Could the "haters" cost ND a shot at a National Championship?

[Irish To The Core]

I notice that the polls which are not succeptable to emotional voting favor Notre Dame more than the polls which are.

Indisputably, there are voters in those polls who would rather castrate themselves with a plastic butter knife than vote Notre Dame into the National Championship game. Furthermore, we all know that Notre Dame has far more rabid haters stalking them than any other program in the country.

If Notre Dame wins out, I can say with a clear conscience that Notre Dame by any rational standards deserves to be in the big game. Notre Dame will have conquered the toughest schedule of any of the potential undefeated teams. Notre Dame will have matched Kansas State and Oregon's most impressive wins. Notre Dame will have beaten 7 bowl teams (by my estimate). There are already poll voters going on record saying that Oregon has a better team so they should get the nod over Notre Dame. How can that "better team" conclusion be defended? Better on paper is now a reasonable criteria for determining a national champion? Those same people said Oklahoma had a better team. Turns out better in theory and better on the field are two very different things.

I am getting a sinking feeling that this matter might be settled by the prejudices of a significant core of the voters.

Am I just paranoid?

 

[Redbar]

I notice that the polls which are not succeptable to emotional voting favor Notre Dame more than the polls which are.

Indisputably, there are voters in those polls who would rather castrate themselves with a plastic butter knife than vote Notre Dame into the National Championship game. Furthermore, we all know that Notre Dame has far more rabid haters stalking them than any other program in the country.

If Notre Dame wins out, I can say with a clear conscience that Notre Dame by any rational standards deserves to be in the big game. Notre Dame will have conquered the toughest schedule of any of the potential undefeated teams. Notre Dame will have matched Kansas State and Oregon's most impressive wins. Notre Dame will have beaten 7 bowl teams (by my estimate). There are already poll voters going on record saying that Oregon has a better team so they should get the nod over Notre Dame. How can that "better team" conclusion be defended? Better on paper is now a reasonable criteria for determining a national champion? Those same people said Oklahoma had a better team. Turns out better in theory and better on the field are two very different things.

I am getting a sinking feeling that this matter might be settled by the prejudices of a significant core of the voters.

Am I just paranoid?

No.

 

[philipm31]

Agreed. ND will get screwed even if they win out.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

We'd all better start coming to terms with the fact that this is a real possibility.
Hopefully things work themselves out.

 

[stlnd01]

Is there some anti-ND bias in the polls? Maybe. A little.
But our potential predicament is also a function of our treasured independence (we don't have a built-in block of schools with a vested interest in our success, like K-State does). And of 20 years of occasionally over-hyped mediocrity, especially compared to the teams we're in the running with (no matter their schedule, Alabama is #1 until proven otherwise).
Also, let's face it, we've had more close games than the other undefeateds - Purdue, BYU, Stanford - that matters in terms of perception, especially since we started off unranked. Does that reflect an inherent bias against teams that win with defense, instead of video game offenses? Maybe. But Oregon's been putting away BCS-conference opponents at halftime while we've needed last-drive doses of Tommy Rees.
Also, for every "hater" - especially in the media - there's someone who likes Notre Dame and realizes that college football is greater when we're good and "relevant." For every Mark May, there's a Lou Holtz. We do get more coverage than pretty much anyone else.
So can we maybe ease up on the hater talk? Crying bias is kind of unbecoming, especially when there's still a third of the season yet to play. Odds are, this will work itself out. Almost always does.

 

[koonja]

At least one of K-State, USC, or Bama will lose this weekend. That will help.

 

[Irish#1]

It really comes down to the "eye test". Which team looks better on TV? Because Oregon's offense is lighting it up, the pollsters think they are better. If we had put up some decent (not outlandish) numbers in a few of our other wins I think ND would be ahead of Oregon and KSU in the polls. If the offense continues to do well I think the problem will resolve itself. Pollsters will see this isn't a one dimensional team.

 

[WaveDomer]

This is something to worry about in the last 2 weeks or even the last week, IMHO, if you even have to worry about it then. ND needs to just keep winning.

 

[woolybug25]

So another thread, eh?

 

[UmphreakDomer]

let's extrapolate this hypothetical--

let's say ND wins out. and 1 of the following; oregon, alabama, or k-state do as well. we could have a shared national championship.

if more than 1 of the previous listed win out, it could be shared amongst those 2 higher ranked teams. and this would be a problem, for us.

i think this will all shake out--but did any of you even start to think that this couldve been a real conversation 4-5 months ago?

 

[GOBIG]

Just win out. I am going to the bowl game either way.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

At least one of K-State, USC, or Bama will lose this weekend. That will help.

USC? lol we want them to win! Down goes Oregon!

 

[koonja]

USC? lol we want them to win! Down goes Oregon!

Meant Oregon. Btw, this thread should be deleted. We already have this thread.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/75491-bcs-rankings-2012-a.html

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

No way KSU gets picked over ND, or another team for that matter.

The lack of fan base will cause a significant decline in viewers and overall money brought in.

My two cents.

 

[OCIrish]

I'm simply amazed that some people continue to bring up this "dead" horse and continue to beat the dog **** out of it.......

 

[TDHeysus]

if ND goes undefeated, there is NO WAY, and I mean NO WAY they are not in the NCG. thats is all.

 

[ARALOU]

I recall some years back ND fan was picking their opponent for a bowl assuming they would be undefeated. Guess what? You guys are making me nervous. Lets just beat Pitt, BC, Wake, and USC before we bitch about something that hasn't happened yet.

This reminds me of the time I argued with my wife about the size of the house we were gonna purchase "if" we won powerball.

 

[GDomer09]

It really comes down to the "eye test". Which team looks better on TV? Because Oregon's offense is lighting it up, the pollsters think they are better. If we had put up some decent (not outlandish) numbers in a few of our other wins I think ND would be ahead of Oregon and KSU in the polls. If the offense continues to do well I think the problem will resolve itself. Pollsters will see this isn't a one dimensional team.

This. Unless Oregon and KState lose I think we are going to have to beat the snot out of the next (3) teams and beat USC convincingly in order to get into the NC game. I think we can and hope BK is willing to do so, no tressel ball......big numbers!

It's unfortunate we're in this predicament especially when we've beat (6) teams with winning records and the other three have only beat (4) teams. Our first (8) games were obviously harder than the other three, but for some reason no one but Notre Dame Faithful is talking about it. Musburger even said towards the end of the OU game that people have perceived our schedule so far to be easier than the other three. How can this be?

 

[PraetorianND]

This. Unless Oregon and KState lose I think we are going to have to beat the snot out of the next (3) teams and beat USC convincingly in order to get into the NC game. I think we can and hope BK is willing to do so, no tressel ball......big numbers!

It's unfortunate we're in this predicament especially when we've beat (6) teams with winning records and the other three have only beat (4) teams. Our first (8) games were obviously harder than the other three, but for some reason no one but Notre Dame Faithful is talking about it. Musburger even said towards the end of the OU game that people have perceived our schedule so far to be easier than the other three. How can this be?

Because we're not in a conference.

 

[phork]

If everything stands as it is, Oregon will be #2 at the end. We will be left out because we started so far back.

We need 2 of the top3 to lose. The human polls have Oregon's back, then KSU.

2 teams above us lose, we are in, period. (If we win out).

 

[JughedJones]

If everything stands as it is, Oregon will be #2 at the end. We will be left out because we started so far back.

We need 2 of the top3 to lose. The human polls have Oregon's back, then KSU.

2 teams above us lose, we are in, period. (If we win out).

Alabama and Oregon lose -> KState and ND win out -> Madness.

 

[PraetorianND]

Alabama and Oregon lose -> KState and ND win out -> Madness.

It would be LSU v. Bama in the NCG.

 

[connor_in]

On WSBT Radio's SportsBeat Eric Hansen was talking about this statistics guy who said there was just over a 1% chance that all 4 of the top four teams goes undefeated the rest of the way. He actually had that all 4 teams would lose one game at about 15% likelihood.

I don't have access to it, but I believe Hansen tweeted the guy's site as well so if you have access to twitter, check Hansen's timeline.

 

[connor_in]

You forgot italics...

or to put January 2012

 

[pumpdog20]

LSU will get BAMA and OK ST will KSU this weekend.

I'm looking forward to the Oregon vs ND NCG.

 

[connor_in]

LSU will get BAMA and OK ST will KSU this weekend.

I'm looking forward to the Oregon vs ND NCG.

SEC Conspiracy Theory Alert...
...I have heard people speculate that if LSU beats Bama that LSU moves up over ND and/or Bama only drops a couple but still ahead of ND (assuming Ore, and KSU wins)

Not saying its credible, but the pollsters DO luv them some SEC

 

[Irish#1]

I recall some years back ND fan was picking their opponent for a bowl assuming they would be undefeated. Guess what? You guys are making me nervous. Lets just beat Pitt, BC, Wake, and USC before we bitch about something that hasn't happened yet.

This reminds me of the time I argued with my wife about the size of the house we were gonna purchase "if" we won powerball.

How did that workout? lol

 

[Grahambo]

ND wins out..ND will be in the NCG. I believe the powers that be would somehow make it so especially if it would be against Alabama. The ratings, money, etc would be absolutely through the roof.

They are #3 in the BCS. They will somehow leap KSU if everyone wins out. They aren't far behind Oregon in either poll.

From a business standpoint, people will make sure ND plays 'Bama if everyone wins out.

 

[JadeBrecks]

If you ask me the money we bring tops the haters hating.

 

[Irish To The Core]

Is there some anti-ND bias in the polls? Maybe. A little.
But our potential predicament is also a function of our treasured independence (we don't have a built-in block of schools with a vested interest in our success, like K-State does). And of 20 years of occasionally over-hyped mediocrity, especially compared to the teams we're in the running with (no matter their schedule, Alabama is #1 until proven otherwise).
Also, let's face it, we've had more close games than the other undefeateds - Purdue, BYU, Stanford - that matters in terms of perception, especially since we started off unranked. Does that reflect an inherent bias against teams that win with defense, instead of video game offenses? Maybe. But Oregon's been putting away BCS-conference opponents at halftime while we've needed last-drive doses of Tommy Rees.
Also, for every "hater" - especially in the media - there's someone who likes Notre Dame and realizes that college football is greater when we're good and "relevant." For every Mark May, there's a Lou Holtz. We do get more coverage than pretty much anyone else.
So can we maybe ease up on the hater talk? Crying bias is kind of unbecoming, especially when there's still a third of the season yet to play. Odds are, this will work itself out. Almost always does.

There is no way that is true. Notre Dame has a huge national fan base but they also have a huge nation-wide army of haters. Moreso than any other team.

The huge early success of Rockne and Leahy combined with the massive media saturation brought about envy from all other fan bases. Anti-Catholic bigotry fuelled some of that hate early on and even though I would like to believe that is no longer the case, the anti-Catholic hatred of ND has been passed down to today's generations as just plain old hatred of Notre Dame. The NBC deal irks followers of all other programs, even if they now have their own more lucrative TV deals. And for some reason almost everybody who is not an ND supporter is just blind eyed, foaming at the mouth enraged that Notre Dame wants to stay independant. And for all these years the legions of haters have gleefully pointed out that ND is irrelevent.

I hope good old fashioned lust for the almighty dollar (which ND can deliver like no other team) will be sufficient to overcome 10 generations of inbred hatred for anything remotely linked to Notre Dame football.