Oct 17 | Louisville

[Luckylucci]

We need our offense to look like the rams in my opinion. Center it on the run game and then open up the dynamic pass routes on your play action.

Agreed. I have no idea why we ever get away from it. Get creative off of play action. Not empty back sets in the RZ.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

- As good as the defense is, the Buck LB position seems like it’s at its worst since Elko and Lea got here. I think they need to pick a guy and get him more reps. I’m taping out on this 3 man depth chart.

So which of the 3 you going to settle on? None have impressed except for Kiser against USF, but I’m not sure what to make of Kiser vs USF as I think any of the 3 would have dominated that game.

What I would like to see is Bo move to Buck and play alongside Drew White at Mike.


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[317Irish]

Ian Book would beat out Tom Brady by a couple miles in the same year as TB’s development at Michigan. I’ll never understand the Debbie downers when it comes to the quarterback situation. You have to have a receiver or 2 that can separate himself and catch the damn ball when it’s thrown to them...

I’m not sure what u watch or read to form ur opinions. They usually leave me wondering why u lack the ability to learn from those who have more knowledge than u.

 

[Luckylucci]

So which of the 3 you going to settle on? None have impressed except for Kiser against USF, but I’m not sure what to make of Kiser vs USF as I think any of the 3 would have dominated that game.

What I would like to see is Bo move to Buck and play alongside Drew White at Mike.


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I have no idea where to start. Last week I said Kiser but I wasn’t impressed with his reps today. I’m just more of the mindset that we have enough of a sample size that the split reps system is not working so maybe more reps for one, would work.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I have no idea where to start. Last week I said Kiser but I wasn’t impressed with his reps today. I’m just more of the mindset that we have enough of a sample size that the split reps system is not working so maybe more reps for one, would work.

True....true. I think I would go with Bo Bauer at Buck and Drew White at Mike.....................

Oh Shit it’s time for Lomachenko!


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[ulukinatme]

What point are you trying to make? Everyone agrees that Book is much better than Wimbush. It doesn’t change the fact that A) he has severe limitations and B) his play is holding back the Irish from competing at an elite level.

I like Book. He’s a winner. But he’s reached his ceiling and it’s not good enough considering what we think this team can accomplish otherwise.

I get it, Book pales in comparison when you put him next to a Trevor Lawrence. Bottom line though is Book is the best we have at this time. No sense piling on the guy when he's playing at or above his potential, you can't ask for more than that. Better to point the finger at poor recruiting or the players that have failed to reach their potential. Too much piling on the guy that is doing his best to keep us winning, some others need the quick kick in the pants..

 

[Irish YJ]

True....true. I think I would go with Bo Bauer at Buck and Drew White at Mike.....................

Oh Shit it’s time for Lomachenko!


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I was going to say Bo at Mike and White or Kiser at Buck.

 

[Irish2155]

If Jack Kiser is ready, then so am I. Double down.

 

[ThePiombino]

So which of the 3 you going to settle on? None have impressed except for Kiser against USF, but I’m not sure what to make of Kiser vs USF as I think any of the 3 would have dominated that game.

What I would like to see is Bo move to Buck and play alongside Drew White at Mike.


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Not sure which is the answer, but I know which is not - Simon. He just looks slow out there, always a step behind or running in the complete wrong direction. He's the better athlete than Kiser, but by far the worse LB.

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[rtrn2glory]

Agree with that... He seems to be so off in terms of his run fits. It just looks so unnatural. One play comes to mind I'm the second quarter I wish I had it on tape, but it was textbook run fit and scrape to make the tackle and he got too nosey on the plugged interior. I thought right there this guy can't play it doesn't get any more fundamental than that. We are in a lot of trouble and a number of positions on both sides of the ball and what worries me is our lack of depth is going to really hurt us sooner than later

 

[notredomer23]

Take out plays of 28,28, and 29 from Louisville, the defense gave up 148 yards on 37 plays. We dominated them defensively, in fact id argue it’s one of the most defensive dominating performances of the Kelly era and it’s going to get lost in translation because of how awful Book was.

 

[IrishLax]

Take out plays of 28,28, and 29 from Louisville, the defense gave up 148 yards on 37 plays. We dominated them defensively, in fact id argue it’s one of the most defensive dominating performances of the Kelly era and it’s going to get lost in translation because of how awful Book was.

Yeah, I rewatched the game this morning after I woke up and at no point was the defense even seriously threatened. They had one drive where they converted a 4th down and dialed up a big play which you at least have to give them (some) credit for even though it was a bust by the ND defense. Besides that, they got throttled.

The OL also smacked people around and Kyren Williams ran for 5 yards per carry against a stacked box.

Book and the WRs and Rees all deserve some blame. I wonder how much the wind really was an issue but that was the least inventive passing game I've ever seen... and on top of that, Book failed to execute. Late on everything. Happy feet. And WRs didn't help him out. It was ridiculous watching the team on any 3rd & 7 situation look like they had no clue how they were going to convert it.

But for a TEAM performance it was not nearly as bad as I thought live or the score would indicate.

 

[ThePiombino]

Yeah, I rewatched the game this morning after I woke up and at no point was the defense even seriously threatened. They had one drive where they converted a 4th down and dialed up a big play which you at least have to give them (some) credit for even though it was a bust by the ND defense. Besides that, they got throttled.

The OL also smacked people around and Kyren Williams ran for 5 yards per carry against a stacked box.

Book and the WRs and Rees all deserve some blame. I wonder how much the wind really was an issue but that was the least inventive passing game I've ever seen... and on top of that, Book failed to execute. Late on everything. Happy feet. And WRs didn't help him out. It was ridiculous watching the team on any 3rd & 7 situation look like they had no clue how they were going to convert it.

But for a TEAM performance it was not nearly as bad as I thought live or the score would indicate.

It's pretty clear by now that on any 3rd and medium, the only way ND could possibly convert is when Book inevitably bails on the pocket after his 1st read isn't there and scrambles for the yardage needed.

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[domer13]

Yeah, I rewatched the game this morning after I woke up and at no point was the defense even seriously threatened. They had one drive where they converted a 4th down and dialed up a big play which you at least have to give them (some) credit for even though it was a bust by the ND defense. Besides that, they got throttled.

The OL also smacked people around and Kyren Williams ran for 5 yards per carry against a stacked box.

Book and the WRs and Rees all deserve some blame. I wonder how much the wind really was an issue but that was the least inventive passing game I've ever seen... and on top of that, Book failed to execute. Late on everything. Happy feet. And WRs didn't help him out. It was ridiculous watching the team on any 3rd & 7 situation look like they had no clue how they were going to convert it.

But for a TEAM performance it was not nearly as bad as I thought live or the score would indicate.

Wind was definitely an issue in the stadium, especially in the first half. Fairly consistent driving and swirling wind with frequent gusts (at least that's how it felt 50 rows up). It didn't seem like Book (or the Louisville QB) could get any zip on the ball on throws above ~15-20 yards into the wind. Overall, though, definitely wasn't the windiest game I've been at.

And agree on 3rd and long. There was no confidence that we would be able execute anything other than screens or short rub routes across the middle.

Defense played a great game overall - especially with the pressure of knowing how little offense we were going to get (partly due to how few possessions there were all game).

 

[tko]

I'm baffled how that throw to Javon on the last drive got completed on third down. I liked the other call to Ben on the second third down. I'm still pissed at how the defense allowed Cunningham to have two long runs to begin the second half. We needed a better job of containing him to the inside.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

My
Concern is the WR’s getting zero separation on the corner. If Kelly thinks playing the WR’s we had out there yesterday against Clemson will work I’m sorry it won’t. Why not start getting Xavier Watts and Johnson snaps your gonna need speed against them

 

[tko]

Can Lenzy stay healthy one time, my goodness. His speed could've helped yesterday in loosening them up. Also, I can't wait to get Austin into a groove sooner than later. Hopefully, yesterday's reps go a long way to achieving that goal.

 

[BabyIrish]

Agree with that... He seems to be so off in terms of his run fits. It just looks so unnatural. One play comes to mind I'm the second quarter I wish I had it on tape, but it was textbook run fit and scrape to make the tackle and he got too nosey on the plugged interior. I thought right there this guy can't play it doesn't get any more fundamental than that. We are in a lot of trouble and a number of positions on both sides of the ball and what worries me is our lack of depth is going to really hurt us sooner than later

Lack of depth? I personally think this is the deepest team ND has fielded in decades. For whatever reason we aren’t getting production at the buck and wr position. I think we need to run with Kiser at buck and spell him with Liafau every now and then. I don’t know what’s going on at wr, but we can’t seem to get our electric playmakers on the field. Which means our offense is becoming very predictable. We have the weapons. I’m convinced that Clemson would find a way to get Austin, Lenzy, JJ, Keys and Watt more involved. Why we can’t continues to baffle me. I think we could be wasting a year to win the title by not developing these guys at the wr position.

 

[Circa]

I’m not sure what u watch or read to form ur opinions. They usually leave me wondering why u lack the ability to learn from those who have more knowledge than u.

Not sure what your referring to? Our lack of receivers or Tom Brady sucking at Michigan? Or is it the fact that every issue we’ve ever had is because of the QB or the Coach... gets a little redundant after hearing the same excuses by everyone who wants a single person to blame.

 

[Irishize]

It's pretty clear by now that on any 3rd and medium, the only way ND could possibly convert is when Book inevitably bails on the pocket after his 1st read isn't there and scrambles for the yardage needed.

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Teams will simply start putting a spy on Book on 3rd & medium/long to prevent him from running for the 1st down. The one pass route that has been consistently successful is the crossers. That’s mainly due to the other WR providing screens or even picks that gets the under WR wide open. That will be snuffed out on film as well now that it’s a tendency.

 

[Irishize]

I have no idea where to start. Last week I said Kiser but I wasn’t impressed with his reps today. I’m just more of the mindset that we have enough of a sample size that the split reps system is not working so maybe more reps for one, would work.

We were told not to expect much from Kiser or MTA as they are coming off COVID restrictions (not re if they tested positive or were contact traced) and weren’t back up to condition to play the majority of snaps. I’m not ready to dismiss Kiser until he’s back to his previous health. Not saying he’s the no doubt starter but he deserves a shot to show USF wasn’t a fluke.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Can Lenzy stay healthy one time, my goodness. His speed could've helped yesterday in loosening them up. Also, I can't wait to get Austin into a groove sooner than later. Hopefully, yesterday's reps go a long way to achieving that goal.

If by loosening them up you mean a stretch play down field, I'd argue you need someone that can get the ball down field to him. I'm not sure Will Fuller could do much to help this offense (QB) in that regard and we know what he was capable of.

 

[SoIll]

My
Concern is the WR’s getting zero separation on the corner. If Kelly thinks playing the WR’s we had out there yesterday against Clemson will work I’m sorry it won’t. Why not start getting Xavier Watts and Johnson snaps your gonna need speed against them

Okay Driskell..

 

[AllTimeIrish]

My
Concern is the WR’s getting zero separation on the corner. If Kelly thinks playing the WR’s we had out there yesterday against Clemson will work I’m sorry it won’t. Why not start getting Xavier Watts and Johnson snaps your gonna need speed against them

People always want to rush Freshman and it rarely works. True there is the rare gem that can play their first year out of high school, but those are exceptions. And you can ruin the confidence of young men if you play and expect too much from them early.

 

[AllTimeIrish]

Lack of depth? I personally think this is the deepest team ND has fielded in decades. For whatever reason we aren’t getting production at the buck and wr position. I think we need to run with Kiser at buck and spell him with Liafau every now and then. I don’t know what’s going on at wr, but we can’t seem to get our electric playmakers on the field. Which means our offense is becoming very predictable. We have the weapons. I’m convinced that Clemson would find a way to get Austin, Lenzy, JJ, Keys and Watt more involved. Why we can’t continues to baffle me. I think we could be wasting a year to win the title by not developing these guys at the wr position.

My opinion - the starting WR are largely spares, except for Austin, whom they are trying to work back in and it will take time.

McKinley has never lived up to his hype, and he is not a game breaking receiver at this level. There are no athletic traits that differentiate him. He has good size, runs decent routes, but is not overly fast nor does he excel at jumping and high-pointing the ball. He is never going to be a consistently big performer. He should be option 3-4 on a good team.

Avery Davis is a converted QB who went CB and RB before WR. He is athletic and can be used on trick plays like yesterday, but is not going to be a consistent performer in the slot. He could be a fairly productive 3rd to 4th option, but that is it. See McKinley for lack of distinguishing traits at this level.

Lenzy and Keys are low 4-star WRs that are slight receivers with speed, Lenzy being the true burner of the bunch. Both have under impressed the staff, which is why Avery Davis is starting at the slot. I am surprised neither Lenzy or Keys have broken out, but perhaps it has to do with the QB and his lack of arm affecting his consistency with down field throws. I would think Clemson's QB could hit them consistently down field, but who knows if they are even getting open in practice. These two represent the biggest potential upside, along with Austin at WR this year, but who knows whether either finally figures it out.

Ben Skowronek is a progress stopper standing in the way of the young WRs. He doesn't have any distinguishing characteristics, ala Davis and McKinley, so I don't see the point of involving him on the offense too much. He will not show up against talented opponents like Clemson who can run elite CBs at him all day using single coverage.

Joe Wilkins is a CB turned WR who possesses good height, but was a middle quality prospect. He could turn into something but I am not holding my breath honestly.

Given our current QB, it is not a given that any WR, regardless of personal progress in 2020, truly shines. The better prospects need to get the ball deep, and that is not Book's forte. The Irish are missing a Claypool type that Book does well with because the WR needs a big catch radius and size to go get Book's passes reliably, while also having the ability to break tackles and work their way down the field through traffic.

I see the TE's being the bigger contributors this year, as the Irish have several adept at catching the mid range pass that Book excels at. Not until we get a stronger-armed, more accurate QB are we going to see the deep threat WRs truly develop at ND.

 

[EifertPower]

Yesterday's game was mostly about receivers not being good and not getting separation, poor play calling by Rees, and annoying arrogance by Kelly in not kicking the fg and in going for 2.

Book didnt play poorly. He missed Mayer on the first drive but other than that was okay. He made some nice runs, threw no interceptions, and had no fumbles. He's not an elite quarterback and isn't good at throwing long but he's not terrible. I am frustrated too that in 10+ years of Kelly we haven't ever had an elite QB and never had a QB improve year-to-year.

But blaming the offense always on Book just isn't true. Skowronek, Wilkins, and McKinley are average at best agreed. But we might have two of the best tight ends in the country and have speed in Lenzy and Austin but neither can seem to stay healthy.

Tommy Rees is a terrible play caller. He calls plays as if our offense has him as QB. Brian Kelly is a terrible game manager. Our secondary other than Kyle Hamilton is very suspect. That and injuries will be our downfall.

 

[AllTimeIrish]

Book badly missed two throws that he should have made, and on replay he missed multiple open receivers. One of which was RB #25 7 yards downfield right in front of him that would have resulted in an obvious first down. Instead he panics, runs for a short gain, and we punt.

I will give you the stiff wind affected Book on some long, cross field throws. Tommy should not have called those plays. But we are talking a pattern of Book missing seeing receivers, not pulling trigger downfield , and getting happy feet too often.

At this point Book should have developed into a pass first QB that can run, but he doesn’t have the arm to rely on. It’s a problem in statement games, and was a problem today against an inferior team.

 

[ThePiombino]

Okay Driskell..

He's not wrong.

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[zelezo vlk]

Anyone got a replay?

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[Irish YJ]

Yea, I really can't remember a less dynamic group of starting WRs...

Ben Skowronek??? Looks like a slow skinny TE.

Love Javon, and helluva blocker, but he's not 1st string on any other top tier team. Would love to see him work out of the slot as a bully, but he's just not dynamic enough to be outside.

AD has been moved around so much he has a sticky note on his bathroom mirror that says "WR Today" on it.

Lenzy, Wilkens, and Keys just can't seem to emerge.

Austin is the only guy that looks the part, and he's been either hurt or in the dog house. Hoping he's back for good and make some noise by the time Clemson rolls in.

Would love to see Johnson and Watts get a look.