Oct 29 | Syracuse

[INLaw]

Tim Prister had said up to the ND game, Syracuse was averaging around 9 penalties per game and ND was averaging around 4. He also said Babers called the officiating office this past week to complain about how much the Syracuse team had been penalized. Reading between the lines, that most likely caused the refs to be tougher on ND this game.

You are trying to apply logic and find patterns with ACC officiating. This is not the way. Occum’s razor tells us they just fucking suck and nominally dislike the half in half out Irish

 

[Grahambo]

Listening to other broadcasts, I’m constantly reminded how difficult it is to find a good pairing. So many announcing teams suck.

 

[BeatSC]

On our first drive they totally missed an offside which totally disrupted the play on the Tyree sweep right. Not a word about it from the booth. As bad as the announcers were they were still better than Kid Collingsworth and Garrett.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Happy to see Bothelo excel yesterday. Dude is like the Tasmanian Devil. Hope he continues to surge.

The most common complaint (sans Pyne) from ND fans is how Rees is utilizing Tyree. Still don’t understand why they don’t try to get him out in space vs running between the tackles. I know yesterday, running outside was a losing proposition as SU had too much speed but there’s still got to be ways to get him in space w/ the ball. Maybe Tyree was the wide open check down that Pyne didn’t bother going to yesterday?

I know EVERY fanbase complains about missed holding calls but damn near every game we see multiple examples of missed holds.

I was starting to wonder if all Brandon Joseph was going to be remembered for is the hit on JSN in the tOSU game. He finally came through big yesterday w/ his pass defense & even a few tackles which he wasn’t exactly known for.

Cam Hart had a tough day trying to tackle. Not sure why but he had some key whiffs.

The true freshman, Ben Morrison; has a bright future but he got picked on yesterday early & often. McElroy pointed out his being out of position on the TD grab so I suspect Mickens has plenty of teachable moments on film. He’ll learn from this.

Tariq Bracy is definitely our best cover guy. After Gadsen scored on Morrison, I noticed ND tried to make sure Bracy was matched up w/ him moving forward & it paid off. Love his game this year & happy that he’s enjoying success. 3-star from Cali right?

Hopefully, ND has learned they have to go w/ Mitchell Evans in short yardage on 3rd/4th downs EVERY time now. Pyne can’t convert & handing off to a RB hasn’t proven successful either.

Grupe has been serviceable but he seems to always have one miss in him regardless of distance. I heard Prister explain he struggles from one of the hashes so maybe that’s still an issue. It could be worse so It’s not like I expect perfection. Hopefully, they have a solid kicker lined up for next season.

If there’s an “All Transfer” team, Jon Sott has to be on it. Dude is nails.

I haven’t re-watched the game, but it seemed the LB had some nice moments and didn’t get washed out.

I had a feeling that backup at SU may be trouble after his first drive. Once he got comfortable in the pocket, he looked really good. It’s a small sample size but he looks better than Schrader. I know Schrader really improved his passing efficiency this year but it looks like their OC put him in position to succeed w/ short-to-medium passes as he’s not exactly piling up the yardage. This Del Rio kid though has a live arm. He’d be fun to watch if not playing ND.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Listening to other broadcasts, I’m constantly reminded how difficult it is to find a good pairing. So many announcing teams suck.

Joe Tessitore tries waaaay too hard. I’ve heard him in interviewed on a podcast & he seems like a great guy. That said, I‘m not a fan of him calling football games. He’s probably great doing boxing.

McElroy is decent. I thought he was great at saying the obvious w/o saying “Drew Pyne can’t complete a pass”….In other words, “Run the Damn Ball no matter what”! He also called out the incorrect positioning on Morrison trying to cover Gadson on the TD where he invited the slant & noted that while Alt was flagged for false start its incumbent on his QB not to leave them in a crouched position for so long when he changes the play call.

What irked me about McElroy is when he went silent on the “off sides” call that negated the Joseph INT. Neither broadcaster bothered to show the viewing audience which is rare & really only paid it lip service. Tess just said “They’re gonna replay third down” and left it at that.

 

[BeatSC]

Btw Pyne was 6-15 after he missed Meyer for a first down in the first drive. The Clemson backup looked and played a lot better than their starter. Maybe our backup could do the same. Once again Pyne did little to make Tommy look good. He made 3-4 good throws and a few good decisions. He also made 3-4 or more bad throws. Would love to be a fly on the wall with the coaches if they are having candid conversations about the QB room. We have good OL, great TEs, very good RBs which is not evident until game 3. I’m convinced if given this much time that Buchner would be playing head and shoulders above Pyne. I’m ok with Buchner starting next year but need a QB transfer and a new OC. Pyne has been good only for Meyer since he locks on him all the time.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Btw Pyne was 6-15 after he missed Meyer for a first down in the first drive. The Clemson backup looked and played a lot better than their starter. Maybe our backup could do the same. Once again Pyne did little to make Tommy look good. He made 3-4 good throws and a few good decisions. He also made 3-4 or more bad throws. Would love to be a fly on the wall with the coaches if they are having candid conversations about the QB room. We have good OL, great TEs, very good RBs which is not evident until game 3. I’m convinced if given this much time that Buchner would be playing head and shoulders above Pyne. I’m ok with Buchner starting next year but need a QB transfer and a new OC. Pyne has been good only for Meyer since he locks on him all the time.

I missed first half of Clemson game so I didn’t see all the turnovers or DJU’s overall play. I did watch Klubnik and I expected more considering Dabo was willing to send in his 5-star true freshman. He was lucky he didn’t get intercepted by SU. His best pass was the long incompletion that drew a DPI and converted a 3rd & long. Other than that, he just ran read option. I’m sure he’ll look great w/ more reps but I’d be surprised if we see him get serious snaps unless DJU shits the bed again or it’s mop up duty.

 

[Irish2155]

Tommy thinks too much. We literally would have won that game yesterday with a QB that had no arms. Just straight/down hill. It wasn’t going to be stopped.

But we stalled when Tommy put the ball in the hands of the QB.

It’s really wasn’t hard yesterday but Tommy made it difficult. North/South to Diggs or Estime. ‘Cuse had no answer. Our only stops were self inflicted dumb play calling

 

[MacIrish75]

Was able to catch the first half of the game. Can't much complain about the Irish yesterday.

that’s because we’re your backup team

 

[Dale]

You can’t just not pass in a game. Especially the week before a game you will 100% need to pass to have a chance. Whatever shred of confidence would be shot.

 

[MacIrish75]

Refs were horrible. Didn’t mind the color guy but the play by play guy sucked. Even the wife mentioned he sounded like he was rooting for Syracuse.

Greg McElroy is awful, always.

I generally like Tess—but he’s from upper New York and went to BC. We’re not gonna get any love from him.

 

[Irish2155]

You can’t just not pass in a game. Especially the week before a game you will 100% need to pass to have a chance m. Whatever shred of confidence would be shot

Good point but who say that we need that next week? If we need to pass, then we’re fucked. 100% is very tall.

 

[Dale]

Good point but who say that we need that next week? If we need to pass, then we’re fucked. 100% is very tall.

NDs run game in almost every big game in the last 5 years. Trenton Simpson, Breese, Henry, Murphy etc

 

[Old Man Mike]

Two cents FWIW (not much admittedly.)
A. "My" Big Boys are REAL good. (To the few on IE who were ignoramuses, politely, up yours. To the Harry Hiestand haters, a pathetic few that you are, a double dose of digitus profanus.)
B. Passing game still stinks, but not their (the OLines) fault.
C. Estime+Diggs could be AA if they had passing game support.
D. Rees HAS to call some passes to keep things at least a little confusing for D's. (unfortunately)
E. To that: Mayer needs several looks regardless --- now he's almost like a soccer striker --- most occasions not too productive, but he will still put one or two "in the net/endzone".
F. I think that Rees is doing a reasonable job 90% of the time. His getting away from the run is not uniformly in error. Sometimes it's a reasonable attempt at balance/unpredictability and trying like He!l to get Pyne's head in the game. Other times he's overthinking this and should just pound the opponents' brains out.
G. Drew Pyne .... sigh. Good kid. Pretty good if he's a backup QB not thinking that he's the Pressured Starter. I was surprised at this personality weakness. He is shook. There's is nothing I have seen which explains his continual short arming and poor (indecisive) wobble passing on short throws. Tommy is going to need psychiatric treatment on this. Look at him in the booth. He calls a great "successful" pattern --- receiver is wide open for a gimme. Drew shortarms the thing --- often just badly enough that we can rationalize that it wasn't all his fault. I've been REALLY supportive of Pyne. But he's shook. I thought he could handle it (it's not talent; it's psyche --- we can move the damm ball through the air now with the vast majority of Tommy's calls/designs); but Drew (right now anyway) can not handle it. Maybe the weight will go away. I've seen that from one year to a next, but not this late in a season. More pain coming I think.
H. The defense was good --- faster all over than some previous games (especially Stanford.) If we get a little healthier, then more fun. Foskey has turned on the light. Linebackers have adjusted to injuries.
I. Special teams. Pretty damm good. Not sure that I believe I am watching Notre Dame.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Two cents FWIW (not much admittedly.)
A. "My" Big Boys are REAL good. (To the few on IE who were ignoramuses, politely, up yours. To the Harry Hiestand haters, a pathetic few that you are, a double dose of digitus profanus.)
B. Passing game still stinks, but not their (the OLines) fault.
C. Estime+Diggs could be AA if they had passing game support.
D. Rees HAS to call some passes to keep things at least a little confusing for D's. (unfortunately)
E. To that: Mayer needs several looks regardless --- now he's almost like a soccer striker --- most occasions not too productive, but he will still put one or two "in the net/endzone".
F. I think that Rees is doing a reasonable job 90% of the time. His getting away from the run is not uniformly in error. Sometimes it's a reasonable attempt at balance/unpredictability and trying like He!l to get Pyne's head in the game. Other times he's overthinking this and should just pound the opponents' brains out.
G. Drew Pyne .... sigh. Good kid. Pretty good if he's a backup QB not thinking that he's the Pressured Starter. I was surprised at this personality weakness. He is shook. There's is nothing I have seen which explains his continual short arming and poor (indecisive) wobble passing on short throws. Tommy is going to need psychiatric treatment on this. Look at him in the booth. He calls a great "successful" pattern --- receiver is wide open for a gimme. Drew shortarms the thing --- often just badly enough that we can rationalize that it wasn't all his fault. I've been REALLY supportive of Pyne. But he's shook. I thought he could handle it (it's not talent; it's psyche --- we can move the damm ball through the air now with the vast majority of Tommy's calls/designs); but Drew (right now anyway) can not handle it. Maybe the weight will go away. I've seen that from one year to a next, but not this late in a season. More pain coming I think.
H. The defense was good --- faster all over than some previous games (especially Stanford.) If we get a little healthier, then more fun. Foskey has turned on the light. Linebackers have adjusted to injuries.
I. Special teams. Pretty damm good. Not sure that I believe I am watching Notre Dame.

I agree with everything except the Rees percentage - drop that to about 70% (maybe less) and this is spot on.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To clarify "90%" (not that anybody cares):

An OC playcaller assesses what's happening & thinks of an immediate play and perhaps what the next several (chess game) plays he'd like to set up. The current play is primary of course, but the future-looking set-up plays are not trivial. There are times when a certain play is call to check coverage and defensive game planning too. Hopefully these are not wasted plays, but, to my information, every OC calls some of these.

I have closely listened to NDs several game announcers' comments on the play calls. The total times that they complain about a Rees playcall on fundamental-gameplan-error grounds are very small. This last game, those "philosophical" objections were confined to two Tyree calls running laterally (one of which might have been the RBs wrong read rather than play design,) and the two series where we did not pound the run as much as we should --- the announcers even there admitted that Rees needed to call SOME passes.

So, calling plays which are "theoretically" understandable is different from plays that turn out to actually be productive. Hopefully that's obvious, but just in case: This is true because there are two teams on the field. Both teams are composed of talented trained players. Both teams will make plays and make them about half/50% of the time --- for sure the defense has to be successful CLOSE to 50% of the time, or football would be no game (just a heavily armored track meet.)

It's still debatable of course, but having listened to football people both in game and out speak of Rees' playcalling, I, along with my own eyes, believe that he usually calls a play that is understandable from a football perspective. Some of those plays fail due to lousy execution; some fail due to really excellent defensive athlete execution; and some fail due to the DC calling something wherein his defense shifts late into just the worst pattern for the play called. In those latter problem situations, the offense needs the QB to have such a calm and superb grasp that he gets the team into some other play, or improvises. Stop and think for a moment how often you believe Drew does that, in contrast to say, Ian.

I honestly believe that most "fans" understand football so shallowly that they don't think about any of this. (But they should before making really strong statements about where the failures arise.)

 

[bkess8]

Can someone make a gif of the Estime stuff arm so I can change my profile picture?

 

[IRISHDODGER]

NDs run game in almost every big game in the last 5 years. Trenton Simpson, Breese, Henry, Murphy etc

Exactly. When’s the last time ND’s ran on a Championship-level D?

 

[NDIrish1988]

I agree

 

[T-Boone]

Tommy thinks too much. We literally would have won that game yesterday with a QB that had no arms. Just straight/down hill. It wasn’t going to be stopped.

But we stalled when Tommy put the ball in the hands of the QB.

It’s really wasn’t hard yesterday but Tommy made it difficult. North/South to Diggs or Estime. ‘Cuse had no answer. Our only stops were self inflicted dumb play calling

That is what cost the Stanford game as well.

 

[Rudy89]

Two cents FWIW (not much admittedly.)
A. "My" Big Boys are REAL good. (To the few on IE who were ignoramuses, politely, up yours. To the Harry Hiestand haters, a pathetic few that you are, a double dose of digitus profanus.)
B. Passing game still stinks, but not their (the OLines) fault.
C. Estime+Diggs could be AA if they had passing game support.
D. Rees HAS to call some passes to keep things at least a little confusing for D's. (unfortunately)
E. To that: Mayer needs several looks regardless --- now he's almost like a soccer striker --- most occasions not too productive, but he will still put one or two "in the net/endzone".
F. I think that Rees is doing a reasonable job 90% of the time. His getting away from the run is not uniformly in error. Sometimes it's a reasonable attempt at balance/unpredictability and trying like He!l to get Pyne's head in the game. Other times he's overthinking this and should just pound the opponents' brains out.
G. Drew Pyne .... sigh. Good kid. Pretty good if he's a backup QB not thinking that he's the Pressured Starter. I was surprised at this personality weakness. He is shook. There's is nothing I have seen which explains his continual short arming and poor (indecisive) wobble passing on short throws. Tommy is going to need psychiatric treatment on this. Look at him in the booth. He calls a great "successful" pattern --- receiver is wide open for a gimme. Drew shortarms the thing --- often just badly enough that we can rationalize that it wasn't all his fault. I've been REALLY supportive of Pyne. But he's shook. I thought he could handle it (it's not talent; it's psyche --- we can move the damm ball through the air now with the vast majority of Tommy's calls/designs); but Drew (right now anyway) can not handle it. Maybe the weight will go away. I've seen that from one year to a next, but not this late in a season. More pain coming I think.
H. The defense was good --- faster all over than some previous games (especially Stanford.) If we get a little healthier, then more fun. Foskey has turned on the light. Linebackers have adjusted to injuries.
I. Special teams. Pretty damm good. Not sure that I believe I am watching Notre Dame.

Your opinion is one I like to hear the most on these boards!

 

[NDisme]

Still truly baffling that this wasn’t called and the Broadcast didn't say anything and no replay showed

 

[ulukinatme]

Rees. For real though who is the better QB Rees or Pyne? Don’t give me the pointing Spider-Man meme it’s too easy

This reply is weird. It says I wrote it, but it came from @GrangerIrish24 lol

 

[pumpdog20]

Estime might just be my favorite RB since the bus. Him and Diggs together are gonna be hell moving forward.

Over KW?

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Still truly baffling that this wasn’t called and the Broadcast didn't say anything and no replay showed
View attachment 3051748

Agreed. Also shortly after the facemask call against us when the facemask wasnt even touched let alome grabbed or pulled. They showed replay and again nobody said a word.

 

[KPENN]

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Over KW?

I love KW. I do but I been waiting for a bruiser for a long time.

 

[irishtrain]

QB play has of course been up and down-Pyne can do this but he needs to keep growing into confidence-I doubt if he feels like this is his team-probably feels like he's filling in until they take him out-with that said he can throw the ball-my take is because of the up and down game to game profile of this team its not very well coached and lacks discipline and attention to detail. That goes right to the top-college guys need to be taught this.

 

[rtrn2glory]

QB play has of course been up and down-Pyne can do this but he needs to keep growing into confidence-I doubt if he feels like this is his team-probably feels like he's filling in until they take him out-with that said he can throw the ball-my take is because of the up and down game to game profile of this team its not very well coached and lacks discipline and attention to detail. That goes right to the top-college guys need to be taught this.

Ian Book was in a similar situation and garnered different results. If he wants the job he's going to have to take it, which he hasn't done anything so far to do so. Just goes to show you how good Ian Book actually was. Was he elite, no, but he was a darn good college QB and I don't think he gets the credit he deserves.

 

[CoachB]

To clarify "90%" (not that anybody cares):

An OC playcaller assesses what's happening & thinks of an immediate play and perhaps what the next several (chess game) plays he'd like to set up. The current play is primary of course, but the future-looking set-up plays are not trivial. There are times when a certain play is call to check coverage and defensive game planning too. Hopefully these are not wasted plays, but, to my information, every OC calls some of these.

I have closely listened to NDs several game announcers' comments on the play calls. The total times that they complain about a Rees playcall on fundamental-gameplan-error grounds are very small. This last game, those "philosophical" objections were confined to two Tyree calls running laterally (one of which might have been the RBs wrong read rather than play design,) and the two series where we did not pound the run as much as we should --- the announcers even there admitted that Rees needed to call SOME passes.

So, calling plays which are "theoretically" understandable is different from plays that turn out to actually be productive. Hopefully that's obvious, but just in case: This is true because there are two teams on the field. Both teams are composed of talented trained players. Both teams will make plays and make them about half/50% of the time --- for sure the defense has to be successful CLOSE to 50% of the time, or football would be no game (just a heavily armored track meet.)

It's still debatable of course, but having listened to football people both in game and out speak of Rees' playcalling, I, along with my own eyes, believe that he usually calls a play that is understandable from a football perspective. Some of those plays fail due to lousy execution; some fail due to really excellent defensive athlete execution; and some fail due to the DC calling something wherein his defense shifts late into just the worst pattern for the play called. In those latter problem situations, the offense needs the QB to have such a calm and superb grasp that he gets the team into some other play, or improvises. Stop and think for a moment how often you believe Drew does that, in contrast to say, Ian.

I honestly believe that most "fans" understand football so shallowly that they don't think about any of this. (But they should before making really strong statements about where the failures arise.)

1000% spot on!