Post Game: Cincinatti

[Dale]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/tjamesndi/status/1445142281464516618?s=21[/TWEET]

BS

 

[Dale]

Have thought all season our DL has been getting held. You guys just got a sack/TFL you don’t need a holding too line of thinking. Same as Gronk getting mauled most of his career

 

[Whiskeyjack]

 

[Luckylucci]

Yup. I think we'll drop one more random game, but finish 10-2 with a win over Texas in a NY6 bowl.

Losing to Cinci sucks because it could have been avoided by better decisions by the coaching staff, but it doesn't change much in the big scheme of things. If you had offered me 10-2 with a good bowl win and a strong recruiting finish in August, I'd have taken it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Would you rather lose a game where you felt like this? Or, would you rather lose a game where you felt like you didn't have the talent to win?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Would you rather lose a game where you felt like this? Or, would you rather lose a game where you felt like you didn't have the talent to win?

Losing to 'Bama doesn't feel as bad because no one really expects us to be competitive with them. Losing to Cinci is more frustrating because it was winnable, but it's much easier to "fix" these issues mid-season than our talent differential with the Tide, and it also doesn't change much in the big scheme of things since this was a rebuilding year anyway.

I just want: (1) to secure at least 10 wins; and (2) to be building for the future instead of wasting reps on guys who have no chance to raising our ceiling to the next level.

 

[Redbar]

Would you rather lose a game where you felt like this? Or, would you rather lose a game where you felt like you didn't have the talent to win?

100% I would rather lose when I didn’t have the talent to win. Losing because you can’t get out of your own way as coaches and then down the line to players is worse for me.

 

[ThePiombino]

100% I would rather lose when I didn’t have the talent to win. Losing because you can’t get out of your own way as coaches and then down the line to players is worse for me.

This. 100% this.

 

[Irish#1]

I just don't see the speed or the hands.
If you are right it means he has got his act together for the last 7 or 8 games so I hope you are right.

Agree Austin may have the physical traits, but he hasn’t demonstrated any of the skills required to play in the NFL. The landscape is littered with guys who had the physical traits but lack the elite skills.

 

[ND88]

Agree Austin may have the physical traits, but he hasn’t demonstrated any of the skills required to play in the NFL. The landscape is littered with guys who had the physical traits but lack the elite skills.

I would argue he hasn’t demonstrated them consistently. I think his lack of experience is coming back to haunt him. It just so happens that some of his mistakes have happened at critical junctures in the game. I’m not ready to shut down his NFL chances quite yet, but he has some big hurdles to overcome if he wants to declare after this season.

 

[irishff1014]

Losing to 'Bama doesn't feel as bad because no one really expects us to be competitive with them. Losing to Cinci is more frustrating because it was winnable, but it's much easier to "fix" these issues mid-season than our talent differential with the Tide, and it also doesn't change much in the big scheme of things since this was a rebuilding year anyway.

I just want: (1) to secure at least 10 wins; and (2) to be building for the future instead of wasting reps on guys who have no chance to raising our ceiling to the next level.

Whiskey is right. It’s one thing to get beat by a better and more talented team. It’s not ok to lose to a team that’s not as talented or get out coached.

 

[ACamp1900]

Whiskey is right. It’s one thing to get beat by a better and more talented team. It’s not ok to lose to a team that’s not as talented or get out coached.

I get all this and don’t disagree but I mean teams lose,… it wasn’t the loss so much as all the dynamics that played into it,… QB, OLine, staff, all the things we’ve been collectively bemoaning. It’s just very concerning at this stage in BKs career. At least that’s where I am,… this was a year two or three scenario, not something you’d expect a dozen years in.

 

[NDFAN420]

I get all this and don’t disagree but I mean teams lose,… it wasn’t the loss so much as all the dynamics that played into it,… QB, OLine, staff, all the things we’ve been collectively bemoaning. It’s just very concerning at this stage in BKs career. At least that’s where I am,… this was a year two or three scenario, not something you’d expect a dozen years in.

Every few years, these same exact posts come back and for very good reason. We've almost all written it or something like it. So is the ND Admin Lucy and we are Charlie Brown? Is Lucy BK to our Charlie Brown? Ahhhh trick question, it's BOTH!

 

[Irishize]

I just don't see the speed or the hands.
If you are right it means he has got his act together for the last 7 or 8 games so I hope you are right.

I’m with you. If he maintains the same amount of drops, he’ll be on the sideline and off the NFL radar. I’ve seen better hands on a clock.

Word on Lenzy is his plan was for this to be his final year. He’s delusional IMO. Speed is fine but no way has he proven himself to have the hands to be an NFL receiver.

 

[Irishize]

Tend to agree. I thnk the kick in the balls is that it was a winnable game at home against a top 10 team. And they probably would have won if Pyne starts.

I'd consider the season a success if they can finish 11-1 or 10-2 and win a good bowl game.

Sincere question: What makes you (and most fans & ND writers) believe this is a 10-2 (at worst) team? I get the defense, it’s worthy and looks to be improving. The offense is pure trash. Look at the four wins and tell me which was is impressive enough to give you confidence that they only lose one out of their next seven.

I listened to Irish Illustrated pod today & Prister gave me the impression that there’s no way ND could sink to 6-6. O’Malley seemed to think since they already have 4 wins, it’s silly to think they’ll only win two more. Maybe but I remember a bunch of close losses to trash teams in 2016 as well. Back then, ND had the offense but lacked the D to hold a lead. Now, ND doesn’t have an offense that can get them a lead. I’d be thrilled w/ 10-2 knowing full well that they’d have no wins over ranked teams but after five games watching this offense, I think that’s a stretch.

 

[Wild Bill]

Sincere question: What makes you (and most fans & ND writers) believe this is a 10-2 (at worst) team? I get the defense, it’s worthy and looks to be improving. The offense is pure trash. Look at the four wins and tell me which was is impressive enough to give you confidence that they only lose one out of their next seven.

I listened to Irish Illustrated pod today & Prister gave me the impression that there’s no way ND could sink to 6-6. O’Malley seemed to think since they already have 4 wins, it’s silly to think they’ll only win two more. Maybe but I remember a bunch of close losses to trash teams in 2016 as well. Back then, ND had the offense but lacked the D to hold a lead. Now, ND doesn’t have an offense that can get them a lead. I’d be thrilled w/ 10-2 knowing full well that they’d have no wins over ranked teams but after five games watching this offense, I think that’s a stretch.

I don't consider it a given they'll win 10 games. I said I'd consider it a success if they did and got a win in a decent bowl.

​​​​​​The team has some holes but so does every other team not named bama. I don't think we have another ranked opponent left on the schedule. Maybe we'll lose them all. Maybe we won't. We'll see.

 

[IrishLax]

Sincere question: What makes you (and most fans & ND writers) believe this is a 10-2 (at worst) team? I get the defense, it’s worthy and looks to be improving. The offense is pure trash. Look at the four wins and tell me which was is impressive enough to give you confidence that they only lose one out of their next seven.

I listened to Irish Illustrated pod today & Prister gave me the impression that there’s no way ND could sink to 6-6. O’Malley seemed to think since they already have 4 wins, it’s silly to think they’ll only win two more. Maybe but I remember a bunch of close losses to trash teams in 2016 as well. Back then, ND had the offense but lacked the D to hold a lead. Now, ND doesn’t have an offense that can get them a lead. I’d be thrilled w/ 10-2 knowing full well that they’d have no wins over ranked teams but after five games watching this offense, I think that’s a stretch.

My main concern would be stacking injuries. We've already had a shit show at left tackle, what if Patterson gets hurt? Or Hamilton? Or Mayer has to miss significant time?

ND is not going to lose to Navy, and will be a sizable favorite over UVA and Georgia Tech. They will be a moderate favorite over Stanford and USC, and probably a pick 'em with VT and UNC. All these fucking teams have byes before we play them.

I think it's reasonable that ND could go 8-4, or if injuries rear their ugly head they could finish worse than that. The most likely scenario is likely 9-3 losing two of VT, USC, UNC, and Stanford.

 

[T-Boone]

Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

Kizer in 2015 and 16 might have got us much closer last year.
Tommy should just have to reapply for the job and BK should take the best OC available. If that is Tommy (it is not ) then fine.

 

[Irish#1]

I would argue he hasn’t demonstrated them consistently. I think his lack of experience is coming back to haunt him. It just so happens that some of his mistakes have happened at critical junctures in the game. I’m not ready to shut down his NFL chances quite yet, but he has some big hurdles to overcome if he wants to declare after this season.

Well consistency is one of the skills required to play in the NFL. I do agree that his lack of experience is hurting him. If he does decide to come back, I could see a marked improvement as he would have a season under his belt to reference during the offseason if you know what I mean.

 

[RDU Irish]

Lenzy and Austin are not NFL WRs right now. They need to worry about the next play infinitely more than their combine if they want that option on the table. Do either of them run good routes and get open consistently? With Mayer their job should be a lot easier but I feel they need eight seconds to finally get separation. I don't think I have ever seen Lenzy catch a ball with his hands. And they both lack experience b/c they are always hurt - Mayer made plays with his groin laying on the ground for comparison. They both need to work on their craft, finish the season to prove some durability and look to be dominant in 2022 if they want to be NFL WRs.

As for finishing the season - a stout defense is more reliable than outscoring your opponents 45-42. They will absolutely thrash most of these unranked opponents defensively - this is a legit Top 10 defense. I also have seen enough of Pyne to expect a lot less than 37% 3&Outs which helps said defense. We have talent all over the field and on the bench that vastly exceeds every team left on the schedule which should amount to winning more 1 on 1 battles on every play. I will gladly take some growing pains if it means younger talent is growing.

The big Q is turnovers - with a larger sample size does Pyne turn it over more? I mean Coan was supposed to be the experienced guy and has thrown a number of debilitating headscratchers. Toledo Pick 6 anyone? That is where we will lose another game or two that we shouldn't - losing TO battle to someone who has no business being on the same field as us.

 

[irishtrain]

Cinn was pretty mouthy and this is a Notre dame team in distress-Cinn will not win the rest of their games-talent discipline not there plus there not that good- same classy game Notre dame team just without Book and o line strength-Cinn imop will not go undefeated in regular season-they only beat a #20-25 team in the country at this point in the season- that may change if QB situation is straightened out and o line comes together-not too impressed with Cinn-by the way officials in that game had a very poor day the honey moon is over with ACC officials if that was who they were.

 

[Luckylucci]

Rewatch Notes | Notre Dame Defense vs Cincinnati | Irish Sports Daily

I'm kind of surprised it took so long but we finally have one of the ND analysts discussing the bizarre personnel choices with the Dollar package. The concept of the Dollar package doesn't bother me but the personnel choices have. And, I've been saying that since FSU.

 

[zelezo vlk]

We were told it wasnt a problem that Foskey was rushing from linebacker instead of on the line lol

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[T-Boone]

There is a lot of negative talk about Freeman's 3 man front...but he must like it.
Can someone explain in layman's terms what it is that he must like about it?

 

[Luckylucci]

There is a lot of negative talk about Freeman's 3 man front...but he must like it.
Can someone explain in layman's terms what it is that he must like about it?

I think in general it's a keep the points down, ball in front of you, make them work for it type of scheme. The 3-3-5 has actually become somewhat popular in college football. Campbell and ISU run it pretty effectively in the Big12. There were actually multiple coaches that were on folks radar for the DC position, that run it, if Freeman hadn't taken the job.

And, I have no problems with the scheme. It's that if we're going to run it, I'd like to see them adjust the personnel to it. Because right now, it's a square peg/round hole situation.

I can see the merits in what he's trying to do. He's trying to get these players to be able to execute this. So, in the future they can seamlessly transition from 3 to 4 down without having to sub. But, similarly to the discussions we're having around the offense. It's not working so I would think you'd put it away or make the changes for the top 10 matchup. Especially when the offense is such a dumpster fire.

 

[ACamp1900]

For whatever it’s worth, from the high school level,… From a front seven aspect you trade beef (literally) for confusion and optimally speed. I was a defensive coach some while back and we used a lot of three man fronts (not in a traditional 3-4) when we were massively undersized there for a few years so yeah. The idea was to bring as many different looks as possible from those not engaged at the line from the snap, both in coverage and in blitzes, prioritizing big play potential. Undersized isn’t the issue here of course but I would still assume Freeman is coming from like mindedness but I haven’t studied any of his schemes tape wise so who knows.

 

[Dale]

If the choice is Foskey giving up a 20 yard pass or Bertrand giving up a 20 yard pass I’m not sure the formation makes much of a difference.

I questioned Ridder’s ability before the game. And I still think he doesn’t quite have the talent to get the praise he’s gotten but he is also CLEARLY better pre-snap than any of our QBs and then I gave him credit for. I already cited his TTT. This is the coverage breakdown of Pierce and the TE Taylor or burned us all day.

Pierce
vs Lewis - 5 targets, 3 catches
vs Bertrand - 3 targets, 3 catches

Taylor
vs. Bertrand - 4 targets, 3 catches
vs. Foskey - 1 target, 1 catch

No I didn’t leave off targets vs Hart or Hamilton or Bracy or Griffith. He literally only threw at the above. That’s clear weakness recognition pre-snap. So I don’t blame the 3-2-6 or 3-3-5 and their usage. I see a team that has no confidence in most of their DBs to be on the field and a third string LB.

The run fits I cannot speak to the effect it may be having there

 

[NorthDakota]

For whatever it’s worth, from the high school level,… From a front seven aspect you trade beef (literally) for confusion and optimally speed. I was a defensive coach some while back and we used a lot of three man fronts (not in a traditional 3-4) when we were massively undersized there for a few years so yeah. The idea was to bring as many different looks as possible from those not engaged at the line from the snap, both in coverage and in blitzes, prioritizing big play potential. Undersized isn’t the issue here of course but I would still assume Freeman is coming from like mindedness but I haven’t studied any of his schemes tape wise so who knows.

When I was in high school, most of the teams in the area ran a 3-5 front because most schools did not have an abundance of big guys (specially since high school football involves so much two-way players), but there was an abundance of DB/LB types.

 

[Irish#1]

I think in general it's a keep the points down, ball in front of you, make them work for it type of scheme. The 3-3-5 has actually become somewhat popular in college football. Campbell and ISU run it pretty effectively in the Big12. There were actually multiple coaches that were on folks radar for the DC position, that run it, if Freeman hadn't taken the job.

And, I have no problems with the scheme. It's that if we're going to run it, I'd like to see them adjust the personnel to it. Because right now, it's a square peg/round hole situation.

I can see the merits in what he's trying to do. He's trying to get these players to be able to execute this. So, in the future they can seamlessly transition from 3 to 4 down without having to sub. But, similarly to the discussions we're having around the offense. It's not working so I would think you'd put it away or make the changes for the top 10 matchup. Especially when the offense is such a dumpster fire.

Lea’s D was more of making them work for it. Freeman’s is a disruptive D looking to create negative plays and turnovers.

 

[Luckylucci]

Lea’s D was more of making them work for it. Freeman’s is a disruptive D looking to create negative plays and turnovers.

That kind of all blended together but the first paragraph is talking in generalities about the idea behind 3-3-5 defenses. They’re meant to combat spread offenses and to deal with space and speed. I wasn’t intending to comment on how aggressive Freeman, specifically, would be out of it. Though he actually hasn’t been all that much for what it’s worth. But, we don’t have a very large sample size either.

 

[allenm5333]

In my opinion, Lea's Defense would be better for the offense we have this year. We cannot score a lot, so better to bend and not break. However, Freemen's D will be better suited if we continue to modernize our O and try to become higher scoring

Lea’s D was more of making them work for it. Freeman’s is a disruptive D looking to create negative plays and turnovers.