Notre Dame to the B1G Conference?

[IrishLax]

i know it was reported somewhere here on IE, but anyone recall what the new NBC deal is bringing ND?

ESPN reporting all the SEC schools will be getting 51.3m each.

It’s supposedly around $50m + another $17m from the ACC.

 

[Hautian Domer]

Basically where I’m at. When the Big Ten was a regional conference of mostly boring schools it provided zero value to ND. That’s no longer the case.

The Big Ten will dip into the Southeast at some point, I bet and will look to take a couple of these schools (Clemson, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Miami, FSU). The Big Ten will then pretty much have its fingerprints in most parts of the country.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yes and it's not really a question. Outside of ND, what traditional blue blood is not affiliated with either the sec or big? If you want access going forward, they must join one or the other.

 

[Hautian Domer]

Yes and it's not really a question. Outside of ND, what traditional blue blood is not affiliated with either the sec or big? If you want access going forward, they must join one or the other.

I prefer remaining independent as long as possible, but what concerns me is that the Big Ten and SEC aren't taking on shit teams. With playoff expansions making it theoretically easier to get in the playoffs, why would a school in the Big Ten or SEC want or need to schedule us? They're already in challenging conferences with challenging teams, why risk an unnecessary loss? So, I'm afraid as to how that may adversely impact Notre Dame's scheduling, where we're left scheduling Service Academies, ACC and Big 12 schools.

 

[IrishLion]

The argument JS always made as primary for ND's independence was the scheduling independence... as LAX mentioned, that's not a huge deal with the B1G expanding to a coast-to-coast footprint.

Even if the B1G goes to regional pods, ND will have enough pull when they decide to make the move to demand that they play in Cali every year (maybe alternating UCLA and USC) whichever week they choose. Hopefully ND would be gearing up for a CCG appearance, and they won't need to make it the final week of the season for recruiting purposes like they do now.

It might mean dropping Stanford... but that's fine, especially if ND is going to insist on keeping Navy as one of their 3 OOC games every year.

 

[irishfan]

As long as the ACC remains viable for our other sports, I’d rather hold off until this next set of TV contracts is up (I believe ours, B1G, and SEC all run out around the same time). It would be a shame IMO to join the B1G for a couple years just to see a system where we revert to an Independent.

My guess as to what the eventual CFB breakaway looks like:

—40-60 schools
—pooled TV contracts like the NFL (not everyone will make the same $ though)
—whatever produces more $, either two mega conferences (regional/rivalry divisions in each conference) or every school is Independent with schedules pre-determined by commissioner (ability to have up to X amount of guaranteed, yearly rivalry games like what B1G is doing going forward).

 

[Hautian Domer]

The argument JS always made as primary for ND's independence was the scheduling independence... as LAX mentioned, that's not a huge deal with the B1G expanding to a coast-to-coast footprint.

Even if the B1G goes to regional pods, ND will have enough pull when they decide to make the move to demand that they play in Cali every year (maybe alternating UCLA and USC) whichever week they choose. Hopefully ND would be gearing up for a CCG appearance, and they won't need to make it the final week of the season for recruiting purposes like they do now.

It might mean dropping Stanford... but that's fine, especially if ND is going to insist on keeping Navy as one of their 3 OOC games every year.

Good riddance on Stanford. I always hated that game, and we really haven't played them that long in the grand scheme of things. That isn't a rivalry or some team we need to keep plugged in on the schedule, in my personal opinion.

Navy, well, as you all know, we kind of owe it to them...it is what it is.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The argument JS always made as primary for ND's independence was the scheduling independence... as LAX mentioned, that's not a huge deal with the B1G expanding to a coast-to-coast footprint.

Even if the B1G goes to regional pods, ND will have enough pull when they decide to make the move to demand that they play in Cali every year (maybe alternating UCLA and USC) whichever week they choose. Hopefully ND would be gearing up for a CCG appearance, and they won't need to make it the final week of the season for recruiting purposes like they do now.

It might mean dropping Stanford... but that's fine, especially if ND is going to insist on keeping Navy as one of their 3 OOC games every year.

Beginning in 1988, the only time ND hasn't played Stanford was 95, 96 and 2020.

We know Navy isn't going anywhere, but there is clearly something to playing Stanford for ND considering they've been on the schedule every year since 1997 and all but two since 1988.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I might be speaking out of turn, and I appreciate the desire to stir up conversation on these topics, but this board isn't set up like 247 where every question needs it's own thread.

We already have a threads for discussion on ND joining a conference, for general conference realignment talk, and for Joe Alt.

Perhaps we should start a thread about what deserves its own thread?

 

[Lberry]

I flip flop constantly on this topic. I think joining the B1G is inevitable, but I'll definitely be sad to see the last big domino fall on the old age of cfb.

What aspect of independence as it stands in 2024 will you miss most? Answer can't be "muh tradition!".

Rutgers is making more TV revenue. The Badgers are playing in Ireland. Michigan gets USC. OSU can get a 1st round playoff BYE. Whole conference has better refs than ACC.

Question open to all.

 

[IrishLion]

Beginning in 1988, the only time ND hasn't played Stanford was 95, 96 and 2020.

We know Navy isn't going anywhere, but there is clearly something to playing Stanford for ND considering they've been on the schedule every year since 1997 and all but two since 1988.

Like-minded academic institutions, and also the whole "end the year in Cali, every year" thing.

I just don't see keeping Stanford AND Navy as two of your three OOC games every year, particularly when you can just sub UCLA for Stanford in years you aren't playing USC.

Hypothetically joining the B1G, and hypothetically keeping Navy and Stanford on the schedule leaves you with ONE flexible slot outside of B1G play, and could also result in some weird seasons where you're traveling to California two different times.

It's a good bet that ND would keep Navy over Stanford at that point. And even if Stanford is a perennial cupcake now (or until they find another Harbaugh --> Shaw pipeline), opening up that slot for different cupcakes allows you to hit different parts of the country, or to bring an extra home game to South Bend.

 

[stlnd01]

If feasible, I 100% believe that. Outside of USC, there’s nothing special about those teams you’ve listed and ND can just schedule them as out-of-conference. The more important consideration is having a regular footprint in the region where the population is shifting, where football matters most, and where recruiting is most likely to produce results.

Can we?

These conferences are going to nine-game schedules, which only leaves them three open dates, probably at the start of the season as the Big Ten has for the most part always operated. Their conference schedules are also getting tougher, b/c the newcomers are all pretty good. Do they want to add another power to their schedule in the first few weeks? Also the new playoff will change the equation for out-of-conference scheduling in ways that are hard to predict yet. I'm sure big names will still want to play us but it's going to get more complicated.

As for recruiting, that has always been the argument for the ACC. But is there any evidence that playing all these mid teams from the Carolinas has actually helped our recruiting there? I note that this season, our two most-compelling, highest-rated games (and biggest recruiting weekends) were both against teams that will be in the Big Ten next year. And we've had a nice run with Clemson but we don't play them again for awhile now.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Like-minded academic institutions, and also the whole "end the year in Cali, every year" thing.

I just don't see keeping Stanford AND Navy as two of your three OOC games every year, particularly when you can just sub UCLA for Stanford in years you aren't playing USC.

Hypothetically joining the B1G, and hypothetically keeping Navy and Stanford on the schedule leaves you with ONE flexible slot outside of B1G play, and could also result in some weird seasons where you're traveling to California two different times.

It's a good bet that ND would keep Navy over Stanford at that point. And even if Stanford is a perennial cupcake now (or until they find another Harbaugh --> Shaw pipeline), opening up that slot for different cupcakes allows you to hit different parts of the country, or to bring an extra home game to South Bend.

It's surely the ending the season in California bit, because they have a like minded institution less than two hours away in Evanston, IL and that stopped being an annual affair after 1976. They've played Duke eight times, Vanderbilt three times. Feels like Stanford had their fun against ND during the Kelly Era and barring last year's pothole this series began to get a lot more one sided in ND's favor. That being said, Lou lost to Stanford in 1990 and 1992. I think with the "new era" of college football, Stanford is going to have some struggles and finding another Harbaugh/Shaw type run is going to be hard.

As a fan, the value of playing Navy drained for me years ago. It's really a no win situation in terms of the optics (ask Weis and Kelly), and if you're really that concerned about ND being a national brand, playing the service academies isn't exactly a badge of honor nationally. The road game typically happens in an NFL stadium or Ireland now anyway, if you're into traditional college football with games being played on campuses. Whatever debt ND owes Navy has been paid and then some as far as I'm concerned. Probably not the most popular thought for the traditionalists, but whatever.

They could drop both Navy and Stanford, and I'd be completely fine with that. The tradition I want them to recreate most is championships. It doesn't matter to me who they have to play and defeat in order to get there.

 

[MNIrishman]

I'd be concerned about conferences creating rules or taking issue with Catholic positions, with ND becoming the scapegoat. Giant secular institutions aren't really aligned either culturally or in terms of values. Giving them authority over ND for a 5% business unit sounds like the height of insanity to me.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I'd be concerned about conferences creating rules or taking issue with Catholic positions, with ND becoming the scapegoat. Giant secular institutions aren't really aligned either culturally or in terms of values. Giving them authority over ND for a 5% business unit sounds like the height of insanity to me.

They all care about money. Nobody cares dick about not eating meat on Friday.

 

[INLaw]

They all care about money. Nobody cares dick about not eating meat on Friday.

I mean in fairness there are a few other things then fishy fridays

 

[OhioIrish]

Can we?

These conferences are going to nine-game schedules, which only leaves them three open dates, probably at the start of the season as the Big Ten has for the most part always operated. Their conference schedules are also getting tougher, b/c the newcomers are all pretty good. Do they want to add another power to their schedule in the first few weeks? Also the new playoff will change the equation for out-of-conference scheduling in ways that are hard to predict yet. I'm sure big names will still want to play us but it's going to get more complicated.

As for recruiting, that has always been the argument for the ACC. But is there any evidence that playing all these mid teams from the Carolinas has actually helped our recruiting there? I note that this season, our two most-compelling, highest-rated games (and biggest recruiting weekends) were both against teams that will be in the Big Ten next year. And we've had a nice run with Clemson but we don't play them again for awhile now.

We can. There will always be interest from BIG in playing ND, especially if it means a loss doesn’t eliminate you from your conference championship.

For recruiting, its less about which games are most compelling — that changes year to year. It’s more about selling recruits on playing in a conference with an imprint in their home region. You want kids from Virgina, both Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida to know they will play games in front of their families and friends, and their families and friends want the same. We already have that throughout the Midwest, joining the BIG would likely isolate us to a degree. The best approach, imo, is to have deep roots throughout the South and Midwest.

 

[phork]

Just join the BIG and be done with it. When schools start getting cheques for $80-$100 milly whats it matter anymore. Tradition is dead. College football that we loved and cherished is dead. Cheaters get away with it.

Frankly the best idea is to have football make their own conferences and leave the non-revenue sports to stay in their traditional conferences to eliminate travel issues etc. Lets face it, unless you are invested in those sports no one really gives a crap.

The SECs dominance is waning and its accelerating with the NIL so winning in any conference and getting into the playoff is easier. Just wait until ND is #1 some season and is slotted in as the 5th playoff team despite being undefeated etc etc.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't think it makes much difference whether we join or stay independent. ND is always going to be a draw. Because of that, I imagine if ND were to join, there would be a provision for retaining the NBC contract.

 

[Lberry]

What aspect of independence as it stands in 2024 will you miss most? Answer can't be "muh tradition!".

Rutgers is making more TV revenue. The Badgers are playing in Ireland. Michigan gets USC. OSU can get a 1st round playoff BYE. Whole conference has better refs than ACC.

Question open to all.

Silence speaks.

 

[Black Irish]

I'd be concerned about conferences creating rules or taking issue with Catholic positions, with ND becoming the scapegoat. Giant secular institutions aren't really aligned either culturally or in terms of values. Giving them authority over ND for a 5% business unit sounds like the height of insanity to me.

Considering that anti-Catholic prejudice was a major reason why Notre Dame was locked out of the Big 10, this isn't an unfounded concern. (The OG reason to say "F Michigan").

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

There’s no point. I literally don’t understand the “joining a conference is inevitable“ crowd. Yeah, it sure seemed like that 10 years ago with the 2 team and 4 team playoffs. But not anymore. There’s now a 12 team playoff, which I guarantee you will be 16 in a handful of years from now. 11-1, maybe even 10-2 ND always gets in that.

SEC and BIG teams aren’t going to shun ND from scheduling. They just aren’t.

There will always be a TV network who will want to broadcast ND.

I mean, come on, there is literally zero reason to join a conference anymore. Why would you?

 

[INLaw]

There’s no point. I literally don’t understand the “joining a conference is inevitable“ crowd. Yeah, it sure seemed like that 10 years ago with the 2 team and 4 team playoffs. But not anymore. There’s now a 12 team playoff, which I guarantee you will be 16 in a handful of years from now. 11-1, maybe even 10-2 ND always gets in that.

SEC and BIG teams aren’t going to shun ND from scheduling. They just aren’t.

There will always be a TV network who will want to broadcast ND.

I mean, come on, there is literally zero reason to join a conference anymore. Why would you?

It really is as simple as that. There may be a time when ncaaf and Notre Dame are not synonymous but despite not winning a NY6 since I was prepubescent, that time isn’t now.

 

[Irishdawg]

It really is as simple as that. There may be a time when ncaaf and Notre Dame are not synonymous but despite not winning a NY6 since I was prepubescent, that time isn’t now.

Agree for the most part unless there’s a division break away from the NCAA with the SEC and Big10 with their own natty, it won’t change. But if they are not longer competing at the highest level because of their conference situation, the games won’t be valuable enough to justify the price tag of the TV deal.
There’s also all the movement with the cable/streaming industry which may slow down their revenue stream as those markets face a tougher climate.
Just my .02 cents

 

[irishandy]

ND needs to remain independent as long as they can. ND's brand will always be strong by name.

These super-conferences are going to blow up at some point. Do we really care to see USC vs. Purdue or Oregon vs. IU.

 

[Huntr]

These super-conferences are going to blow up at some point

The super conferences don't even exist, yet.

 

[Hautian Domer]

It's surely the ending the season in California bit, because they have a like minded institution less than two hours away in Evanston, IL and that stopped being an annual affair after 1976. They've played Duke eight times, Vanderbilt three times. Feels like Stanford had their fun against ND during the Kelly Era and barring last year's pothole this series began to get a lot more one sided in ND's favor. That being said, Lou lost to Stanford in 1990 and 1992. I think with the "new era" of college football, Stanford is going to have some struggles and finding another Harbaugh/Shaw type run is going to be hard.

As a fan, the value of playing Navy drained for me years ago. It's really a no win situation in terms of the optics (ask Weis and Kelly), and if you're really that concerned about ND being a national brand, playing the service academies isn't exactly a badge of honor nationally. The road game typically happens in an NFL stadium or Ireland now anyway, if you're into traditional college football with games being played on campuses. Whatever debt ND owes Navy has been paid and then some as far as I'm concerned. Probably not the most popular thought for the traditionalists, but whatever.

They could drop both Navy and Stanford, and I'd be completely fine with that. The tradition I want them to recreate most is championships. It doesn't matter to me who they have to play and defeat in order to get there.

Yes, there are plenty of “like minded institutions” to plug and play, both private (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Boston College) and public (Michigan, Virginia, Cal, UCLA, Texas) to name a few. I just don’t particularly care for the Stanford game. The “rivalry” feels forced. I’d rather play Purdue annually.

In regard to the Navy game, I don’t want it, but I’d rather Navy make the call or initiate the parting of ways.

 

[Hautian Domer]

ND needs to remain independent as long as they can. ND's brand will always be strong by name.

These super-conferences are going to blow up at some point. Do we really care to see USC vs. Purdue or Oregon vs. IU.

Say what you will, but the SEC expansion has much “sexier” matchups all across the board. And, there expansion makes geographical sense.

 

[Lberry]

Say what you will, but the SEC expansion has much “sexier” matchups all across the board. And, there expansion makes geographical sense.

I lean Big 10 but would absolutely get down with the SEC too. SEC states and audiences are growing more than any other regions too. Matchups would be a blast. Both better than independence in 2024.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

The Big Ten should've went after some southern schools.
It would've made them a true "national" conference.

SEC is still lumped up in the south east.
I think I'd rather join the Big Ten to keep our traditional rivalries alive, but would be more than fine if forced to join the SEC.

If we were to join the SEC I hope the administration realizes what kind of a commitment that would take to win.