PJ Fleck

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Well said. Fleck is a good coach, but it's hard to really gauge where Minnesota is at because they really have one big win and that's it. If Fleck is at least competitive in November and can show he can consistently put together a good season next year as well, I would be on board with bringing him in once Kelly is done. Right now there just isn't enough data to confirm if he's a flash in the pan or not.

I have a feeling that if they wait too long they may end up on the outside looking in. This is obviously "conjecture" but Nick Saban isn't gonna be coaching Bama forever, so there could be a huge opening there. There's already USC and Florida State. Those 2 are probably the closest thing to a truly elite position you can get, with potential to be Bama/Clemson in time, with good recruiting/coaching. Like I've said several times, Clemson wasn't a powerhouse before Dabo made it one, and Bama had been down since Gene Stallings in the early 90s, all it takes is the right coach and a string of good/great seasons. They build off of each other, a reciprocal effect, good play strengthens recruiting, which in turn promotes better play. Where's our Dabo/Saban? Someone to Wake The Echos for real, put us back on the championship map. So that when some scUM clown says we're a joke and can't win the big games, we actually have something to point to in response, not referencing titles that these recruits today weren't even alive for. Alright, I'm done. Sorry, get carried away sometimes.

 

[ACamp1900]

All that said you don’t leave an unbeaten P5 conference champ out for a one lossP5 team the couldn’t win their own division, let alone conference. Hell I'm in the school that says the same thing for one loss conference champs,... so yeah

 

[dad4aa]

Couldn't agree more, I'm excited to see how he handles the next month or so.

As far as the appeal of Fleck, for me anyways, it isn't so much resume based as it is the charisma and inspiration he seems to employ. It legit reminds of Dabo Swinney, a guy that kids would give their absolute all for. What happened against Michigan, not just the score, but the seeming lack of fire and nobody playing with any purpose, you could just tell the fire was completely extinguished. I believe with a coach like Fleck, or Swinney, that wouldn't happen, they're like a 5* General ushering their troops into battle, keeping morale sky high, imploring feelings of invincibility. I want that.

Let me preface this by saying I like PJ and, if he continues to win he will be on my short list. I was at a wedding Saturday and sat at a table with a guy who played for PJ all four years at WMU. I asked him his thoughts and he said he really liked him but the “over the top rah rah” (his words not mine) got annoying over time.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Let me preface this by saying I like PJ and, if he continues to win he will be on my short list. I was at a wedding Saturday and sat at a table with a guy who played for PJ all four years at WMU. I asked him his thoughts and he said he really liked him but the “over the top rah rah” (his words not mine) got annoying over time.

Yeah, I could see that. There has to be a balance in there somewhere, too much fire/grit is as bad as none at all. If he ends up in the CFP tho, and has a decent showing, regardless of score, I'll be sold beyond the point of return. For now tho, let's get a new OC and wreck some shit in 2020.

 

[Circa]

Yeah, I could see that. There has to be a balance in there somewhere, too much fire/grit is as bad as none at all. If he ends up in the CFP tho, and has a decent showing, regardless of score, I'll be sold beyond the point of return. For now tho, let's get a new OC and wreck some shit in 2020.

Who are you to say such things as If you have a final opinion that will be heard?


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[OhioIrish31]

I know they have gone after some big time coordinators in the past but we’re turned down. No clue What the reason was but they have tried. Hopefully the next time they will succeed.

We haven't had the players...Bring on your favorite genius coach and it doesn't matter. Need players to win the Natty. I hate when I hear people say they would be thrilled with 10 wins a year. I can watch the NFL for that SHAT. If we lose Kelly then Hello 7 wins a season. No coach worth a crap will come here when we only shop down the Vegan aisle for our athletes.

 

[phork]

On one hand I get this...

But on the other hand, stringing together two seasons with 10+ wins is already paying dividends on the recruiting trail. If we add a third consecutive 10-win season, and the '21 class continues to get better, the floor and the ceiling for this this team continue to get higher.

Do you shake up the current stability to take a chance on a guy like Fleck, and risk a temporary (or longer) downturn?

OR, is there less risk in hoping the next OC is better than Long, and turns out a more efficient product while we wait for the skill guys in '20 and '21 to put us in a REALLY good situation?

Whats the point? Kelly will never win a National Championship. Lets try someone else who might.

You are going to be very disappointed then. I think Holtz was one of the greatest ever at ND and he would have only qualified 4 times in his 11 years (if we make it next year that would be 3 of 11 for BK counting the 2012 NC). Holtz has 5 double 10+ win seasons and if we win out this will be BK’s 5th. I also think it is much harder now for ND with the current landscape in college football. I am not saying BK is as good as Holtz, just listing the stats for comparison on how good BK is doing. I am fine having double digit wins every year with a CFP slot every 3-4 years. Makes the season fun and exciting. I just can’t take getting hammered...that needs to stop. BTW only 4 teams have had multiple CFP appearances. To expect it every year just isn’t realistic for a non-football factory.

I am not disappointed in the fact that ND doesn't win a National Championship every year. What I am disappointed in is that in year 9 or 10 we are getting ass hammered by shitty teams like Michigan. I would have been fine with a 13-7 type loss, but that was truly embarassing. And ND continues to be embarassed in big games. I've seen enough to know that its not going to work out, so next man in!

Sign me up for the annual 10 win seasons with a playoff birth every couple years and sprinkle a championship in there too. IF we hit that 10 win mark this year that'll be 4 of the last 5. But I can't forget about that 4 win 2016. He's still only averaging 9 wins per year. He's not a bad coach, hell he's a great coach. I just don't think he's an elite one. And I don't think he can bring us a championship. And our record in big games supports that.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Bingo.

I personally think Kelly has what it takes to win a championship. You could argue we were the second best team last year. The players we have coming in on offense could put us over the top and if we could get an elite OC, I think it can and will be done under Kelly.

Second best team last year? LOL, now that is funny. ND wasn't even the second best team on the field in that playoff game. Do you know how often I have heard "the players coming in on offense could put us over the top" ? More times than I can count and know what that speaks to? Player development, or lack thereof. Know who that reflects on? Kelly.

 

[IrishLion]

Whats the point? Kelly will never win a National Championship. Lets try someone else who might.

The point is that winning a national championship likely requires two things:

1. Fixing the offense to be more efficient, and explosive when necessary
2. Keeping the defense on its current trajectory

You can accomplish those things by (1) hiring a new coach, or (2) retaining Clark Lea and fixing the offense.

IMO, there is way more risk in hiring a new coach.

There is a greater chance of success through finding a new path for the offense than there is at hiring a new coach and going through another period of 'rebuilding.'

Even in a best-case scenario, the new coach won't have his systems at 100% until year two or three... which puts as at '22, which is the same timeline we are on now, anyway, with current recruiting. I wouldn't risk blowing up those classes just to have a new coach trying to do a soft reset, especially since he'll be operating on the same basic timeframe anyway.

 

[BabyIrish]

Second best team last year? LOL, now that is funny. ND wasn't even the second best team on the field in that playoff game. Do you know how often I have heard "the players coming in on offense could put us over the top" ? More times than I can count and know what that speaks to? Player development, or lack thereof. Know who that reflects on? Kelly.

I know its easy to forget, but our defense last year was playing at an elite level, all season long. That defense had at a minimum 8 NFL players, and possibly more.

Our offense wasn't too bad either and had the athletes to be dynamic. If we had an elite OC, it's not hard to imagine us beating Clemson and Alabama last year.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I know its easy to forget, but our defense last year was playing at an elite level, all season long. That defense had at a minimum 8 NFL players, and possibly more.

Our offense wasn't too bad either and had the athletes to be dynamic. If we had an elite OC, it's not hard to imagine us beating Clemson and Alabama last year.

Man, that is pure delusion. I'm sorry, but ND wasn't beating either of those teams last year, with or without Julian Love. We scored 3 points against Clemson, with an entire month to prepare. Brian Kelly is like the Tom Izzo of CFB, he is great during the regular season, will get your guys to the final four, but his odds of winning the damn thing are slim at best, because the talent discrepancy is still HUGE. Look, we have the dogs coming in to get us over the hump, but they aren't there yet. Elite teams don't get housed by Michigan, watch when Ohio State plays them, they'll win by 3 TD's easy.

 

[BabyIrish]

Man, that is pure delusion. I'm sorry, but ND wasn't beating either of those teams last year, with or without Julian Love. We scored 3 points against Clemson, with an entire month to prepare. Brian Kelly is like the Tom Izzo of CFB, he is great during the regular season, will get your guys to the final four, but his odds of winning the damn thing are slim at best, because the talent discrepancy is still HUGE. Look, we have the dogs coming in to get us over the hump, but they aren't there yet. Elite teams don't get housed by Michigan, watch when Ohio State plays them, they'll win by 3 TD's easy.

Why is it a delusion? You didn't give any reasons as to why it was? Our defense went toe to toe with Clemson minus the last 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter when Love, Gilman and Okwara all sustained injuries. Before that, we were more than holding our own. If our offense would have been able to sustain more drives and give our defense more of a rest, which could have occurred with an elite OC, then why couldn't we have beaten Clemson and Alabama?

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Why is it a delusion? You didn't give any reasons as to why it was? Our defense went toe to toe with Clemson minus the last 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter when Love, Gilman and Okwara all sustained injuries. Before that, we were more than holding our own. If our offense would have been able to sustain more drives and give our defense more of a rest, which could have occurred with an elite OC, then why couldn't we have beaten Clemson and Alabama?

Because we scored 3 points, period. I could go back to every game and dissect and put hypothetical scenarios in at various points, causing ND to gain momentum, but the bottomline is that we had no answer for Tee Higgins, we had no answer for true freshman 5* monster Justyn Ross, we had no answer for future NFL 1st rd draft pick Travis Etienne, and we had no answer for future #1 overall draft pick Trevor Lawrence. We were outmatched, they had high level NFL talent EVERYWHERE. Now, you wanna talk Bama...maybe we fight and stand a chance because they got annihilated too, but again, the talent discrepancy is too much to overcome.

I can sum every BCS, every CFP, and every NY6 of BKs career up in one sentence: We don't get the 5* players, and they do.

 

[BabyIrish]

Because we scored 3 points, period. I could go back to every game and dissect and put hypothetical scenarios in at various points, causing ND to gain momentum, but the bottomline is that we had no answer for Tee Higgins, we had no answer for true freshman 5* monster Justyn Ross, we had no answer for future NFL 1st rd draft pick Travis Etienne, and we had no answer for future #1 overall draft pick Trevor Lawrence. We were outmatched, they had high level NFL talent EVERYWHERE. Now, you wanna talk Bama...maybe we fight and stand a chance because they got annihilated too, but again, the talent discrepancy is too much to overcome.

I can sum every BCS, every CFP, and every NY6 of BKs career up in one sentence: We don't get the 5* players, and they do.

Lol, everything we do on this board is hypotheticals. You literally have no idea if PJ would be a good coach here, your just making observations on his coaching style and giving a hypothetical. I'm doing the same. I think that if we had an elite OC that we could have had a chance to beat both Clemson and Alabama last year. We had the talent to do so. We all agree that Alize Mack and Cole Kmet are elite athletes for their postions. Dexter Williams was an aboslute stud as a RB. Boykin and Claypool are two high quality athletes for their size at the WR position. Sure we didn't have a Will Fuller type, but thats more than enough to win a championship with. That's my hypothetical position and I'm sticking to it.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Heather Fleck is on Full Ride on ESPNU. They just talked about rowing the boat for 10 minutes. I can hardly stand 10 minutes of it, I can't imagine hearing it for 10 years...

 

[StPaul_Irish]

"I can sum every BCS, every CFP, and every NY6 of BKs career up in one sentence: We don't get the 5* players, and they do"

Yeah, our kids can read though..... just saying

 

[Irish#1]

Man, that is pure delusion. I'm sorry, but ND wasn't beating either of those teams last year, with or without Julian Love. We scored 3 points against Clemson, with an entire month to prepare. Brian Kelly is like the Tom Izzo of CFB, he is great during the regular season, will get your guys to the final four, but his odds of winning the damn thing are slim at best, because the talent discrepancy is still HUGE. Look, we have the dogs coming in to get us over the hump, but they aren't there yet. Elite teams don't get housed by Michigan, watch when Ohio State plays them, they'll win by 3 TD's easy.

I'll take it. Izzo has won a NC.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

"I can sum every BCS, every CFP, and every NY6 of BKs career up in one sentence: We don't get the 5* players, and they do"

Yeah, our kids can read though..... just saying

Their kids don't need to read, they're millionaires....just saying.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I'll take it. Izzo has won a NC.

I'll keep this juxtaposition going. Izzo won that NC because he had Mateen Cleaves, who at the time was the best PG (quarterback) in the NCAA. Let's hope that Phil, Pyne, or Buchner are our Mateen.

 

[Irish#1]

Because we scored 3 points, period. I could go back to every game and dissect and put hypothetical scenarios in at various points, causing ND to gain momentum, but the bottomline is that we had no answer for Tee Higgins, we had no answer for true freshman 5* monster Justyn Ross, we had no answer for future NFL 1st rd draft pick Travis Etienne, and we had no answer for future #1 overall draft pick Trevor Lawrence. We were outmatched, they had high level NFL talent EVERYWHERE. Now, you wanna talk Bama...maybe we fight and stand a chance because they got annihilated too, but again, the talent discrepancy is too much to overcome.

I can sum every BCS, every CFP, and every NY6 of BKs career up in one sentence: We don't get the 5* players, and they do.

Except for the one play, the D did a good job of containing Etienne and if you go back and watch that play, that wasn't Etienne beating us. Our D took the wrong gap and left a hole I could have ran through.

 

[Rogue219]

The big question for Fleck, wherever he goes next, is can he recruit the elite QB to his next big gig. That's what it takes to win anything right now. Alabama used to have a big OL, pound the rock and play stout defense. They've adjusted to the landscape now, too.

You'd better have an elite QB to win a title. Could Fleck bring a big time guy to ND or a Power Five school and develop him around an offense that could win a championship?

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

The big question for Fleck, wherever he goes next, is can he recruit the elite QB to his next big gig. That's what it takes to win anything right now. Alabama used to have a big OL, pound the rock and play stout defense. They've adjusted to the landscape now, too.

You'd better have an elite QB to win a title. Could Fleck bring a big time guy to ND or a Power Five school and develop him around an offense that could win a championship?

Of course he could. He's gonna win the Nobel prize for bringing peace to ND nation after he does it, too. (No italics)

 

[NDdomer2]

Their kids don't need to read, they're millionaires....just saying.

for 3 years then they are out of league and broke in another 3.....just saying.

 

[Rogue219]

for 3 years then they are out of league and broke in another 3.....just saying.

I'd like to see some hard data on this.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Except for the one play, the D did a good job of containing Etienne and if you go back and watch that play, that wasn't Etienne beating us. Our D took the wrong gap and left a hole I could have ran through.

Going back and watching the 1st quarter or so, if Book would've had a cleaner deep ball, a TINY bit bigger arm, we would have been up going into the 2nd quarter. The last drive of the 1st quarter, there were several plays where he had guys deep and either overthrew them or just flatout wasn't capable of making the play. The 3rd down, before they went for it on 4th and got stopped, Armstrong was streaking downfield, he had several yards of separation. That play likely results in a TD if he's hit in stride.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I'd like to see some hard data on this.

There's more than there should be, 78% of NFL players and 60% of NBA players are either bankrupt or in financial stress within 2 years of leaving the sport. Idk how skewed that is by guys that are just blips on the radar, compared to guys that have a 10+ year career?

 

[ND88]

Their kids don't need to read, they're millionaires....just saying.

NDdomer2 beat me to it.

 

[loomis41973]

This guy would wilt faster than a cheap rose at ND.

 

[Riddickulous]

What awful clock management at the end there

 

[drayer54]

Gophers lose to Iowa. /Thread

 

[BobbyMac]

This guy would wilt faster than a cheap rose at ND.

Because he lost at Iowa? I disagree, I think he'd be very successful at ND.

I think this guy will be Dabo.0 at his next stop. Sounds like it won't be ND and yeah, I might not like the cultish - Tony Robins spiel but boy oh boy does he understands brand.

If you ask me, he's Jim Tressel with Dabo's personality.