Post Game Observations (MSU '16)

[Irish Insanity]

I respect Cole Luke and I think he has had a very good career at Notre Dame.

I have no idea what happened to him last night. I have no idea how he miss timed his jump, did not pick that pass off and let Corley catch that TD.

Everything just went wrong for the team last night and everything went wrong for Cole Luke last night.

Hope he bounces back and has a great senior year.


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Possibly the pressure of knowing he's about the only one on the back end. I mean it's him w/ experience and a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off.

 

[5thHorseman]

Here I was all bummed out that may wife had been hosting a party Saturday night and sneaking off for football was absolutely a big " Hell No". Saw Final score and thought...We gave up more points than Furman did the week before. Came to IE to get the scoop. You guys are great!

 

[Downinthebend]

Kizer gets negative zero blame for this loss. Winning 8-9 games will keep him on the team next year though.

fam thats still a zero

 

[maineman]

I was thinking during our last possession, had we gone for it on 4th down successfully and drove the field for a TD, what would have been the play call on the 2 point conversion? How about Kizer on a keeper? What would have been the best option? Would it have worked or left us with an even more heartbreaking 2 point loss?

 

[Downinthebend]

I was thinking during our last possession, had we gone for it on 4th down successfully and drove the field for a TD, what would have been the play call on the 2 point conversion? How about Kizer on a keeper? What would have been the best option? Would it have worked or left us with an even more heartbreaking 2 point loss?

qb midline power read of Malik McDowell.

without hesitation.

edit:

this play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGmsB1meGjI

 

[Sherm Sticky]

qb midline power read of Malik McDowell.

without hesitation.

edit:

this play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGmsB1meGjI

That's a name we should have heard more of last night...Dexter Williams.


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[BGIF]

I respect Cole Luke and I think he has had a very good career at Notre Dame.

I have no idea what happened to him last night. I have no idea how he miss timed his jump, did not pick that pass off and let Corley catch that TD.

Everything just went wrong for the team last night and everything went wrong for Cole Luke last night.

Hope he bounces back and has a great senior year.

I know what happened on that play. It's the kind of play that makes Play of The Day clips. You've probably seen it before. It's not that rare.

I saw Derrick Mayes do the exact same thing and Notre Dame fans were delirious about what a fantastic play it was to see him pick the pocket of a CB who had just made a good play. "Grabbing victory from the jaws of defeat!"

In both turnaround situations the defender went up in the air and snagged the ball with extended arms. In each case the taller receiver was behind the CB, got a hand under the ball, then jerked upward and backward while the CB was trying to bring the ball into his body. Donnie Corley, like Mayes, had the advantage of being behind the CB getting a complete picture of the both Luke AND the ball. Luke was focused solely on the ball.

It was a good play by Luke. It was a great play by Corley who had the advantages of 3 or 4 inches in height and vision (the whole play in front of him).

It wasn't Luke's best game but the outrage over this play is misplaced.

 

[Butchie]

Again did you watch the game? Did you see the turnover on the punt? Did you see the fumble? Did you see all the 3 and outs? Our D was playing very well until the Offense/Special Teams shit the bed. Shockingly if you keep the D on the field for a long time they eventually fall apart. Horror. Could our D have played better, damn right. But this loss was on the Kelly and the play calling not on BVG no matter how much you and many others want it to be.

Dude! We've put up 47pts., 39pts., & 28pts. & have one win. WTF. The O may have consistency issues, but our starting point for righting the ship is not the offense. And let's not forget these are not Louisville type offenses - they're average offenses.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Here I was all bummed out that may wife had been hosting a party Saturday night and sneaking off for football was absolutely a big " Hell No". Saw Final score and thought...We gave up more points than Furman did the week before. Came to IE to get the scoop. You guys are great!

Your wife did you a huge favor...

 

[ScooterIrish]

Our oline has always been average against physical DLs. This isn't news.

 

[NDohio]

Our stud QB looked pretty shaky throwing the ball in the first half. I'm not saying he isn't a stud, but Kelly obviously knows how to handle Kizer.

First Quarter

14:37 - Completed Pass
13:30 - Hit receiver in hands - dropped
13:24 - Obvious PI that wasn't called
13:20 - Flushed from the pocket and threw it away


6:06 - Completed Pass
5:04 - Completed Pass
4:45 - Completed Pass
4:08 - Bad Throw - Incomplete

Second Quarter

13:30 - Sacked
12:45 - Sacked


9:29 - Completed Pass - fumble lost


7:40 - Completed Pass


:43 - Completed Pass
:05 - Completed Pass
:00 - Incomplete Hail Mary(That the receiver had his hands on)


I don't think that looks like a shaky first half...

 

[ulukinatme]

Dude! We've put up 47pts., 39pts., & 28pts. & have one win. WTF. The O may have consistency issues, but our starting point for righting the ship is not the offense. And let's not forget these are not Louisville type offenses - they're average offenses.

I think we can say that Texas has a decent offense this year. They have the same problem we do though, defense.

Sadly, BVG is probably going to come up roses in the next three games since we're playing Duke, NC St, and Syracuse. If the defense drops the ball again against Stanford, I don't see how he gets retained come the end of the year...if he isn't already a dead man walking.

 

[kmoose]

First Quarter

14:37 - Completed Pass
13:30 - Hit receiver in hands - dropped
13:24 - Obvious PI that wasn't called
13:20 - Flushed from the pocket and threw it away


6:06 - Completed Pass
5:04 - Completed Pass
4:45 - Completed Pass
4:08 - Bad Throw - Incomplete

Second Quarter

13:30 - Sacked
12:45 - Sacked


9:29 - Completed Pass - fumble lost


7:40 - Completed Pass


:43 - Completed Pass
:05 - Completed Pass
:00 - Incomplete Hail Mary(That the receiver had his hands on)


I don't think that looks like a shaky first half...

Like I said... I wasn't able to focus on the game. I was with a friend and her family who are not big football people. The game was on, but in the background, so I could very well have missed some important information. It just seemed like every time I looked up, he was throwing balls that just weren't accurate. Even some of the completions I thought he looked like he was just not "right".

 

[tussin]

This is how you lose football games.

The last 3rd down conversion to win the game pissed me off more than the Luke play. At least Luke was in position to make a play, and something weird happened and he just didn't. That sucks, but, as a mediocre former athlete, I can understand it.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how this defense lets someone get WIDE open on the most important play of the season. That play was an indictment of the entire BVG era. Inexcusable.

 

[NDRock]

The last 3rd down conversion to win the game pissed me off more than the Luke play. At least Luke was in position to make a play, and something weird happened and he just didn't. That sucks, but, as a mediocre former athlete, I can understand it.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how this defense let's someone get WIDE open on the most important play of the season. That play was an indictment of the entire BVG era. Inexcusable.

I prefer the 27 yard pass completion with 15 seconds left against Stanford, but yours is good also.

 

[IrishLax]

The last 3rd down conversion to win the game pissed me off more than the Luke play. At least Luke was in position to make a play, and something weird happened and he just didn't. That sucks, but, as a mediocre former athlete, I can understand it.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how this defense lets someone get WIDE open on the most important play of the season. That play was an indictment of the entire BVG era. Inexcusable.

The irony of all that was that BVG was calling zone coverage because we've had so many issues playing man... and then a senior completely blows his coverage responsibility.

Best coverage of the night was a TRUE FROSH DEFENSIVE END reading a play correctly on a zone blitz and running step-for-step with a would be pass catcher in order to break up the play. What a time to be alive.

 

[NDohio]

The irony of all that was that BVG was calling zone coverage because we've had so many issues playing man... and then a senior completely blows his coverage responsibility.

Best coverage of the night was a TRUE FROSH DEFENSIVE END reading a play correctly on a zone blitz and running step-for-step with a would be pass catcher in order to break up the play. What a time to be alive.

That was an amazing play. Then in the 3th Qtr Trumbetti tried to make the same play and the result was a first down MSU. Ugh...

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The irony of all that was that BVG was calling zone coverage because we've had so many issues playing man... and then a senior completely blows his coverage responsibility.

Best coverage of the night was a TRUE FROSH DEFENSIVE END reading a play correctly on a zone blitz and running step-for-step with a would be pass catcher in order to break up the play. What a time to be alive.

This was a hell of a play.

Regarding DEs in coverage: I asked Pete Sampson this on twitter and he must not have had time respond (or it's a dumb question)...but I know BVG is notorious for dropping DEs in coverage. I noticed three different times in obvious passing downs, the DE was the one in coverage, making the tackle. Do other DCs do this? It seems so bizarre to me and (w/o any statistical evidence to support my opinion) seems to bite us more often than not.

What's the scoop here?

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think that defensive display showed the deficiencies in recruiting pass rushers and defensive backs have been over the years. On top of the only legitimately good upperclassmen CB having the mother of all bad games.

Whoever the new DC is, he'll have a lot more to work with moving forward at those two spots. So there's that.

 

[Crazy Balki]

This was a hell of a play.

Regarding DEs in coverage: I asked Pete Sampson this on twitter and he must not have had time respond (or it's a dumb question)...but I know BVG is notorious for dropping DEs in coverage. I noticed three different times in obvious passing downs, the DE was the one in coverage, making the tackle. Do other DCs do this? It seems so bizarre to me and (w/o any statistical evidence to support my opinion) seems to bite us more often than not.

What's the scoop here?

Dropping DE's into coverage is fairly common, but not usually on obvious passing downs. That being said, most teams have legitimate pass rushing threats at that spot. We do not. Not yet at least. I simply haven't seen it from Hayes (Daelin) and Okwara. They're still not quite there, and Trumbetti provides zero pass rushing ability and zero ability to set the edge. Jay is probably still hurt. Can't think of any other reason as to why he hasn't played as much.

 

[ulukinatme]

This was a hell of a play.

Regarding DEs in coverage: I asked Pete Sampson this on twitter and he must not have had time respond (or it's a dumb question)...but I know BVG is notorious for dropping DEs in coverage. I noticed three different times in obvious passing downs, the DE was the one in coverage, making the tackle. Do other DCs do this? It seems so bizarre to me and (w/o any statistical evidence to support my opinion) seems to bite us more often than not.

What's the scoop here?

BVG is just testing the waters. He hopes to implement his new defense any day now where he drops 4 DL into coverage and rushes the secondary instead. Complete role reversal!

 

[IrishLax]

Last thing I'll say and then I'm seriously done posting about this abomination of a game...

This isn't an excuse for BVG, because the proof is in the pudding, but I think losing Redfield and Crawford has crushed any hope of the defense being competent. Our SS position is a traffic cone in coverage. We're stuck playing a ton of zone when I'd bet anything the plan pre-season against teams like MSU was to play man with confidence in Crawford/Luke and aggressively attack. Not having Redfield to flop to SS on passing downs with Studstill at FS is crushing.

With the exception of the jump ball Luke lost, almost all the passing plays we gave up were to wide open guys in vacated zones. And then realize that the reason we're not getting pressure is that the LB blitzes which actually worked against pro style teams in early 2014 when we had a healthy roster aren't even being sent because we're asking the LBs to play zone.

This team is basically playing like the end of 2014 squad after injuries decimated the team and we were shredded by even terrible squads like Northwestern. We can't stop the run except when we sell out, which then exposes us to huge passing plays. We can't stop the pass, because even if we don't sell out our back end can't cover and our front four NEVER gets home. At this point he might as well line up everyone man-to-man on 3rd down and bring a bunch of zero blitzes and pray because that's the only thing we haven't tried yet.

 

[NDohio]

Our stud QB looked pretty shaky throwing the ball in the first half. I'm not saying he isn't a stud, but Kelly obviously knows how to handle Kizer.

Like I said... I wasn't able to focus on the game. I was with a friend and her family who are not big football people. The game was on, but in the background, so I could very well have missed some important information. It just seemed like every time I looked up, he was throwing balls that just weren't accurate. Even some of the completions I thought he looked like he was just not "right".

IMO Kizer looked fine. Put the offense on his back and let's go.

 

[Armyirish47]

Most of this game has been covered thoroughly, but I'll add my 2 cents.

I was angry during the first half, but by the end of the game I was really just disappointed. Such a blown opportunity on a weekend full of upsets above us. Kelly was accurate when he said the team was sloppy. This team has the talent to be excellent, earlier questions about athleticism seem overstated. The failures boil down to leadership, from the coaching staff to the players.

If this is BVG's last rodeo, I don't think the cupboard is bare, at all, but the next hire must at least keep the bones of the system in place. Kelly does not have time to transition again.

The crazy thing is, I still think this team wins 9 games because Kizer is so good. Hopefully the team switches into desperation mode full time and some leadership emerges.

My hope boils down to:
1. Go 9 - 3
2. Win bowl game
3. New DC
4. Profit!

 

[IrishLax]

This was a hell of a play.

Regarding DEs in coverage: I asked Pete Sampson this on twitter and he must not have had time respond (or it's a dumb question)...but I know BVG is notorious for dropping DEs in coverage. I noticed three different times in obvious passing downs, the DE was the one in coverage, making the tackle. Do other DCs do this? It seems so bizarre to me and (w/o any statistical evidence to support my opinion) seems to bite us more often than not.

What's the scoop here?

Pro teams do it a ton. It's about confusing the OL and the QB with the zone blitz to get them to make a mistake. Problem is other guys don't get home, and if you give the QB enough time the DE basically becomes worthless in that coverage. They're only valuable for about 1-2 where they take away a passing lane. So I really don't understand BVG continuing to call zone blitzes when it never works.*

*Besides with Daelin Hayes.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Last thing I'll say and then I'm seriously done posting about this abomination of a game...

This isn't an excuse for BVG, because the proof is in the pudding, but I think losing Redfield and Crawford has crushed any hope of the defense being competent. Our SS position is a traffic cone in coverage. We're stuck playing a ton of zone when I'd bet anything the plan pre-season against teams like MSU was to play man with confidence in Crawford/Luke and aggressively attack. Not having Redfield to flop to SS on passing downs with Studstill at FS is crushing.

With the exception of the jump ball Luke lost, almost all the passing plays we gave up were to wide open guys in vacated zones. And then realize that the reason we're not getting pressure is that the LB blitzes which actually worked against pro style teams in early 2014 when we had a healthy roster aren't even being sent because we're asking the LBs to play zone.

This team is basically playing like the end of 2014 squad after injuries decimated the team and we were shredded by even terrible squads like Northwestern. We can't stop the run except when we sell out, which then exposes us to huge passing plays. We can't stop the pass, because even if we don't sell out our back end can't cover and our front four NEVER gets home. At this point he might as well line up everyone man-to-man on 3rd down and bring a bunch of zero blitzes and pray because that's the only thing we haven't tried yet.

This could be a long season...

 

[koonja]

If you're BK do you wait until after Stanford to 1) further justify the firing (probably not necessary), 2) Have the bi-week after to adjust, and 3) Not to put the new guy in a spot to get worked by Stanford?

Or just keep him forever because.

 

[kmoose]

If you're BK do you wait until after Stanford to 1) further justify the firing (probably not necessary), 2) Have the bi-week after to adjust, and 3) Not to put the new guy in a spot to get worked by Stanford?

Or just keep him forever because.

What is a bi-week, and do we need to build ANOTHER bathroom, now?

 

[ulukinatme]

If you're BK do you wait until after Stanford to 1) further justify the firing (probably not necessary), 2) Have the bi-week after to adjust, and 3) Not to put the new guy in a spot to get worked by Stanford?

Or just keep him forever because.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Pro teams do it a ton. It's about confusing the OL and the QB with the zone blitz to get them to make a mistake. Problem is other guys don't get home, and if you give the QB enough time the DE basically becomes worthless in that coverage. They're only valuable for about 1-2 where they take away a passing lane. So I really don't understand BVG continuing to call zone blitzes when it never works.*

*Besides with Daelin Hayes.

Thanks.

I guess I get the point of it. But the pros and ND are not equal. And like you said, we don't have the guys up front that can get to the QB while the other DEs are out in coverage. Seems like a wasted play call. If it's not working, by all means, lets keep doing it though.