More SEC arrests

[IrishLax]

Situation handled very appropriately. Incident -> Suspension -> Review -> Expulsion

 

[Me2SouthBend]

How long before they practice w War Eagle?

 

[Booslum31]

Definitely no surprise to anyone. There was zero chance at least 3 of them would ever be part of the team again. You could almost make a case for Calloway not getting axed since he wasn't actually involved with the robberies, but he'd had a brush with the rules during the '11 season, so his shot at another chance was slim to none. I hate that those guys messed up this badly and blew their chance, but actions have consequences. I hope they get their heads on straight, learn something from this, and turn their lives around.

I think they have a better chance of learning from this experience if we all pray for them.

 

[irishtrain]

I know you guys are going to say there goes 'train' being negative again but lets let these creeps alone. They cheat/they stretch rules/they do anything to win/they have non students on campus to win football games/they are slime/they are everything you wouldnt want Notre Dame to be. But lets stay positive here and let it go. I'm laughing all the while I type this. How DO you stay positve about this mess. What a 'crock' the sec and alabama. College football my @$#. And they have the %$##@ to critisize Teo. The media totally overlooks this and now the coach is back on his thone as the leader of young men. What a crock of $#@^. He's nothing more than a busy truant officer. Of course they need prayers, anyone that beats up inferior little college students needs prayers. Pray that the sec doesnt screw up college football anymore than it already has. Makes Manti Teo look like Sir Lancelot.

 

[Rack Em]

How long before they practice w War Eagle?

As soon as they can get them on payroll.








No italics.

 

[RyCo1983]

As soon as they can get them on payroll.








No italics.

No italics???

REPS SIR!

 

[Booslum31]

I know you guys are going to say there goes 'train' being negative again but lets let these creeps alone. They cheat/they stretch rules/they do anything to win/they have non students on campus to win football games/they are slime/they are everything you wouldnt want Notre Dame to be. But lets stay positive here and let it go. I'm laughing all the while I type this. How DO you stay positve about this mess. What a 'crock' the sec and alabama. College football my @$#. And they have the %$##@ to critisize Teo. The media totally overlooks this and now the coach is back on his thone as the leader of young men. What a crock of $#@^. He's nothing more than a busy truant officer. Of course they need prayers, anyone that beats up inferior little college students needs prayers. Pray that the sec doesnt screw up college football anymore than it already has. Makes Manti Teo look like Sir Lancelot.

I was just trying to point out that more than "hope" will be required to have these kids turn their lives around.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I was just trying to point out that more than "hope" will be required to have these kids turn their lives around.

I agree that it will take more than hope. I'm not ready to toss those four kids to the trash heap and write them off as hopeless yet, though. There are plenty of people who've done as bad or worse, turned their lives around, and gone on to be good, productive members of society. Think about how many really good people you know who once did something incredibly stupid or bad. There's no guarantee any of those 4 kids won't end up in prison for life (and they sure seem headed in that direction right now), but there's a decent chance they learn from this and straighten their lives up. There's still hope for them.

 

[Luckylucci]

Eddie Williams was a stud coming out of HS, 6'4 and moves like a safety. Always thought he could be special if he stayed away from stuff like this.

 

[RallySon]

I agree that it will take more than hope. I'm not ready to toss those four kids to the trash heap and write them off as hopeless yet, though. There are plenty of people who've done as bad or worse, turned their lives around, and gone on to be good, productive members of society. Think about how many really good people you know who once did something incredibly stupid or bad. There's no guarantee any of those 4 kids won't end up in prison for life (and they sure seem headed in that direction right now), but there's a decent chance they learn from this and straighten their lives up. There's still hope for them.

Is this sarcasm?

This wasn't a DUI or getting caught with some weed. These violent individuals, after given every possible amenity a college has to offer, brutally assaulted and robbed a fellow student for no reason. This is just one of countless examples of certain kids given everything who decided to act on their innate, violent and impulsive behaviors.

Read into that how you will, but its a reality.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Is this sarcasm?

This wasn't a DUI or getting caught with some weed. These violent individuals, after given every possible amenity a college has to offer, brutally assaulted and robbed a fellow student for no reason. This is just one of countless examples of certain kids given everything who decided to act on their innate, violent and impulsive behaviors.

Read into that how you will, but its a reality.

What part of it would strike you as sarcastic? Nobody has said what those four guys did wasn't exceptionally bad or that they shouldn't be punished. I'm sure not going to make excuses for them or argue for leniency. Their actions were sociopathic and I hope they spend time in jail for it. I also hope that instead of continuing down this path, they learn from the consequences of their actions and turn their lives around while they still can. I believe there's hope that they can. Whether they actually do is up to them.

 

[irish1958]

What part of it would strike you as sarcastic? Nobody has said what those four guys did wasn't exceptionally bad or that they shouldn't be punished. I'm sure not going to make excuses for them or argue for leniency. Their actions were sociopathic and I hope they spend time in jail for it. I also hope that instead of continuing down this path, they learn from the consequences of their actions and turn their lives around while they still can. I believe there's hope that they can. Whether they actually do is up to them.

They are either heavily into drugs and/or psychopathic. At their age, I doubt that there is any hope that they will reform.

 

[BGIF]

They are either heavily into drugs and/or psychopathic. At their age, I doubt that there is any hope that they will reform.

Wasn't Doug Gottlieb the same age? Look how he's turned out since he got kicked out of school.

 

[irishtrain]

Eddie Williams was a stud coming out of HS, 6'4 and moves like a safety. Always thought he could be special if he stayed away from stuff like this.

This is exactly what I mean-Eddie is a real prospect-Eddie more than likely does not belong on a college campus. The sec and alabama bring these guys in with their fingers crossed that they dont do exactly what these 'studs' just did. Minor league pro football here boys, nothing more nothing less. Eddie is a stud-exactly.

 

[Bishop2b5]

They are either heavily into drugs and/or psychopathic. At their age, I doubt that there is any hope that they will reform.

There aren't any indications of psychopathic behavior in this, and I haven't heard anything about drugs being involved in this situation. This seems more like kids with poor values, bad attitudes, immaturity, lack of impulse control, a lack of empathy, and a wanton disregard for the welfare of anyone else. I wouldn't say the chances that they will reform are high, but they certainly aren't nonexistent either. They're only 18-20 years old. There's a reasonable hope for them.

George Forman was just as bad as those kids and probably a lot worse when he was a teen. He was full of anger, beating people up just for the fun of it, robbing folks, and being a real thug. He got his head on straight and turned out OK.

Look up Dr. Ben Carson. He tried to stab a classmate to death when he was a teenager. Carson turned out OK, to say the least.

I could give you dozens of examples of famous people or just people I know in my own life who've done some very bad stuff, screwed up their lives, been heading towards prison or the cemetary, but turned it around and became good people again. I don't think the chances for these four guys are great, given what they did, but certainly not hopeless yet either.

 

[irishog77]

There aren't any indications of psychopathic behavior in this, and I haven't heard anything about drugs being involved in this situation. This seems more like kids with poor values, bad attitudes, immaturity, lack of impulse control, a lack of empathy, and a wanton disregard for the welfare of anyone else. I wouldn't say the chances that they will reform are high, but they certainly aren't nonexistent either. They're only 18-20 years old. There's a reasonable hope for them.

George Forman was just as bad as those kids and probably a lot worse when he was a teen. He was full of anger, beating people up just for the fun of it, robbing folks, and being a real thug. He got his head on straight and turned out OK.

Look up Dr. Ben Carson. He tried to stab a classmate to death when he was a teenager. Carson turned out OK, to say the least.

I could give you dozens of examples of famous people or just people I know in my own life who've done some very bad stuff, screwed up their lives, been heading towards prison or the cemetary, but turned it around and became good people again. I don't think the chances for these four guys are great, given what they did, but certainly not hopeless yet either.

Wait...so there's an exception to the rule??? Shocker.

You're right, these kids MAY turn out to be Mother Teresa's, all of them. The overwhelming numbers and statistics say otherwise though.

I wish you well in your quest to save these young men.

 

[BGIF]

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, ...

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, ...

Despite your initial protestation to the contrary (your M.O.) your list of their characteristics uncannily mirrors the wiki description of Physcopathy. I broke your long sentence and theirs into lists for comparison.

Don't like wiki's description? Then try Hare's Physcopathy Checklist linked at the wiki site. Another instant B-I-N-G-O.

There aren't any indications of psychopathic behavior in this, and I haven't heard anything about drugs being involved in this situation. This seems more like kids with:

poor values,
bad attitudes,
immaturity,
lack of impulse control,
a lack of empathy,
and a wanton disregard for the welfare of anyone else. ...

Per wiki:

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2] is a personality disorder that has been variously characterized by:

shallow emotions (including reduced fear, a lack of empathy, and stress tolerance),
coldheartedness,
egocentricity,
superficial charm,
manipulativeness,
irresponsibility,
impulsivity,
criminality,
antisocial behavior,
a lack of remorse,
and a parasitic lifestyle.

 

[IrishLax]

Haven't we been down this road enough? I can save us all a lot of time and finger energy and tell you how this is going to go:

Irish Poster: Says something that is a generalization or sanctimonious... or completely neutral.
Bishop: Says something completely reasonable in response.
Multiple Irish Posters: *jump down Bishop's throat*
Bishop: *reacts*
Multiple Irish Posters: *creates straw man*
Bishop: *creates straw man*

And then 100+ posts later nothing is accomplished.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Despite your initial protestation to the contrary (your M.O.) your list of their characteristics uncannily mirrors the wiki description of Physcopathy. I broke your long sentence and theirs into lists for comparison.

Don't like wiki's description? Then try Hare's Physcopathy Checklist linked at the wiki site. Another instant B-I-N-G-O.

Well, you have some points and there are some overlapping behaviors, but psychopathy is something very different from what we see here and something very different from sociopathy. Psychopathy is a serious mental disorder usually involving delusions, a break from reality, possible hallucinations, bizarre behavior, etc. A serial killer who skins his victims to make a dress, a person who hears voices, someone who thinks the cat talks to him, someone convinced he's God... that's psychopathy. They may have poor impulse control, no empathy, commit crimes, etc., but the underlying cause is psychopathic.

The person who rapes & robs, kills or assaults for the fun of it or because he wants something and doesn't care who he hurts... that's a sociopath. It's like the difference between a serial killer who kills 20 people and drinks their blood because he thinks his is turning to powder (yes, there's such a case), versus the guy who kills 20 people in a string of armed robberies. There are a lot of similarities, but the overall cause and motivation are quite different. The first is psychopathic behavior; the second is sociopathic.

 

[BGIF]

Haven't we been down this road enough? I can save us all a lot of time and finger energy and tell you how this is going to go:

Bishop: Says something completely reasonable in response.
...

"There aren't any indications of physcopathic behavior in this ... " and then he enumerates their physcopathic behavior IS completely reasonable?

 

[IrishLax]

"There aren't any indications of physcopathic behavior in this ... " and then he enumerates their physcopathic behavior IS completely reasonable?

More referring to posts 251 and 254

 

[Bishop2b5]

"There aren't any indications of physcopathic behavior in this ... " and then he enumerates their physcopathic behavior IS completely reasonable?

Think of it like this. AIDS & the flu have a lot in common. Both produce fever, chills, nausea, night sweats, weight loss, coughing, body aches, etc., yet most of us know the difference between the two diseases and realize that just because they have several symptoms in common, they aren't the same thing. You look at the overall list of symptoms and the underlying causes, missing or present "hallmark" symptoms, the degree of severity of symptoms, etc.

Despite their behavior having a few things in common with psychopathic behavior, some of the hallmarks of psychopathy are totally absent here. There's no delusional behavior, no voices, no hallucinations, no bizarre compulsions, etc. These guys engaged in thuggish, criminal behavior that borderlines on sociopathy.

 

[irishtrain]

These guys or kids didnt belong on a college campus. Plain and to the point. You keep bringing in guys to win football games and entertain you on Saturday and this is what you get. The majority of people who pull for this university could care less what type of individuals they are. They only care about winning for the alabama cause. Alabama has been luckey in many ways that the %$#@ that goes on there has not blown up in the face until this point. You can spin this anyway you like but the results are the results. These guys never belonged on campus. They are there because they play football very very well for their age group. Saban is not some father from boystown making an impact on young college guys, he's a good coach at a university that said we want to win and you do the rest. We will not interfere with how you do it. This is what you get when you are more interested in winning football games that running a university and only allowing guys in the program who belong in college. Shaper of young men my @#$. I am not going to let this go because the problem you see is the results of big time college football going amuck. Yes, you kicked Notre Dame's $#@ in the championship game-bravo. If this happened at Notre Dame the whole football program would be under investigation by the governing body that runs Notre Dame. At Alabama they turn the page and turn a blind eye-embarrassing. It gives new meaning to 'roll tide'-as in rolling fellow college students.

 

[Bishop2b5]

These guys or kids didnt belong on a college campus. Plain and to the point. You keep bringing in guys to win football games and entertain you on Saturday and this is what you get. The majority of people who pull for this university could care less what type of individuals they are. They only care about winning for the alabama cause. Alabama has been luckey in many ways that the %$#@ that goes on there has not blown up in the face until this point. You can spin this anyway you like but the results are the results. These guys never belonged on campus. They are there because they play football very very well for their age group. Saban is not some father from boystown making an impact on young college guys, he's a good coach at a university that said we want to win and you do the rest. We will not interfere with how you do it. This is what you get when you are more interested in winning football games that running a university and only allowing guys in the program who belong in college. Shaper of young men my @#$. I am not going to let this go because the problem you see is the results of big time college football going amuck. Yes, you kicked Notre Dame's $#@ in the championship game-bravo. If this happened at Notre Dame the whole football program would be under investigation by the governing body that runs Notre Dame. At Alabama they turn the page and turn a blind eye-embarrassing. It gives new meaning to 'roll tide'-as in rolling fellow college students.

With all due respect sir, you have a burr under your saddle and have let it blind it to the reality of the situation or any facts involved. You see what you want to see, ignore what isn't convenient or doesn't fit your prejudices, and interpret things in the most negative possible way towards an institution you dislike, regardless of whether any of it is actually accurate or not. I doubt anything I can say or any actual facts will change your mind, so carry on.

 

[RallySon]

With all due respect sir, you have a burr under your saddle and have let it blind it to the reality of the situation or any facts involved. You see what you want to see, ignore what isn't convenient or doesn't fit your prejudices, and interpret things in the most negative possible way towards an institution you dislike, regardless of whether any of it is actually accurate or not. I doubt anything I can say or any actual facts will change your mind, so carry on.

I'm not sure I agree with his rant but lets be honest about a large portion of the D1 athletes around the country, especially the ones in the SEC. Without sports, many of these kids wouldn't even visit a college campus let alone go to school there.

Regardless about how anyone feels about Alabama, they, like many of the other big name programs have zero standards in the quality of athletes' character or their ability to perform in the classroom. As long as they perform on the field, they can get away with just about anything that isn't a B felony or above.

These kids don't belong on a college campus. I suppose its good that you maintain a little optimism and hope for people like this but considering the statistics of violent offenders, these guys are done.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I'm not sure I agree with his rant but lets be honest about a large portion of the D1 athletes around the country, especially the ones in the SEC. Without sports, many of these kids wouldn't even visit a college campus let alone go to school there.

Regardless about how anyone feels about Alabama, they, like many of the other big name programs have zero standards in the quality of athletes' character or their ability to perform in the classroom. As long as they perform on the field, they can get away with just about anything that isn't a B felony or above.

These kids don't belong on a college campus. I suppose its good that you maintain a little optimism and hope for people like this but considering the statistics of violent offenders, these guys are done.

I think you're being a little hard on the SEC. We've been on top for a few years and it's easy to put a target on our back and rant about us, but the numbers don't support a lot of the accusations. Compare arrests, graduation rates, probations, etc. to the other major conferences. I doubt our numbers are significantly higher or lower.

There are probably athletes at almost every D1 school who would never set foot on a campus if it wasn't for football or basketball. I'm sure there are some who just don't belong on a campus at all, but I don't think they make up the majority of athletes in D1. As for the four at Bama, what they did certainly makes them unfit for any university, but how could anyone have known that in advance? To the best of my knowledge, none had ever had any significant behavior issues. After their arrest their former HS coaches all said they'd just never seen anything from those kids to make them expect something like this. There don't appear to have been any red flags from any of them before this happened.

As for Bama having zero standards when it comes to athletes' character and work in the classroom, that's definitely inaccurate. I understand a few people really hating us, but to make a statement like that is uncalled for and baseless. This recent event was our first major incident in almost 5 years. That stacks up well against virtually any team's record for character and discipline.

Academically, we've produced a Rhodes finalist, a Heisman winner on the dean's list, a Heisman finalist on the dean's list, a Campbell Trophy winner, and more Academic All-Americans over the past 5 years than the next two programs combined. Our graduation rates, APR scores, and gpa's are well above the national average. Those are all things to be proud of and hardly indicate zero standards.

 

[RallySon]

I think you're being a little hard on the SEC. We've been on top for a few years and it's easy to put a target on our back and rant about us, but the numbers don't support a lot of the accusations. Compare arrests, graduation rates, probations, etc. to the other major conferences. I doubt our numbers are significantly higher or lower.

There are probably athletes at almost every D1 school who would never set foot on a campus if it wasn't for football or basketball. I'm sure there are some who just don't belong on a campus at all, but I don't think they make up the majority of athletes in D1. As for the four at Bama, what they did certainly makes them unfit for any university, but how could anyone have known that in advance? To the best of my knowledge, none had ever had any significant behavior issues. After their arrest their former HS coaches all said they'd just never seen anything from those kids to make them expect something like this. There don't appear to have been any red flags from any of them before this happened.

As for Bama having zero standards when it comes to athletes' character and work in the classroom, that's definitely inaccurate. I understand a few people really hating us, but to make a statement like that is uncalled for and baseless. This recent event was our first major incident in almost 5 years. That stacks up well against virtually any team's record for character and discipline.

Academically, we've produced a Rhodes finalist, a Heisman winner on the dean's list, a Heisman finalist on the dean's list, a Campbell Trophy winner, and more Academic All-Americans over the past 5 years than the next two programs combined. Our graduation rates, APR scores, and gpa's are well above the national average. Those are all things to be proud of and hardly indicate zero standards.

If I was being hard on anyone it would be NCAA athletes, not just the SEC but I'm glad the "my, our, we" SEC defense mechanism kicked in just for that response. Seriously, even the most mild conference and/or Alabama discussions always seem to break down in to one single reason why there are problems. "Yall just haterz cuz we da best!!"

There are plenty of people who despise the SEC because they are consistent winners but I can provide you with plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with that. I'm a Gators fan as well as a ND fan, I grew up watching both. I love watching SEC football as much as I like watching ND games. The best athletes are there, and there is no debating that. But to say the SEC is only mildly worse at institution control regarding crime, poor academics, grad rates, oversigning etc. than any other conference is criminally ridiculous.

OK, it is difficult for colleges to screen athletes given that their personal records are unobtainable. Hypothetically speaking, lets say Alabama and Notre Dame are in a 2 way race for a 5 star athlete. When the recruiting process is in full swing and coaches are visiting the high school and what not. ND's evaluation process does everything possible to see if this kid is truly the material they're looking to have on the field. Considering the scrutiny of ND athletes compared to any other school in the nation, ND takes high risk by bringing the type of superstar athletes on to campus. Alabama on the other hand doesn't have to fear that. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that ND will usually weed out a headcase or two despite the talent or ability just by the total evaluation of the player through friends, family and the recruit himself. Do some squeeze through the cracks? Sure, but people that commit crimes like assault and robbery usually have a history by HS graduation.

Saying things like, "this is our first incident since 2008" like its an achievement should be alarming enough.

Anyway:

Fulmer Cup Dynasty - SAS Wiki

Humor aside, SEC has 4 in the top 10 already. Not to mention the FC total standings have 8 out of the top 15 teams being from the SEC.

Those accolades you seem to be proud of is like me telling a friend that I was proud of my son for getting into DeVry. Alabama doesn't even crack the top 20 for academic AAs.

So in conclusion, yeah the numbers kinda do support the accusations, but it doesn't matter because you can't blame any of these institutions for the NCAA being inept. It's just silly that Alabama fans and SEC fans pretend that they aren't at an advantage because of the way they conduct themselves.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

SEConvicts at it again

SEConvicts at it again

LSU Tigers RB Jeremy Hill arrested outside bar - ESPN

On probation for sexually assaulting a minor and now catches a battery charge. A real winner we have here. ****ing disgrace

 

[Zwidmanio]

Yeah...not knockin you for making the thread, but another day, another SEC arrest/scandal. Not surprising or particularly interesting at this point.

Edit: this comment looks stupid out of context. I'm glad the thread I posted in was combined.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Wow, shocking the sexual assault of a minor was punished so lightly, of course I dont know the facts of what happened but sounds like serious crime. Also I have never seen a DA go so far in saying a suspect is innocent till proven guilty and that a conviction is a big assumption.