Who is Likely Next (2013)

[DomeLover3]

We all watch the same games. You're showing your hard on for Slaughter.

You're showing your ignorance...

How can you have watched ND football and say you'd rather someone who could turn out to be a bust to a sure thing/great player like Jamoris.

You won't last very long on this board picking fights with respected posters.

 

[McGlovin]

Can I know what I said that was ridiculous? I thought the point of the board was to be able to express opinions and discuss those opinions, whether they differ slightly or not. Not everyone is going to fully agree, and shouldn't be banned for disagreeing.

 

[DomeLover3]

Can I know what I said that was ridiculous? I thought the point of the board was to be able to express opinions and discuss those opinions, whether they differ slightly or not. Not everyone is going to fully agree, and shouldn't be banned for disagreeing.

I don't have a problem with what you've been saying.

 

[woolybug25]

Can I know what I said that was ridiculous? I thought the point of the board was to be able to express opinions and discuss those opinions, whether they differ slightly or not. Not everyone is going to fully agree, and shouldn't be banned for disagreeing.

No one is banning you, newbert. We're just saying that you and your newbert buddy should read the board a bit more.

 

[NDBoiler]

Grace will be an upperclassman next year and Diaco gushed praises about all his attributes earlier in the year. If Grace is what Diaco says he should start at ILB next year.
Moore should be able to fill Carlo's roll as a thumper in the run game.

There is usually a transfer or two and there could be a decommit or two. There should be room for both Slaughter and Redfield. In a perfect world Slaughter schooling Redfield for a year would have big benifits. I don't see us passing on Redfield if he wants in. And I see us accepting one of the three offensive playmakers we're pursuing.

I hope this comes true. I also think there is a greater probability of having enough room for both Slaughter and Redfield than for Slaughter to even be granted his 6th year. If Slaughter is granted the 6th year, he is not the one I would expect the coaching staff to turn away if it came to needing to turn graduates away. It would be Carlo or Fox. Unfortunate, but most likely IMO.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

C'mon man -- it's not like their opinion is worth less because they don't read IE enough.

 

[Buster Bluth]

.

 

[irishog77]

I had a conversation (in some random thread) with OMM about secondary leadership a couple weeks ago and lamenting the void of it for next year. After pondering on it some more, I think I may have changed my tune. Yes, I think leadership is needed and yes, I think it's very important. The fact is, though, 3 out of 4 of the secondary starters next year will be returning, battle tested, starters. If Slaughter comes back, that would mean all 4 of them are returning starters. Obviously that doesn't mean they still don't need support, but leadership won't be as critical next year as it is this year, IMHO.

Slaughter was definitely better than Farley when the season began, that's why he started ahead of him. Would he still be better today without the injury? Yeah, probably so. Sometimes, though, people just need an opportunity to show what they are capable of. And I think Farley has really stepped up. And he's only been playing safety less than a year. He SHOULD only get better and better.

I understand peoples reluctant to put all their eggs in the Redfield basket-- there are definitely unknowns. But with Slaughter, there is a giant unknown as well-- his health. Achilles' injuries can be brutal to return from. There is zero guarantee Slaughter will be the player NEXT SEASON that he's been the past couple of seasons. Guessing conservatively, I'd be willing to bet he's 80-85% of the player he's been. And we have to at least in some way acknowledge that Baratti, Shumate, Prosise, Hardy, Farley, Collinsworth, et al will only be getting better. Redfield could (yes, COULD, not WILL) be a game changer at Safety for years to come at ND. With the way the coaches have recruited and devloped, and the unknown about Slaughter's health and ability next year, I say Redfield over Slaughter if it comes down to absolutely having to choose between the 2.

 

[Irishnuke]

I had a conversation (in some random thread) with OMM about secondary leadership a couple weeks ago and lamenting the void of it for next year. After pondering on it some more, I think I may have changed my tune. Yes, I think leadership is needed and yes, I think it's very important. The fact is, though, 3 out of 4 of the secondary starters next year will be returning, battle tested, starters. If Slaughter comes back, that would mean all 4 of them are returning starters. Obviously that doesn't mean they still don't need support, but leadership won't be as critical next year as it is this year, IMHO.

Slaughter was definitely better than Farley when the season began, that's why he started ahead of him. Would he still be better today without the injury? Yeah, probably so. Sometimes, though, people just need an opportunity to show what they are capable of. And I think Farley has really stepped up. And he's only been playing safety less than a year. He SHOULD only get better and better.

I understand peoples reluctant to put all their eggs in the Redfield basket-- there are definitely unknowns. But with Slaughter, there is a giant unknown as well-- his health. Achilles' injuries can be brutal to return from. There is zero guarantee Slaughter will be the player NEXT SEASON that he's been the past couple of seasons. Guessing conservatively, I'd be willing to bet he's 80-85% of the player he's been. And we have to at least in some way acknowledge that Baratti, Shumate, Prosise, Hardy, Farley, Collinsworth, et al will only be getting better. Redfield could (yes, COULD, not WILL) be a game changer at Safety for years to come at ND. With the way the coaches have recruited and devloped, and the unknown about Slaughter's health and ability next year, I say Redfield over Slaughter if it comes down to absolutely having to choose between the 2.

This is a huge part. I know there is a chance Redfield doesn't develop into an elite safety. There is also a good chance Slaughter gets seriously injured again, and then we're stuck with nothing. If I'm picking there is no way I turn down Max. JMHO.

 

[aubeirish]

Wooly?

 

[Old Man Mike]

The issues here are not about talent --- we are LOADED with talent both at corner and safety [heck, Baratti can't even get on the field, and Shumate barely can; Prosise was "scheduled" to get DOG looks just to get him some playing time somewhere]. The issue is on-the-field Brains === i,e, defensive "quarterbacking".

Harrison was the best in the business at that last year, and Motta is working incredibly hard [and usually successfully] herding his "pups" around. THAT is what we need for next year. Corners usually cannot do this job, just because of pre-snap geometry. It has to be either a safety or a very unusual and mobile linebacker [maybe Kuechly could have done it].

I do not believe that veteranship of Farley, Russell, or Jackson will include this trait by next season. Is this in Slaughter's MO? It hasn't yet been, but one could imagine that he'd be ready for the role. Can Collinsworth do it? Is Shumate or Baratti that good a student of the game? Diaco and Elliot know the answers to some of this already. They know who has the brains for it. This could be a reason that they're giving Jamoris' 6th year a shot.

 

[ChiRish]

It really is a mute point considering the staff is obviously trying to get him the 6th year. They have already made their decision and I have full faith in the staff. With that said please don't forget that we have had "leaders" and "veterans" in the secondary for the past few seasons and to be frank.....nothing to brag about....much to complain about. I think this year proves that it might be better to have athleticism than experience. IMO of course!

Right, because the experience we've had this year has been such a detriment. We have a top 5 defense full of experience in every position group. That allows for leadership from "mini captains" everywhere. You can't just throw the Rivals All Stars back there and hope for the best. I guarantee KeiVarae and Bennett would be the first to tell you how invaluable Motta has been, and I'm sure Motta would have said the same about Jamoris or Harrison a few years back.

Thinking that highly touted freshmen can come in every year and "earn" their ranking by contributing right away is dangerous and represents all that is wrong with recruiting. First, it puts a ton of pressure on a kid to make a leap that is impossible for nearly every player out of high school. Second, it undervalues the importance that a college system has. Third, it undervalues the value that experienced players have in that system. And finally, it causes fans and teams to either give up or downgrade a young player for failing to perform up to their lofty standards to begin with.

To suggest that experience and leadership are less important than pure athleticism is embarrassingly asinine and defies everything we've come to learn about this season and sports in general. It's not even a matter of opinion; I would imagine that any reasonable objective analysis could disprove your point.

 

[ThePiombino]

I'm still trying to figure out what a mute point is...

 

[Emcee77]

Have we ever cut loose a fifth-year who was a key contributor during Kelly's tenure? The more I think about it the more I think that this debate is silly. All six contributing seniors who have fifth-years available are coming back if they want to (and in Jamoris's case, if they can). The only issues are whether Jamoris gets the sixth year and whether Martin, Wood or Watt goes pro.

But I can't really remember what guys didn't come back in 2010 or 2011 ... Let me know if you can think of anyone. Honestly curious.

 

[ChiRish]

I'm still trying to figure out what a mute point is...

What is should have been, if we take it literally...

 

[PraetorianND]

I'm still trying to figure out what a mute point is...

It's one you think but do not say.

 

[johnnykillz]

I'm still trying to figure out what a mute point is...

A point that cannot be heard.

Not to be confused with the "moot point," the commonly used version.

Lol.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I'm smelling a Vbuck bet.....

 

[Me2SouthBend]

If Slaughter is granted a medical redshirt for the year and is allowed back, you take him. Last year it was Harrison w 3 years of experience at the college level. This year it is Zeke with 3 years coming in, quarterbacking the D backfield. Next year, Jamoris would be that guy making the calls. I realize that Mathias, Kevarie and Bennett would all have 1 year under their belt, but it is only 1 year. Mathias (who has far exceeded my expectations to date) would likely be tasked with making all of the calls as ZM is doing this year. Is he/will he be ready to do that next year? I don't know, nor do any of those that post here. I'm quite sure Jamoris would be ready for that challenge. As it is, the D will be replacing a stud (KLM) on the front line, a legend who I needn't name in the LB corp and its current DB QB Zeke in the D Backfield. If Carlos, Foxxy and Jamoris aren't asked back, there is a lot of experience that needs to be replaced. Max is for sure an elite talent, and hopefully he is willing to come to ND and ND has room, but if Jamoris is granted the redshirt, you take it all day long. Having a 2 deep of Jamoris and Mathias starting with Collinsworth and Shumate would be tremendous. This would still allow for Nicky, CJ (if not moved to corner), John T., and Chris Badger available for additional depth. This also allows the staff to have Eilar, Lo and Jalen available for the 2 deep in the CB rotation. I'm sure I'm missing some players and this staff would still have the incoming freshman (that they have proven they can develop quickly) to have at their collective disposal as well.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I agree that sometimes some of us get caught up in potential aka natural ability... but I think others overvalue experience.

That said, Slaughter stays if possible. Good combo of experience & talent

 

[Irishman77]

Whats with all of the Noob ridiculousness going on today?

You two are showing your noobness.

I have a headache talking to you two...

Read more... post less...

Wooly I may rep your last 10 post when go through them again. Excellent ! I have a feeling we will see an overload of noobs as we win national championships.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Right, because the experience we've had this year has been such a detriment. We have a top 5 defense full of experience in every position group. That allows for leadership from "mini captains" everywhere. You can't just throw the Rivals All Stars back there and hope for the best. I guarantee KeiVarae and Bennett would be the first to tell you how invaluable Motta has been, and I'm sure Motta would have said the same about Jamoris or Harrison a few years back.

Thinking that highly touted freshmen can come in every year and "earn" their ranking by contributing right away is dangerous and represents all that is wrong with recruiting. First, it puts a ton of pressure on a kid to make a leap that is impossible for nearly every player out of high school. Second, it undervalues the importance that a college system has. Third, it undervalues the value that experienced players have in that system. And finally, it causes fans and teams to either give up or downgrade a young player for failing to perform up to their lofty standards to begin with.

To suggest that experience and leadership are less important than pure athleticism is embarrassingly asinine and defies everything we've come to learn about this season and sports in general. It's not even a matter of opinion; I would imagine that any reasonable objective analysis could disprove your point.

See Weis, Charlie.

 

[NDBoiler]

I'm smelling a Vbuck bet.....

I'll bet you 3 stacks of High Society Slaughter doesn't get his 6th year and we all wasted our breath debating this!

 

[NDdomer2]

Collinsworth getting no credit, and I'm with Boiler, doubtful this is even going to matter.

 

[woolybug25]

I'll bet you 3 stacks of High Society Slaughter doesn't get his 6th year and we all wasted our breath debating this!

I'll take that bet.

[/spits in hand and extends handshake]

 

[NDBoiler]

I'll take that bet.

[/spits in hand and extends handshake]

Deal, but no handshake you dirty fella.

 

[DomeLover3]

So... Nichols injury may be career threatening? Maybe he'll get a medical scholly... So we open up spots for

AQM
Redfield
Robinson

That'd be a nice finish to the class

 

[Old Man Mike]

Though not precisely "who's next?", the following certainly plays:

1). there are folks who seem to welcome news like "Tate Nichols has more physical problems", and may be through. [that last bit being very speculative, based on no knowledge]. Hey, wow, another scholarship! Well, let's think about how much of a Hey Wow that is.

2). Who, other than incoming freshmen do we have for the O-Line next season? There is Christian Lombard, and.... no other obvious returning starters. Then there is Matt Hegarty for center. Maybe let's put Ronnie Stanley in at one of the tackles. And OMG do we need Chris Watt and Zach Martin back!

Let's say, though, that Watt stays but ZMart goes. Then NMart has to replace his brother, or for some other array, the O-Line becomes Stanley/ Watt/ Hegarty/ NMart/ Lombard [or some mix].

O-Lines usually need at a minimum two [and that's really pushing it] or three ready-to-play back-ups. No Nichols/ Prestwood/ Carrico. Our only back-ups then are Harrell

, Hanratty [Guard], Heggie [Center/Guard]. And the frosh, which no coach in his right mind wants to waste a year of eligibility at this stage unless desperate-plus. NO TACKLES without internal shifting of the starters --- usually not an optimal in-season idea.

So, losing Nichols on top of the other guys is NOT a big winner in any evaluation of realtime 2013 optimization.

3). This is just another episode in the constant wrong-headed "enthusiasm" which goes on in this board about getting another fancy flyboy other than a lineman. Though not precisely identical, replacing Nichols with a DB or WR or RB reduces to exactly that. I am really hoping that the big man makes it fully back to functional lineplay, and there is no need next season to either juggle the line mid-season or burn a frosh year of eligibility. If Zach comes back this will [barring more than one injury or sickness] solve this problem, but, alas, we can't count on our super LT turning the pros down, with a degree in hand.​

 

[Emcee77]

I agree. Losing Tate Nichols is not a good thing. We have major depth issues on the O-line next year without him. Returning players could be Lombard, N. Martin, Hanratty, Hegarty, Harrell, Heggie, Stanley and THAT'S IT. Considering that Harrell may not be ready to play and Heggie probably never will, that is really freaking scary. Now we definitely need both Watt and Martin back, whereas before I would have been ok getting just one back.

It's great that we have 5 frosh coming in, but you don't want to have to rely on a true frosh O-lineman. You want them to have some time to develop physically.

It's amazing how fast things have changed with our OL depth. When people were freaking out about Taylor Decker flipping I thought we were totally fine at OL and didn't figure we needed him. After losing Prestwood, Carrico and now maybe Nichols, we are in a bad way. Damn you Urban.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Though not precisely "who's next?", the following certainly plays:

1). there are folks who seem to welcome news like "Tate Nichols has more physical problems", and may be through. [that last bit being very speculative, based on no knowledge]. Hey, wow, another scholarship! Well, let's think about how much of a Hey Wow that is.

2). Who, other than incoming freshmen do we have for the O-Line next season? There is Christian Lombard, and.... no other obvious returning starters. Then there is Matt Hegarty for center. Maybe let's put Ronnie Stanley in at one of the tackles. And OMG do we need Chris Watt and Zach Martin back!

Let's say, though, that Watt stays but ZMart goes. Then NMart has to replace his brother, or for some other array, the O-Line becomes Stanley/ Watt/ Hegarty/ NMart/ Lombard [or some mix].

O-Lines usually need at a minimum two [and that's really pushing it] or three ready-to-play back-ups. No Nichols/ Prestwood/ Carrico. Our only back-ups then are Harrell

, Hanratty [Guard], Heggie [Center/Guard]. And the frosh, which no coach in his right mind wants to waste a year of eligibility at this stage unless desperate-plus. NO TACKLES without internal shifting of the starters --- usually not an optimal in-season idea.

So, losing Nichols on top of the other guys is NOT a big winner in any evaluation of realtime 2013 optimization.

3). This is just another episode in the constant wrong-headed "enthusiasm" which goes on in this board about getting another fancy flyboy other than a lineman. Though not precisely identical, replacing Nichols with a DB or WR or RB reduces to exactly that. I am really hoping that the big man makes it fully back to functional lineplay, and there is no need next season to either juggle the line mid-season or burn a frosh year of eligibility. If Zach comes back this will [barring more than one injury or sickness] solve this problem, but, alas, we can't count on our super LT turning the pros down, with a degree in hand.​

I agree and IMO, this means Jones to the OL.​