Orlando attack - terrorism suspected

[GoIrish41]

What new laws does the country want?

Expanded background checks, denying those on watch lists the ability to purchase guns and removal of gun show loopholes to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Expanded background checks, denying those on watch lists the ability to purchase guns and removal of gun show loopholes to name a few off the top of my head.

Think you forgot enforcing our own immigration laws we currently have in place, too.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Nothing like the threat of new gun laws to drive gun sales through the roof.

From a segment of the population. Gun ownership has continued to drop. It's just that the people who own guns are buying more.

 

[kmoose]

Expanded background checks, denying those on watch lists the ability to purchase guns and removal of gun show loopholes to name a few off the top of my head.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but a serious question: Expanded how, exactly?

 

[GoIrish41]

Think you forgot enforcing our own immigration laws we currently have in place, too.

Are you just trying to increase your post count? The question was about gun laws.

 

[Irish YJ]

I will say I know several folks that said they'd never own a handgun, or have a gun in the house.... who went out and bought guns during the last "scare". I know several more that are on the verge.

The bottom graph that shows a %... I'd love to see the actual numbers that they use to get that %. Not doubting that the % has gone down. Hunters, small farm owners, etc. have all declined. I would also like to know how they come to these numbers.... it's not like folks who own want to openingly admit in a pole...

From a segment of the population. Gun ownership has continued to drop. It's just that the people who own guns are buying more.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Are you just trying to increase your post count? The question was about gun laws.

And given the circumstances surrounding Orlando (and Boston, and San Bernardino), immigration is also a high priority for Americans.

 

[GoIrish41]

And given the circumstances surrounding Orlando (and Boston, and San Bernardino), immigration is also a high priority for Americans.

Okay. But we are talking about gun laws.

 

[Irish YJ]

PS.. never mind on the source. It's Pravda on the Potomac

 

[NDgradstudent]

Expanded background checks, denying those on watch lists the ability to purchase guns and removal of gun show loopholes to name a few off the top of my head.

None of those laws would have altered the circumstances of this shooting; stronger immigration laws would have.

 

[kmoose]

None of those laws would have altered the circumstances of this shooting; stronger immigration laws would have.

How so? He was born in the US, so it wouldn't have stopped him from getting in. I must have missed it, if there was some problem with his parents?

 

[NDRock]

None of those laws would have altered the circumstances of this shooting; stronger immigration laws would have.

How so? The guy was born in New York. Unless you want to blame Reagan for allowing his parents to come here in the 80's. It's pretty hard to stop American citizens from committing these crimes without infringing on our Constitutional rights, IMO.

 

[johnnycando]

From a segment of the population. Gun ownership has continued to drop. It's just that the people who own guns are buying more.

I intend to be able to melt a few barrels if needed.

I own my fair share of lead slingers.

 

[GATTACA!]

Expanded background checks, denying those on watch lists the ability to purchase guns and removal of gun show loopholes to name a few off the top of my head.

Okay. Done. Across the board we will give you exactly what you want. Stronger background checks, get rid of gun show loophole, make people on watch lists unable to buy guns, and restrict access to "assault rifles".

What is your plan once these laws are all in place and the killings still don't stop? What is your proposal then? How do we stop islamic terrorists once they resort to bombs, knives, vehicles, fire, ect?

How do we actually address the root of the problem?

 

[Irish YJ]

Okay. Done. Across the board we will give you exactly what you want. Stronger background checks, get rid of gun show loophole, make people on watch lists unable to buy guns, and restrict access to "assault rifles".

What is your plan once these laws are all in place and the killings still don't stop? What is your proposal then? How do we stop islamic terrorists once they resort to bombs, knives, vehicles, fire, ect?

How do we actually address the root of the problem?

At that point we'll just need to raise taxes and redistribute wealth. that'll fix it!!.

 

[ACamp1900]

Okay. Done. Across the board we will give you exactly what you want. Stronger background checks, get rid of gun show loophole, make people on watch lists unable to buy guns, and restrict access to "assault rifles".

What is your plan once these laws are all in place and the killings still don't stop? What is your proposal then? How do we stop islamic terrorists once they resort to bombs, knives, vehicles, fire, ect?

How do we actually address the root of the problem?

Forgot the part that realistically none of those things will stop anything....

 

[NDgradstudent]

How so? The guy was born in New York. Unless you want to blame Reagan for allowing his parents to come here in the 80's. It's pretty hard to stop American citizens from committing these crimes without infringing on our Constitutional rights, IMO.

I would like to blame Reagan for allowing his parents to come here in the 80s. Immigration should be sharply reduced, particularly immigration from Muslim countries. The second generation is often radicalized further; this was the case here as in the Boston bombing. We can either have borders or we can have security checks as we enter grocery stores, sports events, bakeries, etc.

As the Washington Post reported:

Mateen asked if there were any African Americans in the bathroom. When one man answered yes, “the gunman responded back to him saying, ‘You know, I don’t have a problem with black people. This is about my country. You guys have suffered enough.’”

He refers to Afghanistan as "his country," despite being an American citizen. (Did you know he was an American citizen? I don't think the press has mentioned it.) On the other hand, he is American enough to latch onto standard P.C. race hustling.

 

[johnnycando]

At that point we'll just need to raise taxes and redistribute wealth. that'll fix it!!.

Bwahahaha!!!!

 

[Irish Insanity]

Okay. Done. Across the board we will give you exactly what you want. Stronger background checks, get rid of gun show loophole, make people on watch lists unable to buy guns, and restrict access to "assault rifles".

What is your plan once these laws are all in place and the killings still don't stop? What is your proposal then? How do we stop islamic terrorists once they resort to bombs, knives, vehicles, fire, ect?

How do we actually address the root of the problem?

Elect Trump so we can close the borders

 

[GoIrish41]

As the Washington Post reported:



He refers to Afghanistan as "his country," despite being an American citizen. (Did you know he was an American citizen? I don't think the press has mentioned it.) On the other hand, he is American enough to latch onto standard P.C. race hustling.

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

 

[NDgradstudent]

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

Wow- so now people on IE are blaming conservatives for the attack. I was scoffed at for predicting that this would happen, but here we are.

If I said "all Hindus are violent terrorists" they wouldn't suddenly all become violent terrorists. You're saying that we should pretend that Muslim terrorism is not a problem, because otherwise Muslims might kill us. Another solution would be tightening our immigration laws.

I didn't realize that Muslim terrorists have such delicate psyches. It doesn't take much to upset these people. Having a gay club upsets them. Women walking around with their faces uncovered upsets them. Christians practicing their faith upsets them. Despite all of this, the preferred liberal solution is to continue to bury everyone's head in the sand so as to avoid blaming anyone but conservatives.

We are supposed to change our country to accommodate them- the opposite of ordinary assimilation. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[kmoose]

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

"You guys" is every bit as bigoted as you are accusing some nebulous group of people of being.

BLM has earned the skepticism. They have a penchant for manufacturing racism where it doesn't exist. Their very origin is the lie of "Hands up. Don't shoot".

Trump hasn't been overtly bigoted towards Mexicans. He's(rightly) called illegals lawbreakers; he claimed that the Mexican government was sending some rapists, drug dealers, and other undesirables across the border(for the record, I don't believe this is true); he's accused a judge of being biased against him and allowing that bias to color (see what I did there?) his decisions in the legal case; and he has proposed securing our porous Southern border.

Just as you scorn all conservatives as if they are all card carrying members of the KKK.

Maybe liberals like YOU are the reason that some conservatives are so pissed off?

 

[ulukinatme]

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

 

[BobbyMac]

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

 

[GATTACA!]

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

 

[ACamp1900]

Don't engage the bigot fellas....

 

[phgreek]

The quote that you bolded seems to be saying he is American (it's his country) and that he has an understanding of being a minority in this country. Maybe not alienating groups of people would be a good start at reducing angry crazy people from killing a bunch of folks. You guys scoff at BLM, defend Trump's bigotry toward Mexicans and scorn Muslims as if they are all violent terrorists, but you may be the reason they are so pissed off right now.

Dude...get a conservative friend and let him read your shit before you hit submit...this comes off pretty fucked up.

 

[Legacy]

I understand your concern here, and agree that no civilian needs a fully automatic weapon (which have been illegal for decades already). But I can't find evidence that even a single fully automatic weapon has been used in any of the recent spate of mass shootings. Take James Eagan Holmes, the killer who shot up a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado in 2012. He planned the attack meticulously, booby-trapping his apartment with explosives before setting out with body armor, tear gas grenades, and several semi-automatic weapons. If even Eagan didn't bother to illegally modify his M&P15 for fully automatic fire, is the possibility such a threat that we need to ban several popular gun platforms that are functionally no different from hunting rifles?

As Sarge mentioned above, fully automatic ARs can be fun, but they're ridiculously impractical-- inaccurate, unreliable, and they'll empty a magazine of expensive ammunition in seconds.

I was not defending Ryan. The GOP is wholly owned by the NRA. Their narrow focus on "mental health issues" after every mass shooting is no more rational than the Left's obsession with certain weapon platforms.

The most effective defenses against mass shooting are cultural, but as I've lamented many times before, that sort of change is very difficult to bring about. Regarding technocratic policy changes that might make a difference, I'm not optimistic. There are more guns than people in this country. Short of something extreme like a mass confiscation program (akin to Australia's), I'm not sure meaningful progress can be made. And even then, that would likely only limit the damage done by insane loners like Roof, Dear and Eagan. Few states have stricter gun laws than France, but they've still got a growing problem with domestic Islamist terror attacks.

Certainly we have a constipated Congress controlled by the NRA-owned GOP.

Mental health reform is needed, but is peripheral to the discussion of increased safety applicable to those few instances of hate killings involving people like Dear. Congress, as currently composed, is not really interested in mental health changes or it would have been instituted by now. They may well be aware that experts on mental health say that reform will not reduce gun violence.

Realistically, Congress would just be shelving this as they have many times before if this were not an election year. Congress only acted to end the assault weapons ban in 2004 and prevents any research on gun violence by the CDC that may give us insight and solutions.

Meanwhile, the majority of Americans for the first time favor a ban on assault weapons and the American Medical Association has called gun violence "a public health crisis requiring a comprehensive public health response and solution."

"With approximately 30,000 men, women and children dying each year at the barrel of a gun in elementary schools, movie theaters, workplaces, houses of worship and on live television, the United States faces a public health crisis of gun violence," said AMA President Steven J. Stack, M.D. "Even as America faces a crisis unrivaled in any other developed country, the Congress prohibits the CDC from conducting the very research that would help us understand the problems associated with gun violence and determine how to reduce the high rate of firearm-related deaths and injuries. An epidemiological analysis of gun violence is vital so physicians and other health providers, law enforcement, and society at large may be able to prevent injury, death and other harms to society resulting from firearms."

The AMA has numerous, long-standing policies that support increasing the safety of firearms and their use, and reducing and preventing firearm violence. Our AMA "recognizes that uncontrolled ownership and use of firearms, especially handguns, is a serious threat to the public's health inasmuch as the weapons are one of the main causes of intentional and unintentional injuries and deaths" (H-145.997). AMA policy supports legislation calling for a waiting period before purchasing any form of firearm in the U.S. (H-145.991, H-145.992, and H-145.996), and supports requiring background checks for all handgun purchasers (H-145.991, H-145.996).

Moreover, AMA policy supports stricter enforcement of present federal and state gun safety legislation, and the imposition of mandated penalties for crimes committed with the use of a firearm, including the illegal possession of a firearm (Policy H-145.999). All of these policies were originally adopted in the late 1980s, when there was a national focus on handguns in part because access to relatively inexpensive handguns had led to an increase in rates of homicide, especially among young people.

The American Academy of Pediatrics' Gun Violence Policy Recommendations are:

The AAP continues to support a number of specific measures to reduce the destructive effects of
guns in the lives of children and adolescents through the implementation of the following
recommendations.
• Enact a strong, effective assault weapon ban;
• Eliminate the gun show loophole and require mandatory background checks and
waiting periods before all firearm purchases;
• Ban on high-capacity magazines;
• Enact strong handgun regulations; and
• Require safe firearm storage under federal law.

I agree that only culture changes will effect lasting changes will dialogue among all sides to avert political power struggles and the influence bought by special interests. The status quo is unsustainable in the face of more frequent incidents of terrorism and worsening gun violence that physicians and ERs sadly face daily.

 

[Opus]

Expanded background checks, denying those on watch lists the ability to purchase guns and removal of gun show loopholes to name a few off the top of my head.

Background checks already include criminal and mental health history, dishonorable military discharge, immigration status, pending criminal indictments and drug use/history. What additional checks can be added?

As for individuals on watch lists, the Orlando tragedy should indicate how useless they are. Mateen was on the watch list in 2013 and 2014 but was removed because the FBI closed their investigations. But the gun control advocates are willing to ignore the constitution and due process for individuals who are on a watch list.

The gun show loophole is a myth that just won't die. If you buy a gun at a gun show you must submit to and successfully pass a complete background check before you can take possession of the gun. The only time that a background check is not conducted is a sale between private parties. Can this happen at a gun show, of course. But it also happens everywhere else in the country. To say that there is a gun show loophole is a lie and is only repeated to push the gun control agenda.

 

[GATTACA!]

Background checks already include criminal and mental health history, dishonorable military discharge, immigration status, pending criminal indictments and drug use/history. What additional checks can be added?

As for individuals on watch lists, the Orlando tragedy should indicate how useless they are. Mateen was on the watch list in 2013 and 2014 but was removed because the FBI closed their investigations. But the gun control advocates are willing to ignore the constitution and due process for individuals who are on a watch list.

The gun show loophole is a myth that just won't die. If you buy a gun at a gun show you must submit to and successfully pass a complete background check before you can take possession of the gun. The only time that a background check is not conducted is a sale between private parties. Can this happen at a gun show, of course. But it also happens everywhere else in the country. To say that there is a gun show loophole is a lie and is only repeated to push the gun control agenda.