Politics

[MJ12666]

But it sequestered an issue they started...

I am not sure who you are referring to as "they", but the sequester was compromise that was proposed by Obama and it turned out to be a good piece of legislation.

 

[MJ12666]

I'm not questioning the study or the findings, I'm just saying it doesn't match what I observe with my own eyes and ears. Maybe they should put their smarter people in front of the cameras and tell the stupid crew to pipe down a bit.

Do you really believe that the media are going to put on a interview with an intelligent spokesman? No, they are going to seek out someone who will make a controversial comment especially if the group is expressing ideas that they do not believe are valid. How about it I watch Louis Farrakhan give a speech and conclude that all African-Americans share the same views. Would that be accurate just because I personally heard the speech?

 

[BobD]

YALE STUDY: Tea Party members are more scientifically literate than non-Tea Party members

Here are some quotes from the great scholarly minds of the Tea Party:

"American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains." —Delaware GOP Senate candidate Christine O'Donnell, discussing cloning with Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly, 2007

"It is not enough to be abstinent with other people, you also have to be abstinent alone. The Bible says that lust in your heart is committing adultery. You can't masturbate without lust! ... You're going to be pleasing each other. And if he already knows what pleases him and he can please himself, then why am I in the picture?" —Christine O'Donnell, advocating against masturbation in a 1996 MTV interview

"I'm not a witch...I'm you." —Christine O'Donnell

"You know what, evolution is a myth. Why aren't monkeys still evolving into humans?" —Christine O'Donnell, during a 1998 appearance on Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect"


"I absolutely do not believe in the science of man-caused climate change. It's not proven by any stretch of the imagination...It's far more likely that it's just sunspot activity or just something in the geologic eons of time. Excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere 'gets sucked down by trees and helps the trees grow.'" —Wisconsin GOP Senate candidate Ron Johnson, Aug. 16, 2010

Here’s another Johnson jewel -- "I'm glad there is global warming."

”I just think my children, and your children, will be much better off, and much more successful getting married and raising a family. And I don’t want them to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid or successful option. It isn’t.”
—Carl Paladino, New York State Tea Party-backed candidate for Governor, Oct. 10, 2010

“The Federal Department of Education should be eliminated. The Department of Education is unconstitutional and should not be involved in education, at any level.”
—Sharron Angle, July 12, 2010

“There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design.” —Michele Bachmann

"Carbon dioxide is natural. It occurs in Earth. It is a part of the regular lifecycle of Earth. In fact, life on planet Earth can't even exist without carbon dioxide." – Michele Bachmann


“First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. . . But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. You know I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child”. – Rep. Paul Broun, of Georgia

"God's word is true. I've come to understand that. All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. And it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior." – Rep. Paul Broun, of Georgia

"The problem with AIDS is, you get it, you die, so why are we spending any money on people that get it[?]" – Denny Rehberg, GOP candidate for US Senate in Montana

"I believe God controls the universe…I don't believe biology works in an uncontrolled fashion." -- Richard Mourdock, GOP Senate candidate from Indiana

“If it is a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” – Todd Akin, GOP candidate for US Senate in Missouri

When a reporter noted that a survey published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found that 97 percent of climate-science researchers agree that human activities have contributed to global warming, Ralph Hall responded, "And they get $5,000 for every report like that they give out," adding, "I don't have any proof of that. But I don't believe 'em." Ralph Hall, a Texas representative, is the Chairman of the House Science Committee

"I do not believe that CO2 is a cause of global warming." – Rep Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif)

It's funny because the whole point of the linked study is that anecdotal quotes/examples of Tea Party member stupidity aren't necessarily indicative of Tea Party members as a whole being less intelligent than members of other political parties. That surprisingly, by objective measure Tea Party members as a whole graded out better in scientific literacy than their peers.

So your response is... to link anecdotes of Tea Party stupidity? You could do the same thing for members of literally every political party.

Throughout history the stupidest things have all been done by the supposedly smartest people.

 

[GoIrish41]

Damn liberal media!!! Seriously, the media doesn't have to seek out public figures who se to love the spotlight.

 

[connor_in]

Obamacare's Failure In One Chart | Zero Hedge

 

[Irish Houstonian]

See my post above.

With the exchanges now open, employers have the ability to cut spouses from coverage in the most extreme cases or charge more for them. The reason they are doing this is that changes in coverage over the last 2+ years have increased costs overall. But up until this point, employers really had no option but to suck it up, eat a good portion of it and pass along a portion of it. Now that the exchanges are open, they know there are other avenues to get insurance and are putting pressure on the individual to determine if it is worth it or not.

IMO, this was all by design in the ACA with the employer mandate with the ultimate goal of becoming single payer.

Yep. The number of large employers cutting coverage for "working spouses" (i.e., spouses already covered under their employers) will probably double, in direct response to increase costs under Obamacare. Obviously it's not "required" to dump someone from your plan under PPACA, but it's yet another, wonderful unintended consequence of this legislative marvel.

http://www.towerswatson.com/en/Insi...yer-Survey-on-Value-in-Purchasing-Health-Care

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I am not sure who you are referring to as "they", but the sequester was compromise that was proposed by Obama and it turned out to be a good piece of legislation.

Not for workers who were forced to take an unpaid day off each week for 8 weeks.

 

[BobD]

Obamacare's Failure In One Chart | Zero Hedge

California insurance exchange reports 94,500 application starts - latimes.com

 

[GoIrish41]

California insurance exchange reports 94,500 application starts - latimes.com

Bob that just fvcks up the pretty graphic. What is wrong with you man?

 

[phgreek]

California insurance exchange reports 94,500 application starts - latimes.com

...application starts???? Ill be sure to tell my wife she has 5 or 6 orgasm starts a week...because I kiss her goodbye every morning...

edit...wait...wait...wait...after rereading it is unclear if some of those restarted after initial failure...so im claiming 10-12 orgasm starts for my wife....hey I showed her this and she laughed...im claiming that one too

 

[potownhero]

Bob that just fvcks up the pretty graphic. What is wrong with you man?

Wow, you just proved what the Yale professor stated.

What don't you understand about Week one in the chart (Thru Oct 5.) and the fact that this article is from more than a week later?

Scientifically not very bright indeed - how hard is it to read a few dates?

 

[wizards8507]

California insurance exchange reports 94,500 application starts - latimes.com

But I thought there were "millions and millions and millions" of Americans who could never get insurance and are dying to do so. I don't know the current figure, but there were 7.1 million uninsured Californians in 2011. You're giddy because 1.3% of them have visited a website and STARTED an application? Success!

Only 5 states have cheaper offerings under the "Affordable" Care Act than what was already available in the marketplace.

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Inf...B-premium-exchange-by-state-table-1-1200.ashx

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Knew it

 

[GoIrish41]

But I thought there were "millions and millions and millions" of Americans who could never get insurance and are dying to do so. I don't know the current figure, but there were 7.1 million uninsured Californians in 2011. You're giddy because 1.3% of them have visited a website and STARTED an application? Success!

Only 5 states have cheaper offerings under the "Affordable" Care Act than what was already available in the marketplace.

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Inf...B-premium-exchange-by-state-table-1-1200.ashx

The open season for the exchanges lasts for six months. Let's discuss again when the enrollment season ends.

 

[wizards8507]

The open season for the exchanges lasts for six months. Let's discuss again when the enrollment season ends.

No. I think we should talk about it now. According to YOU, not me, but you, GoIrish41, there are hoardes of people who have been LITERALLY dying because they don't have health insurance and therefore have been left to fend for themselves against their various diseases and ailments. YOU said this, so YOU set the terms of the conversation. In your dire envrionment, the poxied and plagued masses would not be waiting six months until the enrollment season ends because they've wanted and needed this for so long and it's finally here! They're dying and desperate for this, right? They should be signing up IMMEDIATELY if the situation were as dire as you have presented. They would be literally busting down the doors, zombie-movie-style. But no, that type of behavior is reserved for the new Air Jordans, iPhone 5S, and Playstation 4.

 

[DSully1995]

The open season for the exchanges lasts for six months. Let's discuss again when the enrollment season ends.

Well enrollment season ends with either a policy or a fine... these numbers dont demonstrate too much enthusiasm however

 

[Rizzophil]

Republicans get blasted because they try and reduce the debt. Democrats 'win' because we can continue to tax and spend money we don't. Both parties suck and don't have a plan.

Consider this- three top three reasons for hyper inflation is 1) buying your own debt 2) borrowing money you don't have and 3) not changing the path to economic ruin we are on. We have all three things going for us.

Buckle up Americans - it's about to get real.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

But I thought there were "millions and millions and millions" of Americans who could never get insurance and are dying to do so. I don't know the current figure, but there were 7.1 million uninsured Californians in 2011. You're giddy because 1.3% of them have visited a website and STARTED an application? Success!

Only 5 states have cheaper offerings under the "Affordable" Care Act than what was already available in the marketplace.

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Inf...B-premium-exchange-by-state-table-1-1200.ashx

That 47 million number was a lie from the beginning but a lot of people ate that piece of pie right up. It's nowhere near 47 million.

 

[ND NYC]

my hunch would be that the folks with pre- existing conditions who prior to this law couldnt get health care are the ones signing up first for this.

the healthy, young folks who are madated to purchase the insuracne will be the ones who are in no rush to sign up and will be brought kicking and screaming into the program over time.

 

[ACamp1900]

If we don't so something... 500 million Americans will be out on the street...... remember?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

my hunch would be that the folks with pre- existing conditions who prior to this law couldnt get health care are the ones signing up first for this.

the healthy, young folks who are madated to purchase the insuracne will be the ones who are in no rush to sign up and will be brought kicking and screaming into the program over time.

The funny part (kind of) is that most of those young and healthy folks in my age group (18-30) voted for Obama once or twice, but had no idea what they were signing up for. It was the "cool" thing to do. The young get screwed the hardest in this deal.

 

[wizards8507]

Republicans get blasted because they try and reduce the debt. Democrats 'win' because we can continue to tax and spend money we don't. Both parties suck and don't have a plan.

Consider this- three top three reasons for hyper inflation is 1) buying your own debt 2) borrowing money you don't have and 3) not changing the path to economic ruin we are on. We have all three things going for us.

Buckle up Americans - it's about to get real.

This is the "image" problem that the Tea Party has. The media have painted the Tea Party as a more "extreme" version of the "mainstream" Republicans like Boehner and his friends when, in reality, the Tea Party is closer to the libertarian conservatism of Ron Paul than anything else. A perfect example of this is when Rand Paul had his fillibuster against drone strikes. The George Bush-style Republicans love things like drone strikes on American citizens overseas (or worse--see Patriot Act), but the Tea Party is far, far different than what the Republican Party has become.

 

[wizards8507]

my hunch would be that the folks with pre- existing conditions who prior to this law couldnt get health care are the ones signing up first for this.

the healthy, young folks who are madated to purchase the insuracne will be the ones who are in no rush to sign up and will be brought kicking and screaming into the program over time.

Right, and when all the sick people sign up for insurance and the healthy people don't bother, that's going to miraculously drive costs down. Just wait. Because... group policies... right?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Republicans get blasted because they try and reduce the debt. Democrats 'win' because we can continue to tax and spend money we don't. Both parties suck and don't have a plan.

Consider this- three top three reasons for hyper inflation is 1) buying your own debt 2) borrowing money you don't have and 3) not changing the path to economic ruin we are on. We have all three things going for us.

Buckle up Americans - it's about to get real.

Good points. And speaking of "buckle up", wait 10-20 years from now when our **** poor public education finally catches up with us. Wait till the group of people who are incapable of contributing in the job market outnumber the people who can contribute and be self-reliant.

Kids in American public schools today K-12 are outside the top 20 in the world in math and science, but they're getting A's in "collectivism", "cooperation", "social justice", and "Jen has two Mommies." Some of these kids will turn out well because of their intellect and work ethic, but I see the number of Occupiers and Starbucks employees with useless college degrees spiking in the next two decades.

 

[ND NYC]

The funny part (kind of) is that most of those young and healthy folks in my age group (18-30) voted for Obama once or twice, but had no idea what they were signing up for. It was the "cool" thing to do. The young get screwed the hardest in this deal.

this is true.
the youngest will be hit the hardest by ALL of the fiscal issues facing the US (not just Obamacare).
Druckenmiller (who was at ND not to long ago) is on a nationwide crusade of sorts trying to wake up that 18-30 generation to all this. very interesting column last week by Tom Friedman talking about that very point you bring up:


Sorry, Kids. We Ate It All.
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Eventually this shutdown crisis will end. And eventually the two parties will make another stab at a deal on taxes, investments and entitlements. But there’s one outcome from such negotiations that I can absolutely guarantee: Seniors, Wall Street and unions will all have their say and their interests protected. So the most likely result will be more tinkering around the edges, as our politicians run for the hills the minute someone accuses them of “fixing the deficit on the backs of the elderly” or creating “death panels” to sensibly allocate end-of-life health care. Could this time be different? Short of an economic meltdown, there is only one thing that might produce meaningful change: a mass movement for tax, spending and entitlement reform led by the cohort that is the least organized but will be the most affected if we don’t think long term — today’s young people.

Whether they realize it or not, they’re the ones who will really get hit by all the cans we’re kicking down the road. After we baby boomers get done retiring — at a rate of 7,000 to 11,000 a day — if current taxes and entitlement promises are not reformed, the cupboard will be largely bare for today’s Facebook generation. But what are the chances of them getting out of Facebook and into their parents’ faces — and demanding not only that the wealthy do their part but that the next generation as a whole leaves something for this one? Too bad young people aren’t paying attention. Or are they?
Wait! Who is that speaking to crowds of students at Berkeley, Stanford, Brown, U.S.C., Bowdoin, Notre Dame and N.Y.U. — urging these “future seniors” to start a movement to protect their interests? That’s Stan Druckenmiller, the legendary investor who made a fortune predicting the subprime bust, often accompanied by Geoffrey Canada, the president of the Harlem Children’s Zone, of which Druckenmiller is the biggest funder. What are they doing on a Mick Jagger-like college tour where they don’t sing, don’t dance, and just go through a set of charts showing young people how badly they’ll be hammered if our current taxes, growth rates, defense spending and entitlements stay where they are? “My generation — we brought down the president in the ’60s because we didn’t want to go into the war against Vietnam,” Druckenmiller told an overflow crowd at Notre Dame last week. “People say young people don’t vote; young people don’t care. I’m hoping after tonight, you will care. There is a clear danger to you and your children.”

Whenever Druckenmiller (a friend) is challenged by seniors, who also come to his talks, that he is trying to start an intergenerational war, he has a standard reply: “No, that war already happened, and the kids lost. We’re just trying to recover some scraps for them.”
With graph after graph, they show how government spending, investments, entitlements and poverty alleviation have overwhelmingly benefited the elderly since the 1960s and how the situation will only get worse as our over-65 population soars 100 percent between now and 2050, while the working population that will have to support them — ages 18 to 64 — will grow by 17 percent. This imbalance will lead to a huge burden on the young and, without greater growth, necessitate cutting the very government investments in infrastructure, Head Start, and medical and technology research that help the poorest and also create the jobs of the future.

Druckenmiller is not looking to get his taxes cut. He considers Social Security and Medicare great achievements for how they’ve reduced poverty among the elderly. He and Canada are simply convinced that only a Vietnam-war-scale movement by the young can break through the web of special interests to force politicians to put in place the reforms that would actually secure both today’s seniors and future seniors, today’s middle class and the wanna-be middle class. (Watch their N.Y.U. presentation: Generational Theft: How Entitlement Spending is Stealing Opportunity from America's Youth - YouTube).

Druckenmiller urges young people to design their own solutions, but, when asked, he recommends: raising taxes on capital gains, dividends and carried interest — now hugely weighted to the wealthy and elderly — to make them equal to earned income taxes; making all consumers more price sensitive when obtaining health care; means-testing Social Security and Medicare so they go to those most in need; phasing in higher age qualifications for entitlements and cutting corporate taxes to zero, so the people who actually create jobs will have more resources to do so.

At the Harlem Children’s Zone, explains Canada, “we have made a promise to all of our children: you play by the rules, do well in school, avoid drugs, gangs, crime and teenage pregnancy, and we will get you into college and on your way down the path of the middle class” and toward a future of financial security. But, he adds, “the current spending on my generation — I’m 61 — if it continues unabated, will erase any chance my children will have the safety net of social, education and health services they will need. It seems deeply offensive to me that we will be asking these poor children from Harlem to subsidize a generation that is, by and large, more well-off than they are, and then leave them deeply indebted in an America that had eaten the seed corn of the next generation.”

 

[ACamp1900]

... wait 10-20 years from now when our **** poor public education finally catches up with us.

I believe our current leadership is evidence enough that it already has...

 

[ND NYC]

Right, and when all the sick people sign up for insurance and the healthy people don't bother, that's going to miraculously drive costs down. Just wait. Because... group policies... right?

hence the mandate

 

[wizards8507]

Good points. And speaking of "buckle up", wait 10-20 years from now when our **** poor public education finally catches up with us. Wait till the group of people who are incapable of contributing in the job market outnumber the people who can contribute and be self-reliant.

Kids in American public schools today K-12 are outside the top 20 in the world in math and science, but they're getting A's in "collectivism", "cooperation", "social justice", and "Jen has two Mommies." Some of these kids will turn out well because of their intellect and work ethic, but I see the number of Occupiers and Starbucks employees with useless college degrees spiking in the next two decades.

Ironically, the cause of this is actually a push to FURTHER education. The "everyone must go to college" mentality leads to people pursuing things that don't match their aptitude. They either earn useless degrees or burn out with nothing to show for it but a pile of student loan debt. My high school offered a great votech program for culinary, auto shop, wood/metal shop, and a few others. I graduated with some guys who left high school knowing how to weld or fix a car engine who started out earning $40,000 per year with no debt. They'll probably never be rich but they're productive, valuable, and will be able raise a family comfortably. The white-collar elites push the perception that this type of work is beneath people, so the kids who would excel under the hood of a car are instead sitting in the back of a European History class playing Angry Birds on their phone.

 

[wizards8507]

hence the mandate

...which is unenforceable because the penalty for noncompliance is cheaper than buying insurance. The healthy people STILL won't be buying insurance, they'll just get a shiny new tax.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

...which is unenforceable because the penalty for noncompliance is cheaper than buying insurance. The healthy people STILL won't be buying insurance, they'll just get a shiny new tax.

But but but...King Obama said it wasn't a tax