INTs await.

3. I have seen the rbs get in a groove two times this season. Once in an earlier game and then once against the Sooners. That's it. This RB by committee works if you have two rbs... not four or five. Get the best guys on the field and let them run the ball. Use the other two or three in special package situations. No wonder they struggle finding a groove. They aren't given the chance to get in that groove.

4. The opposing teams are taking what is the strength of the Irish defense and using it against them. The defensive line is essentially noneffective most plays because Diaco is getting outschemed by the other team's offense. Outside of Nix - and occasionally the freshman OLB - the defense is slow, predictable, and has some pretty glaring weaknesses. It should not be a surprise who is continually targeted by the opposing coaches. Why not? They are taking the one clear advantage the Irish has, using it against them, and attacking their very weaknesses. The defensive coaching staff has to get better at protecting their weak areas while learning to utilize their strengths to turn the odds in their favor.

5. Maybe it is time for the ST to adopt what a lot of other teams do. Put your best athletes out there and let them play. Yes... depth becomes an issue but the coaches should be able to play around some of that. ST are just as much about gut checks and attitudes as anything. If they are tired get them in shape. It is Irish football. Suck it up.

6. Finally, it is easy for everyone to pile on after a loss. Keep in mind, the Irish was only down one score in the early fourth. A break here or there and they could have beat the Sooners. I don't know if that is a testement to the coaches or the players... or both. With Arizona State coming up, it means the Irish are playing a team that appears to run an offense that gives the Irish some trouble. Now is the time for this coaching staff to show they have the metal aptitude to develop an effective game plan and put the Irish in a position to win. Then it becomes about execution, mistake free ball, and solid defense. Ending up 3-3 after six games should not be acceptable to the Irish nation.

 

[rocket66]

Great post T Town, and spot on, IMO.

 

[stlnd01]

Death by a thousand paper cuts.

A thousand paper cuts gives you a lot more time to force the other guy into a mistake than you get with a gunshot wound to the head.
The one really "big play" they had - the 3rd and long crossing route turned touchdown in the fourth quarter - we sold out up front and didn't have enough guys back to make the tackle. The "keep them in front of us" approach is really hard on an offense.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I really can't see us finishing better than 7-5.

 

[Patulski]

Blake Bell did not impress me.

He didn't impress you?

He was 22-30 with 2 TD passes and no interceptions.

He ran the ball 12 times for 59 yards including two 3rd down conversion runs that moved the chains.

Up 6 on the road on another 3rd down in the 4th quarter, he threw a 54 yard TD pass making it a 12 point game, then threw a 2 point conversion completion to make it a 14 point game.

He impressed me very much. He is a big, strong future NFL QB. His biggest problem at this time is that, despite an arm that can throw on a rope those 35 yard corner patterns to the wide side sideline that only NFL QB's can throw, he is still not accurate to complete that pass. That will be the biggest challenge for him when it comes to his NFL career.

 

[connect the dots]

He didn't impress you?

He was 22-30 with 2 TD passes and no interceptions.

He ran the ball 12 times for 59 yards including two 3rd down conversion runs that moved the chains.

Up 6 on the road on another 3rd down in the 4th quarter, he threw a 54 yard TD pass making it a 12 point game, then threw a 2 point conversion completion to make it a 14 point game.

He impressed me very much. He is a big, strong future NFL QB. His biggest problem at this time is that, despite an arm that can throw on a rope those 35 yard corner patterns to the wide side sideline that only NFL QB's can throw, he is still not accurate to complete that pass. That will be the biggest challenge for him when it comes to his NFL career.

Blake Bell certainly impressed Bennett Jackson. Bell, moving to his right, threw across the field, to an open receiver. Jackson left his assignment wide open, apparently believing a throw to the left endzone wasn't a fesible option for Bell.

 

[returnofthemack]

He didn't impress you?

He was 22-30 with 2 TD passes and no interceptions.

He ran the ball 12 times for 59 yards including two 3rd down conversion runs that moved the chains.

Up 6 on the road on another 3rd down in the 4th quarter, he threw a 54 yard TD pass making it a 12 point game, then threw a 2 point conversion completion to make it a 14 point game.

He impressed me very much. He is a big, strong future NFL QB. His biggest problem at this time is that, despite an arm that can throw on a rope those 35 yard corner patterns to the wide side sideline that only NFL QB's can throw, he is still not accurate to complete that pass. That will be the biggest challenge for him when it comes to his NFL career.

Tommy Rees might still be the ND career leader in pass completion %. Does that impress you? Nobody doubts Bell as a runner, he's tough and big as hell. As a passer, I did not see anything impressive. He has a strong arm, but little touch. He completed a lot of short passes that went for big gains due to our woeful LB corps. Never said he can't improve his accuracy, but he didn't really test it out against us.

 

[returnofthemack]

Blake Bell certainly impressed Bennett Jackson. Bell, moving to his right, threw across the field, to an open receiver. Jackson left his assignment wide open, apparently believing a throw to the left endzone wasn't a fesible option for Bell.

Was that the pass where Bennett did his best Gary Gray impression? I think I blocked it out of my mind haha. But still, the vast majority of Bell's completions were lateral and short passes. If he improves his accuracy, he could be amazing though.

 

[irishpat183]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say? The first INT was absolutely NOT Rees' fault. All but the most ardent anti-Rees guys would agree with that. The second one was debatable; it wasn't a good throw, but those kind of throws rarely get picked. The third INT was on Tommy.

Stop drinking.....LOL


He throws the ball, correct? He reads pre-snap coverages, correct? They are his fault.

Not ALL his fault, but the same way a WR bails out a QB on a circus catch....do we credit those to the WR only?

 

[returnofthemack]

Stop drinking.....LOL


He throws the ball, correct? He reads pre-snap coverages, correct? They are his fault.

Not ALL his fault, but the same way a WR bails out a QB on a circus catch....do we credit those to the WR only?

Throughout Rees' career we hear about he shifts the line and gets them in the right position. And he missed an obvious blitz. However, I would give him a pass on that one, because it's possible that he assumed Zach Martin, a 4-year starter, would be smart enough to pick it up. The second one is absolutely Rees' fault - it was a bad pass. He gets the credit for TJ's ridiculous TD catch against Stanford, he definitely gets the credit for an inaccurate pass going off TJ's hand and getting picked.

 

[irishpat183]

It's hilarious that there are people on here still defending Rees and making excuses for him.

Look, nobody here thinks he's a terrible person or a bad guy. And he's a big boy and has, honestly, earned alot of the criticism that comes his way as he's had YEARS to take the starting spot. Seriously. It's been there for him to take.

But there is a reason he hasn't. Because he's not a good starting QB. He makes terrible decisions. He's a poor man's Romo without the legs. He lit up Temple...big ****ing deal. It's expected.

But UofM and OU? The ranked teams we've played? 4 TD's 5 INTS and under 50% comp....

Even MSU he wasn't any good...40% comp.


When are some of you going to get off that sinking ship? I'm sorry...but Im still not convinced he's the "best we got". We just don't know that.

If we lose next week, I think it's time to make a change.


Honestly...ASU is going to kick our ****ing asses by the way we look.

 

[Emcee77]

My dad made a really interesting comparison on Saturday after the game. I know we don't all remember this far back, but he was saying that this team reminds him a lot of our 2000 10-2 Fiesta Bowl team ... great team, no quarterback.

I never thought of this program as reminiscent of the Davie years before, but it's a surprisingly good comparison if you stop and think. That was the year we started with Arnaz Battle at QB (great athlete, not a QB), Battle got hurt and we used Gary Godsey, who ultimately moved to TE, and then we ended up switching to true frosh Matt LoVecchio--who wasn't good either and eventually transferred to IU--for most of the season.

Let's just hope that Kelly does what Davie never could do and gets the offense on track.

 

[returnofthemack]

My dad made a really interesting comparison on Saturday after the game. I know we don't all remember this far back, but he was saying that this team reminds him a lot of our 2000 10-2 Fiesta Bowl team ... great team, no quarterback.

I never thought of this program as reminiscent of the Davie years before, but it's a surprisingly good comparison if you stop and think. That was the year we started with Arnaz Battle at QB (great athlete, not a QB), Battle got hurt and we used Gary Godsey, who ultimately moved to TE, and then we ended up switching to true frosh Matt LoVecchio--who wasn't good either and eventually transferred to IU--for most of the season.

Let's just hope that Kelly does what Davie never could do and gets the offense on track.

I disagree with the great team part. We have great talent at a lot of positions, but our LBs and DBs have been getting abused far too much to call ND a great team this year.

 

[phork]

It's easy to forget how good Sheldon Day is when he isn't there. We really have missed him the last two weeks.

Also that helmet rule that Schwenke got called on is another dumb NCAA rule. I understand why it exists, but it is illogical for a football player to just lie down and stop playing.

You got that right. Saw almost the exact same play in the LSU game and the boys kept the laundry in their pockets.

8-4 is best case at this point, probably 7-5 on a game we should win.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think we win that game maybe 3 of 5 times we play it. We ran over them and would have focused on the run more if we didn't get in the hole so bad. Our run game would only get stronger as the game wore on if we were able to stick to it. Then again, who made the decision to pass the ball on the first play of the game?

 

[RDU Irish]

I didn't see anything out of Hendrix to think he is any better. Not to mention he has never been able to beat out Tommy, ever. I like mixing him in there, just disappointed that he did nothing with the opportunities.

I don't understand why the staff can't put a game plan together for Tommy. They have had plenty of time and we should be able to put up plenty of points with a mediocre QB running a talent rich offense. WRs and RBs have plenty of talent and game breaking ability. Oline should be above average, if not very good. TEs, Troy is a monster to reckon with. So...... WHY IS OUR TEAM RANKED 88 IN YPG and 85 IN PPG?!?!? Oh yeah, Tommy.

Total Offense - NCAA.com
Scoring Offense - NCAA.com

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

A thousand paper cuts gives you a lot more time to force the other guy into a mistake than you get with a gunshot wound to the head.
The one really "big play" they had - the 3rd and long crossing route turned touchdown in the fourth quarter - we sold out up front and didn't have enough guys back to make the tackle. The "keep them in front of us" approach is really hard on an offense.

No doubt. I was just renaming the bend but don't break defense.

 

[rocket66]

I think we win that game maybe 3 of 5 times we play it. We ran over them and would have focused on the run more if we didn't get in the hole so bad. Our run game would only get stronger as the game wore on if we were able to stick to it. Then again, who made the decision to pass the ball on the first play of the game?

Just the value alone of having a mobile qb back there makes you wonder how much different the outcome is. Extending plays, rolling out, true read option plays, etc, etc. Sigh...

 

[ThePiombino]

It's hilarious that there are people on here still defending Rees and making excuses for him.

Look, nobody here thinks he's a terrible person or a bad guy. And he's a big boy and has, honestly, earned alot of the criticism that comes his way as he's had YEARS to take the starting spot. Seriously. It's been there for him to take.

But there is a reason he hasn't. Because he's not a good starting QB. He makes terrible decisions. He's a poor man's Romo without the legs. He lit up Temple...big ****ing deal. It's expected.

But UofM and OU? The ranked teams we've played? 4 TD's 5 INTS and under 50% comp....

Even MSU he wasn't any good...40% comp.


When are some of you going to get off that sinking ship? I'm sorry...but Im still not convinced he's the "best we got". We just don't know that.

If we lose next week, I think it's time to make a change.


Honestly...ASU is going to kick our ****ing asses by the way we look.

But we DO know that. Up until this week, the only other scholarship QB available to play was Hendrix. Hendrix has spent the past 4 years proving that he is NOT a better option than Tommy. It seems evident - BK said so himself I believe - that barring injury, MZ will preserve his redshirt. So essentially, it's between TR and AH and AH has done nothing to prove he's a better option than Tommy. Believe me, I wish he was. His skillset is MUCH better suited to run this offense.

 

[Ndaccountant]

IMO, outside of the obvious turnovers, this game was decided on one thing.....which QB was a threat to run.

I was at the game and watched both defenses line up and adjust pre-snap. ND was getting beat on the WR screens and swing passes because of the run. The safeties and OLB's couldn't sell out like OU could. Plus, OU had all 11 guys within 11 yards of the LOS when there was a RB in the backfield. There was at least a half dozen times OU would bring pressure off the edge (great game plan on their part BTW, really made it hard on Tommy) and Tommy could have ran for 5 yards up the gut. He just didn't do it.

I can't help but think back to last year's OU game and what EG was able to do with his feet. I feel like OU did the exact same thing this past weekend and we just didn't have a guy back there that could take advantage.

 

[irishpat183]

But we DO know that. Up until this week, the only other scholarship QB available to play was Hendrix. Hendrix has spent the past 4 years proving that he is NOT a better option than Tommy. It seems evident - BK said so himself I believe - that barring injury, MZ will preserve his redshirt. So essentially, it's between TR and AH and AH has done nothing to prove he's a better option than Tommy. Believe me, I wish he was. His skillset is MUCH better suited to run this offense.

If we lose to AZST....I say start AH (especially if Tommy plays poorly). Seriously.

At least he gives you SOME athleticism. Let him start a game and see what he's got for 4 quarters.