Marcus Smart

Brooklyn

Found vbPlaza
Messages
622
Reaction score
24
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
169
Every man has a line, and this TT fan crossed Smart's. He's lucky he didn't get punched in the mouth.

Punishment fits the crime. Case closed.
 

IrishSteelhead

All Flair, No Substance
Messages
11,114
Reaction score
4,686
It is obvious no racial slur was used in that video. So now all I gather from this is that Smart not only has questionable character but is also a liar......
 

Brooklyn

Found vbPlaza
Messages
622
Reaction score
24
Every man has a line, and this TT fan crossed Smart's. He's lucky he didn't get punched in the mouth.

Punishment fits the crime. Case closed.

Completely disagree. Anytime you go into the stands, thats your season for me. Look at punishments around NCAA. St. John's (team I follow for basketball) suspended D'Angelo Harrison the rest of the year for essentially rolling his eyes repeatedly (it was "bad attitude" in general) in the midst of a chance to make the NCAA tournament. That was three games. The two shouldn't be equivalent.
 
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
169
Completely disagree. Anytime you go into the stands, thats your season for me. Look at punishments around NCAA. St. John's (team I follow for basketball) suspended D'Angelo Harrison the rest of the year for essentially rolling his eyes repeatedly (it was "bad attitude" in general) in the midst of a chance to make the NCAA tournament. That was three games. The two shouldn't be equivalent.

I'm not basing my opinion on the NCAA and their past punishments. Their consistency isn't one of their strong points, if they have any.
 

brick4956

Active member
Messages
579
Reaction score
225
Im sorry but you cant really say that smart or the ttu fan are lying it's the word of two individuals and just because something was heard on a camera there are 15000 fans in the stands and about anyone of those fans could have yelled something only smart and the ttu know what was said
 

Brooklyn

Found vbPlaza
Messages
622
Reaction score
24
I'm not basing my opinion on the NCAA and their past punishments. Their consistency isn't one of their strong points, if they have any.

I agree on the inconsistencies, but if you say the punishment fits the crime, then that means you think 3 games is just for going into the stands and getting in a physical altercation with a fan.
 

Brooklyn

Found vbPlaza
Messages
622
Reaction score
24
Im sorry but you cant really say that smart or the ttu fan are lying it's the word of two individuals and just because something was heard on a camera there are 15000 fans in the stands and about anyone of those fans could have yelled something only smart and the ttu know what was said

None of the fans around him, nor the camera guy who was about as close as Smart could hear what he said? Also, its very obvious on the video that "piece of crap" is audible and directly after that Smart turns and walks towards him.
 
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
169
I agree on the inconsistencies, but if you say the punishment fits the crime, then that means you think 3 games is just for going into the stands and getting in a physical altercation with a fan.

Yes that's what I believe. There are degrees of physical altercations, a mild shove does nothing for me. If he beat the dude senseless or caused him any injuries, then I could see a longer suspension. Not a love tap.
 

Brooklyn

Found vbPlaza
Messages
622
Reaction score
24
Yes that's what I believe. There are degrees of physical altercations, a mild shove does nothing for me. If he beat the dude senseless or caused him any injuries, then I could see a longer suspension. Not a love tap.

I guess we disagree. As soon as you start to differentiate it into degrees is where you get inconsistencies that you and I both hate. The action itself and not damage done or other factors as such, should be punished.
 

DillonHall

Tommy 12-2
Messages
3,093
Reaction score
1,737
Yes that's what I believe. There are degrees of physical altercations, a mild shove does nothing for me. If he beat the dude senseless or caused him any injuries, then I could see a longer suspension. Not a love tap.

Ooh we've got a tough guy on the site.
 

DillonHall

Tommy 12-2
Messages
3,093
Reaction score
1,737
lol absolutely not. Was just brought up differently I guess.

Yeah, gotcha. I just think if he'd shoved an opposing player the way he shoved the fan, it wouldn't be a big deal. But I just think it gets dangerous when players attack fans, and vice versa. Just glad that it doesn't involve ND...
 

BGIF

Varsity Club
Messages
43,946
Reaction score
2,922
Are you speaking legally or based on a definition of those terms?

I think there's a 99.99% chance Smart will never be convicted of either of those, let alone even charged. Which begs the question, if he's not even charged with battery or assault, did he then, in fact, commit battery or assault?


I speaking from first hand familarity with the the two terms having been through three criminal acitons on the subject in three different states including Texas where I once lived. As I'm aware the statutes differ from state to state, I read the Texas statute and read a couple of articles describing the situations, degrees, and penatlies in Texas prior to posting.

I agree there's a small chance of a conviction as I doubt anyone issues a complaint. He's gotten a 3 day suspension from the commissioner so it's apparent he did something wrong.

The video at CBS that shows the context better than the shorter one posted earlier today. I posted the link below. This video shows the play which took him off the court. It shows him going down and shows people is dark golf shirts putting out there hands to catch him/protect themselves. After he gets up and he starts to walk away, he turns around and goes back after Orr. When he strikes Orr with a two arm motion similar to a chest pass it's not clear to me whether he made contact with either of the women next to and partially in front of Orr. If he made contact OR if they felt threatened or intimidated they can swear out a complaint as well as Orr. Then Smart walks back on the court and while being restrained by a teammate makes a threatening gesture while mouthing something that from his facial expression probably wasn't "Have a nice day."

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gSGUudvIP_g?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I think the nature of the contact is relevant. If Smart had Jayru Camplell-ed the fan, I think there would be certain unanimous backing for season-long/career-long suspension, as well as legal action (well, I'm sure there would be some who may believe Smart is the victim of fetal alcohol syndrome and he, himself, is a victim...but I digress.). But say (and just go with me here), he walked up to a fan and literally barely grazed him with one finger, then he should have the book thrown at him as well? Players interact and touch fans all the time-- this is an undeniable fact. Players dive for loose balls into the stands, players high-five fans, players excrete bodily fluids on fans, etc. Some sort of distinction has to be made, so I think the nature of contact is relevant.

The nature fo the contact is relevant but it far from the "barely grazed him with one finger" you mischaracterize. Smart reared back and pushed out with both hands clearly knocking Orr off balance, back against his seat. A&B does not require that you cold cock the other person. You don't even have to strike a blow. It's based on contact without permission. There are different degrees of A&B ranging from a minor misdemeanor to a major felony .

Orr and any others involved could file criminal chargers or a civil suit. Again, I doubt they do.


Personally I don't recall having ever heard of Smart or Orr before this morning. I don't know why you raised the fetal alcohol syndrome red herring. I've commented on the actions in the video and the Texas statutes.

Oh and you may chose to look up "Beg the question", it's one of the most misunderstood and commonly misused expressions. I had a judge explain it to me untowardly while I was under oath giving expert testimony. You meant it raises a followup question while in logic it means a proposition that requires proof was assumed without the proof.

The video is proof of the contact. Prosecutors love UTube videos (and facebook, Instagram, twitter, ...). It makes things so much clearer to a judge or jury.
 
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
169
Yeah, gotcha. I just think if he'd shoved an opposing player the way he shoved the fan, it wouldn't be a big deal. But I just think it gets dangerous when players attack fans, and vice versa. Just glad that it doesn't involve ND...

Yeah I'm with you to a degree, and I don't know if it's the contrarian in me or what, but that's not an attack for me. If he jumps on the dude and starts throwing fists that's one thing, but a shove to let the guy know he was out of line is not an attack for me. Three games sounds about right to me, take your medicine. That's the way I see it.
 

anarin

They call me Chuck.
Messages
3,284
Reaction score
809
A: Player has a temper
B: Players team is losing and emotions are high
C: Fan calls player a piece of shit
D: Player lets emotions get the best of him and shoves fan
E: Player suspended 3 games
F: Fan apologizes and removes himself from all games

All makes perfect sense... NEXT!?!?!?!
 

Brooklyn

Found vbPlaza
Messages
622
Reaction score
24
E's where I have a problem with that anarin, but this has already been over discussed imo.
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
2,206
I speaking from first hand familarity with the the two terms having been through three criminal acitons on the subject in three different states including Texas where I once lived. As I'm aware the statutes differ from state to state, I read the Texas statute and read a couple of articles describing the situations, degrees, and penatlies in Texas prior to posting.

I agree there's a small chance of a conviction as I doubt anyone issues a complaint. He's gotten a 3 day suspension from the commissioner so it's apparent he did something wrong.

The video at CBS that shows the context better than the shorter one posted earlier today. I posted the link below. This video shows the play which took him off the court. It shows him going down and shows people is dark golf shirts putting out there hands to catch him/protect themselves. After he gets up and he starts to walk away, he turns around and goes back after Orr. When he strikes Orr with a two arm motion similar to a chest pass it's not clear to me whether he made contact with either of the women next to and partially in front of Orr. If he made contact OR if they felt threatened or intimidated they can swear out a complaint as well as Orr. Then Smart walks back on the court and while being restrained by a teammate makes a threatening gesture while mouthing something that from his facial expression probably wasn't "Have a nice day."

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gSGUudvIP_g?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




The nature fo the contact is relevant but it far from the "barely grazed him with one finger" you mischaracterize. Smart reared back and pushed out with both hands clearly knocking Orr off balance, back against his seat. A&B does not require that you cold cock the other person. You don't even have to strike a blow. It's based on contact without permission. There are different degrees of A&B ranging from a minor misdemeanor to a major felony .

Orr and any others involved could file criminal chargers or a civil suit. Again, I doubt they do.


Personally I don't recall having ever heard of Smart or Orr before this morning. I don't know why you raised the fetal alcohol syndrome red herring. I've commented on the actions in the video and the Texas statutes.

Oh and you may chose to look up "Beg the question", it's one of the most misunderstood and commonly misused expressions. I had a judge explain it to me untowardly while I was under oath giving expert testimony. You meant it raises a followup question while in logic it means a proposition that requires proof was assumed without the proof.

The video is proof of the contact. Prosecutors love UTube videos (and facebook, Instagram, twitter, ...). It makes things so much clearer to a judge or jury.

You're off your game today, BGIF. The first bolded was a hypothetical, posed to another poster. I never claimed Smart did such a thing, so I never mischaracterized anything.

As for the second bolded, did you miss the Jayru Campbell/WWE thread? Fetal alcohol syndrome was brought up in there. If you missed that thread, go back and scan through for a laugh. If you did see the thread, then you missed the connection.

You initially claimed that the video is proof of battery and that assault seems apparent. While I'm not sure what the statute is in Texas (yet you are), I still doubt anything will ever come from Smart's actions, in criminal or civil proceedings...and am willing to put a wager on it (real or of the v-variety). If there is proof, then surely we will see action taken against Smart, no? Otherwise, what's the point of you bringing this up in the first case? To demonstrate you know the letter of the law in Texas?
 

Luckylucci

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
27,769
Reaction score
10,145
Video Proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tqqJ_h7ak

Fan agreed to not go to home and away games this year anymore. Smart probably lied about racial slur being used, started a physical confrontation and gets three games. One punishment fits the crime, the other doesn't imo.

Yea this is a joke. I just heard the video and you can indeed hear him say piece of crap. Is that uncalled for, of course, but doesn't even remotely condone smart putting his hands on him. Terrible presedence set here.
 

Luckylucci

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
27,769
Reaction score
10,145
It is obvious no racial slur was used in that video. So now all I gather from this is that Smart not only has questionable character but is also a liar......

That's what makes this even worse for me. He blatantly lied about what was said. Trying to gain acceptance for what he did.
 

T Town Tommy

Alabama Bag Man
Messages
6,278
Reaction score
2,768
At no point should a player ever put his hands on a fan... no matter how low life the fan may be. If the fan is a problem, the team can ask that the fan be calmed down and if the behavior continues, the fan can and should be removed from the game.

I like Smart as a player but Smart crossed the line. Then he lied and tried to make it a racial issue to cover his tracks. That shows a lack of character on his part and is contradictory to past reports about him as a person. Hopefully he learns, matures, and leaves this type of behavior behind him.

Bottom line for me: if he has an issue with a low life fan during a college game he probably isn't going to like the NBA. In the NBA, even the home fans give it to their players from time to time. He has been suspended three games. Maybe not enough, but that's the punishment here. Time for the inept NCAA to look at situations such as this and make very harsh rules for both fan and player.
 
Last edited:

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,577
Reaction score
20,031
Yea this is a joke. I just heard the video and you can indeed hear him say piece of crap. Is that uncalled for, of course, but doesn't even remotely condone smart putting his hands on him. Terrible presedence set here.

That's what makes this even worse for me. He blatantly lied about what was said. Trying to gain acceptance for what he did.

At no point should a player ever put his hands on a fan... no matter how low life the fan may be. If the fan is a problem, the team can ask that the fan be calmed down and if the behavior continues, the fan can and should be removed from the game.

I like Smart as a player but Smart crossed the line. Then he lied and tried to make it a racial issue to cover his tracks. That shows a lack of character on his part and is contradictory to past reports about him as a person. Hopefully he learns, matures, and leaves this type of behavior behind him.

Bottom line for me: if he has an issue with a low life fan during a college game he probably isn't going to like the NBA. In the NBA, even the home fans give it to their players from time to time. He has been suspended three games. Maybe not enough, but that's the punishment here. Time for the inept NCAA to look at situations such as this and make very harsh rules for both fan and player.

CBS Sports (Tiki, Brandon & Dana) this morning said the guy was using the "N" word and others are backing that up. Apparently this guy started on Smart long before the cameras caught the altercation. Not defending the guy and think he needs to be disciplined. Just pointing out that we don't know everything that happened prior to the cameras catching it.
 

T Town Tommy

Alabama Bag Man
Messages
6,278
Reaction score
2,768
CBS Sports (Tiki, Brandon & Dana) this morning said the guy was using the "N" word and others are backing that up. Apparently this guy started on Smart long before the cameras caught the altercation. Not defending the guy and think he needs to be disciplined. Just pointing out that we don't know everything that happened prior to the cameras catching it.

Thanks for sharing. If that's the case, then I could see why Smart would be upset. The fan should have been reported and then escorted out of the arena. Maybe this could have all been avoided.
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,544
Reaction score
28,990
Is anyone going to pretend that at hockey and basketball games we haven't heard literally thousands of people heckle athletes? This is part of the game and comes with the proximity to the players. Has anyone here ever attended a Duke-Maryland game? I'm sure I've heard 100s of barbs worse than what this fan said (even if he DID use a racial slur at some point) about players, families, girlfriends, wives, etc. I don't understand the media trying to act like this isn't part of the game at EVERY arena for EVERY team for EVERY player.

There is literally nothing that fan could've said that justifies going into the stands and starting a physical altercation. To me, 3 games is a joke. There needed to be a precedent set here. I can't imagine any ND coach in any sport letting a player suit for the remainder of the season if they went into the stands seeking "justice."

Irishog77 has explained the flip side to this whole thing pretty darn well... the physical altercation itself was no more than a shove, no one got hurt, and the fan was presumably pretty out of line. So I understand giving someone the bare minimum. But any league/coach/school that cares about discipline, image, or sending the right message I think would've gone much further. I'm pretty embarrassed for the Big12 and Oklahoma State.
 

NDBoiler

The Rep Machine
Messages
4,455
Reaction score
1,826
Hopefully this situation will end up being helpful to both parties - Smart will learn that you can't let the fans get to you and that fat ass will learn that he is a 50 year old d-bag making himself feel important by yelling at college kids on a basketball court.
 

garyasher

Member
Messages
77
Reaction score
8
Yup, that's how it should turn out.

I really thinks fans should be cheering their own team and realize that the other team is made up of human beings as well. Our society really believes that it is ok to be mean spirited to others and to act out. "It is ok to say anything I want and its my right and you can't do anything about it."

Just look at the lady's face, she looks like "oh my God, you touched him" and now you are in big trouble." Even though the real POS just called him that. Its like they were baiting him.

I don't understand why its ok to say that at all, the fan started it and Smart finished it. I really don't condone violence, but that old dude should have to pay for his mouth. He is certainly a lot older than Smart and has been around the block a lot and he should have been the bigger person and lend a hand up instead of calling him a POS. I thought sorts were supposed to teach valuable life lessons. Nothing here.

We are a society of bullies and its getting worse. This guy is a bully and Smart got caught replying to the bully. That's how I see it.
 

nlroma1o

Well-known member
Messages
2,077
Reaction score
95
I don't think the shove was that vicious, but he should have been suspended for more than 3 games. I was thinking more in the range of 5-10 games. Obviously if it was a punch, it would have to be for much, much longer. But any type of aggressive contact with a fan is just a no no. They are setting a weak precident with this in my mind.

As for that big douche bag TT fan, Jeff Orr, his behavior is downright embarrassing. If I was TT he has to be banned. That's a black eye to the school any way you look at it. If Im the AD, I don't care if he is an alumnus, Im banning him from any and all school events.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,577
Reaction score
20,031
Is anyone going to pretend that at hockey and basketball games we haven't heard literally thousands of people heckle athletes? This is part of the game and comes with the proximity to the players. Has anyone here ever attended a Duke-Maryland game? I'm sure I've heard 100s of barbs worse than what this fan said (even if he DID use a racial slur at some point) about players, families, girlfriends, wives, etc. I don't understand the media trying to act like this isn't part of the game at EVERY arena for EVERY team for EVERY player.

There is literally nothing that fan could've said that justifies going into the stands and starting a physical altercation. To me, 3 games is a joke. There needed to be a precedent set here. I can't imagine any ND coach in any sport letting a player suit for the remainder of the season if they went into the stands seeking "justice."

Irishog77 has explained the flip side to this whole thing pretty darn well... the physical altercation itself was no more than a shove, no one got hurt, and the fan was presumably pretty out of line. So I understand giving someone the bare minimum. But any league/coach/school that cares about discipline, image, or sending the right message I think would've gone much further. I'm pretty embarrassed for the Big12 and Oklahoma State.

I get the heckling and I think that can be part of the home court advantage, but the guy shouldn't have been using the "N" word. Smart also shouldn't have pushed the clown. What if the fan retaliated? This could have escalated into something ugly like what happened in Detroit. Poor judgement on both parts.
 
Top