Nov 28 | Stanford

[ulukinatme]

Are there any boats left?

Still mad. That was such an epic rally cry, I planned on using for the next 50 years, but now it will always be associated with a gut punch of a loss that still stings on certain days.

Goddamn I agree. It's still a great rally cry, though. The paint job with Jaylon and the torch was so special.

Little help with this please.

Clemson game I believe.

Reference to an early A Season With ... Vikings were so committed that they burned their boats when they raided foreign lands. Had a guy address the team using this metaphor.

GoIrish41 hit the nail on the head, but the slogan actually began during Georgia Tech week I believe. I distinctly recall the announcer throwing the slogan out before the game too. So, if it's any consolation for tko and Steelhead, the slogan was around well before Clemson.

Episode 2 recap: ‘A Season With Notre Dame Football’ – Episode two recap // The Observer

 

[Grahambo]

The good news is, like that illustrates this Stanford D can get manipulated or beat. With that said, we'll need to execute better in the RZ on Saturday than we have recently. I like the ability for big plays and hoping we'll be able to run in tight spaces. Kizer is capable of a big game against this quality of D but it's easy to be skeptical. Offense wins this game and the defense can't lose it.

I'm surprised this game is as one sided as the 'experts' have made it out to be. Let us not forget that their QB is still Kevin Hogan. Sell out to the run and make him try to beat you.

 

[ickythump1225]

This is the game I've been saving my righteous indignation for. A lot of ND fans have been outraged for weeks thinking about how we could get left out of the CFP, but I've been waiting for after this game for that. Lost in that discussion was the assumption that we're going to roll Stanford which is extremely difficult to do. None of those playoff scenarios mean anything if we don't beat Stanford. The season is on the line and this is our biggest game since Clemson. We have to prove that we are a playoff team.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This is demonstrably false. He hasn't been an All-American but he's been muuuuuch better than plenty of backs Alford coached for Kelly. They can win with Adams.

I would take it a step further :

I cannot believe anyone wouldn't be drooling over having a running back like Adams! Did you see the glint in Kelly's eyes when he has talked about Adams during the last three or four pressers?

WTF facts that contradict anyone critical of Josh Adams :

• His first touch in the season opener was a fourteen yard touchdown carry.
• He has three runs where his single cut (back) has faked his opponent who held reasonable position, 'out of his jock strap.' Which ain't bad for a big back.
• He has elite speed. Period. Exclamation point!
• He is one yard short of tying the all time rushing total of a true freshman at Notre Dame; and he has two 140+ games!
• He has the longest play from scrimmage in Notre Dame history.
• He has as violent of a stiff arm as this viewer has ever seen.
• He has a frame that can add twenty pounds, easily, without worry of slowing down.
• He can catch the ball.
• He can block, well. (Better than any freshman I have ever seen at ND.)

Then how did they get back to Scandinavia? I'm tempted to call bullshit on it, I might ask r/askhistorians.

The old answer was, "They didn't." History loses the fact that most voyages capitalized on taking advantage of favorable currents and prevailing winds. Therefore the return voyages took many times as long, and were less likely to happen anyway.

Next, as to Ireland, for example : conventional wisdom about the blond or red haired, apple dumpling cheeked, influence on the population of the eastern portion of Ireland particularly, arose from an influx of Viking blood from repeated invasions. Now it looks like the original inhabitants of Ireland (Iberian roots) brought back prisoners, and slaves from the area that developed Vikings later, introduced them to the local gene pool, and then introduced that genetic combination throughout the 'Tin Isles,' and other places much earlier. So the influence of the Vikings was subordinate to that of the Picts and Scotes, who influenced Northern Europe much earlier. In other words, the Vikings may have been given more credit. Not that they didn't do all that has been said, but just that it didn't happen as often as originally assumed.

ND Redzone execution : Totally dependent on --

• Quality of the defense we play against; we have not had any problem with a team rated below 25 in every defensive category;
• Dependent on coaches play calling. (those games with some dynamic nature to the play calling there has been no problem.)

 

[NDdomer2]

Cal's offense is ranked higher than ours. Plus, have you seen us execute in the red zone?

Having said that, I think we'll have a good shot to win.

Cals offense is ranked higher than ours no doubt, but looking over their schedule the majority of that offense has came against their inferior opponents.

In their wins they have scored minimum of 30, max of 70. In their losses, all in 20s.

They are definition of an average team beating everyone they should and losing to everyone that's been more talented.

As has been pointed out it's going to be dependent on red zone efficiency on O and finding ways to get off field on D.

But this ain't your Stanford D from last 5 years.

 

[Emcee77]

Then how did they get back to Scandinavia? I'm tempted to call bullshit on it, I might ask r/askhistorians.

Ha I agree. It's a great slogan, but I have never heard of Vikings burning boats. I've heard of it in the context of classical history and colonialism, but not in between.

According to this, the boat burning story also has an East/Southeast Asian and Islamo/Iberian resonance, but there's nothing about Vikings. I'd be curious to hear from an expert on the subject. Color me skeptical.

Not that it really matters. Germans bombing Pearl Harbor? "Forget it, he's rolling." It's in that category.

 

[STLcardz-NDirish]

After watching the Oregon Stanford game a couple weeks ago, I got the impression we can do some damage to their secondary. Their secondary looked very slow, and the 15-25 yard underneath & corner routes were open all day. If we play close to our potential there is no doubt in my mind we can win this game. But can we win convincing??

 

[Voltaire]

Ha I agree. It's a great slogan, but I have never heard of Vikings burning boats. I've heard of it in the context of classical history and colonialism, but not in between.

According to this, the boat burning story also has an East/Southeast Asian and Islamo/Iberian resonance, but there's nothing about Vikings. I'd be curious to hear from an expert on the subject. Color me skeptical.

Not that it really matters. Germans bombing Pearl Harbor? "Forget it, he's rolling." It's in that category.

One of the more famous historical examples of this motivational strategy occurred in Cortes' conquest of the Aztecs. Per the below from Wikipedia (although note the ships were sunk/scuttled as opposed to burned as was the legend, though the effect was obviously the same):

Those of his men still loyal to the Governor of Cuba conspired to seize a ship and escape to Cuba, but Cortés moved swiftly to squash their plans. Two ringleaders were condemned to be hanged; two were lashed, and one had his foot mutilated. To make sure such a mutiny did not happen again, he decided to scuttle his ships.[21]:128–130

There is a popular misconception that the ships were burned rather than sunk. This misconception has been attributed to the reference made by Cervantes de Salazar in 1546 as to Cortés burning his ships.[35] This may have also come from a mistranslation of the version of the story written in Latin.[36]

With all of his ships scuttled, Cortés effectively stranded the expedition in Mexico. However, it did not completely end the aspirations of those members of his company who remained loyal to the Governor of Cuba. Cortés then led his band inland towards the fabled Tenochtitlan.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

After watching the Oregon Stanford game a couple weeks ago, I got the impression we can do some damage to their secondary. Their secondary looked very slow, and the 15-25 yard underneath & corner routes were open all day. If we play close to our potential there is no doubt in my mind we can win this game. But can we win convincing??

Convincing Win? Depends how many tackles Joe S and Redfield miss. O/U 8

 

[NDdomer2]

I know a lot of people are worried about "style points", but not me.

If we go 11-1, with a top 10 win to cap the year, after all the injuries and the schedule we play that's playoff worthy.

I think I saw this morning that 8 of our opponents have top 50 defenses, can anyone else say that?

One of Iowa/MSU is in/out.

Can Baylor win with 3rd string QB?

Can OK hold off OkSU? They struggled with a banged up TCU. This game will be a shootout no doubt.

I'll take the ugly 1 point win for sure.

 

[STLcardz-NDirish]

Convincing Win? Depends how many tackles Joe S and Redfield miss. O/U 8

hah right. I'm going under, not by much.

O/U 74% Red Zone Scoring Percentage (TDs and FGs)?

 

[NDdomer2]

hah right. I'm going under, not by much.

O/U 74% Red Zone Scoring Percentage (TDs and FGs)?

I'll take over on rz scoring. Coaches are going to make sure we get fgs at min.

 

[Black Irish]

One of the more famous historical examples of this motivational strategy occurred in Cortes' conquest of the Aztecs. Per the below from Wikipedia (although note the ships were sunk/scuttled as opposed to burned as was the legend, though the effect was obviously the same):

Those of his men still loyal to the Governor of Cuba conspired to seize a ship and escape to Cuba, but Cortés moved swiftly to squash their plans. Two ringleaders were condemned to be hanged; two were lashed, and one had his foot mutilated. To make sure such a mutiny did not happen again, he decided to scuttle his ships.[21]:128–130

There is a popular misconception that the ships were burned rather than sunk. This misconception has been attributed to the reference made by Cervantes de Salazar in 1546 as to Cortés burning his ships.[35] This may have also come from a mistranslation of the version of the story written in Latin.[36]

With all of his ships scuttled, Cortés effectively stranded the expedition in Mexico. However, it did not completely end the aspirations of those members of his company who remained loyal to the Governor of Cuba. Cortés then led his band inland towards the fabled Tenochtitlan.

To quote Sean Connery from "The Hunt for Red October:"

"There will be no going back. When Cortez reached the New World, he burned his ships. As a result, his men were well motivated."

 

[Rocket89]

Cal's offense is ranked higher than ours. Plus, have you seen us execute in the red zone?

Having said that, I think we'll have a good shot to win.

S&P Offense Ranks

ND- 9th
Cal- 21st

FEI Offense Ranks

ND- 6th
Cal- 25th

But yeah, red zone offense will be important for us.

 

[Rocket89]

Then again. Shamrock colored glasses are worn by many. Adams is a huge step down if some don't want to admit. The game will rest on kizer and can he make plays. He has before, but that was with the threat of CJ. That threat isn't there. Adams will be a good back no doubt, but his lack of shiftyness will work against us against the stoubt Stanford d. If Kizer can throw and score we will win. They will take the run away imo.

I wouldn't say he's a huge step down from a very banged up Prosise, but lately Adams could be hitting a wall.

One run for 98-yards and 28 other carries for 2.8 YPC over his last 2 games. Kinda concerning.

 

[STLcardz-NDirish]

I wouldn't say he's a huge step down from a very banged up Prosise, but lately Adams could be hitting a wall.

One run for 98-yards and 28 other carries for 2.8 YPC over his last 2 games. Kinda concerning.

I'm not a fan of looking at that statistical measure in such a way. The 98 yard run was a real life thing, it happened, and was a result of adams being patient, staying inside, hitting the whole, and then finishing with a superb stiff arm. Every starting running back breaks a big one throughout the season, which is going to "skew" the ypc stat. That was his.

 

[DillonHall]

S&P Offense Ranks

ND- 9th
Cal- 21st

FEI Offense Ranks

ND- 6th
Cal- 25th

But yeah, red zone offense will be important for us.

I just went by yards and points per game. I have no idea what those letters stand for (nor do I care).

 

[Rocket89]

I'm not a fan of looking at that statistical measure in such a way. The 98 yard run was a real life thing, it happened, and was a result of adams being patient, staying inside, hitting the whole, and then finishing with a superb stiff arm. Every starting running back breaks a big one throughout the season, which is going to "skew" the ypc stat. That was his.

Over a 2-game sample size I would agree if Adams had ripped off a 3 or 4 longer runs to 'skew' his per carry stats. But just one run?

One snap doesn't mean we shouldn't question his rather low production over his last 6 quarters or so.

 

[NDdomer2]

I just went by yards and points per game. I have no idea what those letters stand for (nor do I care).

If you don't care about objective discussion why you here?

 

[Rocket89]

I just went by yards and points per game. I have no idea what those letters stand for (nor do I care).

Almost 2,000 posts on a team-specific college football message board and you don't know or care about S&P and FEI?

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2015 NCAA S&P+ RATINGS, OFFENSE
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2015 FEI COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS, OFFENSE

How does this happen in 2015? This is so crazy to me.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'm not a fan of looking at that statistical measure in such a way. The 98 yard run was a real life thing, it happened, and was a result of adams being patient, staying inside, hitting the whole, and then finishing with a superb stiff arm. Every starting running back breaks a big one throughout the season, which is going to "skew" the ypc stat. That was his.

Yeah, but his was a: so long and b: part of such a small sample size, that it is more of an outlier than big runs usually are.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I just went by yards and points per game. I have no idea what those letters stand for (nor do I care).

If you don't care about objective discussion why you here?

So you used yards and points? For a PAC-12 team? Where they play very little to no defense?

Why don't you just use uniform colors and team mascots to compute offensive prowess?

 

[STLcardz-NDirish]

Over a 2-game sample size I would agree if Adams had ripped off a 3 or 4 longer runs to 'skew' his per carry stats. But just one run?

One snap doesn't mean we shouldn't question his rather low production over his last 6 quarters or so.

I see where you're getting at. I agree, one snap shouldn't determine something. I guess what I'm saying is you can't just throw one snap out either.

 

[dang227]

Win or lose tomorrow I hope we at least come to play. With everything on the line I am interested to see how we start the game.

 

[gfviperman]

100% correct!!!

 

[NDinMich]

GoIrish41 hit the nail on the head, but the slogan actually began during Georgia Tech week I believe. I distinctly recall the announcer throwing the slogan out before the game too. So, if it's any consolation for tko and Steelhead, the slogan was around well before Clemson.

Episode 2 recap: ‘A Season With Notre Dame Football’ – Episode two recap // The Observer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GEL9N4giHQI#

 

[shalom]

I'm surprised this game is as one sided as the 'experts' have made it out to be. Let us not forget that their QB is still Kevin Hogan. Sell out to the run and make him try to beat you.

This is actually a very good thing. Stanford is more than a FG and less than a TD favorite, and I think those are pretty legit odds.

Logically though, sitting at #6, that means that how the metrics are calibrated, most reasonable ppl (including the Playoff Committee, whoever) expect ND to lose this game. If it wins this game, especially by a big margin, it will logically make a case that ND is better than advertised... there's an argument that will be made in the Committee in that case that ND deserves to get back into the top 4. It's week to week, so that #6 ranking was made without any consideration of where ND would be if it beat Stanford, since they only consider games to that point. The same reason why ND got jumped after teams "proved" to be better with good wins.

Personally I think the game is a coin flip. There's no way to know how ND's running game will step up, or how Stanford's secondary will either. Really don't know if ND's OL will win out or Stanford's D or vice versa. It could be Clemson all over again. Personally I find Kelly spotty in really big games and Shaw for his part is in no way an outstanding coach. But both guys are solid Xs and Os and motivators...
And even with a win, I think it's really a coin flip whether ND gets into the Playoffs subsequently... very legit arguments whether ND is last team in or first team out. Personally I hope ND gets in because I think OU is getting the benefit of that backloaded schedule... where all the Big 12 teams play no one and go into that conference grind all looking like juggernauts but in reality Baylor & co probably would have a loss or two outside the conference if they played more legit schedules

I actually admire Stanford's kids this year for slogging through that schedule after that bad early loss, although I could have done without them dropping that game to Oregon (in a similar type of scenario as ND's loss to Clemson). Looking forward to hopefully an entertaining matchup

 

[BGIF]

Yeah, but his was a: so long and b: part of such a small sample size, that it is more of an outlier than big runs usually are.

Yes, it's an outlier.

Nobody in and ND history ever achieved it before. Not Gipp, not The Four Horsemen, not 7 Heisman Winners, not The Bus, nor The Rocket. Nobody.

And in college football I believe only one other freshman has achieved it.

Yeah, outlier.

 

[irish4ever]

Win or lose tomorrow I hope we at least come to play. With everything on the line I am interested to see how we start the game.

Ditto! I can't stand to watch another regular season ending game like last year on the road against U$C. Ugh, that was freakin' painful and ugly to watch!

 

[dang227]

I also can't stand David Shaw's stupid fvcking face on the sideline. He really rubs me the wrong way.