NFL Fantasy Football Keeper 2016

[Rhode Irish]

Since when? I agree with the part about the penalty going up one round each year, but of course there should be a penalty this first time.

I just never heard of doing the penalty in the first year. It is fine if that is what people want to do. One thing I'd point out, though, is that let's say we approve the rule that there is a restriction on rd. 1 &2 keepers, enforcing the keeper penalty in year 1 effectively makes the rule that you can't keep players drafted in the first 3 rounds.

 

[Ironman8]

That is unfortunate, but we all agreed to play in a keeper league. Nothing says that you have to keep more than 1 player, but it is tough to vote to change the whole nature of the league because you happen to not have a deep roster for keeper purposes this year.

I'd also be for allowing teams that have more keeper options than the number we allow to be kept to trade keeper players to other teams for draft picks, either this year or next.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I feel like you don't want teams totally tanking and only playing for the following season right out of the gate, especially since fantasy football requires an unbalanced schedule.

 

[gkIrish]

No, 9 this year, 8 next year. My understanding is the penalty kicks in in year 2. In year 3 that player would be kept in rd 7, in year 4 he'd be kept in rd 6, etc.

Penalty kicks in this year. We started the league last year. So 9th round pick last year = 8 this year.

My position on not keeping firsts is that it severely favors the 1st pick in the draft. Say Adrian Peterson is always the best player every year by a large margin. The guy who got lucky and drafted him first overall can now keep him in the first round even if he is picking 12th. So he gets Adrian Peterson AND the 1st pick among eligible players. That's not fair.

 

[wizards8507]

I just never heard of doing the penalty in the first year. It is fine if that is what people want to do. One thing I'd point out, though, is that let's say we approve the rule that there is a restriction on rd.

It's not the first year, it's the second year.

1 &2 keepers, enforcing the keeper penalty in year 1 effectively makes the rule that you can't keep players drafted in the first 3 rounds.

Nah, the restriction is on the first and second round players from the 2015 draft, not the applicable penalty year in the 2016 draft. You CAN keep a 2015 third round player and it counts as your 2016 second round pick. You CANNOT keep a 2015 first or second round player.

 

[IrishLion]

You better believe that I'm keeping Amari Cooper for a 3rd rounder haha.

 

[gkIrish]

You better believe that I'm keeping Amari Cooper for a 3rd rounder haha.

You know my team sucked when Eli Manning in the 8th may be my only keeper.

 

[IrishLion]

I've got Carolina's D for a 13th as well if I want it, and Roethlisberger for a 4th, but QB and DEF values are always something I struggle with trying to balance.

I usually just go DEF-K in the last two rounds and then play matchups/statistics each week for those positions on the waiver wire, but Carolina's Defense is the truth, so idk.

 

[Irish Insanity]

When we are all done with the votes and discussion can we have the OP edited to list all these specific rules and such. I just want to ensure I understand going forward. This isn't anything like a league I've played before, and that's a good thing. Ha.

Also, does the computer do all the tracking of what round a player was drafted the previous year and then just skip your pick that round? Or does this require some manual labor from the Commish?

 

[gkIrish]

It's not the first year, it's the second year.


Nah, the restriction is on the first and second round players from the 2015 draft, not the applicable penalty year in the 2016 draft. You CAN keep a 2015 third round player and it counts as your 2016 second round pick. You CANNOT keep a 2015 first or second round player.

Exactly. This effectively allows you to keep a 3rd rounder once, a 4th rounder twice, etc. Once they are a 2nd rounder in the current year, they may not be kept in the following year.

Based on poll results I move for this format:

-Up to 2 Keepers (since 1 and 3 have split the votes). Managers may keep 0, 1, or 2 players.
-Players who were undrafted start as 10th round picks the following year. If you pick up a waived player who was drafted or trade for a player they retain their original draft round value.
-A penalty of 1 round is assessed for each keeper. If your player was a 10th round pick in 2015, he will be a 9th round pick in 2016.
-Any player may be kept, unless they were drafted in rounds 1 or 2 of the previous year. Therefore, a player drafted in round 3 of 2015 may be kept in 2016 as a round 2 pick. However, the player may not be kept in 2017 because he was a Round 2 pick in 2016.

Do you guys agree this is a fair summary of the poll results?

 

[gkIrish]

One small rule I want to add is that the trade deadline is also the deadline for keeper eligibility. Meaning if the player was not on your roster before the trade deadline he cannot be kept. I will take responsibility for saving a screenshot of everyone's roster the day after the deadline if you guys are cool with that rule.

Obvious point of this is that people can't just pick up injured guys after they are eliminated from the playoffs just to keep them the following year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Can we have a 30 minute recess until I'm caught up at work to make any final decision.....

 

[Ironman8]

Penalty kicks in this year. We started the league last year. So 9th round pick last year = 8 this year.

My position on not keeping firsts is that it severely favors the 1st pick in the draft. Say Adrian Peterson is always the best player every year by a large margin. The guy who got lucky and drafted him first overall can now keep him in the first round even if he is picking 12th. So he gets Adrian Peterson AND the 1st pick among eligible players. That's not fair.

He doesn't get the first pick among eligible players though...? If you say this guys wins the league and picks 12, there are still 11 picks before he would keep Peterson, and then we would have the first pick of the second round.

 

[gkIrish]

He doesn't get the first pick among eligible players though...? If you say this guys wins the league and picks 12, there are still 11 picks before he would keep Peterson, and then we would have the first pick of the second round.

I was just assuming everyone keeping their first in that scenario.

He would at a minimum get Peterson and the first pick of the second round. So essentially picks first twice.

 

[wizards8507]

Exactly. This effectively allows you to keep a 3rd rounder once, a 4th rounder twice, etc. Once they are a 2nd rounder in the current year, they may not be kept in the following year.

Based on poll results I move for this format:

-Up to 2 Keepers (since 1 and 3 have split the votes). Managers may keep 0, 1, or 2 players.
-Players who were undrafted start as 10th round picks the following year. If you pick up a waived player who was drafted or trade for a player they retain their original draft round value.
-A penalty of 1 round is assessed for each keeper. If your player was a 10th round pick in 2015, he will be a 9th round pick in 2016.
-Any player may be kept, unless they were drafted in rounds 1 or 2 of the previous year. Therefore, a player drafted in round 3 of 2015 may be kept in 2016 as a round 2 pick. However, the player may not be kept in 2017 because he was a Round 2 pick in 2016.

Do you guys agree this is a fair summary of the poll results?

 

[Ironman8]

I was just assuming everyone keeping their first in that scenario.

He would at a minimum get Peterson and the first pick of the second round. So essentially picks first twice.

There will never ever be a case everyone keeps their first round picks. Look at the first round last season. Lacy, Luck, Lynch, Hill are not going close to the first, and Bell and DT are arguably not firsts either.

Idk, I just completely disagree with the whole notion, especially if "fairness" is the key reason. The difference in value ever at maximum is 11 picks, and I think that is fair to reward someone who acquired that player. It's a keeper league. Doesn't matter to me this year as I won't keep a guy in either round, but I still think Shakedown should be able to keep Brown or Kyle should be able to keep Gronk if they wanted.

But if the majority rules the other way, that's fine. Let's just make sure everyone in the league has a vote before the rules are cemented.

 

[wizards8507]

There will never ever be a case everyone keeps their first round picks. Look at the first round last season. Lacy, Luck, Lynch, Hill are not going close to the first, and Bell and DT are arguably not firsts either.

Idk, I just completely disagree with the whole notion, especially if "fairness" is the key reason. The difference in value ever at maximum is 11 picks, and I think that is fair to reward someone who acquired that player. It's a keeper league. Doesn't matter to me this year as I won't keep a guy in either round, but I still think Shakedown should be able to keep Brown or Kyle should be able to keep Gronk if they wanted.

But if the majority rules the other way, that's fine. Let's just make sure everyone in the league has a vote before the rules are cemented.

The problem is that it disproportionately rewards first round picks over other picks. That's why I don't really have a problem with a second round keeper because you're still assessed a penalty. There's no logistical way to compensate a first round keeper pick and it's not fair that a first round keeper would receive the same penalty as a second round keeper.

 

[Ironman8]

The problem is that it disproportionately rewards first round picks over other picks. That's why I don't really have a problem with a second round keeper because you're still assessed a penalty. There's no logistical way to compensate a first round keeper pick and it's not fair that a first round keeper would receive the same penalty as a second round keeper.

A person does not get a first round pick that year. They just keep that player. How is that not "penalty"? The only way I see a first round keeper is that a person is getting less ROI on a player they want to keep than another with a lower round. How is the first round keeper receiving the same penalty as a second? I don't get that at all.

 

[wizards8507]

A person does not get a first round pick that year. They just keep that player. How is that not "penalty"? The only way I see a first round keeper is that a person is getting less ROI on a player they want to keep than another with a lower round. How is the first round keeper receiving the same penalty as a second? I don't get that at all.

Because your keeper replaces the pick one round better than where they were drafted in the prior year.

Keep a 4th round player and you give up your 3rd round pick
Keep a 3rd round player and you give up your 2nd round pick
Keep a 2nd round player and you give up your 1st round pick
Keep a 1st round player and you give up your 1st round pick?

It doesn't work logistically. What if you wanted to keep your 1st round pick and your 2nd round pick? You can't give up your current first round pick twice.

 

[ShakeDown]

I'm not voting because I literally don't care, at all. It's all good to me whatever y'all want.

Either way I'm in.

 

[wizards8507]

Actually, there's another logistical issue for players acquired by trade or free agency.

#FreeBrady has Darren McFadden (Round 7, Pick 12) and Michael Floyd (Round 7, Pick 8). What happens if he wants to keep both?

 

[Ironman8]

Because your keeper replaces the pick one round better than where they were drafted in the prior year.

Keep a 4th round player and you give up your 3rd round pick
Keep a 3rd round player and you give up your 2nd round pick
Keep a 2nd round player and you give up your 1st round pick
Keep a 1st round player and you give up your 1st round pick?

It doesn't work logistically. What if you wanted to keep your 1st round pick and your 2nd round pick? You can't give up your current first round pick twice.

You keep a person in the 1st round as long as you want. That is the maximum penalty there is. And it goes back to it just being a lesser ROI if you wanted to go that route, but IMO it should be your option.

It does work. And your hypothetical, you'd have to chose. Agreed, you can only use one pick as a keeper pick.

 

[Ironman8]

Actually, there's another logistical issue for players acquired by trade or free agency.

#FreeBrady has Darren McFadden (Round 7, Pick 12) and Michael Floyd (Round 7, Pick 8). What happens if he wants to keep both?

You'd have to give up the round before it (i.e. a 6th and 7th round pick).

 

[wizards8507]

You'd have to give up the round before it (i.e. a 6th and 7th round pick).

Giving up one round before it is the default. If anything, you'd have to give up a 5th and a 6th.

 

[Ironman8]

Giving up one round before it is the default. If anything, you'd have to give up a 5th and a 6th.

Ok. Didn't realize we were applying the one round further already. I've always done it as the round drafted in the year of initiation. No problem.

 

[wizards8507]

Ok. Didn't realize we were applying the one round further already. I've always done it as the round drafted in the year of initiation. No problem.

The one round penalty is the context in which I object to first round keepers. If we weren't doing the one round penalty, I'd agree with you that first round should be fair game.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Exactly. This effectively allows you to keep a 3rd rounder once, a 4th rounder twice, etc. Once they are a 2nd rounder in the current year, they may not be kept in the following year.

Based on poll results I move for this format:

-Up to 2 Keepers (since 1 and 3 have split the votes). Managers may keep 0, 1, or 2 players.
-Players who were undrafted start as 10th round picks the following year. If you pick up a waived player who was drafted or trade for a player they retain their original draft round value.
-A penalty of 1 round is assessed for each keeper. If your player was a 10th round pick in 2015, he will be a 9th round pick in 2016.
-Any player may be kept, unless they were drafted in rounds 1 or 2 of the previous year. Therefore, a player drafted in round 3 of 2015 may be kept in 2016 as a round 2 pick. However, the player may not be kept in 2017 because he was a Round 2 pick in 2016.

Do you guys agree this is a fair summary of the poll results?

I agree with everything except the last statement. That I don't have an opinion on and can see both sides.

EDIT: Why is the only options on the poll for keepers all players available or all but rounds 1 &2. Why can't all but 1st round players be an option. Then you could keep your 2nd round player the following year but surrender your 1st round pick. Basically keepers cost you an extra round each year. When they run out of rounds, you can't keep them

One small rule I want to add is that the trade deadline is also the deadline for keeper eligibility. Meaning if the player was not on your roster before the trade deadline he cannot be kept. I will take responsibility for saving a screenshot of everyone's roster the day after the deadline if you guys are cool with that rule.

Obvious point of this is that people can't just pick up injured guys after they are eliminated from the playoffs just to keep them the following year.

Agree

Actually, there's another logistical issue for players acquired by trade or free agency.

#FreeBrady has Darren McFadden (Round 7, Pick 12) and Michael Floyd (Round 7, Pick 8). What happens if he wants to keep both?

I thought this scenario was covered earlier in the thread but I can't find it. I'd assume it would be 1 of 2 choices: you can only keep 1 because you only have 1 6th round pick or you can keep both but Floyd would cost you a 5th.

 

[GATTACA!]

Just caught up. Let me vote and then we can make a final decision. I think if we did 1st round keepers maybe then you have to go last in the 2nd round regardless of where you were supposed to draft? That way keeping a second rounder costs you your first pick, but keeping a first rounder costs you your first and pushes you to last in the second?

 

[Ironman8]

The one round penalty is the context in which I object to first round keepers. If we weren't doing the one round penalty, I'd agree with you that first round should be fair game.

So what your saying is the only way you could get on board with the first round is if there is an additional penalty for a keeper beyond someone's first pick in the draft?

Idk, maybe agree to disagree but I just can't wrap my head around your issue being disappropriate penalties. The max penalty is the max. There has to be an end point. But why should that mean a person can't keep any player he acquired. To me that's the essence of a keeper league. But again, if the league votes otherwise, that's fine. Just doesn't make sense to me. I have absolutely no problem with anyone ever forfeiting their first round pick to keep a player - to me that's a big give up in ROI and value. I'd never do it - I just think there should be the option.

 

[Irish Insanity]

2 of my players have retired. And Carr and Dalton may be my only players worth keeping for value...........