Not Sure I Buy the Narratives

[ColinKSU]

Isn't this basically what Bill Rees (AKA Tommy's dad) does?

That was my impression, yes.

 

[NorthDakota]

I think the Irish can move the ball on Bama. The big question is whether they can have TD success in the red zone. Bama gets stingy once you’re inside their 20 and the Irish have struggled a bit cashing in on TDS when they get there. To me, that may be the defining factor for the Irish offense. If you come away with three instead of seven more times than not, I am afraid it could be a long afternoon for the Irish.

I am not confident we can move the ball unless the line plays much better than they did against Clemson.

 

[AKRowdy]

I am not confident we can move the ball unless the line plays much better than they did against Clemson.

I hope Zeke is healthy enough to play center. I’m just not totally sold on Lugg, idk what it is but he just doesn’t look good out there.

 

[JD Irish]

I hope Zeke is healthy enough to play center. I’m just not totally sold on Lugg, idk what it is but he just doesn’t look good out there.

He's definitely not a center. I still am hopeful that he could turn out to be a good starter at RT next year, but I agree, I really hope Correll is playing center for us this Friday.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I think Tommy's analysis is spot on. This isn't the Bama defense of old where even Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs would struggle. Those days are over for now. Our defense is good, but not extraordinary. We're vulnerable on the back end. If Book can have a good game, ND can definitely move the ball. Gonna have to convert most red zone opportunities into TD's though.

 

[irishtrooper]

I think Tommy's analysis is spot on. This isn't the Bama defense of old where even Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs would struggle. Those days are over for now. Our defense is good, but not extraordinary. We're vulnerable on the back end. If Book can have a good game, ND can definitely move the ball. Gonna have to convert most red zone opportunities into TD's though.

With respect, I’m not sure ANY defense is able to slow a top line offense down completely any more. The game has evolved too much away from ball control type games that they used to start their dynastic type run

 

[Bishop2b5]

With respect, I’m not sure ANY defense is able to slow a top line offense down completely any more. The game has evolved too much away from ball control type games that they used to start their dynastic type run

I totally agree. I hate that it's that way, but it is. I'm NOT a fan of the basketball on grass type offensive play that the game's evolved into. I'm old school and appreciate defense. It is what it is though, and if you want to be competitive today, you have to play that way. I'd LOVE to see some rule changes to dial this back and give us a more balanced game again.

 

[irishtrooper]

I totally agree. I hate that it's that way, but it is. I'm NOT a fan of the basketball on grass type offensive play that the game's evolved into. I'm old school and appreciate defense. It is what it is though, and if you want to be competitive today, you have to play that way. I'd LOVE to see some rule changes to dial this back and give us a more balanced game again.

I would as well. Although I was a big fan of “Whitey-ball” in the 80s with the St Louis Cardinals. They didn’t score much, but pitched well and played great defense. They stole bases, used sacrifice bunts, made productive outs and won games 3-2, 4-3 and 2-1. I’m old school that way. I think it’s more balanced entertaining that way. I didn’t like the steroid era where guys were mashing 50+ homers all over the league and games were 11-6 and 12-5.

Having football scores go 40something to 30something used to be a rare treat that was enjoyable. Now it’s the expectation a lot of the time. I get that is the way it is, and every good team has trended that way. I just don’t like it as much

 

[Irishize]

Isn't this basically what Bill Rees (AKA Tommy's dad) does?

Good point. I would assume that falls under his purview.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I am not confident we can move the ball unless the line plays much better than they did against Clemson.

I think that was CBK’s main talking point yesterday at his presser. If the Irish can be somewhat effective at running the ball the game becomes much closer than people may think.

 

[Irish#1]

With respect, I’m not sure ANY defense is able to slow a top line offense down completely any more. The game has evolved too much away from ball control type games that they used to start their dynastic type run

And there's nothing more beautiful and exciting than seeing a RB bust through that line and take it the distance. RTDB!

 

[Irishize]

I think that was CBK’s main talking point yesterday at his presser. If the Irish can be somewhat effective at running the ball the game becomes much closer than people may think.

If you think losing Landon Dickerson hurts Bama’s OL, imagine what losing the starting center & the back up center means to ND’s OL. They’ve been average since they lost Patterson. I fully expect Lugg (the 3rd string center) to be the starter this Friday.

 

[philipm31]

You should probably do some research before making such claims. Bama isn't Harvard, nor even ND or Vandy or Stanford, but our graduation rates and academic success scores are well above the national average for FBS programs. During the Saban era, we're 2nd behind ND (by only 1 or 2 players) in producing academic All-Americans. We've produced the scholar-athlete of the year not only for football, but the scholar athlete of the year for ALL NCAA sports.

ND has a lot to be proud of when it comes to having high academic standards for your athletes. The narrative that you're the only program who cares about your players going to class or getting an education is a joke though. It's a sanctimonious, snobby, elitist, and erroneous attitude that is the source of a LOT of the anti-ND sentiment from other fanbases.

There is literally not a person in here who has said that ND is the only program that cares about graduating their students, dude.

None.

But if you are really going to try and compare the Irish to Alabama over the last 40 years, from when I assume you were in college, until now, there is NO comparison, because ND has consistently graduated 90% or higher of their athletes. Sure it is a lot better at Alabama NOW, but you cannot tell me it was even close to where it is now when Saban arrived.

ND was near the same level then as it is now, because that is the way that it has always been. Hell it is better now than it was when ND was competing for titles under Lou. And even then, it was about the same.

''Notre Dame has claimed the 2020 national championship for graduating student-athletes in all sports–in the process posting the top NCAA Graduation Success Rate (GSR) figure (98) for the 14th-straight year.'' https://my.nd.edu/news/23770

Note that is for ALLLLLLLLLLL the ND athletes, not just football.

https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/edu/152080/university-of-notre-dame/graduation/

Regarding the entire university:

''At University of Notre Dame, the graduation rate is 96 % within 150% normal time, the retention rate is 98 %, as of August 31, 2020. The graduation rate at University of Notre Dame is around the average rate when comparing similar colleges (91.76% in average - Private (not-for-profit) Research University (very high research activity)).''

 

[IrishLax]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OU Showing why they’re a bunch no one wanted to play right now (even though <a href="https://twitter.com/GatorsFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GatorsFB</a> are woefully short handed)... IF ONLY.. <a href="https://twitter.com/OU_Football?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@OU_Football</a> hadn’t blown 14 point 4th Q lead vs K-State, they’d probably be a playoff team at 9-1. Strong case for being one of the four best.</p>— Chris Fowler (@cbfowler) <a href="https://twitter.com/cbfowler/status/1344497960466456577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the shit that kills me. Oklahoma loses to two terrible teams, then squeaks by Iowa State in their conference championship game. They then get to play a BAD Florida team, and the narrative is "Oklahoma is soooooo good! Nobody wants to play them!" Which is so insane and so anti-factual, but it's what happens when you get big wins on big stages.

I can't remember the last time ND got a matchup with a BAD team in a major bowl game. Certainly hasn't happened this century.

Consider the teams in this year... ND could be playing the likes of Texas A&M, UNC, Iowa State, Oregon, Cincinnati. Literally the only team that ND is not squarely better than is Georgia and maybe Oklahoma.

 

[T Town Tommy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OU Showing why they’re a bunch no one wanted to play right now (even though <a href="https://twitter.com/GatorsFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GatorsFB</a> are woefully short handed)... IF ONLY.. <a href="https://twitter.com/OU_Football?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@OU_Football</a> hadn’t blown 14 point 4th Q lead vs K-State, they’d probably be a playoff team at 9-1. Strong case for being one of the four best.</p>— Chris Fowler (@cbfowler) <a href="https://twitter.com/cbfowler/status/1344497960466456577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the shit that kills me. Oklahoma loses to two terrible teams, then squeaks by Iowa State in their conference championship game. They then get to play a BAD Florida team, and the narrative is "Oklahoma is soooooo good! Nobody wants to play them!" Which is so insane and so anti-factual, but it's what happens when you get big wins on big stages.

I can't remember the last time ND got a matchup with a BAD team in a major bowl game. Certainly hasn't happened this century.

Consider the teams in this year... ND could be playing the likes of Texas A&M, UNC, Iowa State, Oregon, Cincinnati. Literally the only team that ND is not squarely better than is Georgia and maybe Oklahoma.

The only thing Fowler should have taken away from the game last night is the fact that CFB has major problems and anything short of playoff expansion probably won’t fix it. And that may not be enough to fix it.

 

[NDBoiler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OU Showing why they’re a bunch no one wanted to play right now (even though <a href="https://twitter.com/GatorsFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GatorsFB</a> are woefully short handed)... IF ONLY.. <a href="https://twitter.com/OU_Football?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@OU_Football</a> hadn’t blown 14 point 4th Q lead vs K-State, they’d probably be a playoff team at 9-1. Strong case for being one of the four best.</p>— Chris Fowler (@cbfowler) <a href="https://twitter.com/cbfowler/status/1344497960466456577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the shit that kills me. Oklahoma loses to two terrible teams, then squeaks by Iowa State in their conference championship game. They then get to play a BAD Florida team, and the narrative is "Oklahoma is soooooo good! Nobody wants to play them!" Which is so insane and so anti-factual, but it's what happens when you get big wins on big stages.

I can't remember the last time ND got a matchup with a BAD team in a major bowl game. Certainly hasn't happened this century.

Consider the teams in this year... ND could be playing the likes of Texas A&M, UNC, Iowa State, Oregon, Cincinnati. Literally the only team that ND is not squarely better than is Georgia and maybe Oklahoma.

That’s so hilarious. Florida is literally missing almost half their starters, and yet he thinks this is some kind of evidence for OU? That’s JV level “reporting” at best, hopefully someone helps him get a clue.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Note, gentlemen, that he got your "clicks."
Considering what these people are, I have no idea why "we" pay any attention to them. ... and I'm sure the bowl committee doesn't.

 

[IrishLax]

The only thing Fowler should have taken away from the game last night is the fact that CFB has major problems and anything short of playoff expansion probably won’t fix it. And that may not be enough to fix it.

Yup, we're at the point now where playoffs need to be minimum 8 teams just to keep conference championships meaningful throughout the P5 and also keep the "major bowls" relevant.

 

[tussin]

Yup, we're at the point now where playoffs need to be minimum 8 teams just to keep conference championships meaningful throughout the P5 and also keep the "major bowls" relevant.

Wouldn’t increasing to 8 teams do exactly the opposite? Conference championships are completely irrelevant in many cases as both teams will get in regardless of outcome. Major bowls lost all traditional tie-ins and we would likely see many instances of powerhouse blue-bloods blowing out some shitty G5 school in the Rose Bowl.

 

[Old Man Mike]

This is probably BS that my mind is making up, but I wonder if the restrictive FOUR team playoff doesn't affect the way we think about the "little guys" rankings all year long. No one comes out and says it, but maybe it's in the back of our minds that we don't REALLY want to put a little guy up there ahead of the monsters, if the championship is at stake. In other words, do I feel comfortable putting "Cincinnati" way up there ahead of "Oklahoma" or "Georgia" etc halfway into the season and wedge their position in if they don't stumble? Do I want to have to leapfrog them at the eleventh hour?

Maybe, full out BSing again, if we thought there were EIGHT spots and a starry little guy would certainly get one, perhaps I'd give them more props early.

 

[philipm31]

The thing that bothers me in this entire thing is that FLA lost to TWO garbage fire teams and get this narrative. Yet, ND has not ever been given this leeway....because frankly they never ever play a garbage team in the bowl system. When was the last time that ND played a truly awful team in a major bowl again? EXACTLY.

 

[philipm31]

Wouldn’t increasing to 8 teams do exactly the opposite? Conference championships are completely irrelevant in many cases as both teams will get in regardless of outcome. Major bowls lost all traditional tie-ins and we would likely see many instances of powerhouse blue-bloods blowing out some shitty G5 school in the Rose Bowl.

Well that is wayyyyyyy better than a 12-0 G5 team playing a lower tier bowl game just because of conference tie-ins, so they play a crap SEC team or some weak P5 team, for "notoriety."

 

[Rogue219]

There are 127 FBS teams other than Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State. The majority of those are going to lose to those three.

Notre Dame has the benefit of a national narrative where haters, neutrals and those within the ND fanbase itself get to benefit from losses like these last two.

 

[BabyIrish]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nca...TNQUK5u5TlpdlIz-zYpOLblko4B-YlhhUHX6P0XaWaaT4

 

[ThePiombino]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nca...TNQUK5u5TlpdlIz-zYpOLblko4B-YlhhUHX6P0XaWaaT4

Encouraging article.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[philipm31]

So true. Not a single team outside of OSU or Clemson had a shot vs Alabama, which is probably fielding the best offense in CFB history...on top of an NFL-caliber defense.

This article should be required reading for everyone on this board who claims that ND is no longer competitive, or even good.

Which, apparently, was a shockingly high number.

 

[phork]

So true. Not a single team outside of OSU or Clemson had a shot vs Alabama, which is probably fielding the best offense in CFB history...on top of an NFL-caliber defense.

This article should be required reading for everyone on this board who claims that ND is no longer competitive, or even good.

Which, apparently, was a shockingly high number.

I don't think anyone's saying ND isn't competitive or good. ND isn't Bama Clemson or OSU.
And I would disagree that Bamas defence is NFL calibre. They have trouble with good passing teams.

 

[philipm31]

I don't think anyone's saying ND isn't competitive or good. ND isn't Bama Clemson or OSU.
And I would disagree that Bamas defence is NFL calibre. They have trouble with good passing teams.

I did not say it was an elite NFL defense, but it is certainly NFL caliber. Just ask the Jets.

Plus most teams are not going to be putting up 40+ points on them unless they are down by 14 early....like FL did and they still gave up 55.

Are they the 2000 Ravens or the 78 Steel Curtain no? Or even the 84 Niners on defense? No.

Are they at worst, a middling NFL defense, yes.


And yes, there were a TON of ppl saying that ND is not good, at all, and would never ever be good again...just like after any Irish loss.

I would like them to tell me that last ND coach to win 10+ games for 4 years in a row not named Brian Kelly.

Only in a dystopian world is an 83% winning percentage considered a failure. But that is what literally half the posters were saying immediately during and after the game. It is disheartening.

 

[NDRock]

I did not say it was an elite NFL defense, but it is certainly NFL caliber. Just ask the Jets.

Plus most teams are not going to be putting up 40+ points on them unless they are down by 14 early....like FL did and they still gave up 55.

Are they the 2000 Ravens or the 78 Steel Curtain no? Or even the 84 Niners on defense? No.

Are they at worst, a middling NFL defense, yes.

That’s crazy. Not even close to an NFL defense.

 

[philipm31]

That’s crazy. Not even close to an NFL defense.

That is such a horrible take.

I never said they were a great NFL defense but if you think for a second that the Bama defense is not littered with NFL caliber defenders, you are mistaken.

Are they all first rounders? No. But that team is definitely fielding NFL talent on both sides of the football.

They may have to go beyond the first string, but that team has defensive studs we do not even know of yet. And they got LOADS of playing time bc Bama blew out everyone all season long.