Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

Polish Leppy 22

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Some of you guys sound like the ACA is gonna cause the earth to burst into flames.

It's already doing a helluva lot more damage than it is good, and it will continue to get worse. This is what conservatives and libertarians have been saying since 2009 would happen, and it is happening. Only difference now is reality has hit home, people are seeing the consequences, and it's only the beginning.

Think back to 2009 when Pelosi and co were begging for Republican bipartisanship on this? Why? So when things got real $hitty (and they are), Dems would be able to share blame with Republicans on it. Not one Republican voted for it, so this one is alllllll on the Dems. Case closed. It was your design, your majority, all your votes, backdoor deals, your utopian promises...now eat it.
 

Ndaccountant

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respectfully, i'm not buying your analogy but i get what your saying...as i see it, the federal govt is making sure that the guy who bought the NEON if god forbid gets in a head on collison with an 18 wheeler and is in a hosptial for 6 months, cant work, cant feed his family wont go bankrupt with all the hospital bills if he is insured. (no lifetime caps). his insurance will cover it now (and by the way at no taxpayer expense).

So, that extra medicare tax included in the aca was just in there for fun? What about the medical device tax?

Do nothing was not an option. The aca, imo, shifts the problem from one bucket to another.
 

Ndaccountant

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Wouldn't he have a point if the ACA lowered costs increases, say from 10%/yr to 2%/yr?

Not a fan of ACA at all, but your thinking is off here.

The problem is, you can never prove what would happen without the aca. One could argue that without it, the increase would have been smaller. Truth is, nobody knows and it would be impossible to prove one way or another.
 

enrico514

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iknownothing.jpg
 

ACamp1900

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I think that's a big part of the divide... Some recognize American citizens weren't supposed to be dealing with all these arms of the Federal Gov ( almost all inefficient or corrupt) and sees even more coming down the road and are seriously ready to push the reset button... Whereas others view this as what America was always meant to be and are saying 'full steam ahead' regardless of any data, logic, or experience that would suggest otherwise....

I often wonder if that difference in philosophy will ultimately undo everything...
 
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Buster Bluth

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The problem is, you can never prove what would happen without the aca. One could argue that without it, the increase would have been smaller. Truth is, nobody knows and it would be impossible to prove one way or another.

True, but I think most reasonable people would be convinced if the drop was sudden.
 

NDFan4Life

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helluva way to go thru life as an Amercian citizen

i feel bad for you (no italics)

Actually, it's pretty cool.

They're all corrupt, and it will just be a matter of time before they're exposed. Some people would just shrug their shoulders and say, "that it's just the way things go". I get the satisfaction of saying "I told you so".
 

irishpat183

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helluva way to go thru life as an Amercian citizen

i feel bad for you (no italics)

LOL....The people to feel bad for are those that depend and trust big brother, my friend.

Don't feel bad for the self relient people...we don't need your sympathy
 

wizards8507

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LOL....The people to feel bad for are those that depend and trust big brother, my friend.

Don't feel bad for the self relient people...we don't need your sympathy

Amen. Articles like the one below make me really sad for the state of our country. Republicans are supposed to be heartless and cruel because families that used to get $668 in free money every month will now "only" be getting $632 every month... in free money... for not doing anything. And this "cut" is supposed to be heartless. A family of four eats 365 meals per month (3 meals per person per day * 4 people * 30.4 days in an average month) and they will now have to "fend for themselves" for 21 of those meals. People have become so dependent on the government that famililes who have to pay for just 5% of their own food are seen as a human rights victims, with MSNBC instigating the #GOPHungerGames trend on Twitter. Truly sad that work has lost its dignity and anyone who suggests that there IS dignity in work is met with consternation, hand-wringing, and accusations of mean-spirited cruelty.

47M Americans hit by food stamp cuts starting today
 

wizards8507

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"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."

-Winston Churchill

Funny because I just DID change the subject. You have nothing coherent to add on the ACA so I figured I'd toss out Food Stamps for discussion.

And since we're quoting Winston Churchill:

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

See what I did there?
 

irishpat183

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"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."

-Winston Churchill

So does this also apply to you?


remember, cuts both ways.


However, I do very much appeciate your point of view. It's what makes discussions like this possible. And what makes me the villian on IE
 

Irish Houstonian

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The problem is, you can never prove what would happen without the aca. One could argue that without it, the increase would have been smaller. Truth is, nobody knows and it would be impossible to prove one way or another.

Well, but not really. It's an actuarial fact that when plans cover more things/people, and lower their participants' total out-of-pocket costs, then those plans get more expensive. And the math has been done that there's no way all the new young/healthy participants forced-in through the Individual Mandate can offset these new costs.

Ergo, we can pretty much "prove" that the vast majority of plans will be more expensive under Obamacare then had they been otherwise without it. (Not accounting for taxpayer subsidies at the individual level).
 

wizards8507

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Well, but not really. It's an actuarial fact that when plans cover more things/people, and lower their participants' total out-of-pocket costs, then those plans get more expensive. And the math has been done that there's no way all the new young/healthy participants forced-in through the Individual Mandate can offset these new costs.

Ergo, we can pretty much "prove" that the vast majority of plans will be more expensive under Obamacare then had they been otherwise without it. (Not accounting for taxpayer subsidies at the individual level).

Especially when there's no way to enforce the individual mandate and the net number of young/healthy participants enrolled in a plan is actually decreasing. The young/healthy participants generally had bare bones basic plans that are now illegal because they're not "robust" enough. The fine for noncompliance is much cheaper than enrolling in one of the "new and improved" plans so young/healthy people will opt for the (uncollectible) fine rather than enrollment.
 
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Cackalacky

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Amen. Articles like the one below make me really sad for the state of our country. Republicans are supposed to be heartless and cruel because families that used to get $668 in free money every month will now "only" be getting $632 every month... in free money... for not doing anything. And this "cut" is supposed to be heartless. A family of four eats 365 meals per month (3 meals per person per day * 4 people * 30.4 days in an average month) and they will now have to "fend for themselves" for 21 of those meals. People have become so dependent on the government that famililes who have to pay for just 5% of their own food are seen as a human rights victims, with MSNBC instigating the #GOPHungerGames trend on Twitter. Truly sad that work has lost its dignity and anyone who suggests that there IS dignity in work is met with consternation, hand-wringing, and accusations of mean-spirited cruelty.

47M Americans hit by food stamp cuts starting today
Your assertion that people on food stamps aren't or won't work is sad. Many do work and aren't making a livable wage.
 

BobD

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Amen. Articles like the one below make me really sad for the state of our country. Republicans are supposed to be heartless and cruel because families that used to get $668 in free money every month will now "only" be getting $632 every month... in free money... for not doing anything. And this "cut" is supposed to be heartless. A family of four eats 365 meals per month (3 meals per person per day * 4 people * 30.4 days in an average month) and they will now have to "fend for themselves" for 21 of those meals. People have become so dependent on the government that famililes who have to pay for just 5% of their own food are seen as a human rights victims, with MSNBC instigating the #GOPHungerGames trend on Twitter. Truly sad that work has lost its dignity and anyone who suggests that there IS dignity in work is met with consternation, hand-wringing, and accusations of mean-spirited cruelty.

47M Americans hit by food stamp cuts starting today

Feed yourself or better yet try feeding a growing kid on 5 bucks a day then come back with your opinion. Our problem has NOTHING to do with the amount of money we use to help people in need, it has to do with the lack of REAL support we offer. Public assistance should come with expectations, education and accountability.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Amen. Articles like the one below make me really sad for the state of our country. Republicans are supposed to be heartless and cruel because families that used to get $668 in free money every month will now "only" be getting $632 every month... in free money... for not doing anything. And this "cut" is supposed to be heartless. A family of four eats 365 meals per month (3 meals per person per day * 4 people * 30.4 days in an average month) and they will now have to "fend for themselves" for 21 of those meals. People have become so dependent on the government that famililes who have to pay for just 5% of their own food are seen as a human rights victims, with MSNBC instigating the #GOPHungerGames trend on Twitter. Truly sad that work has lost its dignity and anyone who suggests that there IS dignity in work is met with consternation, hand-wringing, and accusations of mean-spirited cruelty.

47M Americans hit by food stamp cuts starting today

Smh. Totally missing the point.
 

Wild Bill

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Feed yourself or better yet try feeding a growing kid on 5 bucks a day then come back with your opinion. Our problem has NOTHING to do with the amount of money we use to help people in need, it has to do with the lack of REAL support we offer. Public assistance should come with expectations, education and accountability.

I lived off $5 bucks a day after I graduated. I didn't have a choice. Four hard-boiled eggs for breakfast, can a tuna for lunch and can for dinner. Hate tuna now. Bright side - got leaner and felt sexier about myself.

I agree with your general point about expectations, education and accountability. We should be worried less about how much people are getting and more about how to get people off of them.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."

-Winston Churchill

Churchill would despise the modern Left, as would JFK and MLK.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --- Thomas Jefferson
 
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Cackalacky

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Churchill would despise the modern Left, as would JFK and MLK.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --- Thomas Jefferson

That is not a direct quote and does not appear in anything Jefferson wrote per Monticello.org
Earliest known appearance in print: 1986[1][2]

Earliest known appearance in print, attributed to Jefferson: See above.

Other attributions: None known.

Status: This exact quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It bears a very vague resemblance to Jefferson's comment in a prospectus for his translation of Destutt de Tracy's Treatise on Political Economy: "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, —the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"[3]
An eloquent idea however it only addresses work and not an inability to do so.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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My name is not Michael Barone and I am not a writer for the Washington Examiner, but I laughed out loud when I saw this published today. Written specifically for my boys BobD and Bluto out in Cali!! Hahahahaha


Americans Keep Moving to States With Low Taxes and Housing Costs

By Michael Barone - November 1, 2013


Where are Americans moving, and why? Timothy Noah, writing in the Washington Monthly, professes to be puzzled. He points out that people have been moving out of states with high per capita incomes -- Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland -- to states with lower income levels.

"Why are Americans by and large moving away from economic opportunity rather than toward it?" he asks.



Actually, it's not puzzling at all. The movement from high-tax, high-housing-cost states to low-tax, low-housing-cost states has been going on for more than 40 years, as I note in my new book Shaping Our Nation: How Surges of Migration Transformed America and Its Politics.

Between 1970 and 2010, the population of New York state increased from 18 million to 19 million. In that same period, the population of Texas increased from 11 million to 25 million.

The picture is even starker if you look at major metro areas. The New York metropolitan area, including counties in New Jersey and Connecticut, increased from 17.8 million in 1970 to 19.2 million in 2010 -- up 8 percent. During that time, the nation grew 52 percent.

In the same period, the four big metro areas in Texas -- Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin -- grew from 6 million to 15.6 million, a 160 percent increase.

Contrary to Noah's inference, people don't move away from opportunity. They move partly in response to economic incentives, but also to pursue dreams and escape nightmares.

Opportunity does exist in the Northeastern states and in California -- for people with very high skill levels and for low-skill immigrants, without whom those metro areas would have lost, rather than gained, population over the last three decades.

But there's not much opportunity there for people with midlevel skills who want to raise families. Housing costs are exceedingly high, partly, as Noah notes, because of restrictive land use and zoning regulations.

And central city public schools, with a few exceptions, repel most middle-class parents.

High taxes produce revenues to finance handsome benefits and pensions for public employee union members in the high-cost states. It's hard to see how this benefits middle-class people making their livings in the private sector.

Moreover, Noah's use of per capita incomes is misleading, since children typically have no income and many in the Northeast and coastal California are childless. If you look at household incomes, these states are far closer to the national average.

As economist Tyler Cowen points out in a Time magazine cover story, when you adjust incomes for tax rates and cost of living, Texas comes out ahead of California and New York and ranks behind only Virginia and Washington state (which, like Texas, has no state income tax).

Critics charge that Texas's growth depends on the oil and gas industries and is weighted toward low-wage jobs. But in fact, Texas's low-tax, light-regulation policies have produced a highly diversified economy that from 2002 to 2011 created nearly one-third of the nation's highest-paying jobs. In those years, its number of upper- and middle-income jobs grew 24 percent.

Liberals like Noah often decry income inequality. But the states with the most unequal incomes and highest poverty levels these days are California and New York. That's what happens when high taxes and housing costs squeeze out the middle class.

As Noah notes, "Few working-class people earn enough money to live anywhere near San Francisco."

This leaves a highly visible and articulate upper class willing, in line with their liberal beliefs, to shoulder high tax burdens and a very much larger lower class -- many of them immigrants -- available to serve them in restaurants, landscape their gardens and valet-park their cars.

There's nothing wrong with living in a high-rise, restaurant-studded, subway-served neighborhood (I do). It's great that America offers more such options than one and two generations ago.

But it's foolish to try to cram everyone into such surroundings, as the Obama Department of Housing and Urban Development (as Terry Eastland reports in the Weekly Standard) and California Governor, Jerry Brown, are trying to do.

Noah notes correctly that fewer Americans have been moving recently. That's always true in times of economic distress (the Okies' trek along U.S. Route 66 to California's Central Valley in the 1930s was a memorable exception, not the rule).

But they continue to move to the low-tax states that are providing jobs and living space where they can pursue their dreams and escape places that burden them with high costs and provide few middle-class amenities in return.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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That is not a direct quote and does not appear in anything Jefferson wrote per Monticello.org
An eloquent idea however it only addresses work and not an inability to do so.

I didn't know that. Seems like the same principle/ idea is there, maybe in different text. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
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Cackalacky

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I didn't know that. Seems like the same principle/ idea is there, maybe in different text. Thanks for pointing it out.

I didn't point out that it does not mention democracy or ceasing to exist and was a translation of text written by a Frenchman. No problem.
 
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