Police State USA

[Irish#1]

The taxpayers paid the family 12 million dollars. The three police officers involved suffered no consequences despite firing over 30 rounds, several of which struck an innocent woman in her own apartment. The indictment was for firing a shot into a white neighbor's apartment.

Not sure the point of mentioning the color of the neighbor, unless you think there would be no indictment if the neighbor had been of color?

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not going to post it all but recent evidence that has come out show she was an active participant in Glover's life. Dating from 2016, when she borrowed a rental car to him, that someone was murdered in. To the day before the warrant was executed, texting him when the shit was going to come through.

This is not intended to justify the killing but the context is important as the lawyer and media just lied about so much from the beginning.

I don't want to lessen what happened here, but if you play with matches, you'll eventually get burned.

 

[IrishLax]

Not sure the point of mentioning the color of the neighbor, unless you think there would be no indictment if the neighbor had been of color?

As far as I understand it, there was also a black neighbor who had bullets enter their unit and there were no charges related to that.

 

[calvegas04]

Serious question here. If she was white would this have just been a warrant serve gone wrong with her drug dealing boyfriend? And 100% no one would have heard of this.

 

[NorthDakota]

As far as I understand it, there was also a black neighbor who had bullets enter their unit and there were no charges related to that.

There were charges for that Im pretty sure. Wanton endangerment or disregard for human life or something like that.

Edit: disregard. I see what you guys are talking about now.

 

[IrishLion]

Not sure the point of mentioning the color of the neighbor, unless you think there would be no indictment if the neighbor had been of color?

Apparently there WERE neighbors of color that had bullets that entered their apartment, but no charges related to that one. Just the other apartment.

However, there is an open lawsuit from one of the neighbors in regards to the shootout, so that could be why. No charges in terms of danger to that apartment since there is already an open case on the matter.

 

[NorthDakota]

I had read that the discipline resulted from him shooting into a window that gad a shade or drapes covering it, same apartment that he is getting charged for shooting into maybe?

 

[Luckylucci]

Serious question here. If she was white would this have just been a warrant serve gone wrong with her drug dealing boyfriend? And 100% no one would have heard of this.

Probably and that's the problem I have with the entire narrative from the media, politicians, and public figures. There are white people being killed by police in similar situations, but they never make the headlines. There are black people committing hate crimes towards white people. Nothing. We are trying to start a race war (win an election) by not giving everybody all the information. Scary stuff.

 

[Irish#1]

As far as I understand it, there was also a black neighbor who had bullets enter their unit and there were no charges related to that.

Apparently there WERE neighbors of color that had bullets that entered their apartment, but no charges related to that one. Just the other apartment.

However, there is an open lawsuit from one of the neighbors in regards to the shootout, so that could be why. No charges in terms of danger to that apartment since there is already an open case on the matter.

Thanks, maybe it wasn't Eddy's intention, but the way I read his post, it appeared to me that he was inferring no charges were filed because the neighbor was white.

 

[NDRock]

Understood and I completely agree that I think these things can and should be handled better. However, at the time of executing the warrant they do not know what is going on inside each of these houses. Or where all the guns, drugs, and cash are. And, at the house Glover was found, they found 8 guns. So, after the fact, it's easy to say well they didn't find anything at her house they should have handled it differently.

Yeah, I guess I’m a little more libertarian leaning. If the government is going to break down a door, to someone’s home, in the middle of the night and endanger people in an apartment complex, it better be for some major criminal activity and imminent danger to the public. Not this and I would have felt that way if this didn’t go south.

 

[Irish YJ]

I find it interesting that people still don't know the facts on this one. And the additional stuff that came out yesterday was still kind of hushed on some news sites, continuing to make it difficult to understand the whole picture. Not saying this wasn't tragic, it was. Shouldn't have happened, and things need to change. But this wasn't racism, or evil cops. It's policy, and is not near as cut and dry as some folks make it.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I find it interesting that people still don't know the facts on this one. And the additional stuff that came out yesterday was still kind of hushed on some news sites, continuing to make it difficult to understand the whole picture. Not saying this wasn't tragic, it was. Shouldn't have happened, and things need to change. But this wasn't racism, or evil cops. It's policy, and is not near as cut and dry as some folks make it.

Crazy part is if they executed the “no-knock” and didn’t go for the “knock and announce” its highly likely no one would’ve been killed or hurt. Cops would’ve been on top of them in seconds and not given them a chance to grab the gun, especially since it was a small apartment. No knocks are for this specific reason- suspect has a gun in the residence. Now all the talk about banning no-knocks, if that’s happens I’m betting your going to see a lot more police shot, suspects shot, and suspect suicides. They shouldn’t be used for every search warrant obviously but when there’s violent offenders/weapons involved, they’re crucial for a safe outcome

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I find it interesting that people still don't know the facts on this one. And the additional stuff that came out yesterday was still kind of hushed on some news sites, continuing to make it difficult to understand the whole picture. Not saying this wasn't tragic, it was. Shouldn't have happened, and things need to change. But this wasn't racism, or evil cops. It's policy, and is not near as cut and dry as some folks make it.

And yeah. And it’s smart, educated seemingly reasonable people that still believe the original story put out (months after the actual incident as I recall So there’s no way mainstream outlets didn’t have the actual facts) cops went to the wrong house with a no-knock and killed BT as she slept. But that’s kind of the point right? People will believe/remember the first version they hear/read

 

[Ndaccountant]

Not a popular take I am sure, but a major foundational issue here is guns. She is alive today if there were no guns in the apartment. But, I am sure the gun or guns provided a sense of security from intruders (I am sure any intruder would have presumed to be armed with a gun). America has a gun problem and scenes like this will continue to occur because the police, for their own safety, must assume the worst.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Not a popular take I am sure, but a major foundational issue here is guns. She is alive today if there were no guns in the apartment. But, I am sure the gun or guns provided a sense of security from intruders (I am sure any intruder would have presumed to be armed with a gun). America has a gun problem and scenes like this will continue to occur because the police, for their own safety, must assume the worst.

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and do not contribute to negative firearms statistics. I don’t know what Mr Walker saw or heard or didn’t hear/see, but first rule is to know what you’re shooting at. I’m going on the assumption that he panicked and fired blindly. I am for background checks on gun buyers and eliminating straw purchases..etc. I’d also like to see mandatory firearms training for gun owners. Owning a deadly weapon like a gun should come with yearly/bi-yearly training course not just for safety rules but also defense.

 

[greyhammer90]

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and do not contribute to negative firearms statistics. I don’t know what Mr Walker saw or heard or didn’t hear/see, but first rule is to know what you’re shooting at. I’m going on the assumption that he panicked and fired blindly. I am for background checks on gun buyers and eliminating straw purchases..etc. I’d also like to see mandatory firearms training for gun owners. Owning a deadly weapon like a gun should come with yearly/bi-yearly training course not just for safety rules but also defense.

This is some victim blaming mentality. He fired one shot at the guys with guns who just broke down the door. The trained police officers returned fire with twenty shots and killed a bystander.

 

[DCDomer]

I'm having a ton of fun watching folks with delusions of grandeur about fighting off the federal government from their suburban foxholes when it comes to defending the 2nd Amendment twist themselves into a logical pretzel in defense of militarized police executing a No-Knock Warrant.

"bUt tHeY kNoCkEd"

 

[Ndaccountant]

This is some victim blaming mentality. He fired one shot at the guys with guns who just broke down the door. The trained police officers returned fire with twenty shots and killed a bystander.

How many shots are okay after being shot at and hit? This is a tragedy, no question about it. But I still don't understand what people want the cops to do in that case. I understand the frustration with the events leading up to the shooting. We can all agree they must be better. But once they are there and they just got shot at, at night, in the dark, what is the right amount of "return fire" per person?

 

[greyhammer90]

How many shots are okay after being shot at and hit? This is a tragedy, no question about it. But I still don't understand what people want the cops to do in that case. I understand the frustration with the events leading up to the shooting. We can all agree they must be better. But once they are there and they just got shot at, at night, in the dark, what is the right amount of "return fire" per person?

Well I was responding to a post waxing poetic about how the average citizen really must learn to carefully identify a potential target before ever pulling a trigger, sneakily implying that the situation was the fault of the gun owning citizen who had his door broken down "at night, in the dark" so I thought that holding trained police officers who are picking the time and place of engagement to the same standard of having to identity their target and performing some trigger discipline would make some sense.

What good is the 2nd amendment if government agents can break down your door without announcement and when you protect yourself the citizenry shrugs over your body and says "but what do you expect, he shot at a cop."

 

[Ndaccountant]

Well I was responding to a post waxing poetic about how the average citizen really must learn to carefully identify a potential target before ever pulling a trigger, sneakily implying that the situation was the fault of the gun owning citizen who had his door broken down "at night, in the dark" so I thought that holding trained police officers who are picking the time and place of engagement to the same standard of identity your target and perform trigger discipline would make some sense.

What good is the 2nd amendment if government agents can break down your door without announcement and when you protect yourself the citizenry shrugs over your body and says "but what do you expect, he shot at a cop."

Understand.

At least to the part of "picking the time"....we know why. To minimize the risk of violence, presumably gun violence.

 

[greyhammer90]

Understand.

At least to the part of "picking the time"....we know why. To minimize the risk of violence, presumably gun violence.

Sure, but don't then use that darkness to give them a pass on firing blindly into an apartment when it goes wrong. That's having your cake and eating it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Sure, but don't then use that darkness to give them a pass on firing blindly into an apartment when it goes wrong. That's having your cake and eating it.

Yea, I guess my point is that this all goes back to my notion that guns are one of the underlying problems, legal or not.

 

[Irish YJ]

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and do not contribute to negative firearms statistics. I don’t know what Mr Walker saw or heard or didn’t hear/see, but first rule is to know what you’re shooting at. I’m going on the assumption that he panicked and fired blindly. I am for background checks on gun buyers and eliminating straw purchases..etc. I’d also like to see mandatory firearms training for gun owners. Owning a deadly weapon like a gun should come with yearly/bi-yearly training course not just for safety rules but also defense.

I don't know about you, but if my door is broken down in the middle of the night, I'm shooting. The question is, did Walker hear the cops announce themselves. And we'll never know.

Not a popular take I am sure, but a major foundational issue here is guns. She is alive today if there were no guns in the apartment. But, I am sure the gun or guns provided a sense of security from intruders (I am sure any intruder would have presumed to be armed with a gun). America has a gun problem and scenes like this will continue to occur because the police, for their own safety, must assume the worst.

If you're going to do the what ifs, you could also say a foundational issue is drug crimes. She is also alive today if there wasn't a drug crime that initiated the investigation in the first place.

And yeah. And it’s smart, educated seemingly reasonable people that still believe the original story put out (months after the actual incident as I recall So there’s no way mainstream outlets didn’t have the actual facts) cops went to the wrong house with a no-knock and killed BT as she slept. But that’s kind of the point right? People will believe/remember the first version they hear/read

It's still the version many are pushing.

Crazy part is if they executed the “no-knock” and didn’t go for the “knock and announce” its highly likely no one would’ve been killed or hurt. Cops would’ve been on top of them in seconds and not given them a chance to grab the gun, especially since it was a small apartment. No knocks are for this specific reason- suspect has a gun in the residence. Now all the talk about banning no-knocks, if that’s happens I’m betting your going to see a lot more police shot, suspects shot, and suspect suicides. They shouldn’t be used for every search warrant obviously but when there’s violent offenders/weapons involved, they’re crucial for a safe outcome

I don't know. Most people have their gun by the bed. Maybe he doesn't make it to the hallway with his gun at that point, but most could have woken, and grabbed their gun from the nightstand. I'd like to understand the evidence behind the warrant in the first place. I'm just not sure what they had justified the raid in the first place. And if it did, couldn't have been handled differently. For instance, why not get the individuals as they leave. Or if they want to search the house itself, why not wait till they believe it's empty.

This is some victim blaming mentality. He fired one shot at the guys with guns who just broke down the door. The trained police officers returned fire with twenty shots and killed a bystander.

I don't blame the guy for shooting at all if he didn't hear the announcement. But I also don't blame the cops for opening up after they were fired on. 20 shots may sound like a lot, but you can empty a clip pretty quick. And frankly once shooting begins, especially in a small dark environment, you don't know that it's only one that suspect fired. Very unfortunate situation all around, but I can understand both sides. My biggest issues are of the evidence that led to the warrant in the first place, and the policy around what led up to the raid.

 

[Legacy]

Did you miss my point? They question was asked if in fact it was an honest mistake, why weren't there any repercussions? There was. 12 Million dollars worth. The cops were doing the job they were tasked to do. They were fired upon. They fired back neutralizing the threat. It is sad and unfortunate that Breonna Taylor was caught in the crossfire. Hindsight is always 2020. It looks as though the State is trying to make changes to their policies and procedures so that this doesn't happen again.

You have to kinda put yourself in their position I believe. Warrant being served late on a drug case. These particular officers may or may have not really known anything about the case. It's likely they were briefed before leaving to execute the warrant. Were probably told that the suspects could be armed and dangerous. Suspect shoots. They shoot. All this is probably happening in a poorly lit apartment. That is an assumption since it was late at night. One would think that if it was lit, The boyfriend would have not shot at the officers to begin with and not mistaken them for possible intruders.

I have to ask how this went sideways for the cops. Guns drawn to break into a drug house, opening fire, BT is collateral or she needed "neutralizing", a perp is arrested for attempted murder on a cop, no body cams. Walker says no announcement. Multiple cops say they did announce. Any errors in obtaining the warrant never surface. No Grand Jury. No firings. Maybe a warning.

Walker is tried and maybe convicted for attempted murder. No one outside of a small community in Louisville looks closer. Cops just doing their dangerous job. Dangerous part of town. Nothing changes.

 

[Irish#1]

I have to ask how this went sideways for the cops. Guns drawn to break into a drug house, opening fire, BT is collateral or she needed "neutralizing", a perp is arrested for attempted murder on a cop, no body cams. Walker says no announcement. Multiple cops say they did announce. Any errors in obtaining the warrant never surface. No Grand Jury. No firings. Maybe a warning.

Walker is tried and maybe convicted for attempted murder. No one outside of a small community in Louisville looks closer. Cops just doing their dangerous job. Dangerous part of town. Nothing changes.

I've stated my preference for police reform on policy and procedures, but knowing this is a drug bust, if I'm a policeman who is in on this, I will have my gun drawn ready to fire. Afterall, my life is also on the line.

 

[greyhammer90]

don't blame the guy for shooting at all if he didn't hear the announcement. But I also don't blame the cops for opening up after they were fired on. 20 shots may sound like a lot, but you can empty a clip pretty quick. And frankly once shooting begins, especially in a small dark environment, you don't know that it's only one that suspect fired. Very unfortunate situation all around, but I can understand both sides. My biggest issues are of the evidence that led to the warrant in the first place, and the policy around what led up to the raid.

Sorry but that's an absolute skate-by to me. I agree that the bigger issue is the policy of granting a no knock warrant, and that public calls for arresting the cops by most politicians is a "bread and circuses" move, but the underlying motivation of an act being self-serving doesn't mean the act is wrong.

The facts, with as little or as much spin as you would like, indicate that the cops were, at the very least, negligent in discharging their firearms into a dark apartment without knowing who or what they were aiming at. If I'm negligent with a firearm and kill a bystander I get charged with manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

 

[Irish#1]

Sorry but that's an absolute skate-by to me. I agree that the bigger issue is the policy of granting a no knock warrant, and that public calls for arresting the cops by most politicians is a "bread and circuses" move, but the underlying motivation of an act being self-serving doesn't mean the act is wrong.

The facts, with as little or as much spin as you would like, indicate that the cops were, at the very least, negligent in discharging their firearms into a dark apartment without knowing who or what they were aiming at. If I'm negligent with a firearm and kill a bystander I get charged with manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

Devils Advocate.............You have several policemen firing. Each has his own training, thoughts as they process the situation and their own human survival instincts as they respond to the shot. Are you going to stop and think about how many shots the others have fired and decide to take your finger off the trigger? These guys get trained, but how many actually ever have to utilize the training in real life? Even if they have been on a number of these calls before, if this is the first one where they were shot at, it's a totally new environment.

I'm not diminishing what happened, but I think we typically fail to put ourselves in the shoes of the policemen who are put in these positions.

 

[NDRock]

Devils Advocate.............You have several policemen firing. Each has his own training, thoughts as they process the situation and their own human survival instincts as they respond to the shot. Are you going to stop and think about how many shots the others have fired and decide to take your finger off the trigger? These guys get trained, but how many actually ever have to utilize the training in real life? Even if they have been on a number of these calls before, if this is the first one where they were shot at, it's a totally new environment.

I'm not diminishing what happened, but I think we typically fail to put ourselves in the shoes of the policemen who are put in these positions.

This woman had a steady job. Would it have been that difficult to execute the warrant as she leaves for work? They literally chose the most dangerous time to conduct the search. At night, where the most innocent people would be home in the surrounding apartments. Seems like basic risk vs. reward analysis for both the safety of the police and the innocent people around. Just because it involves drugs, every situation isn't Pablo Escobar at his bunker.

I have more issues with the decision to use the no-knock warrant than the actions once things went south.

 

[Irish#1]

This woman had a steady job. Would it have been that difficult to execute the warrant as she leaves for work? They literally chose the most dangerous time to conduct the search. At night, where the most innocent people would be home in the surrounding apartments. Seems like basic risk vs. reward analysis for both the safety of the police and the innocent people around. Just because it involves drugs, every situation isn't Pablo Escobar at his bunker.

I have more issues with the decision to use the no-knock warrant than the actions once things went south.

Not at all. I already posted that one of the options could have been to wait them out. My point to Grey is that while we sit here and posts our opinions on how the police might have been negligent or could have handled it better, it's difficult to know without being there or being in their shoes.

As a side note, a lot of these are handled at that time because the person they are looking for is armed and by them being asleep it gives the police an advantage to apprehend. It might be time to reevaluate this tactic.

 

[Irish YJ]

Sorry but that's an absolute skate-by to me. I agree that the bigger issue is the policy of granting a no knock warrant, and that public calls for arresting the cops by most politicians is a "bread and circuses" move, but the underlying motivation of an act being self-serving doesn't mean the act is wrong.

The facts, with as little or as much spin as you would like, indicate that the cops were, at the very least, negligent in discharging their firearms into a dark apartment without knowing who or what they were aiming at. If I'm negligent with a firearm and kill a bystander I get charged with manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

Charges were filed against only Hankison, who was charged with three counts of wanton endangerment for firing shots that went into another home with people inside. Had shots not went into another home, nothing would have been filed at all. So this really has nothing to do with returning fire into a dark apartment. Bottom line, and it's not a skate by, is when cops are fired on, they fire back. They were not found to be negligent in firing back.