Politics

[Bluto]

I agree with you Bob.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I don't see Romney as a machine or an evil person. I do see him as arrogant and self serving. I wouldn't believe for a second he wants to be President to fix America. I think he wants to be President because of his ego.

I know Obama has an ego too, but I feel deep down he really wants to help fix this country.

Obama the idealist > Romney the egotist

IMHO.

How do you see it?

Not like that, at all.

Dudes with egos don't quit their multi-billion dollar company to take a $1 salary and save the Olympic games. They don't tend to be a conservative and work with an 85% Democrat state legislature and fight tooth and nail over the budget and health care (while working for free, again). He could have been governor or Utah, with a lot less stress and probably more success, but he instead went to Massachusetts and solved the worst budget problem in its history.

Just sayin', if he's doing it all for the ego...there's an easier way to go about it.

Of course proving someone's motive is impossible. It's literally impossible to prove that he's not doing this for his ego. I can't disprove that. But, it doesn't really add up.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Rizzo, 0/18 is a tough day at the office. That is almost a Shaq Thompson-playing-baseball-level fail. If you want to take a couple days off, I understand.

NDAcct: gimme a little bit. I'm on my phone, so I'm not going to be able to put something together to that is worthy of the question. Also, its a rather complicated topic, and this board probably isn't the place to get into an exhaustive conversation about it. But I'll give it a shot tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Not like that, at all.

Dudes with egos don't quit their multi-billion dollar company to take a $1 salary and save the Olympic games. They don't tend to be a conservative and work with an 85% Democrat state legislature and fight tooth and nail over the budget and health care (while working for free, again). He could have been governor or Utah, with a lot less stress and probably more success, but he instead went to Massachusetts and solved the worst budget problem in its history.

Just sayin', if he's doing it all for the ego...there's an easier way to go about it.

Of course proving someone's motive is impossible. It's literally impossible to prove that he's not doing this for his ego. I can't disprove that. But, it doesn't really add up.

I would argue most politicians are in it for reasons other than "fixing problems". Both candidates have massive egos. But really, that shouldn't matter.

The thing I just can't get past in this election is how do we avoid becoming a European nanny state where growth is muted from what it could be and where people look outward, not inward, to solve problems.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

How about producing more, and sharing the wealth so taxes don't have to go up?

How would you propose one "share the wealth?"

 

[phgreek]

War with Iran probably happens irrespective of who wins the White House..

Amen...

this is going to happen...

 

[loomis41973]

You are welcome, what part exactly did you find funny?

Umm...the part i quoted. Totally delusional.

 

[magogian]

Finally, after a point there will be revolt in the streets. Look at what happened in Ireland; for years the English had more soldiers in Ireland guarding the removal of foodstuffs than it did for any "provencial skirmish." After 75 years look how that ended!

Yah, because that is an apt analogy for the US . . . . Seriously, man.

 

[magogian]

And people think Obama is in touch? His policies' impacts have a direct negative impact on the middle class. You think politically

I can get how Romney looks out of touch, and certainly like a "machine." He's not a very charismatic person; he's just a straight-shooting Mormon gentleman....and that's awkward-looking no doubt.

But a horrible human being? WTF? It's so sad how the media can write 5,000-word front page stories about someone being a bully in high school--and not care to print the part where the family of the "victim" says that the story is untrue. Or how we can twist "I like being able to fire people" from a conversation about being able to get rid of (i.e. fire) insurance plans that you don't like for your family/situation. Or how people can make ads about how Romney deliberately closes plants and ends up killing a woman of cancer despite nearly every statement in said ad being false.

You never hear how, when Romney's colleague had a missing child, Romney completely shut down operations at Bain and personally lead an effort in in New York to find said kid (and succeeded).

You don't hear so often about how he and his wife lived in a cheap basement apartment with their one-year old while he went to school at BYU. Not exactly millionaire/billionaire lifestyles--of course you wouldn't know that Romney's dad went out of his way to make sure that his children didn't grew up in a spoiled environment.

You probably don't read too much about how his social life at Harvard consisted solely of organizing study groups after which he earned his JD and MBA, simultaneously, while graduating top 5% in his class. Without coffee, mind you (since he's Mormon and all). So you don't hear how people who graduate from the world's finest law and business schools have the ability to found management firms and end up being worth ~$250mil.

Of course no one points out either that the Kennedy's were one of the richest families in America when he was President--worth roughly $1,000,000,000, or 4x when Romney's family is worth. And no out points out that Franklin Roosevelt was worth like $160mil. Or that Teddy Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson were both worth in excess of one hundred million. Or the Democratic candidate in 2004, John Kerry, is worth like $170mil. But no only Romney is out of touch. Get the f*ck out of here with that b*llshit.

Quoted for truth.

 

[magogian]

On a related note, I'm somewhat surprised with Romney's lead in this thread's poll.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How would you propose one "share the wealth?"

Putting people back to work at a living wage with reasonable benefits. Putting back enough of the accumulated capital generated from a healthy economy to make good for all of the larceny perpetrated on the American middle class, just the pensions, I am not even talking about the biggest bank heist of all times, which is what the housing market fiasco was; you can tell because wealth dropped at a greater rate the less you had. And restitution of the safeguards that keep lousy, whorish, thieves from stealing from honest people not able to protect themselves. No more; no less.

Amen...

this is going to happen...

Wishing for a war in Iran; and I am a delusionary? Loomis I am more than willing to drive you to your nearest recruit training depot. All you that want a war, (which I find thousands times more despicable than wishing for a favorite player to rise due to the injury of another), I hope you have the sense to volunteer. You would be doing the world a kind favor, and finally walking the walk instead of just talking the talk.

I would like to see all of your (you that called me names), credentials, that help you reach your advanced diagnosis. Instead, you all rely on the uncomfortable smarmy smiles of bullies, punctuated by a fool's the silence of ideas. Ireland is a perfect example, though stark, because the genocide was aimed at the undercasses. If you think that the underclasses aren't being persecuted here, you are wrong.

And if you think this county can wage war with Iran, who has some of the latest technology the Chinese have stolen, or been given by Corporate America, you are sorely mistaken. The US Military doesn't even know how much of a stealth advangage it maintains. Further, three reports prepared for the Pentagon stated that to wage further war, or war on Iran, the selective service would have to be geared up and a draft instituted. Add that to the calculations of your giant war machine. This war would hit the tipping point, privation would be iminent and great. With massive conscripted casualties and funny money, there would be wide-spread rioting, and with the first rioters killed the potential of armed insurrection. This is a no win scenario. Of all the things on the horizon, this pitfall would be one of the worst.

If you all want to go to war, send your sons or go yourself. I have had enough of it. And thanks to God, my kids won't go!

 

[JadeBrecks]

On a related note, I'm somewhat surprised with Romney's lead in this thread's poll.

Why is that? Obama has a hard time getting a lead on Romney and those polls are sampling democrats between 9-11% more. That is not propaganda either. It is listed with the polls. I think people highly underestimate Romney in this election.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Why is that? Obama has a hard time getting a lead on Romney and those polls are sampling democrats between 9-11% more. That is not propaganda either. It is listed with the polls. I think people highly underestimate Romney in this election.

Well, I don't know which is right or which is wrong, but Dick Morris explains the difference between the two polls here.....Don’t Believe Poll Propaganda at DickMorris.com.

The real numbers, of likely voters are found in the Rasmussen Polls which had Romney ahead by three yesterday and four today. Gallup, which surveys registered voters (as opposed to likely voters) has the race tied at 46-46.

There are several factors which explain the difference:

1. Obama’s voters don’t want to come out and vote for him. They are only lukewarm and are not people who always vote. Cynical and apathetic, they do not begin to approximate the intensity of the Romney voters or even of the 2008 Obama backers.

2. Black turnout is traditionally 11% of the total vote. In 2008, rose to 14%, providing Obama with more than half of his margin of victory. Current polls suggest a reversion to the pre-2008 turnout level, but polling firms that do not measure voter intention can’t tell that and weight the black vote up to 12, 13, or even 14 percent, padding Obama’s vote artificially.

3. Likewise with Latino vote which was 7% of the vote and grew to 8.5% in 2008. Their votes this time show signs of returning to historic norms

4. Polls of registered voters tend to weight up the Democratic respondents, according their opinions more weight in the poll. That’s because their data usually shows fewer Democrats in their sample than in national registration figures. But, in weighting for party, they obscure the fact that a great many registered Democrats have left the Party, particularly in the past few years, a finding that is obliterated by the weighting..

 

[Bubba]

1. Obama’s voters don’t want to come out and vote for him. They are only lukewarm and are not people who always vote. Cynical and apathetic, they do not begin to approximate the intensity of the Romney voters or even of the 2008 Obama backers.

I have no idea how this is happening, because it is all I hear everywhere I go. I've had to block several people on my facebook news feed (even family) because I'm tired of hearing about how awful our country is because of President Obama. It is as if he is the reason for all of our mistakes even though this mess started long before he came into office. He may have not been the best President over the last 3 and a half years, but the complaining is at an all-time high.

 

[JadeBrecks]

I have no idea how this is happening, because it is all I hear everywhere I go. I've had to block several people on my facebook news feed (even family) because I'm tired of hearing about how awful our country is because of President Obama. It is as if he is the reason for all of our mistakes even though this mess started long before he came into office. He may have not been the best President over the last 3 and a half years, but the complaining is at an all-time high.

Complaining is at an all time high because we are at an all time low (for most of us).he may have inherited a bad situation but he has done almost everything he said to fix this problem. All those things were supposed to turn the ship around. Instead even with all his stuff we are heading in the wrong direction and most people are worse off than when he started. That is why i believe everyone is as cutthroat against Obama as they are. Those who followed him were promised greatness and are now feeling empty handed.

 

[Bubba]

Complaining is at an all time high because we are at an all time low (for most of us).he may have inherited a bad situation but he has done almost everything he said to fix this problem. All those things were supposed to turn the ship around. Instead even with all his stuff we are heading in the wrong direction and most people are worse off than when he started. That is why i believe everyone is as cutthroat against Obama as they are. Those who followed him were promised greatness and are now feeling empty handed.

It is strange to me that everyone has these feelings. Everyone I know is actually doing better than they were 4 years ago. Either found a job, earned a promotion, at least gotten pay raises. I am finally digging out of the hole I was in from 2006 to 2008 thanks to losing my job to downsizing. Everyone I know is in a better situation now than they were as he was coming into office.

Obama admitted he under-estimated how difficult it is to get things done in DC. They just don't work well together for fear that the other side will get some credit for something. Instead of focusing on what they do well, each party is focused on what the other side does wrong.

 

[BobD]

"We have a president, who I think is a nice guy, but he spent too much time at Harvard, perhaps." —Mitt Romney, who has two Harvard degrees (April 5, 2012)

 

[Bubba]

BTW, nobody should be surprised by promises not kept, especially from politicians. Remember what GW said... Fool me once, shame on you... ? Uh, I can't get fooled again!!


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[loomis41973]

"Loomis I am more than willing to drive you to your nearest recruit training depot. "

Will i need a tinfoil hat? and wtf does that have to do with i posted?

 

[BobD]

On a related note, I'm somewhat surprised with Romney's lead in this thread's poll.

I'm not. Think about it......Obama is pro-gay, pro-abortion and this is a Notre Dame football site. I think our vote here is a very small but telling snap shot of why Obama wins easily. If he can get this high of a percentage of votes, from a traditionally conservative group like this, he'll toast Romney almost everywhere else.

 

[MJ12666]

From reading some of these posts I am a little surprised as to the lack of understanding regarding the structure of our government. For example, the only way the president can create jobs is to take the funds allocated by congress to the departments under presidential control, as which point the President can hire individuals (usually major campaign contributors or other cronies) for positions within these departments. Other then that he has no authority under the constitution to appropriate any funds for job creation. Nor does he have the authority to unilaterally change the tax code. He can propose changes but ultimately congress passes legislation regarding the tax code; and if you think congress is going to make major changes you are really dreaming.

With that said, what I really like about Obama is how he jogs up and down stairs. One day we are all going to get a good laugh when he trips and takes a header.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

"Loomis I am more than willing to drive you to your nearest recruit training depot. "

Will i need a tinfoil hat? and wtf does that have to do with i posted?

No, as I remember they will supply you with everything you need. Why you? The smart guys that figure they will sit on the sidelines usually get it first.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I'm not. Think about it......Obama is pro-gay, pro-abortion and this is a Notre Dame football site. I think our vote here is a very small but telling snap shot of why Obama wins easily. If he can get this high of a percentage of votes, from a traditionally conservative group like this, he'll toast Romney almost everywhere else.

Catholics traditionally vote Democratic. In 2008, depending on the polling group, Catholics voted 53-57% for Obama.

 

[Rizzophil]

Catholics traditionally vote Democratic. In 2008, depending on the polling group, Catholics voted 53-57% for Obama.

That was exactly my point in my previous post. The media isn't reporting all of the Catholic businesses, Catholic hospitals, and the like that are suing the federal government. This is huge news regarding Catholics, ObamaCare, and the November election. I can't believe more people aren't waking up to this fact.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

I have no idea how this is happening, because it is all I hear everywhere I go. I've had to block several people on my facebook news feed (even family) because I'm tired of hearing about how awful our country is because of President Obama. It is as if he is the reason for all of our mistakes even though this mess started long before he came into office. He may have not been the best President over the last 3 and a half years, but the complaining is at an all-time high.

All time high? Were you paying attention in 2008? George W. Bush was the devil. Usually the party that does not have the Presidency will be the side you hear from come election season, because of their fundamental opposition to the policies of the incumbent.

BO has had long enough. Stop blaming the previous administration for the reality that your policies did not make impactful change. That said, I am fearful that Romney is not a candidate that can energize the independent and passive Republican vote. I'm predicting a 2-3 point margin in favor of Obama in the popular vote. Ryan gets on the national radar for a run in 2016.

 

[Buster Bluth]

From reading some of these posts I am a little surprised as to the lack of understanding regarding the structure of our government. For example, the only way the president can create jobs is to take the funds allocated by congress to the departments under presidential control, as which point the President can hire individuals (usually major campaign contributors or other cronies) for positions within these departments. Other then that he has no authority under the constitution to appropriate any funds for job creation. Nor does he have the authority to unilaterally change the tax code. He can propose changes but ultimately congress passes legislation regarding the tax code; and if you think congress is going to make major changes you are really dreaming.

With that said, what I really like about Obama is how he jogs up and down stairs. One day we are all going to get a good laugh when he trips and takes a header.

I'm surprised people don't realize that the way the government is structured and the way the government functions are two different things.

But most (sane) people don't want the President to create jobs per se, America needs a President who can skillfully bring a level of efficiency to the federal government. Most regulations aren't inherently bad, not at all. But the sheer size and nonexistent organization of departments and redtape inhibits business growth and encourages corporations to outsource and/or grow in other parts of the world instead of here.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Ahh yes thats exactly the liberal argument, good to know you pay attention to more than just Fox News

No. While Fox News is entertaining, my source of information comes from the liberal wackos that I have to deal on a regular bases in my policy courses..etc that are taught by neomarxist nut jobs.

Here are the top 5 favorite arguments of liberals

1. Competition is horrible and adverse to kids. (I.e. everyone gets to play in the game, no "F's", no red ink, and worst of all; no dodgeball)

2. It violates the selfworth of those on welfare to have work "requirments". You should not be forced into working.

3. All cops are racist. Penalties to harsh. And rehabilitation over punishment. So, now we have out of this world recidivism statistics, terrorized victims with no closure, and absolutely no accountability on the offender because it is societies "macroforces" that give no other alternative for the individual to terrorize society.

4. Raise taxes and increase spending along with the size of government. But hey, who cares if we are trillions of dollars in debt, we'll just tax someone with money to pay for these government programs that have never, and will never be succesful and uncorrupt. Great idea.

5. So judgemental. I practice MMA (Muay Thai to be exact) and had to miss a class with a really bad black eye. Professor Flower Marx found out and roasted me in front of the whole class calling me names like barbaric, hateful, and a disgrace to intelligence.

Bonus: Political correctness. I despise political correctness for the obvious reasons. We should beable to label a duck, a duck.

So please don't try to insult my intelligence and assume that I am uninformed because I disagree with your opinion, it's not very tolerant of you, is it?

 

[BobD]

Catholics traditionally vote Democratic. In 2008, depending on the polling group, Catholics voted 53-57% for Obama.

Your 100% right. Thats why I didn't say Catholic. Not all Notre Dame fans are Catholic.

Catholics are usually divided in their vote. White/Non-hispanic Catholics tend to vote Republican, while Hispanic Catholics tend to vote Democrat, the latter is a growing group.

 

[Rhode Irish]

No. While Fox News is entertaining, my source of information comes from the liberal wackos that I have to deal on a regular bases in my policy courses..etc that are taught by neomarxist nut jobs.

Here are the top 5 favorite arguments of liberals

1. Competition is horrible and adverse to kids. (I.e. everyone gets to play in the game, no "F's", no red ink, and worst of all; no dodgeball)

2. It violates the selfworth of those on welfare to have work "requirments". You should not be forced into working.

3. All cops are racist. Penalties to harsh. And rehabilitation over punishment. So, now we have out of this world recidivism statistics, terrorized victims with no closure, and absolutely no accountability on the offender because it is societies "macroforces" that give no other alternative for the individual to terrorize society.

4. Raise taxes and increase spending along with the size of government. But hey, who cares if we are trillions of dollars in debt, we'll just tax someone with money to pay for these government programs that have never, and will never be succesful and uncorrupt. Great idea.

5. So judgemental. I practice MMA (Muay Thai to be exact) and had to miss a class with a really bad black eye. Professor Flower Marx found out and roasted me in front of the whole class calling me names like barbaric, hateful, and a disgrace to intelligence.

Bonus: Political correctness. I despise political correctness for the obvious reasons. We should beable to label a duck, a duck.

So please don't try to insult my intelligence and assume that I am uninformed because I disagree with your opinion, it's not very tolerant of you, is it?

I can't speak for these supposed wackos in your class, but I am a liberal and went to a liberal northeast college and law school in New York (probably the most liberal setting academia), and I neither hold, nor have I met anyone who holds, those views as you are articulating them. It is possible that your obvious bias is causing an inaccurate representation of their positions, or that they are particularly crazy. Still, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors by being so dismissive of people who don't think exactly like you do. I doesn't sound like you've made any effort to understand their actual arguments and where they are coming from.

edit: I'm going to amend this and broaden its scope from being specifically to tommyIRISH to being to a lot of posters on this board. I see a lot of mind-blowingly stupid things said in this thread that do not mesh at all with the reality that I know and love, and I obviously do not have the time or energy to waste responding to all of them. I will argue endlessly for the positions that I feel strongly about, but in general I do understand the intellectual underpinnings of conservatism and I try to be respectful of the views of people that are devoted to a political philosophy that differs from mine. It seems like a lot of supposed "conservatives" here are more influenced by the contemporary cultural underpinnings of conservatism than to the William F. Buckley conservatism I admire (but don't always agree with).

 

[JadeBrecks]

It is strange to me that everyone has these feelings. Everyone I know is actually doing better than they were 4 years ago. Either found a job, earned a promotion, at least gotten pay raises. I am finally digging out of the hole I was in from 2006 to 2008 thanks to losing my job to downsizing. Everyone I know is in a better situation now than they were as he was coming into office.

Obama admitted he under-estimated how difficult it is to get things done in DC. They just don't work well together for fear that the other side will get some credit for something. Instead of focusing on what they do well, each party is focused on what the other side does wrong.

I would have to say i don't know anyone better now than 4 years ago. My best off friends lost overtime at places that has had overtime like crazy since they started. Half my friends have had serious job threats during severe cutbacks at their companies. I have yet to have a friend who has list or didn't have a job get one. About 6 months ago i thought things around here were looking up. Unfortunately that has come to a screeching halt and dropped off a cliff. I am one of two guys who are out my companies doors when work comes in and between us two we can't get a full 40 hours combined. We are the second strongest electrical company in town. We used to employ 40 some electricians at our peak. We now only have 6 plus 2 apprentices and half of them aren't working. It is bad here and getting worse. 3.5 years and things have only gotten worse. That is why Obama supporters are abandoning ship so bad. He isn't even slowing the spiral and he promised them paradise.