PJ Fleck

[Irish YJ]

I've watched enough football this year to know that LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, and Bama w/ Tua are on a completely different tier than the rest of CFB.

ND is comparable with Georgia, Florida, Oregon, etc. ND is better than Baylor, Utah, etc. by a reasonable margin. People are down on ND because of one game, while forgetting that crazy one offs happen all the time to teams much better than ND. It's not dissimilar to when 2017 ND destroyed eventual PAC12 champ USC by 35 points by playing a near perfect game, or when an elite Ohio State team somehow lost by 4 TDs on the road to Purdue last year.

I see 3-4 tiers.
T1 like you (Tua Bama, OSU, Clemson)
T2 UGA, OK, AUB
T3 ND, FL, PSU, OR, scUM, Wiscy, etc..

I honestly don't think Auburn came to play, but also don't think they expected MN to be physical and run like they did. I'd take Auburn 100x in the regular season over MN. Impressive for MN nonetheless.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I see 3-4 tiers.
T1 like you (Tua Bama, OSU, Clemson)
T2 UGA, OK, AUB
T3 ND, FL, PSU, OR, scUM, Wiscy, etc..

I honestly don't think Auburn came to play, but also don't think they expected MN to be physical and run like they did. I'd take Auburn 100x in the regular season over MN. Impressive for MN nonetheless.

I dunno. Fleck is a better coach than Gus. He also beat Gus at his own game by moving the pocket on RPO's to limit the DL of Auburn and then gashing them for runs when they tried to adjust. The biggest difference to me was that Fleck has a QB that can run that style and Gus doesn't. Nix is not the QB for Gus' offense... and it shows. If he can't run the ball to set up the pass then he is typically toast. Credit to Minn and Fleck for their efforts. Both were way better than their opposition in the game.

Agree pretty much with your tiers. Auburn may be in the third tier however and I think Fla with Dan M can move up a tier in the near future. Same with ND.

 

[dublinirish]

michigan fans want Fleck now

he'd be a terrible fit for their program culture and the Michigan MEN fuckwads would treat him as badly as they did Rich ROD and submarine him at every opportunity.

 

[IrishLax]

I see 3-4 tiers.
T1 like you (Tua Bama, OSU, Clemson)
T2 UGA, OK, AUB
T3 ND, FL, PSU, OR, scUM, Wiscy, etc..

I honestly don't think Auburn came to play, but also don't think they expected MN to be physical and run like they did. I'd take Auburn 100x in the regular season over MN. Impressive for MN nonetheless.

In no universe would I put Oklahoma or Auburn in a tier above PSU, Florida, or Oregon. Auburn needed good fortune to beat Oregon to start the year, and lost to Florida head-to-head on top of having 4 total losses (including one to Minnesota yesterday). They're an extremely inconsistent team.

Oklahoma is maybe the most fraudulent team of all time. They had 5 one score victories, and no ranked wins except over under-talented Baylor by razor thin margins. They were a two point conversion away from losing to Iowa State. They lost to a bad Kansas State team that just lost to Navy. They needed a 4th down stand in their own territory to beat a 5-7 TCU team on the last drive. Over the last half of the season they did the following:
-Gave up 50 points in a half.
-Lost to an 8-5 Kansas State team, giving up 48 points.
-Only won one game by more than one score.
-Needed good fortune to beat 7-6 Iowa State and 5-7 TCU.
-Needed an absolute miracles to beat a Baylor team that just got handled by Georgia's JV.

Contrast that to Notre Dame's last 5 games. The LSU staffers commented anonymously before the game that they "did not think Oklahoma was a top 15 team"... that's what the film shows over the last half of the season. Oklahoma regressed to scoring about ~30 a game against soft defenses while giving up ~35. By the end of the year, they were an extremely mediocre team with a decent offense and porous defense.

 

[ThePiombino]

In no universe would I put Oklahoma or Auburn in a tier above PSU, Florida, or Oregon. Auburn needed good fortune to beat Oregon to start the year, and lost to Florida head-to-head on top of having 4 total losses (including one to Minnesota yesterday). They're an extremely inconsistent team.



Oklahoma is maybe the most fraudulent team of all time. They had 5 one score victories, and no ranked wins except over under-talented Baylor by razor thin margins. They were a two point conversion away from losing to Iowa State. They lost to a bad Kansas State team that just lost to Navy. They needed a 4th down stand in their own territory to beat a 5-7 TCU team on the last drive. Over the last half of the season they did the following:

-Gave up 50 points in a half.

-Lost to an 8-5 Kansas State team, giving up 48 points.

-Only won one game by more than one score.

-Needed good fortune to beat 7-6 Iowa State and 5-7 TCU.

-Needed an absolute miracles to beat a Baylor team that just got handled by Georgia's JV.



Contrast that to Notre Dame's last 5 games. The LSU staffers commented anonymously before the game that they "did not think Oklahoma was a top 15 team"... that's what the film shows over the last half of the season. Oklahoma regressed to scoring about ~30 a game against soft defenses while giving up ~35. By the end of the year, they were an extremely mediocre team with a decent offense and porous defense.

Curious why the narrative is what it is for us, yet OU has proven to be Charmin soft on multiple occasions in the CFP.

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[Whiskeyjack]

Curious why the narrative is what it is for us, yet OU has proven to be Charmin soft on multiple occasions in the CFP.

Politics. The Committee has strong financial incentives to diversify conference representation in the playoff. Oklahoma is the best team in the Big-12, so they get boosted far more than their resume can justify. Same thing was happening with Utah before they lost to Oregon.

 

[IrishLax]

Politics. The Committee has strong financial incentives to diversify conference representation in the playoff. Oklahoma is the best team in the Big-12, so they get boosted far more than their resume can justify. Same thing was happening with Utah before they lost to Oregon.

Exactly this, they literally have people running propaganda and PR for them. It's why Utah (0-3 versus teams with 8+ wins.... seriously) and Oklahoma were so protected the entire year.

 

[Luckylucci]

Utah is so overrated. I can’t believe they were a playoff candidate at one point.

The committee needs to do better job with regards to rankings. This season was terrible. Need more blind resumes.

 

[BobbyMac]

Let's see how Fleck is after Tanner Morgan leaves. If Jacob Clark becomes the next Tanner Morgan & Zach Terrell (WMU) then hire him. Morgan is probably the most underrated P5 QB in the country. Dude is nails. His Y/A is 2.6 yds more than Books, 1 yd more than T Lawrence's and just a half yard short or so of Joe Burrow's... greatest QB year ever #'s.

I used to be worried about what he'd say and how he'd act but truth is... I haven't listened to a BK presser in a couple of years so I don't care what buffoonery he spews as long as he can make an ND QB perform like Morgan and Terrell at their levels.

 

[IrishLax]

Utah is so overrated. I can’t believe they were a playoff candidate at one point.

The committee needs to do better job with regards to rankings. This season was terrible. Need more blind resumes.

It was by far the worst year yet. The problem came from good teams (Bama, Georgia, Oregon) dropping dumb games (Auburn, South Carolina, Arizona State). So you were left with three frauds (Oklahoma, Baylor, and Utah) who all played TERRIBLE schedules and looked VERY BAD at times in position for the 4th playoff spot.

If Oregon just schedules a cupcake instead of Auburn they're in the playoffs. That's crazy to think about when considering how warped the system is. And it will never be fixed as long as there is conference politicking and a 4 team playoff.

 

[Irishman77]

I see 3-4 tiers.
T1 like you (Tua Bama, OSU, Clemson)
T2 UGA, OK, AUB
T3 ND, FL, PSU, OR, scUM, Wiscy, etc..

I honestly don't think Auburn came to play, but also don't think they expected MN to be physical and run like they did. I'd take Auburn 100x in the regular season over MN. Impressive for MN nonetheless.

Auburn loses 4-5 games every year. It blows my mind how so many hype them up. Bizarre

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Curious why the narrative is what it is for us, yet OU has proven to be Charmin soft on multiple occasions in the CFP.

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TBF, OU in the playoffs have had good showings until this year:

2018: Oklahoma makes the boxscore respectable after digging a 28-0 hole against Bama last year. Say whatever you want about how that happened, but at the end of the day they scored 34 points and lost by less than 2 touchdowns

2017: Oklahoma took a 14 point lead into halftime before losing in OT to Georgia

2016: Oklahoma took a 17-16 lead into halftime before surrendering 21 unanswered points in the second half to Clemson


Lets be real: ND two most recent playoff level games (2012, 2019) were DOA affairs that were over before halftime


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[pumpdog20]

TBF, OU in the playoffs have had good showings until this year:

2018: Oklahoma makes the boxscore respectable after digging a 28-0 hole against Bama last year. Say whatever you want about how that happened, but at the end of the day they scored 34 points and lost by less than 2 touchdowns

2017: Oklahoma took a 14 point lead into halftime before losing in OT to Georgia

2016: Oklahoma took a 17-16 lead into halftime before surrendering 21 unanswered points in the second half to Clemson


Lets be real: ND two most recent playoff level games (2012, 2019) were DOA affairs that were over before halftime


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Everyone was gonna be DOA against Clemson last year in the playoffs. Just ask Alabama.

 

[dad4aa]

Everyone was gonna be DOA against Clemson last year in the playoffs. Just ask Alabama.

I think the same can be said for the semi-pro team Alabama had in 2012

 

[Irish YJ]

In no universe would I put Oklahoma or Auburn in a tier above PSU, Florida, or Oregon. Auburn needed good fortune to beat Oregon to start the year, and lost to Florida head-to-head on top of having 4 total losses (including one to Minnesota yesterday). They're an extremely inconsistent team.

Oklahoma is maybe the most fraudulent team of all time. They had 5 one score victories, and no ranked wins except over under-talented Baylor by razor thin margins. They were a two point conversion away from losing to Iowa State. They lost to a bad Kansas State team that just lost to Navy. They needed a 4th down stand in their own territory to beat a 5-7 TCU team on the last drive. Over the last half of the season they did the following:
-Gave up 50 points in a half.
-Lost to an 8-5 Kansas State team, giving up 48 points.
-Only won one game by more than one score.
-Needed good fortune to beat 7-6 Iowa State and 5-7 TCU.
-Needed an absolute miracles to beat a Baylor team that just got handled by Georgia's JV.

Contrast that to Notre Dame's last 5 games. The LSU staffers commented anonymously before the game that they "did not think Oklahoma was a top 15 team"... that's what the film shows over the last half of the season. Oklahoma regressed to scoring about ~30 a game against soft defenses while giving up ~35. By the end of the year, they were an extremely mediocre team with a decent offense and porous defense.

Some things...
1. KSU is a solid team and has been well coached for many years under BS, and likely won't skip a beat with Klieman who has an impressive track record himself. They almost always seem to have an upset in them.

2. OK isn't a fraud, they are the same as they are most years. Very good O, questionable D. Burrow and team have averaged almost 50 a game, and against good Ds, so is anyone really surprised? Only won one game by more than one score??? You need to look at their schedule again.

3. Auburn only lost to FL in Florida because of a very bad half, and Nix throwing 3 INTs (he only had 6 all year). Very fluky. Only lost to LSU by 3, and LSU is buzz sawing most teams. UGA was very weird too. Auburn RBs only had like 50 yards that game. Auburn had more total yards and UGA didn't even play all that well. Battle of Ds.

4. PSU is solid, but I don't see them as significantly better at all. They also lost to MN...

Auburn loses 4-5 games every year. It blows my mind how so many hype them up. Bizarre

I don't get enamored with them every year. I did watch them a lot this year, and they simply had only one bad half in the regular season (loss to FL) where their QB threw 3 uncharacteristic INTs (only 6 the entire year)

 

[howell66]

They might have been overrated, but I would be thrilled if we had gotten a win over Auburn in a year they beat Alabama & Oregon. I think we need to win some big games, before we talk about anybody being overrated. I don't want it to be true, but it is. "Ducks head and looks for exit"

 

[Valpodoc85]

the Irish need to win a few games they are not supposed to (I'm looking at you Clemson 2020).

 

[Dizzyphil]

Auburn loses 4-5 games every year. It blows my mind how so many hype them up. Bizarre

The stigma of ‘the missed FG’ run back to beat Bama, Cam Newton in 2010 Natty, and ‘The coaching genius’ Malzahn ..... just ask ESPN.......

I don’t get it either

 

[GATTACA!]

I see 3-4 tiers.
T1 like you (Tua Bama, OSU, Clemson)
T2 UGA, OK, AUB
T3 ND, FL, PSU, OR, scUM, Wiscy, etc..

I honestly don't think Auburn came to play, but also don't think they expected MN to be physical and run like they did. I'd take Auburn 100x in the regular season over MN. Impressive for MN nonetheless.

LSU??

 

[ThePiombino]

LSU??

Let's talk after Burrow leaves for the NFL.

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[Irish YJ]

LSU??

They are the buzz saw above all tiers so far and seem to be getting stronger as Burrow continues to get experience. If they only had their typical D (DBs are still very good).

But yes, should have them in T1, but thought that was obvious.

 

[Irishnuke]

How badly would LSU have beaten Utah if Utah had beaten Oregon in the P12 title game?

 

[condoms SUCk]

They might have been overrated, but I would be thrilled if we had gotten a win over Auburn in a year they beat Alabama & Oregon. I think we need to win some big games, before we talk about anybody being overrated. I don't want it to be true, but it is. "Ducks head and looks for exit"

Agree w/ ya 100%. ND has two great opportunities next season to get over the “big game hump” so time to put up and show college football that ND is ready to play w/ the big boys.

 

[IrishLax]

Some things...
1. KSU is a solid team and has been well coached for many years under BS, and likely won't skip a beat with Klieman who has an impressive track record himself. They almost always seem to have an upset in them.

2. OK isn't a fraud, they are the same as they are most years. Very good O, questionable D. Burrow and team have averaged almost 50 a game, and against good Ds, so is anyone really surprised? Only won one game by more than one score??? You need to look at their schedule again.

Over the latter half of the season. For the past two months, Oklahoma has been playing very bad football. I don't care how "solid" KSU is, they just lost to Navy... but were able to score damn near 50 on Oklahoma. This was one of the worst Oklahoma teams in recent memory, they just got very lucky and played one of the easiest schedules in the country.

 

[Irish#1]

I see 3-4 tiers.
T1 like you (Tua Bama, OSU, Clemson)
T2 UGA, OK, AUB
T3 ND, FL, PSU, OR, scUM, Wiscy, etc..

I honestly don't think Auburn came to play, but also don't think they expected MN to be physical and run like they did. I'd take Auburn 100x in the regular season over MN. Impressive for MN nonetheless.

I respect your wrong opinion.

Your record is what you are, just like ISU. ISU was the best 5 loss team in the country with narrow losses to Big 12 teams that have proven to be Charmin soft. Way too many thought they would give ND a tough game and even win. Like ISU, Auburn may have played some close games, but they couldn't finish.

Back to Fleck......He did a great job this year. Given the Gopher's history and a chance to beat an SEC team, I think it was easy to get his team ready for this game. Solid win for the program.

 

[RDU Irish]

Auburn and Florida are grossly overrated. Still a good win for the Gophers but far from a juggernaut and if I was paying attention I probably would have made a decent bet on Fleck and Co to win outright and definitely giving them seven points.

Didn't make a single bet on bowl games, so disappointed in myself. Holidays are too damn busy.

 

[Irish YJ]

Over the latter half of the season. For the past two months, Oklahoma has been playing very bad football. I don't care how "solid" KSU is, they just lost to Navy... but were able to score damn near 50 on Oklahoma. This was one of the worst Oklahoma teams in recent memory, they just got very lucky and played one of the easiest schedules in the country.

I agree they've played some bad football the last half of the year. Conversely, like Irish#1 says, you could also say their record is what you are (I don't buy that either though, but understand the thought process and reality). Not going to bash KSU too much for losing to Navy. Just because we had a rare awesome game against them this year, we still know how difficult it is to play them at times. And we have the luxury/curse of playing them yearly, so we are more accustomed than most. Navy had a very solid season, only lost 2, beat Army again finally, and are ranked.

Back to OK, calling them a fraud, IMO is like being surprised at a used car salesman for trying to get over. They're pretty much the same as they have been a lot of years. Good O, bad D. As the wise man David Byrne once said, "same as it ever was"...

I respect your wrong opinion.

Your record is what you are, just like ISU. ISU was the best 5 loss team in the country with narrow losses to Big 12 teams that have proven to be Charmin soft. Way too many thought they would give ND a tough game and even win. Like ISU, Auburn may have played some close games, but they couldn't finish.

Back to Fleck......He did a great job this year. Given the Gopher's history and a chance to beat an SEC team, I think it was easy to get his team ready for this game. Solid win for the program.

Unlike ISU, Auburn didn't play in a Charmin soft conference.

I respect your wrong opinion too

 

[BabyIrish]

Fleck has hired Mike Sanford as his new OC

 

[ab2cmiller]

Fleck has hired Mike Sanford as his new OC

Evidently Co-Offensive Coordinator as WR Coach Matt Simon was also promoted to that title.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Regarding tiers of quality:

This would put us in a crowded 2nd tier below only OSU, Clemson, LSU and 'Bama.