Obamacare

[sfk324]

I could care less who started it...republicans and democrats are all a*sholes.
It's hard to imagine how a normal American citizen knows more about constitutionality than our own Supreme Court.Very sad day for our country.

You base this assertion on what exactly? Your own view of what the Constitution says and whether the sitting court agrees with that view? That is rather specious reasoning.

 

[GoIrish41]

But for those who already buy their own insurance rightfully with their own money and will now have to pay for those who don't this is not a great day.

Actually, that is what is happening right now. Making it the law for everyone to have insurance will not make your rates go up. If anything, they will go down. If they do go up, it will be because insurance companies are doing what insurance companies do - price gouging.

 

[sfk324]

That was before my time in politics. Do you have any links or anything to back this statement up? I want to make sure your statement like"operation fast and furious" being a bush program. Either way I don't care who came up with it who passes it or who had a hand in it. I believe it is wrong. I am for me providing for myself. I want to live my life without the government's handouts, mandates, or any other interference. I want to earn my money and pay my bills as I see fit for my family.

Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long | Fox News

As much as I dislike Fox News, they would be the last to admit The Heritage Foundation was the source of the mandate given their parallel political leanings if there was any ability to claim otherwise. I've seen it reported elsewhere as well, a short google search of "Heritage Fundation individual healthcare mandate" will return plenty of other results running the political gamut.

 

[DSully1995]

Actually, that is what is happening right now. Making it the law for everyone to have insurance will not make your rates go up. If anything, they will go down. If they do go up, it will be because insurance companies are doing what insurance companies do - price gouging.

Could I see your sources for this?

 

[JadeBrecks]

You say this seemingly spitefully. the Pre-existing conditions people, all they want to do is buy HI, now they can

Because I am paying for those pre existing conditions. I worked long and hard to make sure I was covered by insurance at all times even when my work didn't offer insurance to prevent me from getting a pre existing condition. I now have to pussy for those who didn't make those sacrifices and work the extra like I did to get that issuance. I know life sucks and things go wrong. I have had to buy my insurance when between jobs, when without a job, and when I had a job that didn't offer it. Now that is all washed away and I will be lumped in with anyone who didn't. Can you see a reason for frustration?

 

[GoIrish41]

That was before my time in politics. Do you have any links or anything to back this statement up? I want to make sure your statement like"operation fast and furious" being a bush program. Either way I don't care who came up with it who passes it or who had a hand in it. I believe it is wrong. I am for me providing for myself. I want to live my life without the government's handouts, mandates, or any other interference. I want to earn my money and pay my bills as I see fit for my family.

Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long | Fox News

 

[Grahambo]

I hear Obamacare got a bump up to 4 stars on 247 and moved up to #51 overall. Rumor has Alabama offering soon. ND in Top 5.

 

[JadeBrecks]

Actually, that is what is happening right now. Making it the law for everyone to have insurance will not make your rates go up. If anything, they will go down. If they do go up, it will be because insurance companies are doing what insurance companies do - price gouging.

No it won't because the issuance companies are being required to cover a lot of extras that weren't before. Now I will have to by insurance that covers a lot of useless stuff I don't want or have now.

 

[Cackalacky]

That was before my time in politics. Do you have any links or anything to back this statement up? I want to make sure your statement like"operation fast and furious" being a bush program. Either way I don't care who came up with it who passes it or who had a hand in it. I believe it is wrong. I am for me providing for myself. I want to live my life without the government's handouts, mandates, or any other interference. I want to earn my money and pay my bills as I see fit for my family.

"Republican Health Care bill of 1993 [Senate Bill S.1770], written by GOP Senator John Chafee of Rhode Island, included a provision for an “Individual Mandate” – a requirement that individuals must purchase health insurance. Interestingly enough, nearly half the Republican Caucus in the Senate agree with this bill creating the “individual mandate” and the 20 co-sponsors included GOP Senators Ben-Nett, Bond, Brown, Cohen, Danforth, Dole, Domenici, Durenberger, Faircloth, Gorton, Grassley, Hatfield, Kassebaum, Lugar, Specter, Stevens and Warner" Daily Kos: Scum: GOP attempt to Block the President on Health Care . . . with Individual Mandate . . . In 1993.

Here is a link to the bill
Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993 (1993; 103rd Congress S. 1770) - GovTrack.us

co-sponsors:
Cosponsors:show cosponsors (20)
Sen. Robert Bennett [R-UT, 1993-2010]
Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond [R-MO, 1987-2010]
Sen. George “Hank” Brown [R-CO, 1991-1996] (withdrawn Oct 04, 1994)
Sen. William Cohen [R-ME, 1979-1996]
Sen. John Danforth [R-MO, 1976-1994]
Sen. Robert Dole [R-KS, 1969-1996]
Sen. Pete Domenici [R-NM, 1973-2009]
Sen. David Durenberger [R-MN, 1978-1994]
Sen. Duncan “Lauch” Faircloth [R-NC, 1993-1998]
Sen. Slade Gorton [R-WA, 1989-2000]
Sen. Charles “Chuck” Grassley [R-IA]
Sen. Orrin Hatch [R-UT]
Sen. Mark Hatfield [R-OR, 1967-1996]
Sen. Nancy Kassebaum [R-KS, 1978-1996]
Sen. Richard Lugar [R-IN]
Sen. Alan Simpson [R-WY, 1979-1996]
Sen. Arlen Specter [D-PA, 1981-2010]
Sen. Ted Stevens [R-AK, 1968-2009]
Sen. John Warner [R-VA, 1979-2009]
Sen. David Boren [D-OK, 1979-1994] (joined May 17, 1994)
Sen. Robert Kerrey [D-NE, 1989-2000] (joined May 17, 1994)

 

[irish4ever]

Great day to be an American!!! After the immigration ruling and now this. Wonderful to be part of the USA.

Bend over and be sure to bring plenty of vaseline, because the prez, congress and federal courts are basically saying that you are going to need it!!!

 

[Cackalacky]

No it won't because the issuance companies are being required to cover a lot of extras that weren't before. Now I will have to by insurance that covers a lot of useless stuff I don't want or have now.

No you dont. you will be able to by the minimum. There is nothing in there that says you have to buy the ultimate premium deluxe insurance package. Insurance companies will be clamoring to divde the market into all kinds of sub-markets. This will not hurt business one-bit. It may even create jobs

 

[irish4ever]

Actually, that is what is happening right now. Making it the law for everyone to have insurance will not make your rates go up. If anything, they will go down. If they do go up, it will be because insurance companies are doing what insurance companies do - price gouging.

Hahahahahaha. Who told you that one, Obama himself? Hahahaha that is really laughable!

 

[ab2cmiller]

Actually, that is what is happening right now. Making it the law for everyone to have insurance will not make your rates go up. If anything, they will go down. If they do go up, it will be because insurance companies are doing what insurance companies do - price gouging.

Therein lies the potential blame game. It would seem that health insurance is one of the most competitive industries out there as every company that I have been associated with has obtained competitive quotes on an annual basis in an effort to control costs. The only way that they could be "price gouging" is if you believe that they are all working in concert to artificially increase the premiums. Given how competitive the insurance market is, I find that highly unlikely that they would all "fall in line" and nobody price their rates more competitively in an effort to grab greater market share. The insurance companies used preexisting condition rules to try to keep their rates down so that they can remain competitive. The only hope that these changes don't increase the rates is if you have enough new participants (i.e. healthy individuals that didn't have insurance previously) to offset the increased costs of covering the preexisting conditions.

Insurance companies have been vilified already, and I can guarantee that if the rates do have to go up substantially, that the White House will cast the ENTIRE blame at their feet. Given the mathematical games that the White House used in an effort to say that these new rules won't increase the deficit, I know that I will look at those casting the blame with a very skeptical eye.

 

[woolybug25]

Sweet... another politics thread.

 

[JadeBrecks]

No you dont. you will be able to by the minimum. There is nothing in there that says you have to buy the ultimate premium deluxe insurance package. Insurance companies will be clamoring to divde the market into all kinds of sub-markets. This will not hurt business one-bit. It may even create jobs

I will be required to buy insurance that covers pre existing conditions. I will be required to buy insurance that pays for contraceptives with no deductible. Both of these are ones we know about. What else do we not know yet because ithasn't been implemented or brought up yet?

 

[JadeBrecks]

"Republican Health Care bill of 1993 [Senate Bill S.1770], written by GOP Senator John Chafee of Rhode Island, included a provision for an “Individual Mandate” – a requirement that individuals must purchase health insurance. Interestingly enough, nearly half the Republican Caucus in the Senate agree with this bill creating the “individual mandate” and the 20 co-sponsors included GOP Senators Ben-Nett, Bond, Brown, Cohen, Danforth, Dole, Domenici, Durenberger, Faircloth, Gorton, Grassley, Hatfield, Kassebaum, Lugar, Specter, Stevens and Warner" Daily Kos: Scum: GOP attempt to Block the President on Health Care . . . with Individual Mandate . . . In 1993.

Here is a link to the bill
Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993 (1993; 103rd Congress S. 1770) - GovTrack.us

co-sponsors:
Cosponsors:show cosponsors (20)
Sen. Robert Bennett [R-UT, 1993-2010]
Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond [R-MO, 1987-2010]
Sen. George “Hank” Brown [R-CO, 1991-1996] (withdrawn Oct 04, 1994)
Sen. William Cohen [R-ME, 1979-1996]
Sen. John Danforth [R-MO, 1976-1994]
Sen. Robert Dole [R-KS, 1969-1996]
Sen. Pete Domenici [R-NM, 1973-2009]
Sen. David Durenberger [R-MN, 1978-1994]
Sen. Duncan “Lauch” Faircloth [R-NC, 1993-1998]
Sen. Slade Gorton [R-WA, 1989-2000]
Sen. Charles “Chuck” Grassley [R-IA]
Sen. Orrin Hatch [R-UT]
Sen. Mark Hatfield [R-OR, 1967-1996]
Sen. Nancy Kassebaum [R-KS, 1978-1996]
Sen. Richard Lugar [R-IN]
Sen. Alan Simpson [R-WY, 1979-1996]
Sen. Arlen Specter [D-PA, 1981-2010]
Sen. Ted Stevens [R-AK, 1968-2009]
Sen. John Warner [R-VA, 1979-2009]
Sen. David Boren [D-OK, 1979-1994] (joined May 17, 1994)
Sen. Robert Kerrey [D-NE, 1989-2000] (joined May 17, 1994)

Thank you for this. I still believe it is wrong. I don't believe in the government forcing you to buy anything. With the fast and furious thing dem were claiming it was a bush idea when it wasn't remotely close to the same thing when you dug into it.

 

[Cackalacky]

Yuo see thats where I find you wrong. The insurance compagnies were rejecting people alot, for pre existing because the costs wouldnt add up in their calculation, and still wont. I think insurance compagnies lose more than they gain.

try finding house insurance in hurricane prone areas, such as where i live..... Insurance companies are some of the most profitable in the country. Particualrly health insurance. You are a percentage or probability, if you will, to them, nothing more.....

 

[Cackalacky]

I will be required to buy insurance that covers pre existing conditions. I will be required to buy insurance that pays for contraceptives with no deductible. Both of these are ones we know about. What else do we not know yet because ithasn't been implemented or brought up yet?

IMO I will bet once this market sets itself up, you will be able to buy health insurance off a menu. Or it will be like cable tv. Its capitalism, the market will take care of itself....I really think peopl are over reacting at this point.

i still want to read the SC opinions....

 

[Jason Pham]

IMO I will bet once this market sets itself up, you will be able to buy health insurance off a menu. Or it will be like cable tv. Its capitalism, the market will take care of itself....I really think peopl are over reacting at this point.

i still want to read the SC opinions....

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

 

[Cackalacky]

thanks. I will now suspend comments until I can read the 193 page decisions.

 

[nin05]

Well, the United States is one step closer to joining the rest of the developed world.

 

[connor_in]

I love how people on here are telling us with certainty what we will be able to get/do health insurance-wise under this. The reason I say this is because the politicians in DC are still figuring out things within the bill itself as well as many things were left to the discretion of HHS which is still in just the start up mode.

A rather curious bit has had me wonder how great this legislation really is too...if it is soooo fantastic, then why have tons of waivers been issued (mainly to D friendly contributors) to let them out of the great things this bill does.

May God have mercy on us all

 

[GoIrish41]

Therein lies the potential blame game. It would seem that health insurance is one of the most competitive industries out there as every company that I have been associated with has obtained competitive quotes on an annual basis in an effort to control costs. The only way that they could be "price gouging" is if you believe that they are all working in concert to artificially increase the premiums. Given how competitive the insurance market is, I find that highly unlikely that they would all "fall in line" and nobody price their rates more competitively in an effort to grab greater market share. The insurance companies used preexisting condition rules to try to keep their rates down so that they can remain competitive. The only hope that these changes don't increase the rates is if you have enough new participants (i.e. healthy individuals that didn't have insurance previously) to offset the increased costs of covering the preexisting conditions.

Insurance companies have been vilified already, and I can guarantee that if the rates do have to go up substantially, that the White House will cast the ENTIRE blame at their feet. Given the mathematical games that the White House used in an effort to say that these new rules won't increase the deficit, I know that I will look at those casting the blame with a very skeptical eye.

Insurance companies have arrangements with specific networks of doctors. They will only pay for claims that are submitted by those doctors. Those same doctors prescribe medicines that pharmaceutical companies give them perks to prescribe. Insurance companies will only cover certain medications because of the arrangements they have with the pharmaceutical companies. I've got news for you, the entire medical enterprise is a complete scam.

I have Crohn's Disease -- a pre-existing condition -- and I have to take an injection once a month to keep my symptons under control. I asked the pharmacy at one point how much that medicine costs per dose. I was shocked to hear that a single dose costs $7,650. However, my insurance company only pays $2,300 per dose. Why? Because the pharmaceutical companies have a deal with the insurance companies AND the doctors. If you don't have insurance you would have to pay more than 3 times what my insurance company pays. Now, do you think the pharmaceutical company who makes my medicine is loosing money when they only charge my insurance $2300? Of course not. This whole arrangement is the very definition of price gouging. It's the reason people can't afford health insurance and why prices are through the roof. I do indeed believe that the insurance companies get together to set prices artificially. I welcome a little government intervention and regulation. These comanies have gotten rich on ripping people off for what I consider a basic human need.

 

[95NDAlumNM]

Bend over and be sure to bring plenty of vaseline, because the prez, congress and federal courts are basically saying that you are going to need it!!!

Do you curently pay for insurance? Does your company currenly priovide insurance for you? Do you have a family that is covered under insurance? Have you had to use this insurance epecially for big procedures?

20,000 a year for a family of four, high deductibles and co pays, having 2 children in the last 4 years, having kidney stones disintegrated, etc. thousands in medical bills to pay off even with insurance. Believe me we are already getting screwed and it was only getting worse. We (my company) could not move to other insruance companies because of pre-existing conditions and lack of options. Maybe the Afforadable Care Act is not perfect but the way things were going was unsustainable. I can see tweeks beign made to this over the years but something had to be done and the Rebuplicans and tea party people had no interest in trying to fix this problem. The democrats put forward this plan to try and find a different way to handle this increasing problem. The repbulicans fought against this with everything they had even though it was a Rebuplican idea to begin with just becasue of who was president.

 

[theclassickiller]

Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long | Fox News

As much as I dislike Fox News, they would be the last to admit The Heritage Foundation was the source of the mandate given their parallel political leanings if there was any ability to claim otherwise. I've seen it reported elsewhere as well, a short google search of "Heritage Fundation individual healthcare mandate" will return plenty of other results running the political gamut.

There's a difference between bad ideas and socialism. Individual health care is clearly different that forcing me to pay for someone else because they can't afford it. It was a terrible idea, sure. But it wasn't socialist like Obamacare.

If someone works their tail off their whole life and makes enough money to get by, why should they pay for healthcare costs for some bum who uses his money for booze and cigarettes and turns down job offers because he doesn't want to work? Just because he isn't making any money means he can use someone else's money? Why should we reward laziness and terrible lifestyles?

If it really is taxation that is...

I don't get it. As if 40% of my paycheck doesn't already go to taxes.

I've had full health coverage that I pay for for 4 years now. Do you want to know how many times I've visited the hospital? Once. I was glad I paid for it all those years, and I was glad I could get in and out fast. Now that everyone will have it they will be abusing the hell out of it and we all know it. I can't wait for the next time I go in 4 years when I actually have a medical issue and I have to wait in line for 4 hours behind people who are abusing their insurance that I'm paying for. Google the waits at hospitals and emergency rooms in Canada. It's a scary, scary world when a patient has to wait several days to have an "emergency" surgery to save his life.

I can promise we are installing a program that will be a never-ending nightmare that we can't escape from.

I'm going to pick up smoking and extremely #reckless behavior I think. I might as well visit the hospital as much as I can. And if I die sooner, that's less time I have to be socialist!

 

[ab2cmiller]

Insurance companies have arrangements with specific networks of doctors. They will only pay for claims that are submitted by those doctors. Those same doctors prescribe medicines that pharmaceutical companies give them perks to prescribe. Insurance companies will only cover certain medications because of the arrangements they have with the pharmaceutical companies. I've got news for you, the entire medical enterprise is a complete scam.

I have Crohn's Disease -- a pre-existing condition -- and I have to take an injection once a month to keep my symptons under control. I asked the pharmacy at one point how much that medicine costs per dose. I was shocked to hear that a single dose costs $7,650. However, my insurance company only pays $2,300 per dose. Why? Because the pharmaceutical companies have a deal with the insurance companies AND the doctors. If you don't have insurance you would have to pay more than 3 times what my insurance company pays. Now, do you think the pharmaceutical company who makes my medicine is loosing money when they only charge my insurance $2300? Of course not. This whole arrangement is the very definition of price gouging. It's the reason people can't afford health insurance and why prices are through the roof. I do indeed believe that the insurance companies get together to set prices artificially. I welcome a little government intervention and regulation. These comanies have gotten rich on ripping people off for what I consider a basic human need.

If you believe that insurance companies are getting together and having price fixing agreements amongst themselves, there is nothing I can say that would change your mind.

Based upon your first hand experience, it would seem that the company doing the price gouging is not the insurance company, it's the pharmaceutical company.

 

[theclassickiller]

Do you curently pay for insurance? Does your company currenly priovide insurance for you? Do you have a family that is covered under insurance? Have you had to use this insurance epecially for big procedures?

20,000 a year for a family of four, high deductibles and co pays, having 2 children in the last 4 years, having kidney stones disintegrated, etc. thousands in medical bills to pay off even with insurance. Believe me we are already getting screwed and it was only getting worse. We (my company) could not move to other insruance companies because of pre-existing conditions and lack of options. Maybe the Afforadable Care Act is not perfect but the way things were going was unsustainable. I can see tweeks beign made to this over the years but something had to be done and the Rebuplicans and tea party people had no interest in trying to fix this problem. The democrats put forward this plan to try and find a different way to handle this increasing problem. The repbulicans fought against this with everything they had even though it was a Rebuplican idea to begin with just becasue of who was president.

Insurance rates for the decade before Obama signed the Affordable Health Care Act rose about 5% each year (some up to 8%). After the act, rates began to rise 16.5% each year. Do you honestly think this is just a coincidence?

Plus 20,000 is the average. Families in areas with higher standards of living and higher salaries pay more. Families in the midwest with lower salaries pay less. That's pretty irresponsible to just say everyone is paying $20,000.

Yes, I have a source: Average family health insurance policy: $13,375, up 5% - USATODAY.com

 

[ACamp1900]

Well, the door has been slammed open... I just can't wait for all the 'evil' and 'hilter' attacks coming from the left when a conservative gov. one day uses this 'tax' garbage as a means to force upon the whole of the American people a strictly right wing ideology...

I'm not saying I support anything, but I'll be expecting much more talk of succession coming from certain state legislatures...

 

[sfk324]

There's a difference between bad ideas and socialism. Individual health care is clearly different that forcing me to pay for someone else because they can't afford it. It was a terrible idea, sure. But it wasn't socialist like Obamacare.

If someone works their tail off their whole life and makes enough money to get by, why should they pay for healthcare costs for some bum who uses his money for booze and cigarettes and turns down job offers because he doesn't want to work? Just because he isn't making any money means he can use someone else's money? Why should we reward laziness and terrible lifestyles?

If it really is taxation that is...

I don't get it. As if 40% of my paycheck doesn't already go to taxes.

I've had full health coverage that I pay for for 4 years now. Do you want to know how many times I've visited the hospital? Once. I was glad I paid for it all those years, and I was glad I could get in and out fast. Now that everyone will have it they will be abusing the hell out of it and we all know it. I can't wait for the next time I go in 4 years when I actually have a medical issue and I have to wait in line for 4 hours behind people who are abusing their insurance that I'm paying for. Google the waits at hospitals and emergency rooms in Canada. It's a scary, scary world when a patient has to wait several days to have an "emergency" surgery to save his life.

I can promise we are installing a program that will be a never-ending nightmare that we can't escape from.

I'm going to pick up smoking and extremely #reckless behavior I think. I might as well visit the hospital as much as I can. And if I die sooner, that's less time I have to be socialist!

I don't know how that's a response to anything I wrote, but I'll respond to you with this:

You were already paying for people who didn't have insurance--it was priced into your premiums.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

5 reasons ObamaCare is already good for you | Fox News