Making a Murderer (Spoilers)

[NorthDakota]

Free Steven! Justice! Wisconsin sucks.

 

[Rocket89]

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...06.07+-+Motion+for+Post-Conviction+Relief.pdf

Condensed version of the brief from Zellner.

 

[Rocket89]

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...06.07+-+Motion+for+Post-Conviction+Relief.pdf

Condensed version of the brief from Zellner.

Ryan Hillegas, ex-boyfriend accused of being the killer.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Ryan Hillegas, ex-boyfriend accused of being the killer.

Did he set any animals on fire? Did he attend Steven's "bonfire" that night? Did he place the call to the woman who was murdered to get her to Steven's house so he could then abduct her and murder her? Or did he just wait until she left after the photo session then tracked her down before she went to far, abduct her, murder her, incinerate her and bring her remains to Steven's house to finish the frame job?

I just want to make sure I understand the series of events.

 

[Rocket89]

Did he set any animals on fire? Did he attend Steven's "bonfire" that night? Did he place the call to the woman who was murdered to get her to Steven's house so he could then abduct her and murder her? Or did he just wait until she left after the photo session then tracked her down before she went to far, abduct her, murder her, incinerate her and bring her remains to Steven's house to finish the frame job?

I just want to make sure I understand the series of events.

Out of everything from this case the one thing that makes sense is that the prosecutions narrative and tale of the murder made no sense.

Still reading the motion but what I've seen so far it makes a lot more sense.

 

[Rocket89]

So, I've gone through Zellner's brief, here's what I think right now...

A large part of it make a ton of sense which is to be expected. The shredding of prosecutor Kratz, the ineffective counsel claims, Brady Violations, tunnel vision, and general wide ranging microscope put under the State's mishandling of the case all feel spot on. I'd imagine the average person who has taken some time to read about the case would feel like Avery deserves a new trial based just off these "injustices."

Hillegas as the killer seems to make the most sense. Sketchy ex-boyfriend, possibly stalking her, possibly abusive in the past, had way more motive to kill than Avery.

Some of the bits of suspected planted evidence seems like we have moved closer to conclusively proving via this brief that they were in fact planted. Due to expert opinion, the key found in Avery's home had far too much DNA on it and likely came from investigators stealing his toothbrush (not logged into evidence) and rubbing his DNA on the key. New evidence that some brain fingerprinting test proves the bullet in the garage never exited Halbach's head.

Most of storyline surrounding Hillegas' whereabouts, freedom of movement, and the means to pull off a murder again feels more accurate. He was never treated as a suspect, didn't have a job at the time, wasn't properly investigated, and if you believe the brief, was the mastermind behind fooling everyone into framing Avery.

The brief's narrative: Hillegas was disapproving of Halbach having sexual relationships with a few guys, including his roommate. Intercepts her at home (or somewhere) and kills her with a hammer or mallet. Finds the paperwork/receipt from Avery's and decides to move her body and car near the Avery compound. Almost gets caught by Avery and his brother. Waits for them to leave and breaks into his trailer to get blood. Stashes the car several hundred yards away from the salvage yard where dogs tracked scents. Creates a shallow grave for Halbach. Few days later decides to go back and try to plant the car again, this time with an accomplice. Burns the body (fearing his DNA on her?) and plants the vehicle/bones/personal effects near Avery's trailer. Then, takes the baton and leads investigators to the vehicle (first with one of the cops) and then later help "staging" the public discovery of the vehicle.

Here's where I still have questions...

The brief spends a lot of time on how Avery couldn't have been an idiot savant--doing hilariously stupid things--and then being this amazingly brilliant killer who cleaned up so much evidence. Yet, the brief kind of make Hillegas to be just like this, except maybe a 50% more believable story.

The blood in the car has always been the biggest piece of evidence by a mile. Zellner claims Hillegas snuck into Avery's trailer, soaked up blood in his bathroom sink, and planted in the RAV-4. Impossible? Maybe not, but highly, highly improbable. This feels about as fantastical as anything the prosecution spun during the trial.

It's hard for me to let go of the police NOT actively being involved in the murder. Or rather, that Avery was so enormously unlucky as to be framed (at least initially) but someone other than the police. What are the odds Hillegas killed her a couple hours after she left Avery's and was able to quickly realize this fact and go about framing Avery? I guess if he was a major stalker it's not too crazy, but still.

We still haven't seen all of the exhibits and evidence from Zellner. Is the brief enough to grant a re-trial? She's been talking a big game and IMO the brief isn't setting things on course for a complete exoneration of Avery, unless something like Hillegas breaking down before then and confessing happens.

I'd bet on her winning a re-trial just because the first trial was handled so poorly and she's proven to be an expert at ripping apart past theories and casting doubt on sentences. But even though Hillegas may be the killer and her story makes much more sense, it doesn't seem enough to convict him. And the reality of the situation is that, at least IMO, Avery didn't do it but now 10+ years later Zellner is going to have to do some tricky lawyer things to bring him justice but we'll always have the bad taste in our mouth about not knowing the real truth, or finding out who really killed her and why.

 

[Rocket89]

7th Circuit Court upholds decision to overturn Brendan Dassey's conviction.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/...ng-a-murderer-subject-brendan-dassey.amp.html

 

[wizards8507]

7th Circuit Court upholds decision to overturn Brendan Dassey's conviction.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/...ng-a-murderer-subject-brendan-dassey.amp.html

Wait a second. His conviction was overturned. Then the overturning was upheld. But he's still in prison!? WTF is that shit? I don't care if Wisconsin wants to appeal further. "Conviction overturned" should mean you go free until the point when and if the conviction is reinstated.

 

[phork]

Wait a second. His conviction was overturned. Then the overturning was upheld. But he's still in prison!? WTF is that shit? I don't care if Wisconsin wants to appeal further. "Conviction overturned" should mean you go free until the point when and if the conviction is reinstated.

Don't want murderers roaming freely I suspect.

 

[Rocket89]

Dassey's attorneys file motion asking he be released from custody | WLUK

Wisconsin AG will appeal again, seeking en banc review from the entire 7th Circuit and the Supreme Court is necessary.

The woooooorst.

 

[BobbyMac]

Dassey's attorneys file motion asking he be released from custody | WLUK

Wisconsin AG will appeal again, seeking en banc review from the entire 7th Circuit and the Supreme Court is necessary.

The woooooorst.

This douche right here: (Nice Used Car Sales Mgr goatee. Shave your face you jagbag)

I wish he'd get thrown in jail for the violation of Dassey's civil rights.

This country's legal system is completely OOC with their nonchalant attitudes that officials have regarding the detention and incarceration of American citizens.

 

[NorthDakota]

Dassey's attorneys file motion asking he be released from custody | WLUK

Wisconsin AG will appeal again, seeking en banc review from the entire 7th Circuit and the Supreme Court is necessary.

The woooooorst.

Does Wisconsin want the entire country to hate them? Seems like it. #FreeSteven #FreeBrendan #Wrestlemania

 

[koonja]

Never got around to watching this when it was a hot topic. Since beginning Sunday, I'm finished with episode 6.

What in the Mother F is going on...

 

[NorthDakota]

Never got around to watching this when it was a hot topic. Since beginning Sunday, I'm finished with episode 6.

What in the Mother F is going on...

Wisconsin is going on

 

[arrowryan]

Never got around to watching this when it was a hot topic. Since beginning Sunday, I'm finished with episode 6.

What in the Mother F is going on...

It's one of the most frustrating, infuriating shows I've ever watched. It's the only show that truly left me pissed off after each episode.

 

[koonja]

So in my 6 episode recap..

- The police found the vehicle TWO days before it was reported 'found' as evidenced by the officer calling in to verify the license plate was a 99 Rav 4. He proactively asked the dispatcher, suggesting he was looking at the vehicle.

- The blood evidence that was clearly tampered with and possibly extracted from the first conviction is absolutely insane. They haven't really touched on this year, so maybe more to come.

- The Key - 8 years she's had it, and not a trace of her DNA. But somehow, Avery's DNA is on it? Not to mention, they didn't find the key until like the '3rd' time searching the room?

- You're telling me a guy who allegedly hid the vehicle in the front of the lot behind some sticks, was careful enough to scrub the entire room of her DNA, when she was allegedly brutally you know what there, and her hair was cut? No hair? No skin? Not a drop of blood?

There's so much more. I'm losing my mind over this.

 

[NorthDakota]

So in my 6 episode recap..

- The police found the vehicle TWO days before it was reported 'found' as evidenced by the officer calling in to verify the license plate was a 99 Rav 4. He proactively asked the dispatcher, suggesting he was looking at the vehicle.

- The blood evidence that was clearly tampered with and possibly extracted from the first conviction is absolutely insane. They haven't really touched on this year, so maybe more to come.

- The Key - 8 years she's had it, and not a trace of her DNA. But somehow, Avery's DNA is on it? Not to mention, they didn't find the key until like the '3rd' time searching the room?

- You're telling me a guy who allegedly hid the vehicle in the front of the lot behind some sticks, was careful enough to scrub the entire room of her DNA, when she was allegedly brutally you know what there, and her hair was cut? No hair? No skin? Not a drop of blood?

There's so much more. I'm losing my mind over this.

Yeah fam it's the most angry I've ever been while watching a show

 

[arrowryan]

So in my 6 episode recap..

- The police found the vehicle TWO days before it was reported 'found' as evidenced by the officer calling in to verify the license plate was a 99 Rav 4. He proactively asked the dispatcher, suggesting he was looking at the vehicle.

- The blood evidence that was clearly tampered with and possibly extracted from the first conviction is absolutely insane. They haven't really touched on this year, so maybe more to come.

- The Key - 8 years she's had it, and not a trace of her DNA. But somehow, Avery's DNA is on it? Not to mention, they didn't find the key until like the '3rd' time searching the room?

- You're telling me a guy who allegedly hid the vehicle in the front of the lot behind some sticks, was careful enough to scrub the entire room of her DNA, when she was allegedly brutally you know what there, and her hair was cut? No hair? No skin? Not a drop of blood?

There's so much more. I'm losing my mind over this.

The best part about the key is that they "found" it just laying on the floor. It took you 3 times to find a key that was supposedly laying on the floor and not being hidden by anything? Those cops are a bunch of clowns lol

 

[BobbyMac]

The best part about the key is that they "found" it just laying on the floor. It took you 3 times to find a key that was supposedly laying on the floor and not being hidden by anything? Those cops are a bunch of clowns lol

They are not clowns, they are crooks.

 

[GowerND11]

The best part about the key is that they "found" it just laying on the floor. It took you 3 times to find a key that was supposedly laying on the floor and not being hidden by anything? Those cops are a bunch of clowns lol

"Hey guys! The key was right here ALL ALONG! Wouldn't you know, last place I looked."
-Cop, probably

 

[IrishLax]

Avery might've done it. In my mind there's a 0% chance Dassey was involved and it's an insane miscarriage of justice that he's still behind bars.

 

[arrowryan]

Avery might've done it. In my mind there's a 0% chance Dassey was involved and it's an insane miscarriage of justice that he's still behind bars.

I thought I recently read that he is getting a new trial. So things are looking good for him

 

[GowerND11]

Avery might've done it. In my mind there's a 0% chance Dassey was involved and it's an insane miscarriage of justice that he's still behind bars.

Definitely this. Avery very well could have done it. There is evidence to support this view, but if I were on the jury I wouldn't be able to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Too much that doesn't add up from the prosecution side. The story they weaved was so over the top IMO and made me believe he did it less, than if they went with a story of simply killing her, burning the body, cleaning, and disposing the car.

Dassey... just kills me inside.

 

[koonja]

Avery might've done it. In my mind there's a 0% chance Dassey was involved and it's an insane miscarriage of justice that he's still behind bars.

I thought I recently read that he is getting a new trial. So things are looking good for him

Dassey or Avery?

I guess at this point (episode 6), I don't feel bad yet for Dassey, and all of my fury is towards Avery's treatment.

 

[Irish#1]

I posted this before in this thread, but it might be worth repeating. A local TV reporter here in Indy used to work in that area and covered this case and every day of the trial. He said this show leaves a lot out that incriminates Avery.

 

[Irish Joe]

I posted this before in this thread, but it might be worth repeating. A local TV reporter here in Indy used to work in that area and covered this case and every day of the trial. He said this show leaves a lot out that incriminates Avery.

I definitely got worked up after originally watching this show....until I did some Google searching about what really happened in the trial. We're better off as a society with that man never seeing the light of day. This is also really irresponsible film making.

 

[tussin]

Dassey or Avery?

I guess at this point (episode 6), I don't feel bad yet for Dassey, and all of my fury is towards Avery's treatment.

Did you see the Dassey interrogation? It's heart breaking.

 

[koonja]

Did you see the Dassey interrogation? It's heart breaking.

I did. I guess I didn't realize he's in jail at this point.

 

[Rocket89]

I definitely got worked up after originally watching this show....until I did some Google searching about what really happened in the trial. We're better off as a society with that man never seeing the light of day. This is also really irresponsible film making.

I strongly disagree. A quick re-read of this thread from the time the show first aired is enlightening as to how weak the "they left out so much" from the doc cries were. A lot of the stuff you ended up Googling were click bait lies.

The documentary did its job even if it wasn't absolutely perfect.

And I'm not proud but I've read just about all the trial transcripts and police reports that have been released, with more still coming out. The deeper you go the worse things look for the state and prosecution.

In fact, the doc could've been far far worse in painting the state in a worse light and you could even say they showed some restraint in trying to be balanced.

 

[Irish Joe]

I strongly disagree. A quick re-read of this thread from the time the show first aired is enlightening as to how weak the "they left out so much" from the doc cries were. A lot of the stuff you ended up Googling were click bait lies.

The documentary did its job even if it wasn't absolutely perfect.

And I'm not proud but I've read just about all the trial transcripts and police reports that have been released, with more still coming out. The deeper you go the worse things look for the state and prosecution.

In fact, the doc could've been far far worse in painting the state in a worse light and you could even say they showed some restraint in trying to be balanced.

That may be, but much of the information out there is from known journalists writing for well-known publications and not simply a guy blogging in his parents' basement. Granted those are some of the worst offenders of click bait and doesn't do any favors for the journalism profession.