Politics

[IrishinSyria]

At first glance I thought the piece would've come from the Wall Street Journal or Investor's Business Daily. Nope...it was that hard right leaning New York Times. Have to wonder how they feel about the Clinton's these days given their hard investigative work into the Clinton cash BS.

You can disagree with this guy all you want and laugh all you want. My point was that there is no such thing anymore as a moderate Democrat.

I mean, probably not if you set the bar for "moderate" as "holds the same social views as an average American 25 years ago."

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I mean, probably not if you set the bar for "moderate" as "holds the same social views as an average American 25 years ago."

How about social, economic, foreign policy, and domestic views of 10 years ago? I'd bet a handful were still around. At that time I was in college and paying almost no attention to politics, so if anyone can throw out some names feel free.

 

[RDU Irish]

How about social, economic, foreign policy, and domestic views of 10 years ago? I'd bet a handful were still around. At that time I was in college and paying almost no attention to politics, so if anyone can throw out some names feel free.

Well Mitt Romney for one....

 

[wizards8507]

I mean, probably not if you set the bar for "moderate" as "holds the same social views as an average American 25 years ago."

I'd wager that your estimation of what the average American believes today is skewed dramatically to the left due to social media and pop culture. For example, polls show that Americans believe 25% of the population is gay or lesbian, while the actual number is 3% to 4%.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'd wager that your estimation of what the average American believes today is skewed dramatically to the left due to social media and pop culture. For example, polls show that Americans believe 25% of the population is gay or lesbian, while the actual number is 3% to 4%.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

A factual misunderstanding with no import- first, sexuality exists on a spectrum, it's not a binary gay or not type thing, so any attempt to measure it is going to be inherently flawed. More importantly, when assessing whether or not we want to extend certain rights to minority groups, the size of the minority group doesn't really seem like it should matter. The number that does matter is that a much higher percentage of the population supports gay marriag today- it's definitely not a far left position.

Similarly, there's been a widespread shift against support for the war on drugs. You don't have to be a drug user to understand that policies that lead to unregulated monopolies for violent cartels may not make a ton of sense.

On matters of foreign policy and the economy, Obama is very much in the center. His administration has deported more illegal immigrants than any other in history. He's actively pursued GWB'e global war. He's pursuing a massive free trade deal over the protests of the left, etc...

 

[wizards8507]

A factual misunderstanding with no import- first, sexuality exists on a spectrum, it's not a binary gay or not type thing, so any attempt to measure it is going to be inherently flawed.

Lmao. The way you prove how in touch you are with the mainstream American voter is by arguing that sexuality is a spectrum? That would be a leftist position on a college campus in California.

Do you have a penis, yes or no?
Do you prefer your sexual partner to have a penis, yes or no?

Yes, yes = Gay
Yes, no = Straight
No, Yes = Straight
No, no = Gay

More importantly, when assessing whether or not we want to extend certain rights to minority groups, the size of the minority group doesn't really seem like it should matter. The number that does matter is that a much higher percentage of the population supports gay marriag today- it's definitely not a far left position.

I'm not talking about gay marriage, I'm talking about how most Americans believe the country to be more liberal than it is. I'm not debating the merits of the policy positions, but rather how the prevalence of those positions is perceived. Again, not saying "nobody cares about gay issues because the percentage of gay people is small." I'm simply pointing out that "most people assume there are loads of gay people when it's actually a very small percentage."

 

[phgreek]

Lmao. The way you prove how in touch you are with the mainstream American voter is by arguing that sexuality is a spectrum? That would be a leftist position on a college campus in California.

Do you have a penis, yes or no?
Do you prefer your sexual partner to have a penis, yes or no?

Yes, yes = Gay
Yes, no = Straight
No, Yes = Straight
No, no = Gay



I'm not talking about gay marriage, I'm talking about how most Americans believe the country to be more liberal than it is. I'm not debating the merits of the policy positions, but rather how the prevalence of those positions is perceived. Again, not saying "nobody cares about gay issues because the percentage of gay people is small." I'm simply pointing out that "most people assume there are loads of gay people when it's actually a very small percentage."

...and what causes that skewed perception. Honestly the power of social media for causers is to turn sheeple into advocates...the people who want to belong, and reflexively go along...BUT, it seems social media advocacy doesn't always translate to the voting booth, as the Gay marriage issue showed time and again...

The first part of your post will be viewed as simplistic. I laughed my asz off because sometimes a blunt approach is the thing that allows for no ducking, wiggling, sidestepping and then you get INFORMATION not just data people manipulate.

 

[IrishinSyria]

How you define homosexuality is not a political issue subject to being left or right, nor is the number of gays in America. It's just as likely that conservatives overestimate the number, thinking that we're in the midst of some big gay take over, as it is that liberals are the ones responsible for that 25% number.

The point that actually matters is that Obama's position on gay marriage, which is at least somewhat a political view, is squarely in the American mainstream. It is definitely not an example of him being to the left of '92 Clinton.

 

[pkt77242]

...and what causes that skewed perception. Honestly the power of social media for causers is to turn sheeple into advocates...the people who want to belong, and reflexively go along...BUT, it seems social media advocacy doesn't always translate to the voting booth, as the Gay marriage issue showed time and again...

The first part of your post will be viewed as simplistic. I laughed my asz off because sometimes a blunt approach is the thing that allows for no ducking, wiggling, sidestepping and then you get INFORMATION not just data people manipulate.

Most of the voting took place before social media (things such as Facebook and Twitter, not counting Myspace) took off. Most of the State gay marriage bans happened between 2004 and 2006. A few in 2008 and one in 2012.

Also we know that the people who support gay marriage the most (the young) are the least likely to vote, and the people who dislike gay marriage the most (the old) are most likely to vote. Not really shocking that ballot measures to ban gay marriage pass.

This shows the age breakdown

This shows overall acceptance

As you can see that people in favor of gay marriage didn't reach a plurality till 2011, so not exactly shocking that gay marriage bans would have been passed in 2004-2006 or even 2008.

 

[pkt77242]

Yeah, people often say this, but I don't know if I see any realistic difficulty there. Polygamy carries historical connotations of patriarchal abuse (especially, for the American progressive, whose frame of reference includes the history of Islam or LDS) that are inconsistent with progressivism, to which patriarchy is an anachronism. Plus, at least from a legal perspective, the gay rights movement in America has proceeded by emphasizing equality and equal rights to participate in the institution of marriage; legal challenges have proceeded under the equal protection clause. The only distinction between SSM and "traditional" marriage, SSM advocates hold, is based on the sex of the people involved. But a polygamous relationship has another critical difference: a difference in the number of participants. It's an essentially different institution, not the same institution with a sex-based difference (which sort of differences progressives tend not to recognize as legitimate). So conclusions that SSM opens the door to polygamy have always struck me as poorly reasoned. The premise of such arguments is that once you change anything from "traditional" marriage, you can change anything else, but that reasoning is insufficiently attentive to the fact that the people who are in favor of changing the definition of "traditional" marriage have certain values too, and polygamy is just not in line with them.

Now, if the point is simply that once you untether marriage from its religious definition, it could, theoretically, be enlarged to include polygamous relationships, that's a perfectly valid argument. But as a historical prediction, I think it's silly.

I am not disagreeing with you. Whiskey is the one who brought up that it would lead to polygamy, not me. I think it would raise some questions but ultimately I believe that it wouldn't become accepted by the courts or by the people.

 

[wizards8507]

How you define homosexuality is not a political issue subject to being left or right, nor is the number of gays in America. It's just as likely that conservatives overestimate the number, thinking that we're in the midst of some big gay take over, as it is that liberals are the ones responsible for that 25% number.

I absolutely agree. I never said it was only liberals who have misconceptions about the makeup of the country, whether it's how "gay" the country is or how "liberal" the country is.

 

[woolybug25]

How about social, economic, foreign policy, and domestic views of 10 years ago? I'd bet a handful were still around. At that time I was in college and paying almost no attention to politics, so if anyone can throw out some names feel free.

Wait... You were in college 10 years ago?!?!?

I could have swore you were a 48 year old construction worker.

 

[GoIrish41]

The key mystery at the heart of Dennis Hastert case | MSNBC

 

[Anchorman]

Found this interesting, particularly the age divide.

Abortion: Pro-choice outpolls pro-life for first time in 7 years - POLITICO

 

[wizards8507]

Found this interesting, particularly the age divide.

Abortion: Pro-choice outpolls pro-life for first time in 7 years - POLITICO

Deeply troubling. I can get worked up about a lot of issues but this one just completely deflates me. Very sad.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Dennis Hastert.

 

[Corry]

Good piece on redistricting. If you don't have 538 bookmarked you're missing out. IT's one of the best sites out there.

The Supreme Court Could Transfer A Lot Of Political Power Away From Cities | FiveThirtyEight

 

[irishff1014]

As much as I dislike Joe Biden I do have sympathy for his family tonight as his son died from brain cancer. A parent should never live longer then their child!!!

 

[GoIrish41]

As much as I dislike Joe Biden I do have sympathy for his family tonight as his son died from brain cancer. A parent should never live longer then their child!!!

That man has lived through a lot of tragedy. He lost another child and his first wife to a car accident I believe. This is terrible news.

 

[phgreek]

Most of the voting took place before social media (things such as Facebook and Twitter, not counting Myspace) took off. Most of the State gay marriage bans happened between 2004 and 2006. A few in 2008 and one in 2012.

Also we know that the people who support gay marriage the most (the young) are the least likely to vote, and the people who dislike gay marriage the most (the old) are most likely to vote. Not really shocking that ballot measures to ban gay marriage pass.

This shows the age breakdown

This shows overall acceptance

As you can see that people in favor of gay marriage didn't reach a plurality till 2011, so not exactly shocking that gay marriage bans would have been passed in 2004-2006 or even 2008.

Since the issue is largely decided (by courts) we won't know if what you say would translate to affirmative referendums on gay marriage in the future. What we do know is exactly one out of 5 referendums in the social media era went for gay marriage...Maine in 2012. That same year North Carolina went against. Not sure social media advocacy moved the needle in either case...shrug.

Telling me 18-29 y/o s don't vote is the point...they do advocate like crazy, but only Mr. Obama translated that (08, 12) into action. They can find the booth, and have been since 08 if it matters. You would think something portrayed as a civil rights issue would move the needle...not so much.

 

[irishff1014]

That man has lived through a of of tragedy. He lost another child and his first wife to a car accident I believe. This is terrible news.

Yes I do believe that's all true. From my understanding Beau was well liked. And was planning to run for governor in Delaware in 16.

 

[ND NYC]

looks like former Speaker of the House Hastert has been paying hush money to a former student, player for some time.

sad that these things are more and more not surprising from politicians.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“One of my core principles is that I will never engage in a politics in which I’m trying to divide people” —<a href="https://twitter.com/POTUS">@POTUS</a> <a href="http://t.co/eKYB5zdKnE">http://t.co/eKYB5zdKnE</a></p>— The White House (@WhiteHouse) <a href="https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/605457866841939968">June 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Obama: I've Restored the US as the 'Most Respected Country in the World' - Breitbart

 

[pkt77242]

Sweden extends paid paternity leave for dads - CNN.com

 

[phgreek]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“One of my core principles is that I will never engage in a politics in which I’m trying to divide people” —<a href="https://twitter.com/POTUS">@POTUS</a> <a href="http://t.co/eKYB5zdKnE">http://t.co/eKYB5zdKnE</a></p>— The White House (@WhiteHouse) <a href="https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/605457866841939968">June 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Obama: I've Restored the US as the 'Most Respected Country in the World' - Breitbart

I laughed...

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Obama: Under My Leadership "The United States Is The Most Respected Country On Earth" | Video | RealClearPolitics

The arrogance is nauseating, and the assertion is laughable.

 

[ACamp1900]

Well if the mark of a true politician is lying through the teeth and saying the exact opposite of reality, then I'll at least give the potus this much,... he's definitely a true politician.

 

[pkt77242]

Huckabee: I wish I could've ID'd as female in HS gym - CNNPolitics.com

 

[phgreek]

Huckabee: I wish I could've ID'd as female in HS gym - CNNPolitics.com

...I didn't laugh.

The first time a dude enters the girls locker room at my Kid's school (with the blessing of the powers that be), I'm going to have a serious problem, and then they are.

Its about privacy, and the convention is based on plumbing...PERIOD! You have a Penis, you go the the boys' locker room...don't care if you are gay, bi, feel you have the wrong equipment...whatever. You have a vagina, you go to the girl's locker room...don't care if you are gay, bi, feel you have the wrong equipment...whatever. You have both, or a mix of organs, special arrangements shall be made.

 

[pkt77242]

Baltimore Murder Record: Freddie Gray Aftermath