[NFL] vBook: Pittsburgh at Cincinnati

[kmoose]

Haha I rest my case. You can't bring yourself to admit that Tomlin doesn't have control of his sidelines.

I can bring myself to admit that we are playing next week, and Cincy isn't. Just like every other January.

 

[pkt77242]

You know whats not hard for me to understand? That I will be watching my team play another playoff game this year, while Cincinnati fans cry yet again.

At least you finally admit the truth, that all you care about is winning.


For the record, I don't like the Steelers, Ravens or Bengals because I think that all 3 play dirty.

 

[IrishLion]

I can bring myself to admit that we are playing next week, and Cincy isn't. Just like every other January.

Haha are you trying to get under my skin now that I've made you realize your error in understanding the concept "out of control"?

Bravo. I've never seen someone admit how they were wrong in such a graceless fashion lol.

 

[IrishLion]

Also, I found a video of Shazier and someone else dancing while Gio was unconcious, but I'm guessing you would just deflect that somehow as well lol.

 

[kmoose]

Haha are you trying to get under my skin now that I've made you realize your error in understanding the concept "out of control"?

Bravo. I've never seen someone admit how they were wrong in such a graceless fashion lol.

No. The point is that out of control organizations lack the stability to be successful, year in and year out............ see The Bengals.

Teams that are successful year in and year out have, amongst other things, control of the sidelines.......... see the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Munchak reacted, and it was over. Even if you insist that Shazier's hit was intentional; it would be his only incident. Those factors indicate control: Perhaps a momentary overreaction, but then immediately getting a handle on it. Cincinnati's behaviors were just the opposite.

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow, <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL">@NFL</a> really cracking down on the targeting are we? <a href="https://t.co/Vi3oP7MxpP">pic.twitter.com/Vi3oP7MxpP</a></p>— D (@DrewBrennen) <a href="https://twitter.com/DrewBrennen/status/686030199994056706">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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"Trying to hit him with a shoulder but he turned outside instead" LMAO. That's targeting with the crown 101.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A lot going on here but Antwon Blake and Ryan Shazier dancing while Gio Bernard is still down on the field.... <a href="https://t.co/yJ7VF3gFn3">https://t.co/yJ7VF3gFn3</a></p>— TK (@TK_Sports_) <a href="https://twitter.com/TK_Sports_/status/686031467634405377">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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"Let me dance about knocking this dude unconscious with the crown of my helmet."

 

[IrishHokie22]

Haha are you trying to get under my skin now that I've made you realize your error in understanding the concept "out of control"?

Bravo. I've never seen someone admit how they were wrong in such a graceless fashion lol.

You obviously haven't had many conversations with Moose.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow, <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL">@NFL</a> really cracking down on the targeting are we? <a href="https://t.co/Vi3oP7MxpP">pic.twitter.com/Vi3oP7MxpP</a></p>— D (@DrewBrennen) <a href="https://twitter.com/DrewBrennen/status/686030199994056706">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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"Trying to hit him with a shoulder but he turned outside instead" LMAO. That's targeting with the crown 101.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A lot going on here but Antwon Blake and Ryan Shazier dancing while Gio Bernard is still down on the field.... <a href="https://t.co/yJ7VF3gFn3">https://t.co/yJ7VF3gFn3</a></p>— TK (@TK_Sports_) <a href="https://twitter.com/TK_Sports_/status/686031467634405377">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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"Let me dance about knocking this dude unconscious with the crown of my helmet."

Great citizen OSU produces.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kmoose]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow, <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL">@NFL</a> really cracking down on the targeting are we? <a href="https://t.co/Vi3oP7MxpP">pic.twitter.com/Vi3oP7MxpP</a></p>— D (@DrewBrennen) <a href="https://twitter.com/DrewBrennen/status/686030199994056706">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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"Trying to hit him with a shoulder but he turned outside instead" LMAO. That's targeting with the crown 101.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A lot going on here but Antwon Blake and Ryan Shazier dancing while Gio Bernard is still down on the field.... <a href="https://t.co/yJ7VF3gFn3">https://t.co/yJ7VF3gFn3</a></p>— TK (@TK_Sports_) <a href="https://twitter.com/TK_Sports_/status/686031467634405377">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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"Let me dance about knocking this dude unconscious with the crown of my helmet."

I'm pretty sure his 3 second "dance" was about creating a turnover, not injuring a guy. But you believe whatever you want. It won't change the fact that Pittsburgh has won yet another playoff game, while Cincinatti hasn't won one since before Pete Rose was banned from baseball, or Operation Desert Storm. In fact, the last time the Bengals won a playoff game, Jerome Bettis was a freshman at Notre Dame. So cry your tears, Bengals fans. You've earned them. I both pity and admire you. Pity you for the decades of frustration and failure. And admire you, for staying loyal through the same.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm pretty sure his 3 second "dance" was about creating a turnover, not injuring a guy. But you believe whatever you want. It won't change the fact that Pittsburgh has won yet another playoff game, while Cincinatti hasn't won one since before Pete Rose was banned from baseball, or Operation Desert Storm. In fact, the last time the Bengals won a playoff game, Jerome Bettis was a freshman at Notre Dame. So cry your tears, Bengals fans. You've earned them. I both pity and admire you. Pity you for the decades of frustration and failure. And admire you, for staying loyal through the same.

You keep going back to the "but we won!" thing as if it makes the evidence I've posted meaningless.

I can see now that you really don't handle being wrong well.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm pretty sure his 3 second "dance" was about creating a turnover, not injuring a guy. But you believe whatever you want. It won't change the fact that Pittsburgh has won yet another playoff game, while Cincinatti hasn't won one since before Pete Rose was banned from baseball, or Operation Desert Storm. In fact, the last time the Bengals won a playoff game, Jerome Bettis was a freshman at Notre Dame. So cry your tears, Bengals fans. You've earned them. I both pity and admire you. Pity you for the decades of frustration and failure. And admire you, for staying loyal through the same.

You're simply lying to yourself if you think that they don't know that Gio is still on the ground. Their staff is over him and they are surrounded by staff themselves. Are you saying that you think they didn't notice that both coaching staffs are on the field and that Cinci's staff is surrounding the player one of them just knocked unconscious 10 yards away?

It was classless and you doing exactly what you hate about other fanbases. Congrats on your win, apparently that's all that matters in your book.

Btw, I'm a Bears fan, so I have no dog in this fight. As Koon would say, "just calling it like I see it...".

 

[arrowryan]

Steelers-Bengals has been becoming a great rivalry that last few years so a dirty game like this was expected. Refs and coaches were standing at the 50 yard line during pre game to prevent what happened during the pre game in the last matchup so the league knew it was coming.

Was the Shazier hit dirty? Yes. Is it easy for people to believe that Shazier was cheering that he knocked out Gio Bernard? Sure, but I think he was celebrating the turnover.

I'm going to argue the dirty hits because they happened from both teams and, as I said before, they are almost guaranteed to happen in a rivalry of this caliber. The only thing that pisses me off to no end is that Burfict does this shit every week. He clearly tried to injure Cam Newton and Greg Olson in the game against Carolina. He tried to take Ben out in their second match up and took Brown out yesterday on a hit that was just as bad but probably worse than the Shazier hit.

 

[kmoose]

You're simply lying to yourself if you think that they don't know that Gio is still on the ground. Their staff is over him and they are surrounded by staff themselves. Are you saying that you think they didn't notice that both coaching staffs are on the field and that Cinci's staff is surrounding the player one of them just knocked unconscious 10 yards away?

I never said that they were unaware of Bernard being injured. I said that their "celebration" was almost certainly related to the turnover, not the injury. That might not have been in good taste, but you can hardly fault a guy for being excited about an opponent turning over the ball inside your own Red Zone, with 3:00 and some change left on the clock. At the time, I think many people thought that was "game over". Tasteless, perhaps............ but not "out of control".

Congrats on your win, apparently that's all that matters in your book.

One of the reasons that I am a Steelers fan is because the franchise is universally respected, in the NFL, for being a well run franchise. They are not perfect by any means, but they do it better than most. So, no, wins are not ALL that matters. But if Cincy had won the game, then people would not be talking any Steelers being "out of control". And that's all I have really said in this thread............ the actions of the Steelers are not comparable to the actions of the Bengals, in regards to being "out of control".

Btw, I'm a Bears fan, so I have no dog in this fight. As Koon would say, "just calling it like I see it...".

Quoting koon?

Who are you, and what have you done with wooly?

 

[IrishLax]

SIAP: Key calls that swayed Bengals-Steelers playoff game | NBC SportsWorld

The above is a good read, and a very fair critique of what ultimately was -- IMO -- the worst job of game control I've ever seen done by officials in the NFL.

 

[kmoose]

SIAP: Key calls that swayed Bengals-Steelers playoff game | NBC SportsWorld

The above is a good read, and a very fair critique of what ultimately was -- IMO -- the worst job of game control I've ever seen done by officials in the NFL.

The thing no one is talking about........... there's NO DOUBT about the 15 yard penalty on Burfict. He was head hunting, and he didn't even try to disguise it. So even without the Adam Jones penalty, Pittsburgh still gets to try a 50 yard Field Goal for the win. That's no gimme by any stretch, but Boswell has made both of his attempts from 50+ this season, and was 9/12 from 40-49. So there's a better than average chance that the Steelers win, regardless of the call against Jones. I think they should have tossed someone, to get everyone's attention. As much as I don't think it was intentional, tossing Shazier probably changes the whole complexion of the end of the game.

 

[arrowryan]

At least six fans arrested for assault at Steelers-Bengals game

 

[IrishLion]

At least six fans arrested for assault at Steelers-Bengals game

Yeah the atmosphere was insane. I wouldn't take my kids to a primetime playoff game against the Steelers in Cincinnati. Morons everywhere. We actually drove some Bengals fans out of our section because they were trying to fight Pittsburgh fans over waving their terrible towels.

I felt like throwing shit on the field after the Shazier no-call, especially since Shawn Williams had been flagged for a clean hit shortly before that. But I never actually WOULD. It was awful.

 

[IrishLax]

The thing no one is talking about........... there's NO DOUBT about the 15 yard penalty on Burfict. He was head hunting, and he didn't even try to disguise it. So even without the Adam Jones penalty, Pittsburgh still gets to try a 50 yard Field Goal for the win. That's no gimme by any stretch, but Boswell has made both of his attempts from 50+ this season, and was 9/12 from 40-49. So there's a better than average chance that the Steelers win, regardless of the call against Jones. I think they should have tossed someone, to get everyone's attention. As much as I don't think it was intentional, tossing Shazier probably changes the whole complexion of the end of the game.

I'd argue that in those conditions, that's a less than 50% kick. Generally speaking, for your average NFL kicker in normal conditions is roughly 60%. The extra 15 yards makes it a roughly 90% opportunity... so it takes Pitt's win probability from a coin flip to almost a sure thing. So, IMO, that's a pretty big deal.

To the second bolded, I completely agree. I blame the refs more than I blame either team, honestly.

 

[arrowryan]

Yeah the atmosphere was insane. I wouldn't take my kids to a primetime playoff game against the Steelers in Cincinnati. Morons everywhere. We actually drove some Bengals fans out of our section because they were trying to fight Pittsburgh fans over waving their terrible towels.

I felt like throwing shit on the field after the Shazier no-call, especially since Shawn Williams had been flagged for a clean hit shortly before that. But I never actually WOULD. It was awful.

I read that someone in the stands yelled "I hope he's dead" after Burfict knocked out Brown. That is pretty pathetic and that guy needs to reevaluate what is important in life. Its just a game bro.

You might think I only say that because he was a Bengals fan but I'd feel the same way if a Steelers fan said that if a Steelers player did that to AJ Green

 

[IrishLion]

I read that someone in the stands yelled "I hope he's dead" after Burfict knocked out Brown. That is pretty pathetic and that guy needs to reevaluate what is important in life. Its just a game bro.

You might think I only say that because he was a Bengals fan but I'd feel the same way if a Steelers fan said that if a Steelers player did that to AJ Green

Oh no I'm with you. Bengals fans are terrible. It wouldn't surprise me if someone yelled something ridiculous like that.

As much as I don't like Roethlisberger and his questionable personal history, I don't support a beer can being thrown at him while he was on the cart, either. 40 morons out of 70,000 make us all look bad.

 

[kmoose]

I'd argue that in those conditions, that's a less than 50% kick. Generally speaking, for your average NFL kicker in normal conditions is roughly 60%. The extra 15 yards makes it a roughly 90% opportunity... so it takes Pitt's win probability from a coin flip to almost a sure thing. So, IMO, that's a pretty big deal.

To the second bolded, I completely agree. I blame the refs more than I blame either team, honestly.

Well, I didn't say it wasn't a big deal. I was merely pointing out that there is a likelihood that the Bengals lose, even without the second Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty. To hear Bengals fans tell it, it was either the penalty is called and Pittsburgh wins, or the penalty is not called and Cincy wins.

Edit: The numbers do not bear out your prediction of less than 50%. According to this link, and my admittedly possibly faulty math; NFL kickers were successful on 75 out of 101 attempts from 50+ yards, this season.


NFL Stats: by Player Category

I didn't triple check my math, but I'm confident that I am not off by over 25.

Second Edit: *growl* the default came up to the 2008 season, not 2015. Let me check the numbers for 2015.

In 2015, NFL kickers made 148 of 274 attempts from 50+, for a 54% success rate. So Pittsburgh still would have had a better than average chance of winning the game, even if Porter had been flagged.

 

[phgreek]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He pulled the man's hair! <a href="https://t.co/TEGC2SJP9K">pic.twitter.com/TEGC2SJP9K</a></p>— Deadspin (@Deadspin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/686003101942284289">January 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Nelson is moving past Munchak... Munchak maintains his hold on Nelson's hair and yanks. Pretty clear, I think.

...he did...He pulled his hair. I think it would have looked exactly the same if Bernard didn't have hair down to his ass though. Meaning Munchak grabbed at him with ill will, and he got gill netted in that shit and just went with it. Had Bernard had short hair Munchak would have grabbed something...and yanked...likely an arm. I'd fine him.

as for the Shazier hit...you'd have to be drunk to think the circumstances were anything like Burfict - Brown. Shazier hit a BALL CARRIER that turned up field, not some dude who laid out for a pass and was basically hanging there helpless in the air. Burfict's hit is the hit the rule is about. Shazier should have gotten a flag...and no I don't like it when people dance over a wounded guy...I love guys that bring the wood, and then go see if the guy they hit is ok.

Now I can't get out of this thread without hitting the hair issue...When I played, I tried to be clean, but it takes a special douchebag to play football with hair like that...and then make it everyone else's problem to avoid yanking that shit. I'll admit to a couple yanks in my day...we still laugh about it when the good ole days come up. NFL needs to get the shit fixed...yea ok some hair under the hlemet to shulder length...but this human squid shit is ridiculous.

 

[NDohio]

I have to agree with moose on one point. Joey Porter was not out of control. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew how volatile the Bengals were - notice in the replays that he was closest to Burfict while doing his taunting. The fact that Jones was close was just a bonus. Joey Porter was not out of control, he was just being a complete douche. And it worked.

 

[kmoose]

I have to agree with moose on one point. Joey Porter was not out of control. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew how volatile the Bengals were - notice in the replays that he was closest to Burfict while doing his taunting. The fact that Jones was close was just a bonus. Joey Porter was not out of control, he was just being a complete douche. And it worked.

Let's not forget, also, that Adam Jones was not flagged for confronting Porter. He was flagged for making contact with an official when he tried to push through the official to get in Porter's face. You CANNOT push an official. My 8 year old niece knows that.

 

[kmoose]

I saw this video this morning and thought it was pertinent. What's interesting is that, in the sports media's rush to get everyone on both sides indignant, the video of Gilberry so blatantly pushing Porter into the Cincinnati huddle (a fact that the media had NO problem focusing on) seems to have been conveniently overlooked.

I'm not trying to reignite the debate. I just thought that, since this is new footage to me, it is probably footage that most of you have not seen, either.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wysECduSPfk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishLion]

I see a Pittsburgh trainer and Joey Porter reacting to Burfict in a hostile fashion that wasn't needed, and then Gilberry coming in (needlessly) to kick it up a notch. Not sure it changes anything lol.

 

[Kingbish01]

Love Porter, too bad he was out there helping an unconscious AB....I'm still super salty about the Denver game.

 

[kmoose]

I see a Pittsburgh trainer and Joey Porter reacting to Burfict in a hostile fashion that wasn't needed,

Yeah, because Burfict didn't just take a cheap shot at the head of their star receiver. That poor innocent guy, picked on by a couple of old men...

 

[IrishLion]

Yeah, because Burfict didn't just take a cheap shot at the head of their star receiver. That poor innocent guy, picked on by a couple of old men...

Lol you instigator you. "I don't want to reignite the debate blah blah blah"

 

[kmoose]

Lol you instigator you. "I don't want to reignite the debate blah blah blah"

My intention in posting the video was not to reignite the debate. The purpose was to show people like you just how wrong you were, about Porter being out there screaming obscenities at Bengals players and baiting them by hanging out in their huddle. But if you want to defend Miam(FL) North, then feel free.