Know Your Rights

[Irish Houstonian]

This is awesome -- dude completely schools cop on search & seizure and gun rights. It's not easy to stand up to cops, even when you're in the right.



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[ryno 24]

Thats awesome. People should know there rights and be able to act upon them.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

LOVE this video!

I'm so fvcking sick of people who exercise their right to bear arms being looked upon as "up to no good".
Good for him.

 

[IrishLax]

Where did this happen?

 

[BGIF]

Where did this happen?

"Portland" is on the door of the cruiser.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

as great as this is about knowing your rights--and this is no way in pro or con about gun laws--this was nothing more than a 1st year pushing buttons. however "correct" he was, the premise behind the execution, is flawed, imho.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

as great as this is about knowing your rights--and this is no way in pro or con about gun laws--this was nothing more than a 1st year pushing buttons. however "correct" he was, the premise behind the execution, is flawed, imho.

I understand your point but, I feel like the premise behind the stop was flawed.

 

[Irish#1]

I would question how was he carrying it? If citizens called the police he may have given the appearance of someone that looked suspicous.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

I understand your point but, I feel like the premise behind the stop was flawed.

that very well may be. and i think the supervisor made the appropriate call. however--some punk kid sitting in the law library thinking to himself, "i'm going to carry today, because i can, and here are the precedents to allow me. lets go mess with some cops!"

again--its an interesting experiment. and im happy the kid knows his rights, but there is no reason to make an example in this way. internet fame. i bet thanksgiving dinner sucks at this kids house.

 

[Buster Bluth]

**** the police.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I would question how was he carrying it? If citizens called the police he may have given the appearance of someone that looked suspicous.

Ding....Ding.....Ding....

Tell 'em what he's won, Johnny.....

 

[Rhode Irish]

**** the police.

I'm with this guy. Cops are the worst.

 

[PraetorianND]

If he doesn't have an Oregon concealed carry weapons permit then these cops should have arrested him.

In Portland it's against the law to open carry without a CHL. Also, Portland has a city ordinance against carrying a loaded firearm in a public place. Save me the 2nd amendment argument here because until it gets appealed to the SOTUS it's enforceable, like it or not (even though it probably shouldn't be per District of Columbia v. Heller).

I wonder how many 9-1-1 calls this jackass created by being self righteous. The cops were 100% respectful and logical and this guy went off on his 2nd amendment histeria. Yes, we get it, you think you can do whatever you want because the 2nd amendment says so.

Try taking your gun into a post office, school, or courthouse. If you really had balls and you wanted the chance to make a constitutional argument that would actually be the way to go. Greifing these cops to make yourself feel well educated is a joke and a waste of time and energy.

By the way, cops are normal people. My best friend is a cop and he tucks his two kids in every night the same as the rest of us. Oh, except his wife and kids have to wonder if some lunatic is going to ram him with their car or take a shot at him. Hell, he may never come home. Show some respect; cops do a super hard job and get no respect, credit, and little pay for the dangerous situations they put themselves in for the sake of others. Also, he's an Irish fan.

 

[phgreek]

...most of us were raised to respect cops...so yea thats hard to watch. Cops for the most part are good guys/gals...but City councils and Mayors KNOW our propensity to give police more than their due respect, and they use that...when political endeavors put pressure on cops to do certain things...say make it uncomfortable for people to legally carry then that respect is being abused. If the cop was manipulated into manipulating citizens...he deserves to be stood the hell down...and he shouldn't take it personally.

Its never as simple as the interchange you see on the screen...could be the guy was a jerk...could be the guy knew something we didn't about the political atmosphere...could be dumb luck.

 

[goldandblue]

Some cops are ok. Some have the nerd with a badge attitude and some are just plain smart *** pricks... The latter two usually outweigh the first.

Respect is earned, not automatically assumed because one has a badge.

 

[PraetorianND]

Some cops are ok. Some have the nerd with a badge attitude and some are just plain smart *** pricks... The latter two usually outweigh the first.

Respect is earned, not automatically assumed because one has a badge.

You can respect them for doing a dangerous and difficult job that benefits you. If they wrong you, then sure, don't respect them. But until they do, why wouldn't you respect them? I respect everyone until they give me a reason not to; maybe we're just wired differently.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I can't believe that so many children on this site appreciate this kind of foolish sophmoric behavior. "Schooling" a cop by flashing a gun around isn't something that impresses normal people. The cop was reasonable. With fools like this looking after American's rights it is no wonder so many of you are the victims of gun related crime. Canada is no police state but that smart a$$ would have been packed off to jail where I live. And the only people who would feel sorry for him would be the thugs. I would like to see this guy crossing a border with that attitude, he would be learning to fear the snapping sound of rubber gloves pretty damned fast.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I can't believe that so many children on this site appreciate this kind of foolish sophmoric behavior. "Schooling" a cop by flashing a gun around isn't something that impresses normal people. The cop was reasonable. With fools like this looking after American's rights it is no wonder so many of you are the victims of gun related crime. Canada is no police state but that smart a$$ would have been packed off to jail where I live. And the only people who would feel sorry for him would be the thugs. I would like to see this guy crossing a border with that attitude, he would be learning to fear the snapping sound of rubber gloves pretty damned fast.

Good thing he lives in America then, eh? We're all aboot the Constitution down here.

 

[Irish To The Core]

Good thing he lives in America then, eh? We're all aboot the Constitution down here.

It sounds more like you are all about childish displays of your rights under a 236 year old collection of laws designed for an 18th Century society. Just keep chanting that mantra when the next lunatic with constitutional rights blasts his way through a school/theatre/mall.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It sounds more like you are all about childish displays of your rights under a 236 year old collection of laws designed for an 18th Century society. Just keep chanting that mantra when the next lunatic with constitutional rights blasts his way through a school/theatre/mall.

I don't think any of them had the Constitutional right to blast their way through a school/theater/mall, actually. I'm pretty sure that is illegal.

 

[kmoose]

I understand your point but, I feel like the premise behind the stop was flawed.

I feel like the premise was sound. A citizen called in to report an extremely rare, potentially deadly, situation (a person openly carrying a gun on the street). The police had no choice, at that point, but to make contact with the individual and see if there was any threat to public safety. If they had done nothing, and that guy had been a whacko who shot up a supermarket? The police would have been crucified for not responding to a citizen complaint about a man openly carrying a firearm on the street. As it was, the officer made contact with him, determined that there was no threat, and allowed him to continue on his way.......... WITH the firearm. His rights were not violated at all.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I feel like the premise was sound. A citizen called in to report an extremely rare, potentially deadly, situation (a person openly carrying a gun on the street). The police had no choice, at that point, but to make contact with the individual and see if there was any threat to public safety. If they had done nothing, and that guy had been a whacko who shot up a supermarket? The police would have been crucified for not responding to a citizen complaint about a man openly carrying a firearm on the street. As it was, the officer made contact with him, determined that there was no threat, and allowed him to continue on his way.......... WITH the firearm. His rights were not violated at all.

They took his gun temporarily. He didn't consent to any seizures. So 99% okay, no?

 

[swole1]

How do you know it wasn't Portland in Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Tennessee, or Texas?



Did I miss something? Was he walking around with gun-in-hand or waving it around?



The Bill or Rights is hysteria now?



Whatever you want? Hardly.



Well that would be illegal sooooo.....



A lot of what cops do is a waste of time and energy you know.



Then they should act like it.



You should add "the same as the rest of us" on that last sentence too. Cops aren't the only ones who fear those things.



Little pay?! They have terrific pensions and for the education needed to become a cop the pay is fine.

Dangerous situations? Most cops don't go near any danger. People know that if you kill a cop, you're dead. All of the cops outside of the ghetto deal with as much danger as the rest of us, and we don't all have great pensions.

Maybe we should show some respect to jobs that are actually more dangerous. Like loggers, pilots, fishers, iron workers, garbage collectors, farmers, roofers, electric line operators, truck drivers, miners, construction workers, warehouse workers, industrial machinery maintainers, and taxi cab drivers. Cops are just like the rest of us, indeed.

The "no respect" thing really gets me. There are thousands of cops out there fighting the good fight against real crime, and are near the top of my list for respect. But I'd bet it's a 25:1 ratio for the cops who push paper in the suburbs, issue traffic tickets, and bust college kids for drinking or smoking some weed. Those people are at the very bottom of my list of respect

I don't recall movements of respect for those other hazardous jobs I listed. I have seen them for cops.

Firemen are a different story, I've never met a fireman who was an ******* and wanted you to know that "he had the power."

In conclusion, **** the police.

Great post

 

[kmoose]

They took his gun temporarily. He didn't consent to any seizures. So 99% okay, no?

I guess it's semantical, but I don't consider the police holding a weapon for the few minutes it takes them to establish that the man is not a threat to be a "seizure". It's not like they confiscated said weapon and held it for days.

 

[Opus]

Little pay?! They have terrific pensions and for the education needed to become a cop the pay is fine.

Dangerous situations? Most cops don't go near any danger. People know that if you kill a cop, you're dead. All of the cops outside of the ghetto deal with as much danger as the rest of us, and we don't all have great pensions.

Maybe we should show some respect to jobs that are actually more dangerous. Like loggers, pilots, fishers, iron workers, garbage collectors, farmers, roofers, electric line operators, truck drivers, miners, construction workers, warehouse workers, industrial machinery maintainers, and taxi cab drivers. Cops are just like the rest of us, indeed.

The "no respect" thing really gets me. There are thousands of cops out there fighting the good fight against real crime, and are near the top of my list for respect. But I'd bet it's a 25:1 ratio for the cops who push paper in the suburbs, issue traffic tickets, and bust college kids for drinking or smoking some weed. Those people are at the very bottom of my list of respect

I don't recall movements of respect for those other hazardous jobs I listed. I have seen them for cops.

Firemen are a different story, I've never met a fireman who was an ******* and wanted you to know that "he had the power."

In conclusion, **** the police.

I won't disagree with you that Police Officers earn decent money and do have pension programs. However not all of them are terrific. And there are many agencies that are now requiring college degrees to either be hired or to be promoted within the agency.

I worked for a major Sheriff's Office for over 20 years and am now working for a city Police agency and during my career I have attended 5 funerals for Officers killed in the line of duty. Not one of them was killed in a ghetto.

You believe that most cops don't go anywhere near danger. You really believe that making a traffic stop at 2 am and approaching the car that may have multiple people inside knowing nothing other than who the car is registered to isn't dangerous? How about anytime an Officer responds to a domestic violence call? Or a shots fired call? Or deals with any person who is mentally unstable, drunk or on drugs or is just like you and hates police?

Yes, there are other careers that have danger related to their work. However I would disagree that all of your examples are more dangerous.

So based upon your view Officers who enforce laws that they have sworn to uphold are not worthy of respect because they are issuing traffic tickets or busting college kids for drinking and smoking weed. I would have less respect for a person, in any job, that didn't do their job. Expecting an Officer to ignore traffic violations or not "bust" college kids for drinking and smoking weed is asking them not to do their job. 99% of the Officers I've worked with have not gone out of their way to hassle anyone. If someone is getting a traffic ticket or being "busted" it's for a good reason. Just last night we arrested a guy for DUI after he ran his car into a light pole. It was his second DUI in less than a month. But based on your view we shouldn't have arrested him because he's only a 20 year old college kid.

And by the way during my career I've dealt with many Firemen. The vast majority of them are great. However, there are some who absolutely believe that their **** doesn't stink. Every profession has people just like this.

 

[BGIF]

Unless the police department has drastically changed the logo on the cars, in the last year or so since I have lived there, this was not Portland, OR. More likely Portland, Maine, I would think.

This is what a Portland, OR police cruiser looks like:
Portland police to reform dealings with mentally ill suspects - Los Angeles Times

Portland, Or has changed the paint job on their cars in the past few years per a google search.

The cars in the video look to me to be Portland, ME. Note the color scheme, style of lettering, low silhouette roof lights, and logos on both the front and rear fenders of the vehicles in the video and at this site showing various Portland, ME police vehicle are similar.

police cars

 

[BGIF]

This is awesome -- dude completely schools cop on search & seizure and gun rights. It's not easy to stand up to cops, even when you're in the right.

Knowing your rights is important. So is knowing what state you are in as the laws vary significantly from state to state. A supreme court decision that overturns one state's law doesn't invalidate the other 49 states as the one overturned may have been for a vague statute while the others may be specific enough to comply with SCUS rulings.

In the video in this thread neither the state nor the date is stated to confirm what's applicable.

24 states have Stop and Identify laws. (Stop and Identify Statutes wiki) Of those, 5 have an explicit obligation to supply I.D. Another 14 states are less forceful in wording but allow police to ask.

Keep in mind pedestrians and drivers are treated differently. Drivers are required by their drivers license law to furnish I.D. Driving is a privilege not a right.

In this video it seems the individual was a pedestrian.

I believe, see previous post, that this is Portland, ME. Maine allows open carry with ammo BUT you must NOT have a round in the chamber. It would seem that a police officer could reasonably asked to see the gun to confirm it does not have a round in the chamber. Refusal would then seem reasonal for the P.O. to ask for I.D. Self incrimination is a valid right to Remain Silent but not to Refuse. If you're a felon you would't want to give that away.

BTW from the video was it known if the gun was loaded?

It's also unknown if the individual had gotten out of a vehicle. If so, a Concealed Permit would be required unless certain provisions are met such as carrying an unloaded gun in the trunk of your car. (Gun laws in Maine wiki)

In the video if I recall correctly, the P.O. says they received a call about someone with a gun. Someone walking down the street open carry should be O.K. But suppose someone observing a car parking and the driver walking to the trunk, taking out a weapon, loading it and then walking down the street with it.

I'm a gun owner and I'd call the cops in a heartbeat and report suspicious behavior if I observed that although in Maine that appears to be legal conduct. How are the cops to respond to that other than to make an inquiry?

Another issue not dealt with in the video are Loitering Statues (see wiki there as well) statutes vary from state to state.

Was the person walking at a regular pace down the sidewalk? Or had he been standing outside a liquor store for the past 15 minutes.

In open carry is there a difference between a gun in a holster and one in your hand?

 

[JadeBrecks]

Can I ask those who are against the person making the video the difference between these two situations. First the guy in this video when confronted by police officers flexes his knowledge of the law to make himself feel bigger, better, etc. Second when a cop pulls me over for speeding and he flexes his knowledge of the law to make himself feel bigger, better, etc. What is the difference? They are getting dished back what cops dish out.
"Openly carrying" a firearm can be in a holster highly visible. If the law in that area doesn't prohibit him he can carry it in his waste band, in a back pocket, or however he chooses if it isn't illegal. If he was physically carrying it illegal don't worry the cops would have got him on it.
For all those who are jumping on people saying "Fvck the cops" please read this part. I was raised to respect police officers. I grew up doing so. I have only had a few interactions with them myself but here they are. I have been pulled over for speeding. (nothing highly criminal in the area of 5-10 over) Each time I have been pulled over I have been very respectful calling them "Officer", hands at 10 and 2 when they approach, warning them of my movements before I do them and why Im doing them (getting paperwork), and I haven't ever back talked. Each time the officer made me feel like I was a worthless piece of crap. Each time they flex their knowledge and tell me what all they could do to me if they wanted. As an example I had a cop threaten to impound my car ticket me and make me walk home because of the CLEAR licence plate protector that was part of my decorative licence plate frame. The other example and the only time I needed the police was when someone stole $3400 from me. It was about 4 months before my wedding and I really needed that money. When I went down to the police station the officer that took my statement told me "It sucks to be you" and told me they wouldn't look into it. I had the person, where they lived witnesses, and had it typed into "legal format" and the prosecutor turned me down. The last one was not to me but my buddy. A cop made him get out of his booth at a restaurant and started giving him crap about openly carrying his firearm. (legal in Indiana with a carry permit) When my friend informed the police officer that he was properly permitted, the establishment he was in didn't prevent it, and the law allowed it the police officer started to yell at him and tell him he was a piece of crap for doing so. After reading this these are my encounters with cops. Not one of them was pleasant or even decent. How can you fault someone for loosing their respect for cops and saying fvck cops when these are their only encounters?
Im sick of people assuming I am committing a crime or up to no good when carrying my firearm. Trust me when I guy reaches for a box on a shelf at wal-mart, leaves his table and the restaurant, or is walking down the street with their gun on their hip they aren't the ones to worry about. Its the ones who pull it as soon as they see you that you need to worry about. And if they are on their way to commit a crime trust me they won't let you see it before they get there.
Lastly to those who say the cops would have been "crucified" if they hadn't done anything this part is for you. If the cops get a call about someone with a gun then yes they should check it out. They should drive, walk, ride on over there. When they find the person that the complaints are about they can judge if they are complaints of illegal activity or not. If the man isn't doing anything illegal, doesn't want to talk, and isn't required by law then you leave him be. Anyone who complains about what you did you can tell them you couldn't do anything to someone not committing a crime. In the US you are innocent until proven guilty not the other way around. That's what makes us great. We don't have to explain ever single legal action to someone if we don't want to.

 

[Grahambo]

Terry v Ohio allows 'Stop and Frisk' based upon reasonable suspicion. Under the Terry ruling, a police officer may stop and detain a person based on reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion is a step lower then probable cause meaning police don't need a whole lot to go off of but need to articulate their reasoning. Again, being dispatched is enough for reasonable suspicion but the totality of the circumstance is a determining factor.

Regardless if it is legal to carry or not, if a person is acting suspicious then by law he can be stopped and questioned. If the officer was called to that location and the 'law' student fit the description of the reported 'suspicious' person, then again, he is being stopped legally. When that occurs, according to Terry v Ohio, he can be frisked if the officer determined through the totality of the circumstance. Yes, the officer can check his weapon (assuming its legal to carry) and check to ensure that the law is being followed.

This is assuming what the officer said was correct in that he was dispatched to a report of a suspicious person. If he was just driving around and stopped the guy (and its legal to carry) and he wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary, then no, the officer was wrong.

JADE: Sorry that happened to you with the money. No excuse for that in my book. Some really are tools and I work with some where you just look at them and shake your head.

BB: Grow up dude. The whole 'F the police' bit is immature and beneath you. Definitely thought better of you before that.

 

[NDohio]

Can I ask those who are against the person making the video the difference between these two situations. First the guy in this video when confronted by police officers flexes his knowledge of the law to make himself feel bigger, better, etc. Second when a cop pulls me over for speeding and he flexes his knowledge of the law to make himself feel bigger, better, etc. What is the difference? They are getting dished back what cops dish out.
"Openly carrying" a firearm can be in a holster highly visible. If the law in that area doesn't prohibit him he can carry it in his waste band, in a back pocket, or however he chooses if it isn't illegal. If he was physically carrying it illegal don't worry the cops would have got him on it.
For all those who are jumping on people saying "Fvck the cops" please read this part. I was raised to respect police officers. I grew up doing so. I have only had a few interactions with them myself but here they are. I have been pulled over for speeding. (nothing highly criminal in the area of 5-10 over) Each time I have been pulled over I have been very respectful calling them "Officer", hands at 10 and 2 when they approach, warning them of my movements before I do them and why Im doing them (getting paperwork), and I haven't ever back talked. Each time the officer made me feel like I was a worthless piece of crap. Each time they flex their knowledge and tell me what all they could do to me if they wanted. As an example I had a cop threaten to impound my car ticket me and make me walk home because of the CLEAR licence plate protector that was part of my decorative licence plate frame. The other example and the only time I needed the police was when someone stole $3400 from me. It was about 4 months before my wedding and I really needed that money. When I went down to the police station the officer that took my statement told me "It sucks to be you" and told me they wouldn't look into it. I had the person, where they lived witnesses, and had it typed into "legal format" and the prosecutor turned me down. The last one was not to me but my buddy. A cop made him get out of his booth at a restaurant and started giving him crap about openly carrying his firearm. (legal in Indiana with a carry permit) When my friend informed the police officer that he was properly permitted, the establishment he was in didn't prevent it, and the law allowed it the police officer started to yell at him and tell him he was a piece of crap for doing so. After reading this these are my encounters with cops. Not one of them was pleasant or even decent. How can you fault someone for loosing their respect for cops and saying fvck cops when these are their only encounters?
Im sick of people assuming I am committing a crime or up to no good when carrying my firearm. Trust me when I guy reaches for a box on a shelf at wal-mart, leaves his table and the restaurant, or is walking down the street with their gun on their hip they aren't the ones to worry about. Its the ones who pull it as soon as they see you that you need to worry about. And if they are on their way to commit a crime trust me they won't let you see it before they get there.
Lastly to those who say the cops would have been "crucified" if they hadn't done anything this part is for you. If the cops get a call about someone with a gun then yes they should check it out. They should drive, walk, ride on over there. When they find the person that the complaints are about they can judge if they are complaints of illegal activity or not. If the man isn't doing anything illegal, doesn't want to talk, and isn't required by law then you leave him be. Anyone who complains about what you did you can tell them you couldn't do anything to someone not committing a crime. In the US you are innocent until proven guilty not the other way around. That's what makes us great. We don't have to explain ever single legal action to someone if we don't want to.

What are your thoughts on the two people in this video exchange? Which one was more respectful?