Police State USA

[yankeehater]

Would actually love to know to what extent "how to buy a gun" is being googled in these burning cities. A few of my friends, committed leftists, have reached out to me to ask what kind of gun they should buy or where they should look. I'm guessing they're not alone.

Was going to a local gun store in the OC and called in advance. Nothing left! Said they had the largest run on sales ever. They also said the processing on the 10 day approval is running 30 days now.

 

[drayer54]

To the 2A crowd in here. We've gotten into many arguments about gun rights, the founders' intent, etc. Guys like North Dakota and Dreyer have repeated the same tropes like "guns protect the people against the tyranny of the government" and "governments should fear the people." What say you now?

Should we not be arming against Trump's tyranny? If there exists an existential (COVID is killing minorities at a significantly higher rate than whites) and actual (bad cops, obviously) threat against life and liberty, does that not give us the right to take up arms against the government? Or is that only a right of white landowning males?

Great question. My position is that anyone who pushes gun control after this event is insane and dangerous.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Life comes at you fast <a href="https://t.co/RPkHqllZlz">pic.twitter.com/RPkHqllZlz</a></p>— Kyle Kashuv (@KyleKashuv) <a href="https://twitter.com/KyleKashuv/status/1267552768472035329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Friend in Chicago called 911. Phone rang 10 times. He explained that the building across the street was being broken into and looted and the dispatcher then hung up on him.</p>— Andy Grewal (@AndyGrewal) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndyGrewal/status/1267305384001355776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's more apparent now than ever that everyone in this country is responsible for protecting themselves and their families. It is now abundantly evident that people cannot rely on the police, the government, or 911 to defend themselves from vicious and disgusting people. Whether those people be outside their front door with the intent to rob, assault, kill, burn, or otherwise attack them and their family or try to pull them from their stopped vehicle to assault them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Demonstrators smash vehicle windows on Highway 101, and flood downtown San Jose streets. <a href="https://t.co/0t7pVgQvCb">https://t.co/0t7pVgQvCb</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/KPIXtv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KPIXtv</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/sanjose?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#sanjose</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/georgefloyd?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#georgefloyd</a> <a href="https://t.co/rpcwRwxZCZ">pic.twitter.com/rpcwRwxZCZ</a></p>— Betty Yu (@BettyKPIX) <a href="https://twitter.com/BettyKPIX/status/1266596432447811584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Imagine being inside that vehicle. Imagine being the people pulled out and beaten. Night after night, chaos and lawlessness have happened as nasty people who want anarchy and terror have tried to destroy our country. The police have been unable to contain it. What if you live there?

The 2A argument is over, in my opinion. People who are cheering for the destruction of our cities are coincidentally the ones who wish to disarm us. It's insane, and people should recognize the importance of firearms now more than ever. Many are buying guns, and I support that decision.

As for Trump and the COVID- I don't understand this logic. Our government should be doing more to keep our cities and neighborhoods safe. The idea that these terror groups can run free like this is disturbing, and they should take control. Protesting is an American right and should be protected. I have several issues with the way police conduct business in this country. I don't like a lot of things about our country and any of the people who have harmed or killed unnecessarily by police, including Floyd- but if you've ignored the brutal and disgusting reality that is occurring in this country right now, then I can't help you.

I see people who are pissed off and taking to the streets to protest, and I support that. With them, are people who want chaos, destruction, and to watch the world burn—others who wish to loot free things and don't know how to handle themselves or have anything to lose. I'm not going to suggest taking up arms against the government over the acts of a cop who will face justice. We can't bully the justice system in mob rule. Imagine had that happened in Ferguson, where the officer was justified, and the mob/media narrative was dangerously wrong. I want changes to qualified immunity, asset forfeiture, and brutal tactics by the police. Still, I also want businesses who just fought to survive COVID not to have to stress bricks and Molotov cocktails. But as for the 2A, I think it's quite obvious that gun-control is a terrible idea and as all the memes say, the reason you need an AR-15 is on every news channel right now.

 

[yankeehater]

Heard on Clay Travis this morning that in 2019 there were 41 deaths of unarmed people by the police. 19% were white, 9% were black, 6% were hispanic. The remaining percentage was made up of all other groups. Not sure where he got that number. Looking at the Washington Post, there were 1,004 deaths by police in 2019. 370 were white, 235 black and 158 were hispanic.

I in no way shape or form support the action of the cop(s) that were involved in Floyd's death. The man did not deserve to be handled that way and those policemen need to be held accountable. Given our media and the many reactions, I was surprised to see these statistics.

Stats the media has been hiding because it doesn't support the narrative. I also believe the shootings on whites are in a lot less total police encounters.

I remember when Kelly Thomas, who was the son of a sheriff, was beaten to death (30 minute video) by Fullerton Police it barely even made the news in Southern California.

BTW....even with the video and them gloving up and announcing their intentions all officers were acquitted.

 

[ACamp1900]

Heard on Clay Travis this morning that in 2019 there were 41 deaths of unarmed people by the police. 19% were white, 9% were black, 6% were hispanic. The remaining percentage was made up of all other groups. Not sure where he got that number. Looking at the Washington Post, there were 1,004 deaths by police in 2019. 370 were white, 235 black and 158 were hispanic.

I in no way shape or form support the action of the cop(s) that were involved in Floyd's death. The man did not deserve to be handled that way and those policemen need to be held accountable. Given our media and the many reactions, I was surprised to see these statistics.

It’s been this way every year we’ve kept stats on race and police violence. There should be nothing wrong at all with stating this isn’t ‘blacks being hunting every day’ but rather a disturbing level of deadly force that should be addressed. It’s very telling to me that the media and our power brokers are completely ignoring these stats and screaming down anyone who cites them,.... they want this. They want our black community feeling they have no shot and they want this reaction. It’s sick in that there is real racism in our justice system but all the data points to it being more in prison sentencing, stuff like that, but we harm the black community by focusing all our attention of false narratives like ‘blacks are hunted by the police everyday, this only happens to them.’

 

[NorthDakota]

Honestly one of the worst political takes I’ve seen on this site.

Anarchists are literally burning cities to the ground as our governments ranging from local to federal fail us and do absolutely nothing. There has never been a strong case for protecting the gun rights of private citizens.

Lol "I should post on IE and see if the 2A guys still support gun rights!" is probably one of the more absurd things that one may encounter.

 

[drayer54]

Was going to a local gun store in the OC and called in advance. Nothing left! Said they had the largest run on sales ever. They also said the processing on the 10 day approval is running 30 days now.

Good. You don't wait for the panic to prepare. At least people are coming around on guns.

 

[Wild Bill]

It’s been this way every year we’ve kept stats on race and police violence. There should be nothing wrong at all with stating this isn’t ‘blacks being hunting every day’ but rather a disturbing level of deadly force that should be addressed. It’s very telling to me that the media and our power brokers are completely ignoring these stats and screaming down anyone who cites them,.... they want this. They want our black community feeling they have no shot and they want this reaction. It’s sick in that there is real racism in our justice system but all the data points to it being more in prison sentencing, stuff like that, but we harm the black community by focusing all our attention of false narratives like ‘blacks are hunted by the police everyday, this only happens to them.’

 

[Ndaccountant]

One of the basic contracts citizens have with their government is that we give up certain things (freedoms, money, etc) for basic tenants (safety, services, etc).

The problem is that a fair bit of the population doesn't feel safe around law enforcement and the other half is now thinking law enforcement isn't doing enough or many not capable at all in the long run.

This is a really big problem in the big picture. How can law enforcement be "tougher", while not further alienating a portion of the population that already thinks policing has gone too far?

I honestly don't know what the answer is, if there even is one. But I do know that very few countries around the world would allow the chaos we are seeing right now, as lunatics are hijacking the cause. When you see gangs of men walking down the streets in Fishtown wielding baseball bats to take on the night, as if this were Gangs of New York, we have a serious problem (and I am happy they did it BTW). At some point the police/military will fire back, and a fair bit of the population will not blame them. We will then be right back where we started.

 

[Irishize]

Honestly one of the worst political takes I’ve seen on this site.

Anarchists are literally burning cities to the ground as our governments ranging from local to federal fail us and do absolutely nothing. There has never been a strong case for protecting the gun rights of private citizens.

This^

I get people hate Trump...he’s earned that by the stupid things he says but to be so blinded that everything negative in America is his fault is derangement. It’s also a slap in the face to those who have truly lived under tyranny & totalitarian govt. The US is a representative Republic. While I agree Trump should have taken to the bully pulpit as soon as the first riot occurred it is still the immediate responsibility of that city’s mayor & state’s Governor to take immediate action. Then if they see they can’t contain it w/ law enforcement that’s at their disposal, they ask the POTUS to send in military in the form of the National Guard. EVERY elected leader in America has failed us thus far but both sides are too busy tiptoeing around the issues & blaming the other side...in other words they’re all playing Nero while America burns.

 

[Irish YJ]

Here's an abstract from gov study on the topic of interracial vs intraracial violence. Link below to the study and abstract.

Data from the 1981 national victimization survey reveal that more whites are victimized by whites (77 percent) than by blacks (17.1 percent), and more blacks are victimized by blacks (77 percent) than by whites (14.4 percent). Although violent crime by white offenders is apparently strongly intraracial, in that 96.9 percent of the white offenders chose white victims, violent crime by black offenders is apparently predominantly interracial, with 55.2 percent of the black offenders choosing white victims. Black offenders chose white victims in 63.9 percent of robberies, 51.8 percent of assaults, and 58.6 percent of rapes. In contrast, white offenders chose black victims in 8.3 percent of robberies, 2.7 percent of assaults, and 5.5 percent of rapes. These percentages suggest that each of the three violent crimes is strongly intraracial for white offenders but predominantly interracial for black offenders. This finding suggests that the motives behind black assault and rape are different than the motives behind white assault and rape. Reasons why the partially interracial character of violent crime has not been addressed are suggested. Five tables and 35 reference are included.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=96748

 

[drayer54]

This has been fascinating to watch in one regard. Remember the big demilitarize the police idea after Ferguson? Remember when MRAPs came rolling down the street and the police were dressed like star troopers and people cried foul about the militarization?

That's largely gone. Baltimore year later went with the scorched earth/surrender the neighborhood policy and let them destroy a certain area. My guess is most police chiefs thought that image was better and put that in the plan.

Most of these cities are using more normal looking cops and less MRAPs (Spare the hunting of those vigilantes in a restaurant) to handle the crowds. Now we're seeing the police overwhelmed and unable to control the crowds.

Half the people don't trust the police because of George Floyd and the other half have no confidence in them because of the lawlessness that has prevailed.

The Guard always sounds like a decent option, but these are normal guys, vets, who were trained to do a job and only know how to shoot a weapon. They're likely terrified and annoyed to be there. I never understood how they were the go-to.

 

[NDRock]

Great question. My position is that anyone who pushes gun control after this event is insane and dangerous.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Life comes at you fast <a href="https://t.co/RPkHqllZlz">pic.twitter.com/RPkHqllZlz</a></p>— Kyle Kashuv (@KyleKashuv) <a href="https://twitter.com/KyleKashuv/status/1267552768472035329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Friend in Chicago called 911. Phone rang 10 times. He explained that the building across the street was being broken into and looted and the dispatcher then hung up on him.</p>— Andy Grewal (@AndyGrewal) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndyGrewal/status/1267305384001355776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's more apparent now than ever that everyone in this country is responsible for protecting themselves and their families. It is now abundantly evident that people cannot rely on the police, the government, or 911 to defend themselves from vicious and disgusting people. Whether those people be outside their front door with the intent to rob, assault, kill, burn, or otherwise attack them and their family or try to pull them from their stopped vehicle to assault them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Demonstrators smash vehicle windows on Highway 101, and flood downtown San Jose streets. <a href="https://t.co/0t7pVgQvCb">https://t.co/0t7pVgQvCb</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/KPIXtv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KPIXtv</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/sanjose?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#sanjose</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/georgefloyd?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#georgefloyd</a> <a href="https://t.co/rpcwRwxZCZ">pic.twitter.com/rpcwRwxZCZ</a></p>— Betty Yu (@BettyKPIX) <a href="https://twitter.com/BettyKPIX/status/1266596432447811584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Imagine being inside that vehicle. Imagine being the people pulled out and beaten. Night after night, chaos and lawlessness have happened as nasty people who want anarchy and terror have tried to destroy our country. The police have been unable to contain it. What if you live there?

The 2A argument is over, in my opinion. People who are cheering for the destruction of our cities are coincidentally the ones who wish to disarm us. It's insane, and people should recognize the importance of firearms now more than ever. Many are buying guns, and I support that decision.

As for Trump and the COVID- I don't understand this logic. Our government should be doing more to keep our cities and neighborhoods safe. The idea that these terror groups can run free like this is disturbing, and they should take control. Protesting is an American right and should be protected. I have several issues with the way police conduct business in this country. I don't like a lot of things about our country and any of the people who have harmed or killed unnecessarily by police, including Floyd- but if you've ignored the brutal and disgusting reality that is occurring in this country right now, then I can't help you.

I see people who are pissed off and taking to the streets to protest, and I support that. With them, are people who want chaos, destruction, and to watch the world burn—others who wish to loot free things and don't know how to handle themselves or have anything to lose. I'm not going to suggest taking up arms against the government over the acts of a cop who will face justice. We can't bully the justice system in mob rule. Imagine had that happened in Ferguson, where the officer was justified, and the mob/media narrative was dangerously wrong. I want changes to qualified immunity, asset forfeiture, and brutal tactics by the police. Still, I also want businesses who just fought to survive COVID not to have to stress bricks and Molotov cocktails. But as for the 2A, I think it's quite obvious that gun-control is a terrible idea and as all the memes say, the reason you need an AR-15 is on every news channel right now.

I think the Ferguson case opened my eyes to some of this. The Justice Department's report agreed that the officer was justified. They also investigated the department as a whole and found major issues. The main thing was how the department was used as a way of raising revenue. There are emails from the finance director to the City Manager about the need for the department to generate more revenue. Most of the focus on policing was in code violations and not actual crime. Pulling people over or stopping them without any probable cause (4A violations) were common all for the desire to write tickets and generate more money.

The report also talks about the racial bias involved. Either way, when you use your police department as tax collectors with guns it builds up distrust within the community. There becomes a lot of tension and hatred and once something like the Floyd killing happens, things explode. I'm not sure how common this practice is throughout the country but I'd be surprised if Ferguson is/was out of the norm.

I'm sure we can take this a step further and discuss why these cities need their police departments out there bleeding their communities for money. I'd assume most of it is due to poor management of budgets from the politicians. The usual corruption and incompetence.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm not sure some of you understand that data.


By being just 13% of the total population but 24% of the deaths by police, blacks are 3x more likely to be killed by police than whites...when it comes to deaths while being unarmed they are also 1.3x as likely to die at the hands of police. This is from specifically 2019 data.


However even if you want to take race or color out of it, just consider why we have to have statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens, and then question why 99% of police involved in killings never even get charged with anything.



Stop thinking everything is anti-(the color of your skin) just because much of this protest is pro-black. The problem is multi-faceted but many people seem to struggle seeing the forest through the trees.

 

[irishff1014]

Just Remember black lives matter and if you say anything against that you are wrong. If you SAY ALL LIVES MATTER you are WRONG and YOU ARE INCLUDING BLACKS.

https://abc3340.com/news/nation-wor...imore-16-year-old-girl-31-year-old-man-killed

No mention of protest here and it was a 16 yr old girl. 16 fucking years old!!!! And these are people from their area. It's bullshit.

I have said it multiple times and i will continue to say it trump needs to do a way with social media. He puts some dumb stuff up there. But you know why he is there be cause the politicians can't be trusted to be truthful and not be bribed with money to vote the way the people putting money in their pockets.

 

[Wild Bill]

One of the basic contracts citizens have with their government is that we give up certain things (freedoms, money, etc) for basic tenants (safety, services, etc).

The problem is that a fair bit of the population doesn't feel safe around law enforcement and the other half is now thinking law enforcement isn't doing enough or many not capable at all in the long run.

This is a really big problem in the big picture. How can law enforcement be "tougher", while not further alienating a portion of the population that already thinks policing has gone too far?

I honestly don't know what the answer is, if there even is one. But I do know that very few countries around the world would allow the chaos we are seeing right now, as lunatics are hijacking the cause. When you see gangs of men walking down the streets in Fishtown wielding baseball bats to take on the night, as if this were Gangs of New York, we have a serious problem (and I am happy they did it BTW). At some point the police/military will fire back, and a fair bit of the population will not blame them. We will then be right back where we started.

You did a better job of getting to the core issue while shit posting in your underwear on a college football forum than any of our so called leaders so I have a hard time believing we solve the problem.

I think the Ferguson case opened my eyes to some of this. The Justice Department's report agreed that the officer was justified. They also investigated the department as a whole and found major issues. The main thing was how the department was used as a way of raising revenue. There are emails from the finance director to the City Manager about the need for the department to generate more revenue. Most of the focus on policing was in code violations and not actual crime. Pulling people over or stopping them without any probable cause (4A violations) were common all for the desire to write tickets and generate more money.

The report also talks about the racial bias involved. Either way, when you use your police department as tax collectors with guns it builds up distrust within the community. There becomes a lot of tension and hatred and once something like the Floyd killing happens, things explode. I'm not sure how common this practice is throughout the country but I'd be surprised if Ferguson is/was out of the norm.

I'm sure we can take this a step further and discuss why these cities need their police departments out there bleeding their communities for money. I'd assume most of it is due to poor management of budgets from the politicians. The usual corruption and incompetence.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

Agreed. Just drive through Chicago and you'll find cameras all over the place issuing ticket after ticket, and it seems these are overwhelmingly placed in majority non-white neighborhoods. Maybe that's just my perception. For some, this may seem petty but how much trust can you have for the system when you're repeatedly getting a $60 ticket for driving 10mph over the speed limit on your way to work?

 

[BeauBenken]

BTW, I think the reason people in the BLM movement do not appreciate people refusing to say it and say "All Lives Matter" is because it feels to them as though you are ignoring the fact that they are killed at a disproportionately higher rate or that they have experienced decades of hardships not experienced by the rest of the population.


I had a friend mention on social media, you can't say "All Lives Matter" until you're willing to say "Black Lives Matter" too.



And if you truly believe all lives matter, then I would think the reason for protesting would matter to you as well whether you want to recognize it as a Black Lives Matter thing or not.

 

[TorontoGold]

I'm not sure some of you understand that data.


By being just 13% of the total population but 24% of the deaths by police, blacks are 3x more likely to be killed by police than whites...when it comes to deaths while being unarmed they are also 1.3x as likely to die at the hands of police. This is from specifically 2019 data.


However even if you want to take race or color out of it, just consider why we have to have statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens, and then question why 99% of police involved in killings never even get charged with anything.



Stop thinking everything is anti-(the color of your skin) just because much of this protest is pro-black. The problem is multi-faceted but many people seem to struggle seeing the forest through the trees.

Thank you for this post, Beau. When statements like "AllLivesMatter" are made it drown's out the call for fixing of the racial inequalities that should be addressed.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm not sure some of you understand that data.


By being just 13% of the total population but 24% of the deaths by police, blacks are 3x more likely to be killed by police than whites...when it comes to deaths while being unarmed they are also 1.3x as likely to die at the hands of police. This is from specifically 2019 data.


However even if you want to take race or color out of it, just consider why we have to have statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens, and then question why 99% of police involved in killings never even get charged with anything.



Stop thinking everything is anti-(the color of your skin) just because much of this protest is pro-black. The problem is multi-faceted but many people seem to struggle seeing the forest through the trees.

I understand the data clearly, there is enough of it out there and the spin you used is literally the only freaking one ever cited by anyone with a voice. You could just as easily spin the violent crime stats and then say black Americans are the least likely demographic to be killed while involved in violent interactions with police. I’m not interested in spin jobs though. I’m interested in my country coming back to sanity and not devolving itself over clearly manipulative and inaccurate emotional hot takes. This isn’t anti black, I’m all for the officers in this case, the Castile case, the Spencer case and others being held fully accountable. I’m all for a black kid getting the same exact sentence as a white kid for the same exact crime. I am not however for burning cities to the ground and insisting rational dialogue be silenced.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I'm not sure some of you understand that data.


By being just 13% of the total population but 24% of the deaths by police, blacks are 3x more likely to be killed by police than whites...when it comes to deaths while being unarmed they are also 1.3x as likely to die at the hands of police. This is from specifically 2019 data.


However even if you want to take race or color out of it, just consider why we have to have statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens, and then question why 99% of police involved in killings never even get charged with anything.



Stop thinking everything is anti-(the color of your skin) just because much of this protest is pro-black. The problem is multi-faceted but many people seem to struggle seeing the forest through the trees.

Right. But when deadly force is adjusted for crime rates in specific areas, crime rates have extremely strong relationship with the use of deadly force. In other words, violent crime rates of neighborhoods are a significant predictor to deadly force shootings. In a separate study, when adjusted for crime rates, white people are 1.3 more times likely to be killed by police.

Why do 99% of police involved killings never get charged? Because 17/229 incidents the victim did not have a weapon (2018 data). In 212 incidents there was a weapon involved that caused the cop to use deadly force. Each use of force needs to be looked at independently. The circumstances need to be evaluated. Blanket statistics are not reliable because they fail to take into account critically important details that led the use of force.

Does change need to happen? Yes. it does. We need better training, better hiring process-we need to do everything we can to make sure another Chauvin never wears a uniform again. Psych tests every 3 years and rotations out of bad neighborhoods. We add trainings, diversity seminars, de-escalation seminars, implicit bias ( its sounds nice no matter how often the theory fails scientific tests of reliability). The list can go on. Citing statistics in very dangerous. Theres always been a major gap between academia and reality. Statistics capture a small glimpse of the total picture.

 

[BeauBenken]

I understand the data clearly, there is enough of it out there and the spin you used is literally the only freaking one ever cited by anyone with a voice. You could just as easily spin the violent crime stats and then say black Americans are the least likely demographic to be killed while involved in violent interactions with police. I’m not interested in spin jobs though. I’m interested in my country coming back to sanity and not devolving itself over clearly manipulative and largely inaccurate emotional hot takes. This isn’t anti black, I’m all for the officers in this case, the Castile case, the Spencer case and others being held fully accountable. I’m all for a black kid getting the same exact sentence as a white kid for the same exact crime. I am not however for burning cities to the ground and insisting rational dialogue be silenced.

I would be curious to see this.


And then if this should be about the amount of violent crimes committed by the black population, then why has no actual good ever been done about it. Growing up in parts of Chicago and other parts of our country is like a death sentence for many young men and no one says anything.


I don't want burning cities either. It honestly only hurts anyone in those communities. But I would hate to see a legitimate movement told to be silent or stop because of these looting morons. Progress does not like to be told to wait.

 

[ACamp1900]

Right. But when deadly force is adjusted for crime rates in specific areas, crime rates have extremely strong relationship with the use of deadly force. In other words, violent crime rates of neighborhoods are a significant predictor to deadly force shootings. In a separate study, when adjusted for crime rates, white people are 1.3 more times likely to be killed by police.

Why do 99% of police involved killings never get charged? Because 17/229 incidents the victim did not have a weapon (2018 data). In 212 incidents there was a weapon involved that caused the cop to use deadly force. Each use of force needs to be looked at independently. The circumstances need to be evaluated. Blanket statistics are not reliable because they fail to take into account critically important details that led the use of force.

Does change need to happen? Yes. it does. We need better training, better hiring process-we need to do everything we can to make sure another Chauvin never wears a uniform again. Psych tests every 3 years and rotations out of bad neighborhoods. We add trainings, diversity seminars, de-escalation seminars, implicit bias ( its sounds nice no matter how often the theory fails scientific tests of reliability). The list can go on. Citing statistics in very dangerous. Theres always been a major gap between academia and reality. Statistics capture a small glimpse of the total picture.

I read a while back the some nations require a 4 year degree to work a police force. We def need a better way of screening and weeding out,...

 

[Sea Turtle]

Gun sales going through the roof. I can't even find a .22 mag rifle anywhere.

Stay strapped or get clapped

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I read a while back the some nations require a 4 year degree to work a police force. We def need a better way of screening and weeding out,...

I just earned my masters. Going to grad school and working as a cop while pursuing my masters degree opened my eyes to a lot. A lot is wrong with my line of work that needs to be changed and, I can speak from both sides of the aisle, when I tell you that it makes me really anxious there are severely critical elements that are not being discussed when we try to solve this problem.

We cant have urban warriors. Luckily, it seems that brand of cop is fading away. Ill catch blowback for this im sure, but we need to recruit better candidates. A lot of departments require a high school diploma. 1st. No 18 year old should have that type of authority. 2. Not to disparage anyone who only has a high school diploma, but we need people with advanced work experience combined with degrees. 3. Officer training programs once theyre hired need to be rigorously structured. Learned bad habits can get you or someone else killed. 4. Manage our personnel better to help/and or weed out the problems. Ex. Chauvin. I dont know if he was a racist, a psycho, or having a mental break? Regardless there are apparently man signs that were ignored/missed....that guy should NOT have been on the street. We need to hold our own accountable and not let one asshole burn down the country.

As I wrote in an earlier post, community violence factors are strongly correlated with use of deadly force. Other contributors are resource deprivation, residential instability, and lack of education. Maybe we should start looking at these factors and street violence in conjunction with poverty as a public health problem.

 

[irishff1014]

Cuomo just said the smartest thing i have heard him say. "This is not a race issue." "This is an outrage issue because the video was horrendous."

Wow i never that i would agree with anything he would say.

 

[ACamp1900]

I just earned my masters. Going to grad school and working as a cop while pursuing my masters degree opened my eyes to a lot. A lot is wrong with my line of work that needs to be changed and, I can speak from both sides of the aisle, when I tell you that it makes me really anxious there are severely critical elements that are not being discussed when we try to solve this problem.

We cant have urban warriors. Luckily, it seems that brand of cop is fading away. Ill catch blowback for this im sure, but we need to recruit better candidates. A lot of departments require a high school diploma. 1st. No 18 year old should have that type of authority. 2. Not to disparage anyone who only has a high school diploma, but we need people with advanced work experience combined with degrees. 3. Officer training programs once theyre hired need to be rigorously structured. Learned bad habits can you or someone else killed. 4. Manage our personnel better to help/and or weed out the problems. Ex. Chauvin. I dont know if he was a racist, a psycho, or having a mental break? Regardless there are apparently man signs that were ignored/missed....that guy should NOT have been on the street. We need to hold our own accountable and not let one asshole burn down the country.

As I wrote in an earlier post, community violence factors are strongly correlated with use of deadly force. Other contributors are resource deprivation, residential instability, and lack of education. Maybe we should start looking at these factors and street violence in conjunction with poverty as a public health problem.

I guess this is my frustration. This is a real post and could be an example of helpful dialogue. Stuff like this is drowned out though, usually by inaccurate slogans and hashtags. I’m having trouble articulating it currently but,... It’s super defeating and saddens me. Anyway, reps.

 

[irishff1014]

Gun sales going through the roof. I can't even find a .22 mag rifle anywhere.

Stay strapped or get clapped

I like it.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'm not sure some of you understand that data.

By being just 13% of the total population but 24% of the deaths by police, blacks are 3x more likely to be killed by police than whites...when it comes to deaths while being unarmed they are also 1.3x as likely to die at the hands of police. This is from specifically 2019 data.

However even if you want to take race or color out of it, just consider why we have to have statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens, and then question why 99% of police involved in killings never even get charged with anything.

Stop thinking everything is anti-(the color of your skin) just because much of this protest is pro-black. The problem is multi-faceted but many people seem to struggle seeing the forest through the trees.

Break those stats down to interactions with police by race and it'll tell a different story.

You are right, this is a muli-faceted problem that is difficult to understand. What makes it more difficult to understand is we're not allowed to discuss the issue - at best, we're told to stop thinking a certan way as you did above or at worst we're called racists.

Even our leaders refuse to push back against the narrative where it is completely obvious and non-controversial. Let's take Chicago for an example - the city is destroyed, looting has not stoped for a moment, people are terrified and losing hope. Meanwhile, NOBODY in a position of power has thought to address the protesters and mention that our the mayor, police superintendent and state's attorney are all black. That's right, we have a black person serving in every position of power that involves policing. Given that the catalyst for the protests is anti-black/racial policing, it would seem like something that they may want to mention.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Break those stats down to interactions with police by race and it'll tell a different story.

You are right, this is a muli-faceted problem that is difficult to understand. What makes it more difficult to understand is we're not allowed to discuss the issue - at best, we're told to stop thinking a certan way as you did above or at worst we're called racists.

Even our leaders refuse to push back against the narrative where it is completely obvious and non-controversial. Let's take Chicago for an example - the city is destroyed, looting has not stoped for a moment, people are terrified and losing hope. Meanwhile, NOBODY in a position of power has thought to address the protesters and mention that our the mayor, police superintendent and state's attorney are all black. That's right, we have a black person serving in every position of power that involves policing. Given that the catalyst for the protests is anti-black/racial policing, it would seem like something that they may want to mention.

I think its a mix that our leader are paralyzed with fear that doing anything will make stuff worse. Inaction is almost always worse than any action. Our leaders from both parties who are rational thinking people are terrified and praying that if they appease these clowns, the rioting will stop. What these people don't get is that people like ANTIFA and rioters are emboldened by inaction. They know they get a pass in these cities.

 

[BeauBenken]

Break those stats down to interactions with police by race and it'll tell a different story.

You are right, this is a muli-faceted problem that is difficult to understand. What makes it more difficult to understand is we're not allowed to discuss the issue - at best, we're told to stop thinking a certan way as you did above or at worst we're called racists.

Even our leaders refuse to push back against the narrative where it is completely obvious and non-controversial. Let's take Chicago for an example - the city is destroyed, looting has not stoped for a moment, people are terrified and losing hope. Meanwhile, NOBODY in a position of power has thought to address the protestors and mention that our the mayor, police superintendent and state's attorney are all black. That's right, we have a black person serving in every position of power that involves policing. Given that the catalyst for the protests is anti-black/racial policing, it would seem like something that they may want to mention.

I am literally just trying to say that people need to stop thinking that being in favor of the advancement of black people in our country is somehow anti-white or any other color. People's focus stops being about why does police violence occur and go unpunished and instead starts being about "blacks aren't killed at that alarming of a rate when you really look at things" or "what's wrong with saying all lives matter?" What is the purpose of those questions and ideas at this time? They only serve, whether intentionally or not, as a way to make this all seem like "not that big of a deal" and detract from the main message: there are systemic issues with our police.



Like, I get it. I think everyone gets it. Almost everyone on this board is not in favor of looting and rioting. But a lot of people never make it clear if they are in favor of a systemic police reform. And even if they go "yea, those guys were clearly bad and they deserve punishment" they then like to divert to topics like I mentioned above. Why?



Seriously, Koon raised more of a stink and more people bought into it about the moderators of a free message board being able to determine punishments for each other more than people on this board seem to care that police often investigate themselves and find no wrong doing.

 

[irishff1014]

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...-explosives-several-atms-destroyed-overnight/

Karma much