Police State USA

[snoopdog]

Fair enough. The recent perceived willingness for change is what fueled my opinion, and my positive stance on the Church's ability to get the bad ones out.

Also, let's not lose sight of the fact he (Snoopdog) openly said I think all priests are pedophiles. What the fuck was that about lmao.

Aha. I now understand why you respond like you do. You have limited comprehension skills.

Unfortunately you won’t be able to comprehend what this post says , so I will just say......

HAVE A GOOD DAY

 

[Wild Bill]

Meed;ess to say, Chicago PD has a systemic problem, ineffective oversight, no accountability, little confidence from the community it is sworn to protect and serve, disciplinary ineffectiveness that puts the same police back on the streets, and a culture of racism within some of the PD. Body and vehicle cams are "not working" during deadly use of force. I picked it at random.

While the pandemic created the need to cut that pissed PDs off, the protests on use of force was fed by communities that were fed up.

Philadelphia cut $33 million in cuts, canceling a $19 million increase. The city is facing a loss of $749 million.

Portland cut $15 million. The pandemic created a $75 million shortfall in the city’s general fund. All city bureaus were told they needed to cut 5.6% from their general fund budgets, including the police bureau.

Los Angeles is facing a $231 million shortfall which could go up to $598 million depending on the length of the shutdown. The city is already trying to furlough 15,000 employees, to the tune of about 10% in reduced annual pay, in order to save about $139 million. Some of that will be stopping police overtime temporarily. They will not see the 10% pay cut other city employees will see.

Baltimore with a police budget of half a billion dollars and projected $103 million less in revenue is cutting $22 million from their police budget.

Milwaukee is proposing a 10% decrease in the police budget.

Salt Lake City is putting $2.8 million into a holding account for now, if not slashing it from the department entirely.

New York City is proposing a $1 billion cut from a police budget of $6 billion. One of the largest single savings — roughly $300 million — would come from not replacing more than 2,300 expected departures from the force this year. The NYPD also spends an enormous sum on overtime, having logged $635 million worth in the current fiscal year. The NYPD spent $327 million on school safety this fiscal year.

All of these cuts or proposed cuts come from projected loss figures compiled by the City Comptrollers and passed by their city's Councils. Many of their PD departments budgets in years past have been considered sacrosanct with regular budget increases.

Much of these are economic decisions due to losses and community feedback but also examinations ofhow much bang for their bucks they are getting. Chicago has nearly tripled per capita police spending since 1964. The quality of policing and systemic problems in Chicago have been noted above. But it does take a murder, protests and federal investigation and intervention to make changes. Chicago is not proposing any cuts to police budgets which last year was $1.7 billion, which comprises 40% of their overall budget.

Percentage-wise many of these are small cuts and all don't decrease police salaries, but the "cuts" focus on overtime, delaying recruitments, cutting ancillary services, canceling increases and projected savings from those. Other city employees have to take cuts in salaries in some places unlike the police.

Chicago's mayor and police superintendent are both black. So is the cook county prosecutor. Maybe they'll fix it. Maybe they're white supremacists. Only time will tell.

Most people in Chicago are more concerned about the criminality they've seen increase steadily the last five years than they are about police reform. Every sane person in this city wants more police on their own block, even the good leftists. They're spineless so they won't push back against the narrative. They'll just move to the burbs for "good schools" and let someone else deal with the problems they helped create.

 

[Irish YJ]

Chicago's mayor and police superintendent are both black. So is the cook county prosecutor. Maybe they'll fix it. Maybe they're white supremacists. Only time will tell.

Most people in Chicago are more concerned about the criminality they've seen increase steadily the last five years than they are about police reform. Every sane person in this city wants more police on their own block, even the good leftists. They're spineless so they won't push back against the narrative. They'll just move to the burbs for "good schools" and let someone else deal with the problems they helped create.

The CPD is also 50/50 (white / non-white), which is about the same makeup of the Chicago Metro. Chicago has had Dem leadership/mayors the last 90ish years. Last 10 years minority Mayors. Mostly minority police chiefs (superintendent) at least the last 10 years not counting interim.

It's probably a lot easier to find systemic corruption than systemic racism given Chicago's history. One thing that's obvious, almost 100 straight years of Dem rule has brought us to where we are today.

 

[Irish YJ]

Rolling Stone did a nice, ‘Real Life Garden of Eden’ paradise story yesterday

talking about this one?
https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...ttle-autonomous-zone-inside-protests-1017637/

I've seen several like it lol. None seem to acknowledge the residents or business owners who have complained. I'm sure the article was written before the shootings. But hey, hall ya, heaven on earth. Utopia!

 

[ulukinatme]

Insanity

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vn_BF0CIOAo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We don't know what we're going to do when we dismantle everything, we'll figure it out after? That's from one of their leaders. These people have no plans other than destruction.

 

[ulukinatme]

https://www.newsweek.com/police-investigating-shooting-inside-seattles-no-cop-chaz-zone-1512330

Police Investigating Shooting Inside Seattle's 'No Cop,' CHAZ Zone

At least two people were shot and one was killed inside Seattle's Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP) area early Saturday morning, and police say they are investigating despite it being in a "no-cop" zone of the city.

Videos recorded Saturday morning show volunteer medics scrambling to help the purported victims after Seattle Police Department radio dispatchers received multiple reports of three to six gunshots around 2:30 a.m. People involved in the incident were seen fleeing the scene north from 10th Avenue and East Pine street in the city's Capitol Hill autonomous protest zone, also called CHAZ. Seattle Police abandoned the closest East Precinct building on June 8th after days of confrontations with protesters in the wake of George Floyd's death while in the custody of Minneapolis police.

Police confirmed the shooting to Newsweek Saturday morning but offered no additional details. Seattle Police later announced that the suspects are still at large and no arrests have been made. The deceased victim was 19 years old and a second individual remains in the hospital with life-threatening injuries. Video from the scene shows a woman telling locals that one of the victims died after efforts to revive him in front of the Rancho Bravo restaurant.

Police arrived on the scene on foot and were prepared with protective anti-protest gear at the border of the zone. Police later issued a statement saying a "violent crowd" prevented them from reaching the victims initially, but homicide detectives eventually gained access to the scene. East Precinct police radio chatter said officers who arrived on the scene were collecting shell casings and evidence despite harassment from many zone residents. The second injured individual suffered gunshot wounds to the chest and arm.

Seattle Fire had been called to the scene to treat the victims, but they had already been transported by volunteers to Harborview, Capitol Hill Seattle Blog reported Saturday. A spokeswoman told the Seattle Times two gunshot victims were treated at Harborview Medical Center.

Local videographers from Converge Media first reported that one of the victims was transported by non-ambulance locals to the Harborview protest camp staffed by medical volunteers. Capitol Hill Seattle Blog reported the man was dead when he arrived at the volunteer medical camp.

Seattle Police have previously investigated several alleged break-ins and arson incidents over the past week, but no shootings. However, one suspect named Nikolas Fernandez was charged with one count of first-degree assault over a June 8 incident in which police say he drove into a crowd of protesters at 11th and Pine before shooting a man who attempted to disarm him.

The shootings follow hours of largely peaceful protests marking Juneteenth featuring local Black Lives Matter activists, politicians and others seeking criminal justice and police reforms. Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan, SPD Chief Carmen Best and several protest leaders in the CHAZ area have been working together to review police tactics and come to a community agreement on law enforcement. The "Seattle People's Precinct" was flooded with thousands of marchers Friday with demands ranging from defunding the police to increased spending on community businesses.

More in the link

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

It's time to end this little communist charade before it's too late.

 

[Irishize]

Per reports, two different shootings. Police and fire tried to go in to help, but were prohibited by the crowds. The zone inhabitants ended up taking both to the hospital where one was pronounced dead. Not a lot of detail other than that.

I believe this is the video from the moment you referenced. They wanted zero cops and it cost someone their life


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Medics refused to help even after people in the CHOP begged. They let our bro bleed out for 30 minutes till he died. Fuck politics. Fuck your currupt system. <a href="https://t.co/PMwxU9yEzd">pic.twitter.com/PMwxU9yEzd</a></p>— Raz Simone (@RazSimone) <a href="https://twitter.com/RazSimone/status/1274541843779252229?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Legacy]

Chicago's mayor and police superintendent are both black. So is the cook county prosecutor. Maybe they'll fix it. Maybe they're white supremacists. Only time will tell.

Most people in Chicago are more concerned about the criminality they've seen increase steadily the last five years than they are about police reform. Every sane person in this city wants more police on their own block, even the good leftists. They're spineless so they won't push back against the narrative. They'll just move to the burbs for "good schools" and let someone else deal with the problems they helped create.

To some, of course, it's a black and white choice, law and order or chaos. I think there's a difference between the concepts of public safety vs. just crime and punishment. Public safety can be achieved through economic development, community programs that provide opportunity and mentors, and the "good schools" you mention that teach the skills to succeed. Police and their budgets may be committed to improving a community, but are not highly trained in those areas. You are correct that only through a metropolitan approach rather than a city only approach can best address the ills and lessen the distrust permeating minority communities. Justifying pouring more money both as crime rates go up and as they go down, while watching a city budget being eaten up by the police budget, begins to make little sense. This is especially true in economic recessions.

 

[Irishize]

Thread

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This story went from bad to worse. First, local news (<a href="https://twitter.com/wlk?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WLK</a>) said police were interested in interviewing a driver who struck a protester. <a href="https://twitter.com/WLKY?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WLKY</a> purposefully omitted the first part of the video showing protesters attacking the driver.<a href="https://t.co/kUnw7BlpTb">pic.twitter.com/kUnw7BlpTb</a></p>— Ian McKelvey (@ian_mckelvey) <a href="https://twitter.com/ian_mckelvey/status/1274873178125488128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bluto]

I posted info on the Boogaloo movement a few weeks ago from an expert and tracker of right wing groups (and yes, she's a liberal). They're a whackjob group prepping for the end of society with a disdain for police (their leader was killed while unarmed). Are they really right wing if they are standing arm and arm with left wing groups, and preparing for something left wing anarchist groups like Antifa are trying to instigate? I posted pics of them together with BLM supporting the same cause. Per the expert, they are not homogeneous with their like or dislike of Trump or the conservative party. The only thing "right wing" about them is 2A.

They are in large part an extension/continuation of the 80’s white power and 90’s militia movements. So yes they are “right wing”. One of the reasons some of these groups “support” BLM is they believe the ensuing chaos will trigger a race based second civil war. It’s the script from the Turner Diaries.

 

[Irish YJ]

They are in large part an extension/continuation of the 80’s white power and 90’s militia movements. So yes they are “right wing”. One of the reasons some of these groups “support” BLM is they believe the ensuing chaos will trigger a race based second civil war. It’s the script from the Turner Diaries.

From a liberal expert that tracks right wing groups

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Boogaloo movement is not cohesive. <br><br>While there are pockets of white supremacist Boogaloos, the younger and bigger groups are generally not. <br><br>While there are Boogaloos that strongly support Trump, the younger and bigger groups hate him.</p>— JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) <a href="https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1266767564627034121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Here's a boogaloo that's not white

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Boogaloos in Tulsa.<a href="https://t.co/m8Vo9haZt7">https://t.co/m8Vo9haZt7</a></p>— JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) <a href="https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1274464658749980672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish YJ]

I believe this is the video from the moment you referenced. They wanted zero cops and it cost someone their life


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Medics refused to help even after people in the CHOP begged. They let our bro bleed out for 30 minutes till he died. Fuck politics. Fuck your currupt system. <a href="https://t.co/PMwxU9yEzd">pic.twitter.com/PMwxU9yEzd</a></p>— Raz Simone (@RazSimone) <a href="https://twitter.com/RazSimone/status/1274541843779252229?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I think that was the second one. The first incident they would not let anyone in, and pelted the cops with crap. The second time, the cops are like nah...

I saw an article that said now some CHOP leaders say the cops can come in but must not have guns, batons, or vests... lol.. sure...

 

[Irish#1]

Insanity

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vn_BF0CIOAo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We don't know what we're going to do when we dismantle everything, we'll figure it out after? That's from one of their leaders. These people have no plans other than destruction.

I can only shake my head.

 

[Irish#1]

You're really trying to nitpick and missing the point. You implement the changes so the committees have the power to decide and enforce the decision including termination and/or recommending charges be filed.

Again, the committees do not have the power of termination or to file charges. I posted links to the Summary of the investigations that resulted in each of the seventeen Consent Decrees between Cities and the DOJ after U.S. Attorneys investigation.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

 

[irishff1014]

I believe this is the video from the moment you referenced. They wanted zero cops and it cost someone their life


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Medics refused to help even after people in the CHOP begged. They let our bro bleed out for 30 minutes till he died. Fuck politics. Fuck your currupt system. <a href="https://t.co/PMwxU9yEzd">pic.twitter.com/PMwxU9yEzd</a></p>— Raz Simone (@RazSimone) <a href="https://twitter.com/RazSimone/status/1274541843779252229?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is standard practice if the scene isn't secure Fire/Ems don't go in. The pretty much nation wide. Even though more and more departments are buying the fire/ems vest it only helps with liability not making the scene of the incident any more secure.

 

[irishff1014]

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...-21-wounded-in-gun-violence-thus-far/2292837/

Hard to take a group serious when this continues to happen and they don't fight it.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...-21-wounded-in-gun-violence-thus-far/2292837/

Hard to take a group serious when this continues to happen and they don't fight it.

The company I work for has two locations in Illinois. The one I work out of is in the far north suburbs, but our second is located in Pilsen.

For those that don't know, Pilsen is located directly northwest of where highways 55 and 90 meet downtown.
It's close to the middle of the Chicagoland area.

Our workforce there is 70% hispanic and 30% black. All the information I received is from their mouths. Guys living in the middle of this.

There's a mini race/gang war happening in Chicago between the hispanic and black communities.
It probably started long before this, but when Latin King gang members prevented blacks from looting their neighborhoods, it escalated quickly.
They showed me videos of both sides declaring war. Threatening lives if they entered their areas. They posted it right on social media.

 

[irishff1014]

The company I work for has two locations in Illinois. The one I work out of is in the far north suburbs, but our second is located in Pilsen.

For those that don't know, Pilsen is located directly northwest of where highways 55 and 90 meet downtown.
It's close to the middle of the Chicagoland area.

Our workforce there is 70% hispanic and 30% black. All the information I received is from their mouths. Guys living in the middle of this.

There's a mini race/gang war happening in Chicago between the hispanic and black communities.
It probably started long before this, but when Latin King gang members prevented blacks from looting their neighborhoods, it escalated quickly.
They showed me videos of both sides declaring war. Threatening lives if they entered their areas. They posted it right on social media.

This doesn't surprise me at all. But it is still two different races and no one wants to talk about this because they aren't white. So you are even more proving my point for me.

 

[Irishize]

This is standard practice if the scene isn't secure Fire/Ems don't go in. The pretty much nation wide. Even though more and more departments are buying the fire/ems vest it only helps with liability not making the scene of the incident any more secure.

That was my understanding as well but I wanted to let folks like yourself provide the context...so thank you sir. Also, look at the comments on Twitter for the wacko that posted this. He’s the one that was handing semi-autos out to anyone who claimed to know how to use. Of course, they didn’t know how & just thought it looked cool.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

This doesn't surprise me at all. But it is still two different races and no one wants to talk about this because they aren't white. So you are even more proving my point for me.

I wasn't disputing your point. I agree wholeheartedly with it.

You posted a link about the shootings and I just wanted to share what I learned about what was happening in Chicago.

 

[Irishize]

From a liberal expert that tracks right wing groups

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Boogaloo movement is not cohesive. <br><br>While there are pockets of white supremacist Boogaloos, the younger and bigger groups are generally not. <br><br>While there are Boogaloos that strongly support Trump, the younger and bigger groups hate him.</p>— JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) <a href="https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1266767564627034121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Here's a boogaloo that's not white

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Boogaloos in Tulsa.<a href="https://t.co/m8Vo9haZt7">https://t.co/m8Vo9haZt7</a></p>— JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) <a href="https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1274464658749980672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I thought “Hawaiian” shirts have been canceled....racist!

 

[Irish#1]

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...-21-wounded-in-gun-violence-thus-far/2292837/

Hard to take a group serious when this continues to happen and they don't fight it.

It's like the wild west. I feel sorry for those that live there. They don't deserve this.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Minneapolis had a bunch of shooting this weekend as well. City council recently voted to defund MPD.

Local media called the City Council for comment. Calls were not returned.

 

[Legacy]

In the top ten most populous American cities, I can find none were cutting police salaries as is happening with other city employees. Every federal Consent decree usually includes the phrase that nothing there supersedes the union contract with the city. With federal oversight being effectively neutralized by the Admin, cities and states need to pass laws that transfer real power for oversight to them.

Otherwise, for economic and lack of other alternatives, cities may use Camden, NJ as an example of "defunding" the police.

Why Camden, N.J., the Murder Capital of the Country, Disbanded Its Police Force
In hopes of reducing the city's high crime rate, Camden, N.J., made a controversial and unprecedented move a year ago to replace its police force. (Governing, JUNE 2014)

At the Community Baptist Church on Mt. Ephraim Avenue in the heart of the Whitman Park neighborhood of Camden, N.J., stained-glass windows are riddled with bullet holes. On a recent Saturday afternoon, pastor David King pointed out street corners near the church where men have been gunned down. Sometimes, he says, people have run inside the sanctuary for safety when drug deals go bad. On the streets of Whitman Park, King says, “there’s like a drug script that never shuts down.”

Whitman Park has become ground zero in the battle to take back one of America’s most crime-plagued cities. For the past several years, the crime rate in Camden, just across the river from Philadelphia, has consistently ranked in the top five nationally. In 2012, Camden saw a record-high murder rate that rivaled national rates of the most dangerous countries. Signs of crime are everywhere. Houses and storefronts sit abandoned. Some of the empty buildings have become hotbeds for drug crime; others serve as makeshift memorials to those who have been killed, with names and dates spray-painted on front porches. A “stop the violence” mural decorates the base of a rusting water tower.

In the face of this violence, Camden did something quite radical: It disbanded its 141-year-old police force. In its place, the surrounding county formed a new police department that it wants to expand to other jurisdictions outside the city. The Camden County Police Department rehired most of the laid-off cops, along with nearly 100 other officers, but at much lower salaries and with fewer benefits than they had received from the city. (cont)

By laying off the officers and rehiring them as county employees, Camden was able to slash officer pay and cut benefits roughly in half. In all, average per officer costs were trimmed from $182,168 to $99,605, according to county figures.

With those savings, the department, which has since unionized, hired scores of new officers while keeping overall costs about the same. An analysis of police employment data indicates that in the course of a year, Camden has gone from a bare-bones force to having at or near the highest police presence of any larger U.S. city on a per capita basis. By the time the force is fully staffed, which the county expects will be later this summer, Camden will have 411 full-time sworn officers, or about 53 for every 10,000 residents. Cities of populations exceeding 50,000 employed an average of 17 officers per 10,000 residents in the most recent 2012 data reported to the FBI. Only Washington, D.C., recorded a higher tally that year – about 61 officers per 10,000 residents – than Camden will once its new force is fully up and running.

Much of the push for New Jersey’s localities to consolidate or share services has been driven by the state. Right now, more than 500 local law enforcement agencies are spread across New Jersey, and Gov. Chris Christie would like to see some of those consolidate to better realize savings through economies of scale. In 2011, Christie met with officials from Camden, Newark and Trenton. Christie made it clear, Cappelli says, that the administration would provide strong backing to any new county police departments.

So far, only Camden has taken him up on the offer. Because of its already hefty dependence on state funding, some believe the city had no other choice. About 60 percent of city properties are tax exempt, and the tax base that does exist is predominantly poor. Property tax collections bring in a mere $25 million a year, so the state contributed about $114 million in fiscal year 2014 to cover the bulk of the city’s remaining budget shortfall.

Good read. Also,

Camden police reboot is being misused in the debate over police reform
Yes, the New Jersey city abolished and replaced its police department. But the results weren’t good until activists stepped in. (Wash Post)

Clyburn suggests cities could follow Camden model of police reform: 'They just got rid of a rotten department' (Fox News)

"Defunding" has become a term used for political purposes, but the truth is what Camden did was for better policing, decreased costs, putting police on the same level as other city employees and was shepherded by a Rep Gov. The Camden police kneeled with protesters there.

Camden saved $25 million in the first year.

 

[Irishize]

In the top ten most populous American cities, I can find none were cutting police salaries as is happening with other city employees. Every federal Consent decree usually includes the phrase that nothing there supersedes the union contract with the city. With federal oversight being effectively neutralized by the Admin, cities and states need to pass laws that transfer real power for oversight to them.

Otherwise, for economic and lack of other alternatives, cities may use Camden, NJ as an example of "defunding" the police.

Why Camden, N.J., the Murder Capital of the Country, Disbanded Its Police Force
In hopes of reducing the city's high crime rate, Camden, N.J., made a controversial and unprecedented move a year ago to replace its police force. (Governing, JUNE 2014)







Good read. Also,

Camden police reboot is being misused in the debate over police reform
Yes, the New Jersey city abolished and replaced its police department. But the results weren’t good until activists stepped in. (Wash Post)

Camden’s murder rate was higher than some of the most murderous countries in the world. They also had a corrupt PD. They fired everyone and allowed them to re-interview for a job and started a new police force. One of the local pastors was still wanting more black folks on the force who actually lived in Camden but he was happy w/ the intent of the current ones now on staff

I know you are not implying this Legacy, but some folks in media are referring to this story as support for abolishing police depts. Camden cleaned house but still replaced them w/ a police force.

 

[MJ12666]

Camden’s murder rate was higher than some of the most murderous countries in the world. They also had a corrupt PD. They fired everyone and allowed them to re-interview for a job and started a new police force. One of the local pastors was still wanting more black folks on the force who actually lived in Camden but he was happy w/ the intent of the current ones now on staff

I know you are not implying this Legacy, but some folks in media are referring to this story as support for abolishing police depts. Camden cleaned house but still replaced them w/ a police force.

Living in NJ this is 100% true. I have seen some of the headlines you are alluding to and they give the impression that Camden no longer has any police patrolling the streets. This is 100% not accurate. As with all of NJ, the police and NJEA unions rule the roost. You don't get elected unless you bow to the unions, which means basically you give unions whatever they want. Camden was basically bankrupt from the union contracts which is really why they did away with the city department.

 

[Wild Bill]

To some, of course, it's a black and white choice, law and order or chaos. I think there's a difference between the concepts of public safety vs. just crime and punishment. Public safety can be achieved through economic development, community programs that provide opportunity and mentors, and the "good schools" you mention that teach the skills to succeed. Police and their budgets may be committed to improving a community, but are not highly trained in those areas. You are correct that only through a metropolitan approach rather than a city only approach can best address the ills and lessen the distrust permeating minority communities. Justifying pouring more money both as crime rates go up and as they go down, while watching a city budget being eaten up by the police budget, begins to make little sense. This is especially true in economic recessions.

This isn't my position. I have little to no interest in participating in the social experiment Chicago and other cities plan on having once the dust settles. I work, have a family and my spare time isn't going to be consumed with figuring out how to address issues in minority communities. I think they prefer addressing issues in their own communities, so it works out.

 

[Irish#1]

Camden’s murder rate was higher than some of the most murderous countries in the world. They also had a corrupt PD. They fired everyone and allowed them to re-interview for a job and started a new police force. One of the local pastors was still wanting more black folks on the force who actually lived in Camden but he was happy w/ the intent of the current ones now on staff

I know you are not implying this Legacy, but some folks in media are referring to this story as support for abolishing police depts. Camden cleaned house but still replaced them w/ a police force.

[/B]

Living in NJ this is 100% true. I have seen some of the headlines you are alluding to and they give the impression that Camden no longer has any police patrolling the streets. This is 100% not accurate. As with all of NJ, the police and NJEA unions rule the roost. You don't get elected unless you bow to the unions, which means basically you give unions whatever they want. Camden was basically bankrupt from the union contracts which is really why they did away with the city department.

Misleading for sure. I read that article a while back and wondered why the headline read as such. The cost savings were great, but "Reform" would have been a more appropriate headline.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I think some here really don’t have an idea what actually goes into inner city policing and the politics surrounding it. Distorted statistics, under reporting of crimes, pleading more serious offenses to misdemeanors etc. I’ve had a front row seat to this for 20 years. Many of the cops with multiple complaints against them aren’t racist. They are the aggressive ones that go after the quality of life crimes that inevitably lead to more serious and violent crimes. Criminals do not like being arrested oddly enough. So here they used to have the CCRB as oversight. Everyone that got arrested would file complaints against the arresting officer. It’s a game played over and over. Are there instances of brutality? Of course. Defunding isn’t the answer. Neither are some of the other ideas I’ve see thrown around, but I’m sure it was no accident that every progressive mayor and governor were talking about it at the same time. And don’t even get me started on community boards in the city. Biggest collection of morons you could ever imagine.