Little league Baseball

[dublinirish]

 

[Irish#1]

 

[pumpdog20]

An Iowa team made it to the LLWS

 

[dublinirish]

 

[BleedBlueGold]

“I think the word isn’t ‘specialize’; you are ‘professionalizing’ your kid early. You are exposing them to everything professionals have to deal with — I’m talking injury, time, schedule, everything,” said John Van Benschoten, a former MLB player and travel-baseball coach.

At what point will people stand up to idiots like this and yell, "THEY'RE F*****G KIDS!"

Professionalizing kids?! Cool. Piss off.

This strikes a personal nerve with me at the moment because of an ongoing "disagreement" between my wife's family (hardcore travel sports family) and us (anti travel sports). They're constantly accusing us of having more free time because we "just haven't graduated into that season of life yet." As if it's inevitable and there is no choice in the matter. Cool. Piss off.

 

[Wild Bill]

At what point will people stand up to idiots like this and yell, "THEY'RE F*****G KIDS!"

Professionalizing kids?! Cool. Piss off.

This strikes a personal nerve with me at the moment because of an ongoing "disagreement" between my wife's family (hardcore travel sports family) and us (anti travel sports). They're constantly accusing us of having more free time because we "just haven't graduated into that season of life yet." As if it's inevitable and there is no choice in the matter. Cool. Piss off.

I’ve been accused of far worse - just on this site alone.

 

[pumpdog20]

At what point will people stand up to idiots like this and yell, "THEY'RE F*****G KIDS!"

Professionalizing kids?! Cool. Piss off.

This strikes a personal nerve with me at the moment because of an ongoing "disagreement" between my wife's family (hardcore travel sports family) and us (anti travel sports). They're constantly accusing us of having more free time because we "just haven't graduated into that season of life yet." As if it's inevitable and there is no choice in the matter. Cool. Piss off.

Forgive the unsolicited opinion...

As parents who fell for the trap of travel sports for my two oldest boys, I'd advise to stick being anti travel.
Take lots of family vacations instead.

 

[ACamp1900]

Little League was phased entirely out here in favor of travel ball... I hate every minute of it and wish my daughter could just play Little League and leave it at that.

 

[Irish2155]

The little league across the street from the house I grew up in was shutdown many years ago.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I’ve been accused of far worse - just on this site alone.

Lol.
Yeah, I realize it doesn’t sound that bad on paper. But I left out the details of the accusation and what it actually pertained to because they weren’t really relevant to the point I was making. There’s a piece of property in my wife’s family that will eventually be passed down, and her travel-ball sister uses their schedule as a cop-out and then blames our “free time” for why we use it more, maintain it more, and will eventually end up with it. It’s been a festering sore for years and is finally reaching a boiling point. The whole “you’re just not in our same season of life” thing is their way of excusing their absence. Meanwhile, we’re still very busy, but we prioritize the property, vacations, etc in a way that they choose not to and I think it creates jealousy issues. I try to stay out of it.

Forgive the unsolicited opinion...

As parents who fell for the trap of travel sports for my two oldest boys, I'd advise to stick being anti travel.
Take lots of family vacations instead.

100%. That's what we do. We prioritize my wife's family's lake house and we prioritize taking lots of vacations together with our kids. Meanwhile all of our travel league family and friends hit us with the, "It must be nice" and it's like WTF...you chose that life.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

At what point will people stand up to idiots like this and yell, "THEY'RE F*****G KIDS!"

Professionalizing kids?! Cool. Piss off.

This strikes a personal nerve with me at the moment because of an ongoing "disagreement" between my wife's family (hardcore travel sports family) and us (anti travel sports). They're constantly accusing us of having more free time because we "just haven't graduated into that season of life yet." As if it's inevitable and there is no choice in the matter. Cool. Piss off.

It's a disease and it spreads easily. We're doing our best to balance but it isn't easy. There is always someone reminding you that if you don't get your kids the reps, they'll fall behind. Or they'll miss the magical window of development.

We've found a team that stays local, biggest travel is ~90 mins and doesn't want to work the boys to death. They strongly suggest playing other sports and keep the practices fun. We won't be going to the LLWS or winning a state ring, but the boys will play ball and get better.
Hope you guys can find a happy medium.

Rec ball fell apart by 4th grade. There was still some competition but all of the best players kept leaving.

 

[Irish#1]

It's a disease and it spreads easily. We're doing our best to balance but it isn't easy. There is always someone reminding you that if you don't get your kids the reps, they'll fall behind. Or they'll miss the magical window of development.

We've found a team that stays local, biggest travel is ~90 mins and doesn't want to work the boys to death. They strongly suggest playing other sports and keep the practices fun. We won't be going to the LLWS or winning a state ring, but the boys will play ball and get better.
Hope you guys can find a happy medium.

Rec ball fell apart by 4th grade. There was still some competition but all of the best players kept leaving.

Been there. Back around '93 one of our boys who was 10 at the time was asked to join a travel team. It was made up of kids from Little League. We declined because we were going on vacation. The coach tried the guilt approach, but we said no. Glad we did. This guy eventually dropped every kid but his own in favor of kids from other leagues trying to build his little super team.

The funny thing about travel ball is with the growth of travel ball and the crazy number of teams, they've basically turned it into Little League without the Williamsport oversight.

 

[Lord Jim]

It's a disease and it spreads easily. We're doing our best to balance but it isn't easy. There is always someone reminding you that if you don't get your kids the reps, they'll fall behind. Or they'll miss the magical window of development.

We've found a team that stays local, biggest travel is ~90 mins and doesn't want to work the boys to death. They strongly suggest playing other sports and keep the practices fun. We won't be going to the LLWS or winning a state ring, but the boys will play ball and get better.
Hope you guys can find a happy medium.

Rec ball fell apart by 4th grade. There was still some competition but all of the best players kept leaving.

I always thought the best thing for kids until 7th grade would be a sports league where the teams stay together but they change sports every three months or so. Maybe football or soccer in the fall, basketball until January, wrestling until spring, soccer or lacrosse in the spring, baseball in the summer. Take breaks between sports for the families to be together. No travel. It gives the kids a taste of many sports and prep the great athletes to concentrate on a sport once they hit puberty.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

It's a disease and it spreads easily. We're doing our best to balance but it isn't easy. There is always someone reminding you that if you don't get your kids the reps, they'll fall behind. Or they'll miss the magical window of development.

We've found a team that stays local, biggest travel is ~90 mins and doesn't want to work the boys to death. They strongly suggest playing other sports and keep the practices fun. We won't be going to the LLWS or winning a state ring, but the boys will play ball and get better.
Hope you guys can find a happy medium.

Rec ball fell apart by 4th grade. There was still some competition but all of the best players kept leaving.

We're super lucky as our house league is still very strong...but I feel the pull of travel every year for my almost 12 yr old.

I say this to share the point that even though our town still plays little league, friends vs. friends, big crowd of older/younger kids drinking slurpees behind the backstop, there is still such a strong pull to join one of the local, well-run travel clubs (there are three).

We ended up doing a hybrid where our top 25-ish kids are on two teams (A and B) and we play 15-ish tournament games after house season. Dads coach. We hire a few local high school/college-level coaches to help run practices for these teams. But you probably need to be in bigger population area and have some colleges close to pull that off. And even with that option, several of us almost chose travel.

One of my observations, which even my non-baseball wife noted, is that travel ball is more entertaining. It's a faster, more competitive game.

I think hybrid is the "right" answer until 7th or 8th grade but it's hard to pull off and little league needs to update the rule book.

Final, minor comment: As a few MLB guys have said regarding the current LLWS, high level 12 year olds pitching from 46' is ridiculous. Move it back!

 

[Free Manera]

Travel sports aren't the problem. Travel clubs that try to force early specialization are the problem. Kids need to play multiple sports for their development and health. Kids should play what is in season. Don't fall for the "elite" club telling you that baseball is a 12 month a year sport.

Early specialization causes overuse injuries, stunted/narrowly focused physical development, and psychological impacts due to being all-in on one thing when you're freaking 10 years old.

And if you really think the kid is gifted and want to get him to the pros, guess what? College coaches and pro scouts want multiple sport kids that have broad athleticism. They don't want a kid that plateaued at 16 because he already spent 5,000 hours honing his craft.

Plus, the proof is in the pudding. Look at what D1 and pro athletes did as kids. 90% of them played multiple sports.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

It's a disease and it spreads easily. We're doing our best to balance but it isn't easy. There is always someone reminding you that if you don't get your kids the reps, they'll fall behind. Or they'll miss the magical window of development.

We've found a team that stays local, biggest travel is ~90 mins and doesn't want to work the boys to death. They strongly suggest playing other sports and keep the practices fun. We won't be going to the LLWS or winning a state ring, but the boys will play ball and get better.
Hope you guys can find a happy medium.

Rec ball fell apart by 4th grade. There was still some competition but all of the best players kept leaving.

The people always reminding you that your kids will fall behind:
1) Partially correct. Partially wrong. Development comes from reps, we all know this. But to act like a 15 year old can't catch up because he didn't play travel league since age 7 is just flat wrong. If my kid wants to suddenly try out for the high school baseball team in 7 or 8 years, if he's good enough, he'll make the team. It's fear propaganda to suggest otherwise. (Yes, some of this is political, as I'm learning, but that is a different topic.)
2) Often times people say this because there is financial incentive for them to convince you that your kid "needs" this.
3) In my personal case, we hear this guilt trip often from family (cited in earlier posts) who, by their own admission, wish they weren't so involved, but feel obligated and trapped.
4) The thing my wife and I will undoubtedly struggle with is if/when our son asks to play travel ball because a) he wants to play better competition and b) wants to stick with his buddies. Those two areas, we're learning, will be difficult to dissuade. Like you said, rec ball will tend to fall apart around 4th or 5th grade. I'm not sure what we'll do.

A local travel team that focuses on fun and development, w/o the pressure of winning, money, rings, fame/notoriety, etc is perfect. We're lucky that a close friend of ours has an older son who plays ball like this. But only because they have a coach who volunteered to run that particular team. This guy has a parent meeting before the season starts, they vote on which weeks in the summer to have as "off weeks." And they only sign up for local tournaments, typically every other weekend, if possible. They never win these tournaments, but the kids have fun and the entire thing is relaxed and based around family, friends, and enjoying the sport.

 

[Lord Jim]

Travel sports aren't the problem. Travel clubs that try to force early specialization are the problem. Kids need to play multiple sports for their development and health. Kids should play what is in season. Don't fall for the "elite" club telling you that baseball is a 12 month a year sport.

Early specialization causes overuse injuries, stunted/narrowly focused physical development, and psychological impacts due to being all-in on one thing when you're freaking 10 years old.

And if you really think the kid is gifted and want to get him to the pros, guess what? College coaches and pro scouts want multiple sport kids that have broad athleticism. They don't want a kid that plateaued at 16 because he already spent 5,000 hours honing his craft.

Plus, the proof is in the pudding. Look at what D1 and pro athletes did as kids. 90% of them played multiple sports.

Truth about D1 athletes. It is 70% genetics, 20% work ethic of the kid and 10% skill development. You can't teach big and fast.

 

[NDPhilly]

In some real LLWS news - Kinley Rasmus was incredible last night. Has to be the best girl in LLWS history.

 

[MacIrish75]

I've seen too much bad basketball and baseball from teams of 7-14 year olds to put my kids into travel anything until at least their freshman year of high school. I'd rather spend money time with a skill trainer/hitting coach and reps at the local level. The worst part is many families quite literally mortgaging their future on the back of their child. I have literally watched kids who played travel basketball at $1500 a clip (on the low end) since they were 8, flame out and not even finish their high school careers...or worse, decide they'd rather get the "college experience" at State U, rather than try and continue to play their sport of choice at a DIII or NAIA. What good was that $15,000-$20,000 spent on travel the last decade?

My oldest daughter plays golf and tennis, so she does travel a bit to play in tournaments within a 1-2 hour drive, but obviously we pick and choose those based on our schedule.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

Plus, the proof is in the pudding. Look at what D1 and pro athletes did as kids. 90% of them played multiple sports.

Interesting find after I validated this: For elite athletes (D1 or professional league), it actually is approximately 90% that were multi-sport in high school. However, for MLB it is only 55%. Might be skewed by Latin American athletes as they most likely had less robust high school athletic departments but still interesting to me as I try to help my baseball kid.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

In some real LLWS news - Kinley Rasmus was incredible last night. Has to be the best girl in LLWS history.

Watched her pitch twice. She's tough! Also hits rockets.

 

[MacIrish75]

In some real LLWS news - Kinley Rasmus was incredible last night. Has to be the best girl in LLWS history.

She’s got the bloodlines. Colby Rasmus’s niece, and I remember her dad Cory having a few years in the bigs, too.

 

[Free Manera]

Interesting find after I validated this: For elite athletes (D1 or professional league), it actually is approximately 90% that were multi-sport in high school. However, for MLB it is only 55%. Might be skewed by Latin American athletes as they most likely had less robust high school athletic departments but still interesting to me as I try to help my baseball kid.

Correct about MLB. The stat applies to American athletes I believe.

In other countries, like DR for instance, the kids just get swept into baseball academies or soccer academies. It’s a completely different model of youth sports. BUT they spend the first 12 years of their lives playing stickball and soccer and tag on dirt fields until a baseball or soccer trainer notices them and brings them into an academy. They are not in a batting cage 12 months out of the year when they’re 9.

 

[dublinirish]

Correct about MLB. The stat applies to American athletes I believe.

In other countries, like DR for instance, the kids just get swept into baseball academies or soccer academies. It’s a completely different model of youth sports. BUT they spend the first 12 years of their lives playing stickball and soccer and tag on dirt fields until a baseball or soccer trainer notices them and brings them into an academy. They are not in a batting cage 12 months out of the year when they’re 9.

yeah case in point Messi's parents were factory workers and Ronaldo and his siblings begged outside McDonalds for people to give them their leftovers. Neither would have made it in the game giving their social status if they were raised in America

 

[RDU Irish]

You shouldn't need to be a D1 prospect to play sports growing up. It's like some people don't realize you can go to college without playing a sport. Interhall and whatnot are a lot of fun - in it for love of the game not the job.

Travel kids that don't play for their HS piss me off. Schools bend over backwards to accommodate them and brag on their college recruitment when they never even don a HS jersey. Just do correspondence GED or some shit.

 

[MacIrish75]

You shouldn't need to be a D1 prospect to play sports growing up. It's like some people don't realize you can go to college without playing a sport. Interhall and whatnot are a lot of fun - in it for love of the game not the job.

Travel kids that don't play for their HS piss me off. Schools bend over backwards to accommodate them and brag on their college recruitment when they never even don a HS jersey. Just do correspondence GED or some shit.

There is a growing number/trend of kids whose parents view them as "elite" to be pulled to homeschool so that they have infinitely more time to devote to their sport of choice.

 

[stlnd01]

Travel kids that don't play for their HS piss me off. Schools bend over backwards to accommodate them and brag on their college recruitment when they never even don a HS jersey. Just do correspondence GED or some shit.

The flip side though is that - depending on the sport and size of the school - it can be very hard to make a high school team if you don’t play club/travel by middle school.

My son loves baseball but only played town-level (bc he plays club soccer) and so had no chance of making even his school’s freshman baseball team, compared with kids who had years of club baseball training. Fortunately, our city has a decent Babe Ruth league where he kept playing for another two years. But he’ll never get the experience of putting on a high school uniform and being part of that kind of baseball team.

To do that, at bigger schools in major sports (except perhaps football where many kids start later), you basically have to be specializing by the time you’re 12 or so. Or I guess just be a phenomenal athlete.

 

[Irish2155]

The reps are way more important than playing on any travel team. You want your kid to hit, get their ass in the backyard on a T station.

 

[stlnd01]

There is a growing number/trend of kids whose parents view them as "elite" to be pulled to homeschool so that they have infinitely more time to devote to their sport of choice.

It's ridiculous. My son has a couple of friends who basically go to online high school so they can play soccer. They are good - MLS academy good - and their parents are serious people. But I'm not sure what the point is. A college scholarship? Great if you can get one. And then what?

 

[Wild Bill]

The people always reminding you that your kids will fall behind:
1) Partially correct. Partially wrong. Development comes from reps, we all know this. But to act like a 15 year old can't catch up because he didn't play travel league since age 7 is just flat wrong. If my kid wants to suddenly try out for the high school baseball team in 7 or 8 years, if he's good enough, he'll make the team. It's fear propaganda to suggest otherwise. (Yes, some of this is political, as I'm learning, but that is a different topic.)

I've seen too much bad basketball and baseball from teams of 7-14 year olds to put my kids into travel anything until at least their freshman year of high school. I'd rather spend money time with a skill trainer/hitting coach and reps at the local level.

The flip side though is that - depending on the sport and size of the school - it can be very hard to make a high school team if you don’t play club/travel by middle school.

My son loves baseball but only played town-level (bc he plays club soccer) and so had no chance of making even his school’s freshman baseball team, compared with kids who had years of club baseball training. Fortunately, our city has a decent Babe Ruth league where he kept playing for another two years. But he’ll never get the experience of putting on a high school uniform and being part of that kind of baseball team.

To do that, at bigger schools in major sports (except perhaps football where many kids start later), you basically have to be specializing by the time you’re 12 or so. Or I guess just be a phenomenal athlete.

With respect to baseball, I completely agree with the bolded portion. I understand BBG’s and Mac’s perspectives - there is a strong case against travel sports for all the reasons they mentioned and more.

That said, as a general rule, I think it's an uphill battle to make a competitive high school baseball team as a freshman if you have not played some form of travel ball. At that point, the question becomes whether it is worth playing travel ball during freshman year and hoping he develops quickly enough to make the team the following season. Even if you start in 7th or 8th grade you will likely be playing some form of catch up.

There are always exceptions. Some towns have better rec programs, some high schools are less competitive, and some kids are simply blessed with exceptional arm talent or a huge bat. But if your kid falls into that last category, you’ll probably end up playing travel ball far sooner than you think. Naturally talented kids want to compete with and against other talented kids.

We can shake our fists at the sky and complain about the current path, but it’s not going to change. A talented kid will usually have more fun and develop faster when he’s playing with and against kids who are just as good or better.

This is just one asshole's opinion and specific to baseball, though it's probably true in other sports. Football, for example, is different - size, speed and strength are king. I don’t give a shit how much football you played or what competition you faced as a kid. If you’re bigger, faster and stronger than everyone else, you can get your feet wet in 8th grade, physically develop as a freshman and dominate by sophomore year if you have a significant size or athletic advantage.

Baseball is much more skill-dependent, and those skills are developed through years of reps when kids are young. If you develop the skills early, you just have to hope the size, strength and athleticism follows. Waiting for the physical traits to show up first and then trying to develop the skills to compete will be really difficult and probably isn’t realistic.