Politics

[Jebediah Springfield]

This is funny goirish, just seeing you stand as a man of american principles. Yes I agree, America is made better by its principle of immigration. However that immigration must be the result of chasing the better job/life opportunities, and not from seeking access to American social services.

I actually, this wont be popular, don't see the need for drastic immigration reform right this instant. These people came to the US with no intention for us citizenship, they came here for jobs. And as bad as those jobs may be (lettuce picking for 3$ an hour), its still better than mexico, hence why they moved.

Wouldn't making them citizens make them subject to minimum wage laws? that would be an experiment in how good intentions turn bad. Off-topic though.

Even funnier is a guy from Canada talking about this without actually taking the time to learn about the subject.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Teenage Latin Border Horde | National Review Online

 

[Bluto]

My points were absolutely relevant. You're dodging them because in principle you have nothing to stand on. The question wasn't why Mexico sucks. It was how are thousands of kids just being dropped off at the border like they're our responsibility?

They are not political refugees like many Cubans who are/ were being persecuted by the
communist government. Again all these kids should be sent home to their parents. If I'm wrong open the Constitution and show me how. Then I'll open other countries' books of law and show you what they'd do to us if we just popped in one day illegally.

What other countries do is irrelevant. Anyhow the bolded would be the debatable part and the leg I am standing on. Case in point, the Mariel boat lift was partially comprised of common criminals. In your opinion they deserve amnesty as opposed to a bunch of kids who have no clue wtf is going on? Or former members and associates of the Somosa government who had open ties to the Mafia and engaged in drug running, sex trafficking and money laundering? You keep referencing the "legality" of the issue. That's fine. The solution in my opinion would be to for Congress to grant this group amnesty (using some of the dirt bag's from Cuba who received the same as a precedent) then move quickly to reform NAFTA so the two supplements: the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation (NAAEC) and the North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation (NAALC) are actually enforced. In my opinion that would go a long way to reducing illegal immigration at the source in that it would provided Mexicans a legitimate and powerful mechanism to air their grievances and provide a road to reforms through mechanisms that were supposed to be a part of NAFTA in the first place. Americans can keep towing the bullshit "it's not our problem" line but given the fact the US entered into this free trade agreement and Mexico sits right on our border Mexican problems are US problems for better or for worse. The sooner US citizens realize that we are bound at the hip to Mexico the better.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is funny goirish, just seeing you stand as a man of american principles. Yes I agree, America is made better by its principle of immigration. However that immigration must be the result of chasing the better job/life opportunities, and not from seeking access to American social services.

I actually, this wont be popular, don't see the need for drastic immigration reform right this instant. These people came to the US with no intention for us citizenship, they came here for jobs. And as bad as those jobs may be (lettuce picking for 3$ an hour), its still better than mexico, hence why they moved.

Wouldn't making them citizens make them subject to minimum wage laws? that would be an experiment in how good intentions turn bad. Off-topic though.

Not sure why it is funny. This nation was built on immigration. Carnegie comes to mind. He came here seeking a better life and became the richest man in America and his steel was the backbone of the world's best infrastructure. How many Carnegies are we blocking when we seal our borders? How many Einsteins? How many of this nation's great innovators were from somewhere else? Without immigration we would not have become the leaders of the free world. So now that we have ours we want to shut out the rest of the world? Pretty unAmerican and pretty short sighted.

 

[Bluto]

This is funny goirish, just seeing you stand as a man of american principles. Yes I agree, America is made better by its principle of immigration. However that immigration must be the result of chasing the better job/life opportunities, and not from seeking access to American social services.

I actually, this wont be popular, don't see the need for drastic immigration reform right this instant. These people came to the US with no intention for us citizenship, they came here for jobs. And as bad as those jobs may be (lettuce picking for 3$ an hour), its still better than mexico, hence why they moved.

Wouldn't making them citizens make them subject to minimum wage laws? that would be an experiment in how good intentions turn bad. Off-topic though.

That statement about Mexicans coming here to "pick lettuce" is pretty f in ignorant. Mexican immigrants form the backbone of the entire service economy and much of the residential construction industry in the South-West. Based on historic evidence, my thesis research and personal experience the overwhelming majority would jump at the chance to gain citizenship status and come out of the shadows.

 

[IrishLax]

That statement about Mexicans coming here to "pick lettuce" is pretty f in ignorant. Mexican immigrants form the backbone of the entire service economy and much of the residential construction industry in the South-West. Based on historic evidence, my thesis research and personal experience the overwhelming majority would jump at the chance to gain citizenship status and come out of the shadows.

Yup, and not just SW. Both illegal and legal immigrants from Latin America perform the majority of manual labor construction jobs in both the commercial and residential sectors. At least 85% of the masons, carpenters, and roofers I see on a daily basis are Latino.

As an aside, on the whole they also work much harder and have less attitude/productivity/stability issues than their white or black counterparts. Yeah, I know that's "racist" and stereotyping and whatever but it's 100% true in practice so deal with it.

And the biggest lie is that they're "taking jobs" from people. Any homegrown American who wants to work one of these jobs could go get one. But they don't, because they pompously think construction/service jobs are beneath them.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

They also run the wholesale drug market on a couple drugs, if we are talking about industries.

And I could be wrong but I think the only black people that did the service industry thing was the older generation that came out of the South. Im guessing since the 60's or 70's it's been going straight down.

 

[irishff1014]

Yup, and not just SW. Both illegal and legal immigrants from Latin America perform the majority of manual labor construction jobs in both the commercial and residential sectors. At least 85% of the masons, carpenters, and roofers I see on a daily basis are Latino.

As an aside, on the whole they also work much harder and have less attitude/productivity/stability issues than their white or black counterparts. Yeah, I know that's "racist" and stereotyping and whatever but it's 100% true in practice so deal with it.

And the biggest lie is that they're "taking jobs" from people. Any homegrown American who wants to work one of these jobs could go get one. But they don't, because they pompously think construction/service jobs are beneath them.

No your comments aren't racist they are true. The Whites and Blacks out priced them selves. I saw this a lot in the construction world where those groups thought they deserved more money then they were getting and going to union construction jobs. They couldn't find people who would work hard on a roof any more for example so the Latinos came in and did it from cheaper and fast but quality was down.

When i installed Fire sprinkler systems the unions would always come and try to talk us in to joining them. I just did't agree with there outlook. More people to do a job, a little better play, better insurance, but with that said you had to drive further in your own vehicle when i had a company vehicle, you had to buy a whole tool kit that they wanted you too. Not all it was cracked up to be. The guy i worked with and me worked well together as in i knew what my responsibilities we and he knew his and we got the job done right.

 

[Bluto]

They also run the wholesale drug market on a couple drugs, if we are talking about industries.

And I could be wrong but I think the only black people that did the service industry thing was the older generation that came out of the South. Im guessing since the 60's or 70's it's been going straight down.

Nope. These groups at their core are not composed of recent immigrants. What you are referring to are long established Mexican-American gangs with ties to Mexican and South American cartels as well as the Mafia. These groups got their starts in the 30's and 40's in the south west and expanded within the California Prison System during the 60's and 70's. Examples would be La Familia, the Mexican Mafia, Nortenos and Surenos.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Nope. These groups at their core are not composed of recent immigrants. What you are referring to are long established Mexican-American gangs with ties to Mexican and South American cartels as well as the Mafia. These groups got their starts in the 30's and 40's in the south west and expanded within the California Prison System during the 60's and 70's. Examples would be La Familia, the Mexican Mafia, Nortenos and Surenos.

I grew up in Los Angeles and have had family there for decades, it's clear of the change. I'm pretty sure the gang in my childhood neighborhood has had the most RICO cases brought against it. They are nothing compared to the major cartels.

Those gangs (some of the ones you mentioned are intertwined) run second fiddle to the big boys.

 

[Wild Bill]

Immigrants work hard. There's no doubt. I'm a son of an immigrant and my father believes work is a virtue and hard work is a greater virtue. That's not the point. We're a sovereign nation and have the right to protect our borders. Seal the borders and then start working on an immigration policy.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

There is something about seeing people who are willing to risk so much for a better way of life...... that seems so American to me. I seem to remember reading about people from Europe getting on boats, coming here and taking whatever they could. Anyone else read about this?

I'd imagine if we hadn't taken so much of the western United States from Mexico, we probably wouldn't have so many immigration issues.

Now you could take a "the past is the past" view on this if you'd like, but I don't think we should forget where we came from and how we acquired what we have.

It's only ok for us to do it?

We didn't have to follow the laws in the past, because the native Americans didn't have law's?

So many people (not all) screaming for tougher immigration laws haven't done much for this country, they were just lucky to have been born here.

I do believe we should have some.control over immigration, but so much of what I see and hear reminds me of spoiled children who don't want to share their toys.

Hahahaha.

1) Those Europeans did things the right way and legally with no social services and learned the language.

2) If you have no issue with illegal immigration we can take a few dozen from the border and drop them in your backyard. Give them everything they're enitled to.

3) We owe Mexico nothing. They owe us given all their people we've been taking care of for decades.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Give me you tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free ...

This is what America is ... one of the things that makes it strong and vibrant. Embrace the nation's history on immigration. We should not abandon our principles by turning inward.

You're right. All we ask is that you do it legally, learn the language, and get a job, But Sully is right: we have more people than we can handle right now given our economic situation.

Back to my original point: look at the immigration laws of the shity countries these people are fleeing. If Americans tried dropping in there and setting up shop, theyd ship us back the next day. No questions asked.

 

[BobD]

Hahahaha.

1) Those Europeans did things the right way and legally with no social services and learned the language.

2) If you have no issue with illegal immigration we can take a few dozen from the border and drop them in your backyard. Give them everything they're enitled to.

3) We owe Mexico nothing. They owe us given all their people we've been taking care of for decades.

Some people have the unique ability to make themselves look foolish with very little assistance. Thank you for being you!

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Some people have the unique ability to make themselves look foolish with very little assistance. Thank you for being you!

Let me know when...

1) youre ready to take in some illegals to your home

2) give up more in your life so others can have a "shot."

3) you're ready to drop the 4th grade quibs amd debate the issue.

 

[BobD]

Let me know when...

1) youre ready to take in some illegals to your home

2) give up more in your life so others can have a "shot."

3) you're ready to drop the 4th grade quibs amd debate the issue.

We host foreign exchange students and give regularly so others can have a shot. If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm a doer not a debater. You talk about life, I live it.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Hahahaha.

1) Those Europeans did things the right way and legally with no social services and learned the language.

2) If you have no issue with illegal immigration we can take a few dozen from the border and drop them in your backyard. Give them everything they're enitled to.

3) We owe Mexico nothing. They owe us given all their people we've been taking care of for decades.

Lol

Don't read anything about American history in the early 1900's. It might ruin you.

 

[ACamp1900]

I just want a law passed that will allow me to deport my wife when she gets out of line...

#someonethinkofthefuckingchildren!!

 

[DSully1995]

Not sure why it is funny. This nation was built on immigration. Carnegie comes to mind. He came here seeking a better life and became the richest man in America and his steel was the backbone of the world's best infrastructure. How many Carnegies are we blocking when we seal our borders? How many Einsteins? How many of this nation's great innovators were from somewhere else? Without immigration we would not have become the leaders of the free world. So now that we have ours we want to shut out the rest of the world? Pretty unAmerican and pretty short sighted.

It's a joke based on your past posts, your a progressive guy, you don't seem to promote the other principles of american government as much. Limited government, individual liberty etc.

 

[DSully1995]

That statement about Mexicans coming here to "pick lettuce" is pretty f in ignorant. Mexican immigrants form the backbone of the entire service economy and much of the residential construction industry in the South-West. Based on historic evidence, my thesis research and personal experience the overwhelming majority would jump at the chance to gain citizenship status and come out of the shadows.

It was an example, because its obvious they do hard working jobs that sustain the american economy. I didn't mean it to be degrading. And no shit they wanna become american citizens, I bet if you did your thesis of people from other poverty stricken countries you'd see the same thing.


Jebediah
And I don't see the relevance of my being canadian to the debate. Canada has a borders, canada has immigration, and learn about the subject? It doesn't take much learning to be able to debate with the average american.

 

[EddytoNow]

It was an example, because its obvious they do hard working jobs that sustain the american economy. I didn't mean it to be degrading. And no shit they wanna become american citizens, I bet if you did your thesis of people from other poverty stricken countries you'd see the same thing.


Jebediah
And I don't see the relevance of my being canadian to the debate. Canada has a borders, canada has immigration, and learn about the subject? It doesn't take much learning to be able to debate with the average american.

I think DSully may have his dander up a little bit. Perhaps, we should close the border to Canadians. Afterall, they take more of our high paying jobs than all the Mexican agricultural workers put together. If we are going to shut down our border to those seeking a better life, we will need to tear down the Statue of Liberty and its message of hope. Afterall, the only true natives are those who can claim a pure bloodline to Native American ancestors.

 

[DSully1995]

I think DSully may have his dander up a little bit. Perhaps, we should close the border to Canadians. Afterall, they take more of our high paying jobs than all the Mexican agricultural workers put together. If we are going to shut down our border to those seeking a better life, we will need to tear down the Statue of Liberty and its message of hope. Afterall, the only true natives are those who can claim a pure bloodline to Native American ancestors.

I just remembered why I stopped coming into this thread . Im very pro-immigration. It helps economies. Shut down your borders part doesn't make sense though. What hope is gained if mexicans are able to enter and receive citizenship eventually relatively easily, but africans/indians/asians aren't because they happened to have not shared a border with your beacon of hope. Hope you find the compromise.

 

[wizards8507]

Does rule of law mean nothing? So what if most illegal immigrants would "jump at the chance to gain citizenship"? I'd jump at the chance to own a Ferrari but that isn't grounds for stealing one. Seriously, what's the difference? This entire bullshit argument stems from the false equivocation that being anti ILLEGAL immigration is the same as being anti immigration.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[T Town Tommy]

I have softened my stance on the whole immigration argument purely out of humanitarian grounds. Who am I to tell a family that they can't try to better themselves? If I were in their shoes I would try to come across the border as well. I am not advocating a free for all by no means but I would like to see a coherent immigration policy that is fair but enforced as well. Right now, we have no answer to this issue. There has to be some sort of common ground that has to be reached. Right now, nothing is working. Lay aside the political differences and get something done.

 

[GoIrish41]

I have softened my stance on the whole immigration argument purely out of humanitarian grounds. Who am I to tell a family that they can't try to better themselves? If I were in their shoes I would try to come across the border as well. I am not advocating a free for all by no means but I would like to see a coherent immigration policy that is fair but enforced as well. Right now, we have no answer to this issue. There has to be some sort of common ground that has to be reached. Right now, nothing is working. Lay aside the political differences and get something done.

Good to hear Tommy. Humanity comes first. Would love to see Congress look at immigration as something other than a political football.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Good to hear Tommy. Humanity comes first. Would love to see Congress look at immigration as something other than a political football.

If you and I can agree... there is hope for Congress as well. LOL

 

[GoIrish41]

If you and I can agree... there is hope for Congress as well. LOL

We agree again! LOL

 

[Cackalacky]

If you and I can agree... there is hope for Congress as well. LOL

LMAO. GoIrish you betta rep dis man.

 

[GoIrish41]

LMAO. GoIrish you betta rep dis man.

Way ahead of you.

 

[connor_in]

“Barack Obama has brought us Jimmy Carter’s economy and Richard Nixon’s excuses,” Steve Stockman (R., Texas)

Stockman asks NSA for Lois Lerner metadata after IRS claims ‘glitch’ erased all incriminating emails | Congressman Steve Stockman