ND Offers White Privilege Course

[ickythump1225]

That is all very inspiring, but it seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what is meant by white privilege. Nobody mistakenly believes all white people are born with a million dollar trust account and a guarantee of a stress-free and easy existence. The concept of white privilege refers to an institutional bias that affords white people a benefit of the doubt not afforded to others. That institutional bias is real and manifests itself statistically in arrest rates, traffic stop rates, stop-and-frisk rates, judicial outcomes for people charged with similar crimes (imprisonment vs. alternative punishments) - particularly drug crimes, and in the makeup of the corporate workforce where minorities are drastically underrepresented versus the country's makeup on the whole.

I also don't think anyone is asking individual white people to sandbag themselves in the name of leveling the playing field. The point of talking about white privilege is, I think, just to promote awareness and put pressure on the institutions to act better and more fairly. You aren't being asked to feel bad for being born a white person, just to recognize that we haven't eradicated institutional prejudice yet and that more needs to be done.

Though I disagree with you I at least respect your well thought argument here and reasonable tone.

 

[ickythump1225]

If you resist unlawful arrest and you are choked to death it's your fault.

Yeah..."unlawful." Again making up facts that fit your narrative. Tell me again how Mike Brown was just strolling down the side of the road and got gunned down in cold blood running away with his hands up in the air...

 

[BobbyMac]

Black Privilege

POTY nominee!

.

 

[BobbyMac]

If HS teachers have to read aloud to students, the students should NOT be in HS. They shouldn't have passed the 5th grade.

I have a professor friend who teaches remedial English at a local college. It's not English as a second language but English at a 5th grad level for incoming freshman of all races who made it through 13 years of our education system without attaining the language skills of a real 5th grader. Reading aloud is not the solution. It's perpetuates the problem and provides the student with a phony degree. It exacerbates the problem when a student with a new diploma can't get a job because they can't read job instructions nor make change wihtout a cash register to do the math.


My grandmother didn't get read to at home or anywhere. My great grandmother was a alcoholic. Neither she nor her husband were discussed by my grandma and her sibling as adults. My grandmother was the oldest of 10 kids in Hell's Kitchen. A 6th floor walkup with little heat in the winter, stiffling heat in the summer, and candlelight because they couldn't afford the gaslights. Think Bed Stuy without the benefits. Gangs and violence without food stamps, no school breakfasts and lunches, no welfare, no social security checks, no unemployment checks much less extended benefits and neighborhood block grants, no medical clinics, community activists, nor other forms of assistance. NO NOTHING. You made it on your own or you died, usually young. At a time when there were no civilian review boards, no secruity cameras, no 24/7 news shows and people didn't have the luxury of laying in the street for hours because the coppers would have split their skulls with billy clubs regardless of race or attire because "they were blockin' the fuckin' way!"

Her white privilege was to get a job at 12 while she was also the cook, housekeeper, and schoolmarm to her younger siblings as well as tending to her "ill" parents. She didn't graduate grade school but she saw to it that her siblings did. She wasn't a victim, she was a survivor. As were those that preceded her through 800 years of oppression and a program of "racial cleansing".

As a mother she worked three jobs so her son could attend a parochial HS 4 bus transfers away and then college. He quit college after one semester to get a job to help out finanically as his father's heart was failing.

My grandfather's line was a bunch of immigrant ditch diggers and quarrymen. Manual labor 12 hours a day, 6 days a week when there was work. It was NINA time, "No Irish Need Apply". Black slaves at the time had a harsh life but they had a roof and meager food. The Irish were worth less. Some of my ancestors used their white privilege as Union Soldiers during the war to free the slaves that would compete for their meager jobs. Education wasn't required, just the ability to carry and gun and bleed.

My father owned two pairs of shoes, one brown and a one black. He had one suit. My mother's closet was 30 inches wide. She didn't have to spend time planning what to wear. She couldn't go a full week with out rewearing the same clothes. When they got married he had the white privilege of working for a finance company ... he repossessed cars. My mother would drive him to the repossessed cars. She once got shot at by an angry non-payer.

My oldest sister had a year of business school. The next sister got a associate's degree as a bilingual secretary, English/Spanish. Then my dad died at 47 of heart disease. We had no insurance as my parents didn't have much money and had to make tough financial choices. We didn't have the luxury to live paycheck to paycheck. He was a proprietor with two employees. If the week's recepits were slow he got the short end as the employees paychecks and witholding came first. When he died during my last week of high school, my ND admission went by the board as I first commuted to college and then lived near campus in the ghetto. The Central Ward, Newark NJ where there were more white street lights than white people. Where my fraternity did volunteer work (teaching and mentoring to neighborhood kids and volunteering in the local hospital during the Newark Riots in '67. There was a sniper on the roof of the brown stone where I had a room. I saw enough horror that week to last a life time. Ferguson was a student demonstration by comparison. (Google Springfield Avenue.) I worked 18 jobs from clean up work, busboy, short order cook to being a Teamster (beer truck driver in Harlem and the Bronx) while in college to pay my own way while my mother worked to raise the 9 year old and 7 year old who had no father. I became the first college graduate in my family and used my white privilege to get drafted in the "black man's war" in Vietnam. After the army I went back to engineering and used my easy stress free white privileges to have a heart attack at 33. I had my second one this week. Fourteen years ago I became the oldest living male in the 6 generations since we arrived here on a former slave ship. But enough of my white privilege.

My younger sister used her white privilege to earn two degrees in special education then couldn't find a job in her field. She worked as a waitress, retail sales, sold supplies to the Navy, and today is a very successful business person. She raised two kids as a divorced mom with a jerk ex-husband. Two of my sisters raised kids successfully while working and struggling to pay bills without food stamps, or welfare.

My brother paid his own way through college working as a yardman, hot tar roofer, framer, electrician helper, and mason's helper after my mother died of a heart attack. He used his white privilege to become a felon for Intent To Distribute. He did his time and turned his life around ... on his own initiative and has lead a productive life.

My grandmother knew hopeless poverty as a child. She broke the cycle because she would not be a victim. She wasn't the type to pitch an Abercrombie and Fitch tent to demonstrate with her $600 cell phone or with her $200 Beats or $200 sneakers while whining about her student loans she took to avoid working. Nor was she the type to burn down her neighborhood for change.

She started the climb out of the crucible before she was a teenager with no parental help, no government help, and no one reading aloud. She didn't have white privilege but I am privileged to have known her. Color, race, or nationality has nothing to do with it. You can find similar stories in all the countries on all the contintents. The journey of a thousand steps still begins with a single step but you have to take it. Not demand that another walk it for you.

Correction, THIS is the POTY.

.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Yeah..."unlawful." Again making up facts that fit your narrative. Tell me again how Mike Brown was just strolling down the side of the road and got gunned down in cold blood running away with his hands up in the air...

Choke hold is unlawful and there was no reason to arrest him.

 

[calvegas04]

Choke hold is unlawful and there was no reason to arrest him.

other than breaking the law and resisting arrest, he was clean

 

[GoldenDomer]

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Black Privilege

Post of the year. Hands down

 

[kmoose]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xeukZ6RcUd8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[ickythump1225]

Choke hold is unlawful and there was no reason to arrest him.

Oh yeah breaking the law isn't a reason to get arrested I forgot.

 

[Nick Setta]

Oh yeah breaking the law isn't a reason to get arrested I forgot.

Are you trying to make the argument that its ok to get a chokehold for freaking suspicion of selling cigarettes? Go back to North Korea man.

 

[ickythump1225]

Are you trying to make the argument that its ok to get a chokehold for freaking suspicion of selling cigarettes? Go back to North Korea man.

He broke the law so he was going to get arrested. Then he resisted arrest leading to the choke hold move. Had he A)not been breaking the law and then B)not resisted arrest he would still be alive right now. But no you're right it's the police officers fault that he choose to break the law and then resist arrest. If only Eric Garner were white the police would have choked themselves out...

 

[ginman]

That is all very inspiring, but it seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what is meant by white privilege. Nobody mistakenly believes all white people are born with a million dollar trust account and a guarantee of a stress-free and easy existence. The concept of white privilege refers to an institutional bias that affords white people a benefit of the doubt not afforded to others. That institutional bias is real and manifests itself statistically in arrest rates, traffic stop rates, stop-and-frisk rates, judicial outcomes for people charged with similar crimes (imprisonment vs. alternative punishments) - particularly drug crimes, and in the makeup of the corporate workforce where minorities are drastically underrepresented versus the country's makeup on the whole.

I also don't think anyone is asking individual white people to sandbag themselves in the name of leveling the playing field. The point of talking about white privilege is, I think, just to promote awareness and put pressure on the institutions to act better and more fairly. You aren't being asked to feel bad for being born a white person, just to recognize that we haven't eradicated institutional prejudice yet and that more needs to be done.

Why not a course on Asian privilege? Is disparity in arrest rates related to behavior, perception or racism. The answer is probably yes.

If this course is similar to anything I learned in university, all diversity will be tolerated in this class as long as you don't have a dissenting view from the professor who self-selected to teach it.

 

[phgreek]

Why not a course on Asian privilege? Is disparity in arrest rates related to behavior, perception or racism. The answer is probably yes.

If this course is similar to anything I learned in university, all diversity will be tolerated in this class as long as you don't have a dissenting view from the professor who self-selected to teach it.

This is my concern...

 

[Rhode Irish]

Why not a course on Asian privilege? Is disparity in arrest rates related to behavior, perception or racism. The answer is probably yes.

If this course is similar to anything I learned in university, all diversity will be tolerated in this class as long as you don't have a dissenting view from the professor who self-selected to teach it.

Mostly because American business and legal institutions aren't dominated primarily with Asian men. Pointing to Asian immigrant success, or Irish or Italian immigrant success (I am Italian/Irish 4th generation fwiw) ignores the fact that the American experience has been fundamentally different for blacks than it has been for people with other ethnic backgrounds. I am not and am not interested in making excuses for any individual instances of bad behavior by anyone, but in the macro it is a intellectually dishonest to dismiss the long history of relations between blacks and whites in this country and the effects that have carried into the present day related to socioeconomic opportunities and access to the power structure in this country. Anecdotal examples of individual successes don't detract from that narrative, either, because supremely talented people will always be able to rise in just about any circumstance. But everyone can't be supremely talented. How many idiots do you know that continue to fail upwards because their daddy is important or has undepletable resources? And how many of those are white versus those that are black?

I made the point earlier in the thread that this board is about as white, male, middle-aged and middle class of a community as you can find. That isn't to say that you can't have an opinion or insight on this topic, but people should also keep in mind that even if you have overcome difficult circumstances, your particular life experience is not necessarily shared by everyone. A lot of the comments here reflect a lack of concern for people that have had a different experience. Even if you don't care enough to actually DO anything about it, it doesn't show a great deal of compassion or even intellectual curiosity to just dismiss other people's experiences.

 

[ickythump1225]

Mostly because American business and legal institutions aren't dominated primarily with Asian men. Pointing to Asian immigrant success, or Irish or Italian immigrant success (I am Italian/Irish 4th generation fwiw) ignores the fact that the American experience has been fundamentally different for blacks than it has been for people with other ethnic backgrounds. I am not and am not interested in making excuses for any individual instances of bad behavior by anyone, but in the macro it is a intellectually dishonest to dismiss the long history of relations between blacks and whites in this country and the effects that have carried into the present day related to socioeconomic opportunities and access to the power structure in this country. Anecdotal examples of individual successes don't detract from that narrative, either, because supremely talented people will always be able to rise in just about any circumstance. But everyone can't be supremely talented. How many idiots do you know that continue to fail upwards because their daddy is important or has undepletable resources? And how many of those are white versus those that are black?

I made the point earlier in the thread that this board is about as white, male, middle-aged and middle class of a community as you can find. That isn't to say that you can't have an opinion or insight on this topic, but people should also keep in mind that even if you have overcome difficult circumstances, your particular life experience is not necessarily shared by everyone. A lot of the comments here reflect a lack of concern for people that have had a different experience. Even if you don't care enough to actually DO anything about it, it doesn't show a great deal of compassion or even intellectual curiosity to just dismiss other people's experiences.

I'm 10000000% certain people have had a much harder life than me. However I'm also just as certain that no one gets anywhere in life by throwing up their hands and saying "ah well my life is impossible because I'm black/poor/fat/dumb/etc." I understand that some people are born into dire situations but at some point you become responsible for your own life. We can't choose what happens to us (most of the time) but we can always choose how we react to it. What I see 99.99% of the time during discussions of "white privilege" is excuse making and blame shifting. I'm not responsible for anyone's success or failure but my own. My last name isn't Rockefeller or Bush so I've never gotten to fail upward.

What about all of the black athletes who get cut a lot of slack from universities and local PD's only because they're star athletes? Is that black privilege? If Jameis Winston was James Winston and just an average player on the FSU baseball team or a non athlete he'd probably be gone from FSU by now.

 

[IrishLax]

I respect that Rhode Irish can make posts with that amount of detail and length, and be 100% factually accurate and logically consistent throughout the entire post. Refreshing.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I respect that Rhode Irish can make posts with that amount of detail and length, and be 100% factually accurate and logically consistent throughout the entire post. Refreshing.

I think a lot of people here can attest to the fact that I am not above flying off the handle sometimes and posting with a lot of emotion. But clearly not much is being accomplished when I do that and I think there are some ideas that are worth trying to share here in a way that won't instantly turn people off.

 

[dshans]

The course description claims the main objective for each student is "... personal transformation: to leave the class and conference more aware of injustices and better equipped with tools to disrupt personal, institutional, and worldwide systems of oppression."

The purpose of education is to transform. Whether it be social, technical, artistic, analytical or any other such thing. Examine, Explore, Evaluate, Extrapolate and Elucidate.

Seminars are meetings to (primarily) discuss a topic. The title may be a "hint" or a "hook." The intent, the purpose, is to stimulate. I took many a seminar at ND on a number of topics. Some dry and uninspiring; some controversial, lively and enlightening.

I assume that this is offered through The College of Arts and Letters. Bully for them. They are discharging their duty.

Take the damn class/seminar. Listen. Participate. Learn. Then comment. I don't care which side of the fence you're on or are squeezing the life out of your balls staddling the top rail.

As my high school (Irish born) religion teacher would say, "Keep talkin', Shanahan" just before he kicked me in the shins.


Did I do the wrong thing by taking Women in American History? Afro-American History? Afro-American Literature? Theology of Revolution?

 

[illmatic630]

That is all very inspiring, but it seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what is meant by white privilege. Nobody mistakenly believes all white people are born with a million dollar trust account and a guarantee of a stress-free and easy existence. The concept of white privilege refers to an institutional bias that affords white people a benefit of the doubt not afforded to others. That institutional bias is real and manifests itself statistically in arrest rates, traffic stop rates, stop-and-frisk rates, judicial outcomes for people charged with similar crimes (imprisonment vs. alternative punishments) - particularly drug crimes, and in the makeup of the corporate workforce where minorities are drastically underrepresented versus the country's makeup on the whole.

I also don't think anyone is asking individual white people to sandbag themselves in the name of leveling the playing field. The point of talking about white privilege is, I think, just to promote awareness and put pressure on the institutions to act better and more fairly. You aren't being asked to feel bad for being born a white person, just to recognize that we haven't eradicated institutional prejudice yet and that more needs to be done.

easiest the smartest post i've read on irish envy in a very long time, and i agree with you 100%

 

[ginman]

easiest the smartest post i've read on irish envy in a very long time, and i agree with you 100%

Yes, the smartest posts are the ones that we agree with. It's called confirmation bias!

 

[illmatic630]

The course description claims the main objective for each student is "... personal transformation: to leave the class and conference more aware of injustices and better equipped with tools to disrupt personal, institutional, and worldwide systems of oppression."

The purpose of education is to transform. Whether it be social, technical, artistic, analytical or any other such thing. Examine, Explore, Evaluate, Extrapolate and Elucidate.

Seminars are meetings to (primarily) discuss a topic. The title may be a "hint" or a "hook." The intent, the purpose, is to stimulate. I took many a seminar at ND on a number of topics. Some dry and uninspiring; some controversial, lively and enlightening.

I assume that this is offered through The College of Arts and Letters. Bully for them. They are discharging their duty.

Take the damn class/seminar. Listen. Participate. Learn. Then comment. I don't care which side of the fence you're on or are squeezing the life out of your balls staddling the top rail.

As my high school (Irish born) religion teacher would say, "Keep talkin', Shanahan" just before he kicked me in the shins.


Did I do the wrong thing by taking Women in American History? Afro-American History? Afro-American Literature? Theology of Revolution?

one of my biggest regrets is not taking more of these classes. If i go back to school i certainly will.

 

[Bluto]

I'm 10000000% certain people have had a much harder life than me. However I'm also just as certain that no one gets anywhere in life by throwing up their hands and saying "ah well my life is impossible because I'm black/poor/fat/dumb/etc." I understand that some people are born into dire situations but at some point you become responsible for your own life. We can't choose what happens to us (most of the time) but we can always choose how we react to it. What I see 99.99% of the time during discussions of "white privilege" is excuse making and blame shifting. I'm not responsible for anyone's success or failure but my own. My last name isn't Rockefeller or Bush so I've never gotten to fail upward.

What about all of the black athletes who get cut a lot of slack from universities and local PD's only because they're star athletes? Is that black privilege? If Jameis Winston was James Winston and just an average player on the FSU baseball team or a non athlete he'd probably be gone from FSU by now.

You answered your own question. It's athlete privilege. See Ben Rothelsberger, Johnny Maziel...

 

[kmoose]

but in the macro it is a intellectually dishonest to dismiss the long history of relations between blacks and whites in this country and the effects that have carried into the present day related to socioeconomic opportunities and access to the power structure in this country. Anecdotal examples of individual successes don't detract from that narrative, either, because supremely talented people will always be able to rise in just about any circumstance.

So are we to assume that the determining factor in access to the power structure in this country is supreme talent, or white skin color? In the last Presidential Administration, we had two black Secretaries of State (Powell and Rice), a black Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (Jackson), a black Secretary of Education (Paige), and a black Attorney General (Holder). Now we have a black President, and have black cabinet members in: Attorney General (Holder), Transportation(Foxx), and Homeland Security (Johnson). So at what point do you; meaning you, Rhode Irish, say that this is no longer indicative of supreme talent alone, and is also indicative of fair access to the system?

 

[Grahambo]

I was born to a mother who was a drug abuser and adulterer who eventually abandoned myself and two sisters. My father received custody of us 3 then remarried a few years later. My step-mother turned out to be mentally unstable and life didn't come easy. I slacked off in high school and my only chance to get out and make something of myself was through the Marines. I decided to do something about my go nowhere life.

I signed on to do intelligence, got a high clearance, and spent 5 years serving all over. Started my own family and was able to become the first member of my family to receive a bachelor's degree (my dad has an associate's) which I got in International Relations.

I then move on to protecting the Office of the POTUS and now back to doing what I did in the Marines but as a contractor. I also have an opportunity to go corporate.

Not the saddest story in the world nor the most difficult to overcome but I certainly had to bust my ass and surrender countless drops of blood, sweat, and tears while sacrificing family time. Not to mention putting my life on the line several different times, most notably last year at the Capitol. Personal success hasn't come easy or was it handed to me.

You can't control the situation you were born into but you can do something about it. Rakeem Cato is a great example.

The only privilege I've received has been the ability to make a choice. It's the same privilege most people get but few take seriously.

 

[NDRock]

...but in the macro it is a intellectually dishonest to dismiss the long history of relations between blacks and whites in this country and the effects that have carried into the present day related to socioeconomic opportunities and access to the power structure in this country.

Don't disagree but would you say the institutional bias has lessened for blacks in the last 40 years or so? Compare 1960 vs. today, how far have we come in this area, how far further do we need to go. I'm interested in your opinion.

 

[dshans]

Don't disagree but would you say the institutional bias has lessened for blacks in the last 40 years or so? Compare 1960 vs. today, how far have we come in this area, how far further do we need to go.

Holy fucking shit.

Just holy fucking shit.

Baby step increments?

I'll shut the fuck up now since I'm sure that you're sincere in your query.

And I'd just as soon not "color" my rep as a (somewhat) vacuous wag with boring, long winded stories.

 

[NDRock]

Holy fucking shit.

Just holy fucking shit.

Baby step increments?

I'll shut the fuck up now since I'm sure that you're sincere in your query.

And I'd just as soon not "color" my rep as a (somewhat) vacuous wag with boring, long winded stories.

Don't really understand your post (nothing new). Anyway, I don't really disagree that there are institutional roadblocks that those in the black community must overcome. I do think that things are much better than say, the 1960's (some may disagree). I just wish there was as much of a dialog on how to overcome these "roadblocks" as there is on the inequality of the system.

I'll just stick to discussing ND football.

 

[GoldenDome]

I was born to a mother who was a drug abuser and adulterer who eventually abandoned myself and two sisters. My father received custody of us 3 then remarried a few years later. My step-mother turned out to be mentally unstable and life didn't come easy. I slacked off in high school and my only chance to get out and make something of myself was through the Marines. I decided to do something about my go nowhere life.

I signed on to do intelligence, got a high clearance, and spent 5 years serving all over. Started my own family and was able to become the first member of my family to receive a bachelor's degree (my dad has an associate's) which I got in International Relations.

I then move on to protecting the Office of the POTUS and now back to doing what I did in the Marines but as a contractor. I also have an opportunity to go corporate.

Not the saddest story in the world nor the most difficult to overcome but I certainly had to bust my ass and surrender countless drops of blood, sweat, and tears while sacrificing family time. Not to mention putting my life on the line several different times, most notably last year at the Capitol. Personal success hasn't come easy or was it handed to me.

You can't control the situation you were born into but you can do something about it. Rakeem Cato is a great example.

The only privilege I've received has been the ability to make a choice. It's the same privilege most people get but few take seriously.

Just go to your local Louis Vuitton store and watch the security guard follow the black people that enter the store. Even the news shows Whites in a higher level. Take the case where that SF Giants fan that got his head stomped at the Dodgers game, coverage was everywhere. The year before a Mexican man was killed at the Dodger game but only minimal local coverage. Why is that? Oh yeah, he was just a Mexican. Screw him, he probably doesn't have any family or kids to support. He is probably just a gang member.

 

[ickythump1225]

Just go to your local Louis Vuitton store and watch the security guard follow the black people that enter the store. Even the news shows Whites in a higher level. Take the case where that SF Giants fan that got his head stomped at the Dodgers game, coverage was everywhere. The year before a Mexican man was killed at the Dodger game but only minimal local coverage. Why is that? Oh yeah, he was just a Mexican. Screw him, he probably doesn't have any family or kids to support. He is probably just a gang member.

I can't believe there are people out there who really think like this. It has to be trolling, it just has to.