Post Game Assumptions(Air Force)...

[ThePiombino]

Then for his high ranking among ND's elite QBs in personal performance (Accuracy, TDs, YDs, Efficiency) and TEAM performance, he's the most successful space filler in history.

Only QB in ND history to throw 5 TDs in a game to 5 different players, 2 of which caught their FIRST TD PASS. Incredible for a QB that "locks" unto one favorite receiver and doesn't recongize anyone others on the field.

In all ND game only one QB in one game has thrown 6 TDs. That was Quinn who has a CAREER Completion % of 58. Three points below Rees's CAREER 61%.



If the words "space filler" appeared in the Word Association Thread, "IrishPat" would be the #1 response.

Could just end the argument right there. You're both right.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Well played.



You're singling out a game against the ****ING AIR FORCE ACADEMY.

I rest my case.

Tommy is...
25th in the country in passing yards.
7th in the country in TDs.

And wasn't it you who was just complaining about how we can't run?

You can't have it both ways, buddy.

 

[irishpat183]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. You don't even approach that.


Pat the more you post the more obvious it becomes how little you know about ND football.

I wonder how many other writers and sports reporters out there share the same feeling about Tommy? I mean, if he's so damn good, he should be at the top of the heisman lists!?!? He's setting all these ND passing records.

I'll let you spearhead the campaign along with the other "experts" on IE. Obviously.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I wonder how many other writers and sports reporters out there share the same feeling about Tommy? I mean, if he's so damn good, he should be at the top of the heisman lists!?!? He's setting all these ND passing records.

I'll let you spearhead the campaign along with the other "experts" on IE. Obviously.

I've never heard anyone make those types of claims about him. You, on the other hand, are ignoring all of his production because it doesn't match your narrative. He's been very productive and has won a lot of games. He's not elite, but he's far from being a place-holder.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

He's definitely cut down on his turnovers, which has helped immensely. But the line between "not-elite" and "placeholder" can be pretty narrow, depending on your perspective.

 

[irishpat183]

Tommy is...
25th in the country in passing yards.
7th in the country in TDs.

And wasn't it you who was just complaining about how we can't run?

You can't have it both ways, buddy.

Against UM and OU and MSU....How'd he do? 5 INT's, 5 TD's and a whopping 44% CMP. AZ state, while he had some success...he was very inaccurate.

Against the other games on our schedule, he lit it up...as he should.

I'm sorry, he is great agasint Air Force and Temple. But when he plays UM, OU, and MSU?? He wasn't very good.

He doesn't play well against good teams. He's a fraud. Even in 2011, his other decent year...He took a total **** against FSU, Stan, USC and UM.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

He's definitely cut down on his turnovers, which has helped immensely. But the line between "not-elite" and "placeholder" can be pretty narrow, depending on your perspective.

I think that's a fair point. Some of this is just semantics.

Tommy has been put in horrible positions for his entire career. All in all, he's been way better than most would have ever expected.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Against UM and OU and MSU....How'd he do? 5 INT's, 5 TD's and a whopping 44% CMP. AZ state, while he had some success...he was very inaccurate.

Against the other games on our schedule, he lit it up...as he should.

I'm sorry, he is great agasint Air Force and Temple. But when he plays UM, OU, and MSU?? He wasn't very good.

He doesn't play well against good teams. He's a fraud. Even in 2011, his other decent year...He took a total **** against FSU, Stan, USC and UM.

Fair points. But without him, this program would be miles behind where it currently is.

Weren't you the guy claiming that Goff was a top 5 QB? How's that working out?

 

[IrishLion]

Against UM and OU and MSU....How'd he do? 5 INT's, 5 TD's and a whopping 44% CMP. AZ state, while he had some success...he was very inaccurate.

Against the other games on our schedule, he lit it up...as he should.

I'm sorry, he is great agasint Air Force and Temple. But when he plays UM, OU, and MSU?? He wasn't very good.

He doesn't play well against good teams. He's a fraud. Even in 2011, his other decent year...He took a total **** against FSU, Stan, USC and UM.

I would argue that if ND were to play MSU tomorrow, Tommy would perform MUCH better. He's doing better at taking advantage of man coverage, which MSU used all game. Also, Tommy played well against UM aside from the one mind-boggling interception, but even that play wasn't a back-breaker like the turnovers of past seasons.

 

[irishpat183]

Fair points. But without him, this program would be miles behind where it currently is.

Weren't you the guy claiming that Goff was a top 5 QB? How's that working out?

No. I said, at the time, he was better than Tommy in the "top 25 discussion".

But he's only a freshman. And talk about a horrific defense..

 

[kmoose]

I wonder how many other writers and sports reporters out there share the same feeling about Tommy? I mean, if he's so damn good, he should be at the top of the heisman lists!?!? He's setting all these ND passing records.

I'll let you spearhead the campaign along with the other "experts" on IE. Obviously.

The coaches believe in him, and his teammates believe in him. But you are obviously smarter than all of them. YOU have it figured out, that Rees, while not holding us back, doesn't advance us in any way. Guess what, pat.............. there've been a TON of college quarterbacks that have been successful, who fall into the same category. Craig Krenzel, Matt Mauck, Chris Leak, Ken Dorsey, and Josh Heupel all won National Championships with numbers that were similar to Rees' numbers.

 

[IrishLax]

Fair points. But without him, this program would be miles behind where it currently is.

Weren't you the guy claiming that Goff was a top 5 QB? How's that working out?

He's the guy who said that Notre Dame can't play with a Miami team that has needed miracles in consecutive weeks to beat UNC and Wake Forest.

The thing about Tommy is that he is entirely reliant on WRs winning their matchups and a clean pocket to be effective. But when that happens... that is, when all of his complimentary players bring their A game... he's quite good. When that doesn't happen, due to his physical limitations he can be quite bad.

I thought he was a top 25 QB... and while his numbers so far indicate he's more like top 30-35 and he very well might finish in the top 25... he's clearly not "good" in the sense that he doesn't have anywhere near NFL talent. But for every Michigan/MSU/Oklahoma he's had games like the first half against USC this year, Stanford 2012, etc. that are very strong performances in important spots against top defenses.

Haters, like pat, refuse to acknowledge his good performances and hearken back to his embarrassing ones. Reesus lovers look at his overall body of work/his winning record and smooth out all the rough edges. I've been on both sides of the fence... detracting what I considered "poor" play in some games prior to this season, and defending his efforts to start this year. In the middle ground, he's simply a kid playing as hard as he can and performing at a level that is quite a bit above average for an FBS QB. Anyone who argues that he "sucks" simply doesn't watch enough college football.

 

[KPENN]

You guys are wasting your time arguing with a guy that was hoping Tommy would get hurt in the Purdue game thread.

 

[Cackalacky]

You guys are wasting your time arguing with a guy that was hoping Tommy would get hurt in the Purdue game thread.

Yup.

 

[IrishLion]

I wonder what Pat was like in 2007 lol

 

[ickythump1225]

I wonder what Pat was like in 2007 lol

Probably miserable and insufferable...oh wait. Actually he was probably happy because he was right all the time.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I got a kick out of Aaron Taylor's comment about Rees on Saturday: "He can make plays with legs." Tommy looked good passing the ball but if he has made more than 3 plays with his legs in 4 years, I must have missed most of them...and I am pretty sure I haven't missed a down of ND football in that time. I am sure Aaron was thinking: "What the Hell just came out of my mouth?"

 

[Irish To The Core]

As far as those guys who are on about how bad Rees is: if we had a better option, that guy would be starting. Tommy has limitations, I don't dispute that. Notre Dame would likely be undefeated with Golson at qb. I also believe that to be true. We don't have Golson and Tommy is the best we have. He has been about as good as we could hope this year:decent but not spectacular.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Tommy is...
25th in the country in passing yards.
7th in the country in TDs.

And wasn't it you who was just complaining about how we can't run?

You can't have it both ways, buddy.

So then he is AT LEAST the 25th best QB.

 

[Grahambo]

He kinda reminds me of the college version of Trent Dilfer.

Either way, this guy has us 6-2 and we can all debate the semantics of Tommy Rees but he isn't going anywhere so the haters should pipe down already.

He's the best option ND has this season and considering he's dealing with 4 different RB's, 2 new starting OL, a converted DE at TE, a backup TE with 2 career TD's, and quite a bit of youth at the WR position, I think he's done very well.

 

[chubler]

Wow. Leave for a few hours to study genetics and look what happens...

Having started all this, I might as well contribute my two cents. IMO, Tommy's more than adequate, but not much. The difference between Tommy and a more gifted QB is that Tommy has a very limited ability to create. When his receiver makes a play for him, Tommy can deliver the ball (usually). When the Oline gives him a week and a half to survey the field, he will find the open man. But when Tommy needs to make a play himself, whether that is to escape an unblocked rusher or to convert a 3rd and 10 if all his guys are covered, he usually fails.

Tommy Rees is a pretty great human being, and has been a blessing for ND given our turmoil at QB recently. He's played to the best of his ability and done us proud. But with that said, this is Notre Dame. We can and should expect our QB to be able to do more than take what the defense gives him, to create, which is EG's biggest strength and Tommy's biggest weakness. His lack of ability to make a play by himself, his reliance on someone else making a play, is how Tommy is holding us back on offense. With a QB who can both distribute the ball when someone else makes a play AND make plays of their own, this would be a completely different passing attack.

Even having said that, I'm gonna reiterate my love for Tommy Rees. I don't think he's a "great" qb. He might be above average. But I don't really care. He's our QB this season and we all know he's the best option we've got, so I'm gonna support him.

 

[phgreek]

I think that's a fair point. Some of this is just semantics.

Tommy has been put in horrible positions for his entire career. All in all, he's been way better than most would have ever expected.

expected of him, or the QB at ND?

I respect his work, and am glad we have him...but if we are evaluating him, I want more out of my QB. He may be a leader in passing yardage at ND, but if folks can't understand why that does not translate ...please look at the top 10 receivers for yardage...how many of them are shared between Quinn, Clausen and Rees. 6 out of 10. THE GAME largely dictates those stats. But who here puts Rees on the same level as Quinn and Clausen as a QB...Most people know the History of QBs...at least the recent history...Does calling him a filler seem cold...I guess...is it going to elicit a response...I guess...but as you say, its semantics to a degree...so what do we call the guy playing QB at ND while we wait for the next installment of Clausen or Quinn...obviously not "filler" or whatever because that sh!t will get flaming bags of poop on your doorstep...I call him Tommy, and I know what he is, and what he isn't.

 

[Grahambo]

expected of him, or the QB at ND?

I respect his work, and am glad we have him...but if we are evaluating him, I want more out of my QB. He may be a leader in passing yardage at ND, but if folks can't understand why that does not translate ...please look at the top 10 receivers for yardage...how many of them are shared between Quinn, Clausen and Rees. 6 out of 10. THE GAME largely dictates those stats. But who here puts Rees on the same level as Quinn and Clausen as a QB...Most people know the History of QBs...at least the recent history...Does calling him a filler seem cold...I guess...is it going to elicit a response...I guess...but as you say, its semantics to a degree...so what do we call the guy playing QB at ND while we wait for the next installment of Clausen or Quinn...obviously not "filler" or whatever because that sh!t will get flaming bags of poop on your doorstep...I call him Tommy, and I know what he is, and what he isn't.

Don't you think that's a bit unfair to him considering he's always been a limited a QB? It would seem to me that you are expecting more from him when he literally can't give you more. And that's not his fault. For all his limitations, he has gone above what anybody can realistically expect from him. Again, look at the offense as a whole around him; outside of TJ Jones and an injured DD, who's really been there consistently and who has experience?

 

[chubler]

Don't you think that's a bit unfair to him considering he's always been a limited a QB? It would seem to me that you are expecting more from him when he literally can't give you more. And that's not his fault. For all his limitations, he has gone above what anybody can realistically expect from him. Again, look at the offense as a whole around him; outside of TJ Jones and an injured DD, who's really been there consistently and who has experience?

I don't think it's unfair, I think you're both saying exactly. We all recognize that what you see is basically what you get with Tommy Rees, he's "hit his ceiling" for all intents and purposes. He's just saying that he wants more from the QB than what Tommy seems to be capable of, not that Tommy should be the one to deliver it.

 

[irishpat183]

He's the guy who said that Notre Dame can't play with a Miami team that has needed miracles in consecutive weeks to beat UNC and Wake Forest.

The thing about Tommy is that he is entirely reliant on WRs winning their matchups and a clean pocket to be effective. But when that happens... that is, when all of his complimentary players bring their A game... he's quite good. When that doesn't happen, due to his physical limitations he can be quite bad.

I thought he was a top 25 QB... and while his numbers so far indicate he's more like top 30-35 and he very well might finish in the top 25... he's clearly not "good" in the sense that he doesn't have anywhere near NFL talent. But for every Michigan/MSU/Oklahoma he's had games like the first half against USC this year, Stanford 2012, etc. that are very strong performances in important spots against top defenses.

Haters, like pat, refuse to acknowledge his good performances and hearken back to his embarrassing ones. Reesus lovers look at his overall body of work/his winning record and smooth out all the rough edges. I've been on both sides of the fence... detracting what I considered "poor" play in some games prior to this season, and defending his efforts to start this year. In the middle ground, he's simply a kid playing as hard as he can and performing at a level that is quite a bit above average for an FBS QB. Anyone who argues that he "sucks" simply doesn't watch enough college football.

You guys are wasting your time arguing with a guy that was hoping Tommy would get hurt in the Purdue game thread.

Yup.

I wonder what Pat was like in 2007 lol

Probably miserable and insufferable...oh wait. Actually he was probably happy because he was right all the time.

Let it flow fellas.....haters gonna hate!


And my tommy comment during Purdue was supposed to be in italics. I've already cleared that up.

 

[PANDFAN]

Let it flow fellas.....haters gonna hate!


And my tommy comment during Purdue was supposed to be in italics. I've already cleared that up.

 

[Cackalacky]

Let it flow fellas.....haters gonna hate!


And my tommy comment during Purdue was supposed to be in italics. I've already cleared that up.

You know I don't hate you pat. Most of the time I find your inarticulate, vacuous, over-generalized and merciless musings quite AMUSING.

 

[irishpat183]

You know I don't hate you pat. Most of the time I find your inarticulate, vacuous, over-generalized and merciless musings quite AMUSING.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[PANDFAN]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Cackalacky]