Politics

[DSully1995]

Marx was wrong about capitalism (unregulated) leading to monopoly?

Marx was wrong the ever constant need for emerging markets, and also the business looking for labor at the lowest common denominator? With the lowest common denominator eventually being machines.

Sure the guy was wrong about how big of middle class grew out of capitalism. The question though remains if it is sustainable as a system in the future.

150 years of the best wealth accumulation and living standards, what else do you want?

Im not sure you understand the definition of a monopoly sir.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Voter fraud is a red herring. IDs would prevent "in person" voter fraud that is virtually non-existent in any state in this nation. The goal here is to keep minorities away from the polls so that more Republicans have a chance to win elections. I don't think it could be more obvious. I have said it before. If there is a push to require voter ID cards, it should be made the day after the next election to maximize the time people have to come into compliance with the law. What typically happens is that attempts are made to impose such laws right before elections to cause confusion about who can and can't vote -- thereby limiting participation. Limiting voting is as unAmerican a tactic as there is and those who are trying to do these things are shameless.

To be fair, you are expecting politicians to act rationally and with fervor? Not a chance. The only time that I can remember in recent history where actions were swift was post 9/11. Everything else going thru Washington is for show and control, nothing else.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Serious question... how close are we to a domestic or worldwide push at population curbs (i.e. two child max, etc.)? And how would you feel about that?

I don't think it'll ever happen. Rising living standards cause people to have fewer children. The birth rate in Japan and most of Europe has been under the replacement rate for decades already. We'd be seeing the same thing here in America if not for Hispanic immigration. Birth rates all over Africa are also tapering off as those countries slowly stumble out of subsistence poverty.

Malthus was super duper wrong. And thank God for it, because population control laws are incredibly harmful. Look no further than China to see why.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't think it'll ever happen. Rising living standards cause people to have fewer children. The birth rate in Japan and most of Europe has been under the replacement rate for decades already. We'd be seeing the same thing here in America if not for Hispanic immigration. Birth rates all over Africa are also tapering off as those countries slowly stumble out of subsistence poverty.

Malthus was super duper wrong. And thank God for it, because population control laws are incredibly harmful. Look no further than China to see why.

That's racist!!!

….


(Sorry, channeled my inner GI41 there)...

 

[GoIrish41]

That's racist!!!

….


(Sorry, channeled my inner GI41 there)...

Don't bring me into your race baiting nonsense. I'm pretty sure I've never called anyone a racist on this site.

 

[connor_in]

Don't bring me into your race baiting nonsense. I'm pretty sure I've never called anyone a racist on this site.

This isn't you explicitly calling anyone here racist, but indirectly so for anyone here who backs voter ID laws, it certainly sounds like it:

Voter fraud is a red herring. IDs would prevent "in person" voter fraud that is virtually non-existent in any state in this nation. The goal here is to keep minorities away from the polls so that more Republicans have a chance to win elections. I don't think it could be more obvious. I have said it before. If there is a push to require voter ID cards, it should be made the day after the next election to maximize the time people have to come into compliance with the law. What typically happens is that attempts are made to impose such laws right before elections to cause confusion about who can and can't vote -- thereby limiting participation. Limiting voting is as unAmerican a tactic as there is and those who are trying to do these things are shameless.

 

[GoIrish41]

This isn't you explicitly calling anyone here racist, but indirectly so for anyone here who backs voter ID laws, it certainly sounds like it:

I didn't say that anyone was a racist, I said the GOP was trying to rig an election by excluding voters (who disproportionally happen to be minirities). I'm not saying everyone who backs voter ID laws is a racist. I'm saying that the policies negatively affect minirities more than not. If you have guilty feelings about that, that's a you thing, not a me thing.

 

[connor_in]

I didn't say that anyone was a racist, I said the GOP was trying to rig an election by excluding voters (who disproportionally happen to be minirities). I'm not saying everyone who backs voter ID laws is a racist. I'm saying that the policies negatively affect minirities more than not. If you have guilty feelings about that, that's a you thing, not a me thing.

Oh...that's right...I am not a racist in your eyes...I just support them and/or racist views...but hey its all on me

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Everyone needing a valid photo ID to vote is racist.

So is flying in a plane
And staying in a hotel
And buying booze

And on and on and on...

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So for those arguing technology is not leading us to a painful transition then where are the jobs going to go.

We went from agriculture to manufanufacturing to a service based economy. After the service industry what's next?

That's the beauty of capitalism. We never know.

"In my country as a child your family name and gender predicted your destiny. In America, I found it to be the exact opposite. My income or career path I could create on my own." --- Dinesh D'Souza

 

[GoIrish41]

Oh...that's right...I am not a racist in your eyes...I just support them and/or racist views...but hey its all on me

You can clear it all up and just explain why you support these policies, even though they are correcting a problem that does not seem to exist. Or you could go on suggesting that racism is the only possible motivation to want these laws in place (which might lead you to believe that you are being called a racist.) I think the GOP is above simple hate. They are a more pragmatic bunch and there is a purpose for what they are doing that has nothing to do (at least directly) with racism. They are trying to get these laws on the books to narrow the voter gap that was present in 6 of the last 7 national elections so they have a better shot at winning in the future. When someone points this rather obvious point out, it shouldn't be the only arrow in your quiver to accuse them of suggesting you are a racist.It is beneith you and benieth the Republican Party that I grew up observing. I'd love to hear a rational explaination for voter ID laws, and given that rationale might even support them if they did not disproportionaly affect minorities.

 

[GoIrish41]

Everyone needing a valid photo ID to vote is racist.

So is flying in a plane
And staying in a hotel
And buying booze

And on and on and on...

I will point out to you what is pointed out to me on IE every time we have a debate about gun control laws. Voting is a Constitutionally established right, unlike flying in a plane, staying in a hotel and buying booze. Forcing people to jump through extra hoops in order to exercise this right is different than the big bad government trying to take our guns through incremental and common sense reforms to gun laws, how? I'm not against having a sensible debate about a topic, but moving forward lets be clear that I don't want to have an argument with people willing to abandon their own argument when it is convenient for a new topic.

 

[connor_in]

You can clear it all up and just explain why you support these policies, even though they are correcting a problem that does not seem to exist. Or you could go on suggesting that racism is the only possible motivation to want these laws in place ???????????????? (which might lead you to believe that you are being called a racist.) I think the GOP is above simple hate. They are a more pragmatic bunch and there is a purpose for what they are doing that has nothing to do (at least directly) with racism. They are trying to get these laws on the books to narrow the voter gap that was present in 6 of the last 7 national elections so they have a better shot at winning in the future. When someone points this rather obvious point out, it shouldn't be the only arrow in your quiver to accuse them of suggesting you are a racist.It is beneith you and benieth the Republican Party that I grew up observing. I'd love to hear a rational explaination for voter ID laws, and given that rationale might even support them if they did not disproportionaly affect minorities.

Originally Posted by GoIrish41
Voter fraud is a red herring. IDs would prevent "in person" voter fraud that is virtually non-existent in any state in this nation. The goal here is to keep minorities away from the polls so that more Republicans have a chance to win elections. I don't think it could be more obvious. I have said it before. If there is a push to require voter ID cards, it should be made the day after the next election to maximize the time people have to come into compliance with the law. What typically happens is that attempts are made to impose such laws right before elections to cause confusion about who can and can't vote -- thereby limiting participation. Limiting voting is as unAmerican a tactic as there is and those who are trying to do these things are shameless.

That is YOUR quote...not mine. So how is it that I am the one suggesting the reason for the laws are racism?

PS: Did you even bother to read the article I posted that started this topic today?

 

[connor_in]

I will point out to you what is pointed out to me on IE every time we have a debate about gun control laws. Voting is a Constitutionally established right, unlike flying in a plane, staying in a hotel and buying booze. Forcing people to jump through extra hoops in order to exercise this right is different than the big bad government trying to take our guns through incremental and common sense reforms to gun laws, how? I'm not against having a sensible debate about a topic, but moving forward lets be clear that I don't want to have an argument with people willing to abandon their own argument when it is convenient for a new topic.

OK...so in that case we shouldn't bring up the whole law of the land thing that keeps being brought up in the Obamacare debate? You know...how R's want to repeal or massively change a law that is the law of the land that can't be touched (even tho this administration constantly adjusts it)...but when voter ID laws are passed they need to be protested and taken off the books


...oh and please show in the Constitution where it says the times, locations, and ways of voting...or are those decided in other laws, ordinances, regulations, and so forth and such like

 

[GoIrish41]

That is YOUR quote...not mine. So how is it that I am the one suggesting the reason for the laws are racism?

PS: Did you even bother to read the article I posted that started this topic today?

Yes that is my quote. It is a statement of fact. You know how I know its a statement of fact ... that when it was pointed out to the republicans that their policies disproportionally affected minorities, they didn't back away from them to come up with new ideas. They continued to pursue them with more and more fervor. They know that removing a chunk of this voting block will increase their odds.

And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that YOU are saying the reason for the laws is racism. Again, I pointed out a fact. GOP is backing policies. Those policies affect minorities more than non-minorities. When I pointed out this fact, you said that I'm calling you a racist. I called BS, and explained that I believe there was another motivation for the law, but you came back to the racism thing. You said, and I quote: "I just support them and/or racist views...but hey its all on me." It's like separating the idea of voter ID laws and racism is impossible. It isn't. Don't confuse the affect of the policy with the reason behind it. I'm literally saying it was another reason but you keep coming back to the idea of racism to make it appear as I am somehow calling you a racist for pointing out a nearly indisputable fact.

To be crystal clear -- I'm not calling you a racist because you believe in voter ID laws. I am inviting you to explain your posiition. I'm even saying, if it is a rational position that does not unfairly exclude minirities from the polls, I might even agree with you.

 

[EddytoNow]

1. Voter ID Laws where little or no fraud exists
2. The most recent gerrymandering following the 2010 elections ensuring Republican control in many states despite receiving a minority of the actual statewide vote
3. Fewer polling places in urban areas resulting in long lines and waits of several hours to vote in an attempt to discourage people from voting
4. Catering to the racist vote (Although most Republicans are not actually racists themselves, the party depends on the racist vote to win elections.)
5. Laws restricting early voting and/or absentee voting

These are the last desperate gasps of a Republican Party that represents fewer and fewer voters with each passing election. The only thing that even keeps the Republican Party viable is their success at turning out a larger percentage of their vote. The policies outlined above are all attempts to restrict voters who typically vote for the Democratic Party. Without a shift in policies to attract a wider voting block, the Republican Party is doomed to the same fate as the Whig and Know-Nothing Parties. All one has to do is identify which states are targeted with these restrictive policies (the swing states where a few thousand fewer voters could turn the tide in favor of the Republicans), and you can easily surmise why it is being done.

 

[GoIrish41]

OK...so in that case we shouldn't bring up the whole law of the land thing that keeps being brought up in the Obamacare debate? You know...how R's want to repeal or massively change a law that is the law of the land that can't be touched (even tho this administration constantly adjusts it)...but when voter ID laws are passed they need to be protested and taken off the books


...oh and please show in the Constitution where it says the times, locations, and ways of voting...or are those decided in other laws, ordinances, regulations, and so forth and such like

I think it is right beside the passage that talks about the right to have semi-automatic weapons with a 100-bullet capacity.

I'm not questioning the merit of any one argument, I'm saying lets not pretend we've just had a "gotcha" moment when I could go back 50 or 60 pages and pull out quotes from the same person making the exact opposite argument for another issue.

 

[connor_in]

Yes that is my quote. It is a statement of fact. You know how I know its a statement of fact ... that when it was pointed out to the republicans that their policies disproportionally affected minorities, they didn't back away from them to come up with new ideas. They continued to pursue them with more and more fervor. They know that removing a chunk of this voting block will increase their odds.

And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that YOU are saying the reason for the laws is racism. Again, I pointed out a fact. GOP is backing policies. Those policies affect minorities more than non-minorities. When I pointed out this fact, you said that I'm calling you a racist. I called BS, and explained that I believe there was another motivation for the law, but you came back to the racism thing. You said, and I quote: "I just support them and/or racist views...but hey its all on me." It's like separating the idea of voter ID laws and racism is impossible. It isn't. Don't confuse the affect of the policy with the reason behind it. I'm literally saying it was another reason but you keep coming back to the idea of racism to make it appear as I am somehow calling you a racist for pointing out a nearly indisputable fact.

To be crystal clear -- I'm not calling you a racist because you believe in voter ID laws. I am inviting you to explain your posiition. I'm even saying, if it is a rational position that does not unfairly exclude minirities from the polls, I might even agree with you.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You kill me ... you really, really do



.... all the more sad is you believe it

 

[connor_in]

I think it is right beside the passage that talks about the right to have semi-automatic weapons with a 100-bullet capacity.

I'm not questioning the merit of any one argument, I'm saying lets not pretend we've just had a "gotcha" moment when I could go back 50 or 60 pages and pull out quotes from the same person making the exact opposite argument for another issue.

Except anyone you don't believe in

 

[Wild Bill]

Voter fraud is a red herring. IDs would prevent "in person" voter fraud that is virtually non-existent in any state in this nation. The goal here is to keep minorities away from the polls so that more Republicans have a chance to win elections. I don't think it could be more obvious. I have said it before. If there is a push to require voter ID cards, it should be made the day after the next election to maximize the time people have to come into compliance with the law. What typically happens is that attempts are made to impose such laws right before elections to cause confusion about who can and can't vote -- thereby limiting participation. Limiting voting is as unAmerican a tactic as there is and those who are trying to do these things are shameless.

These crafty Chicago democrats were so fed up with racist republican shit that they created a political machine. The machine secured the vote of every dead minority voter in the city. There is no voter fraud in the windy city, and if you think it's going on, you're a racist (or you associate with racists).

 

[GoIrish41]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You kill me ... you really, really do



.... all the more sad is you believe it

Except anyone you don't believe in

I'm sorry. Which of these is you explaining your position on supporting voter ID laws? I suppose it is much easier to attempt to mock others or to groundlessly accuse them of calling you names than it is to come up with your own position on an issue -- particularly on an issue you say you support, but somehow can't put into words.

 

[GoIrish41]

These crafty Chicago democrats were so fed up with racist republican shit that they created a political machine. The machine secured the vote of every dead minority voter in the city. There is no voter fraud in the windy city, and if you think it's going on, you're a racist (or you associate with racists).

Is that based on some modern reporting or are we going back a 150 years? Are you suggesting we should make laws that keep potentially millions of people from voting based off of the information you just posted? Show me convictions of people who committed in person voter fraud. Heck, even show me arrest records. We can't make laws based off of urban myths or political corruption dating back to Boss Tweed.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I will point out to you what is pointed out to me on IE every time we have a debate about gun control laws. Voting is a Constitutionally established right, unlike flying in a plane, staying in a hotel and buying booze. Forcing people to jump through extra hoops in order to exercise this right is different than the big bad government trying to take our guns through incremental and common sense reforms to gun laws, how? I'm not against having a sensible debate about a topic, but moving forward lets be clear that I don't want to have an argument with people willing to abandon their own argument when it is convenient for a new topic.

Just as I need a photo ID to get a gun permit, each citizen should show a photo ID in exercising their right to vote. Person A and persn B have to go through the same processes to get a gun permit. The same principle needs to be applied to voting. It's not the Republicans' fault that thousands of Democratic voters have no ID. It's also false that every voter without an ID is Democrat or a minority.

Many states adopted plans for FREE voter ID cards. Others offered plans where the ID is actually brought to your house.

The problem is you're stuck in this belief that we still live in 1952.

 

[connor_in]

I'm sorry. Which of these is you explaining your position on supporting voter ID laws? I suppose it is much easier to attempt to mock others or to groundlessly accuse them of calling you names than it is to come up with your own position on an issue -- particularly on an issue you say you support, but somehow can't put into words.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


STOP IT....You're killing me here!

 

[IrishLax]

In my district, there was a "sting" video of a field director for my rep talking to a guy about how to get around Virginia voter ID laws with utility bills, forged documents, etc. to commit voter fraud and have a guy cast multiple ballots. In the videos he's hesitant to talk to the guy about it and urges him to spend his effort getting out the vote in a legal way, but at the end offers advice and says he's "impressed." Guy later said he thought the guy was "joking" and then that he thought he was "acting crazy" so he "humored" him. No charges were filed after the guy who did the film wouldn't cooperate with police or testify.

Voter ID laws do disproportionately affect minorities. And there is no evidence to suggest that IN PERSON voter fraud has any tangible impact on election results. Hypothetically, mass absentee fraud would be efficient enough to have an impact, which is why that is usually the type of fraud pursued by someone trying to fix an election.

Ex-aide to Miami Rep. Joe Garcia to head to jail in absentee-ballot case - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

Here are some bigger questions:

-With every citizen having a SSN, I'm kind of miffed that there isn't already some national photo identification program tied to social security cards. Everyone already gets a social security card by default... and something near 90% of adults already have a driver's license or other Government photo ID... how hard can it possibly be to get that other 10% identification? We are one of the few countries that DON'T require citizens to possess identification. Strangely, off the top of my head it's North America (i.e. the US, Canada, and Mexico) and some of Europe (United Kingdom, Italy, and I think France and some Scandinavian countries) that are the few without compulsory identification. Seems like for a lot of reasons, such as if the draft were to ever come back around and with every adult required to register with the selective service when they become an adult, that it'd be a good idea for everyone to have identification.

-When dealing with absentee fraud, I'm not really sure the best way to police it, but I do think that's one area that at least warrants discussion on laws to ensure veracity in the process if it's going to be expanded with the proliferation fo technology.

 

[Wild Bill]

Is that based on some modern reporting or are we going back a 150 years?

You can do a google search on your own. Why waste your time, though. I'm sure anything you find will be dismissed as racist.

Are you suggesting we should make laws that keep potentially millions of people from voting based off of the information you just posted?

Are you suggesting millions of minorities are simply incapable of meeting minimal voting requirements?

Show me convictions of people who committed in person voter fraud. Heck, even show me arrest records. We can't make laws based off of urban myths or political corruption dating back to Boss Tweed.

You'd fit right in here. Just remember, "vote early and often".

 

[GoIrish41]

Just as I need a photo ID to get a gun permit, each citizen should show a photo ID in exercising their right to vote. Person A and persn B have to go through the same processes to get a gun permit. The same principle needs to be applied to voting. It's not the Republicans' fault that thousands of Democratic voters have no ID. It's also false that every voter without an ID is Democrat or a minority.

Many states adopted plans for FREE voter ID cards. Others offered plans where the ID is actually brought to your house.

The problem is you're stuck in this belief that we still live in 1952.

Voter id laws attack a problem that does not exist. I thought you guys hated big government intrusion. Gun registration is to ensure guns used in crimes can be tracked . Why should the same be applied to voting? Nobody dies when a vote is cast. You are turning into a big government advocate. Lol

 

[connor_in]

You can do a google search on your own. Why waste your time, though. I'm sure anything you find will be dismissed as racist.



Are you suggesting millions of minorities are simply incapable of meeting minimal voting requirements?



You'd fit right in here. Just remember, "vote early and often".

In Chicago are you required to show a death certificate when you vote?

 

[connor_in]

Drug laws attack a problem that does not exist.

Gun laws attack a problem that does not exist.

Tax laws attack a problem that does not exist.

Healthcare laws attack a problem that does not exist.

Discrimination laws attack a problem that does not exist.

Driving laws attack a problem that does not exist.

FIFY

 

[GoIrish41]

You can do a google search on your own. Why waste your time, though. I'm sure anything you find will be dismissed as racist.



Are you suggesting millions of minorities are simply incapable of meeting minimal voting requirements?



You'd fit right in here. Just remember, "vote early and often".

Oh so you are jus speculating and have nothing to back up your assertion.

I`m suggesting that making millions of PEOPLE have a new requirement to fix a nonexistent problem is stupid, expensive and self serving for the GOP.

Your last line is a joke that might have been clever if this was actually happening.