Kelly's gameplan was terrible

[tankjeep]

tank, where you been hiding?

wassup?!? man, coaching and work have been taking up most of my time along with my 4 year old girl. life is good though. hope all is well with you and everybody else here.

 

[wizards8507]

are you just being the devil's advocate?

Yes and no.

"Bench Golson and put in Malik" - Devil's advocate
"Golson isn't the greatest" - Honest opinion

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yes he can't run the zone read. Which makes no sense, because it's so simple. If the de/olb crashes down QB keeps it, if they stay at home hand off to the RB . But he makes the wrong decision every time.


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Which makes me believe it isn't a zone read, but rather a called run.

 

[kmoose]

Which makes me believe it isn't a zone read, but rather a called run.

It sure looks like a zone read, with the way Golson hangs on to the ball for a second or two, while handing it off. You might be right, but if so, it's a really weird handoff.

 

[TDHeysus]

Benching Golson for MZ is really a thing now? Bench a dude with a cannon most CFB QBs wish they had, that almost any CFB team would love to have behind center, for a dude that has yet to play a meaningful snap in a game with 3 games left in a season. And 2 of the 3 teams left are worthy opponents.

I'm going to stop just short of saying 'bench golson', but I will say ND cannot win with golson turning the ball over. He can have a cannon arm, he can chuck the ball all around the field, he can extend plays, he can make plays.....and it all gets negated with the TO's.

lose with golson, but the offense puts up 40+; or lose with Zaire and the offense puts up 20+. the end result is the same, except in that Zaire is an unknown quantity at this time, he may come in and win games; we don't know if he is a turnover machine at this time, with golson we know he is.

this post may be a bit harsh, but the disappointment with the ASU game is still very raw with me.

 

[Ndaccountant]

It sure looks like a zone read, with the way Golson hangs on to the ball for a second or two, while handing it off. You might be right, but if so, it's a really weird handoff.

I can't remember where, but I do remember this being discussed in 2012 and Kelly basically said they weren't allowing him to keep it unless they called it. The idea being they could utilize the threat of the run to tie up the free DE on the inside runs. I think Tommy basically did the same thing, but since he was slower than a South Bend police officer, it didn't really do any good.

 

[kmoose]

I can't remember where, but I do remember this being discussed in 2012 and Kelly basically said they weren't allowing him to keep it unless they called it. The idea being they could utilize the threat of the run to tie up the free DE on the inside runs. I think Tommy basically did the same thing, but since he was slower than a South Bend police officer, it didn't really do any good.

Ah, ok. I thought you meant that the play was a designed handoff to the running back. I think maybe Kelly is discouraging him from pulling the ball, because he can't reliably hold on to the ball without coughing it up. But I think you have to give him the option to at least pull the ball, run 7 yards downfield, and run out of bounds, if the defense leaves the perimeter wide open.

 

[wizards8507]

I can't remember where, but I do remember this being discussed in 2012 and Kelly basically said they weren't allowing him to keep it unless they called it.

I'm not sure if that was because he didn't have the ability to make the read yet, or because he was too skinny. Kelly mentioned Golson needing to build up some "armor" numerous times in 2012. I'd have to imagine he's still skinnier than Kelly would like to see, which is extra disappointing with the year off to work out.

 

[Irish#1]

I can't remember where, but I do remember this being discussed in 2012 and Kelly basically said they weren't allowing him to keep it unless they called it. The idea being they could utilize the threat of the run to tie up the free DE on the inside runs. I think Tommy basically did the same thing, but since he was slower than a South Bend police officer, it didn't really do any good.

I think they need to incorporate it once or twice early in the game to give the defense one more thing to think about. This also keeps the blitz from being effective. Of course I say that, Golson keeps it and fumbles. It's a conumdrum!

 

[Ndaccountant]

I'm not sure if that was because he didn't have the ability to make the read yet, or because he was too skinny. Kelly mentioned Golson needing to build up some "armor" numerous times in 2012. I'd have to imagine he's still skinnier than Kelly would like to see, which is extra disappointing with the year off to work out.

I think he size was/is still a concern. He just doesn't have the upper body build to take those hits on a consistent basis. He truly is built more like a point guard than a QB. I think he ability to read it isn't a problem, more his stature is.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Based on available evidence, I think Golson may be incapable of running the Zone Read competently, but I never argued that he's fundamentally incapable of correctly reading a blitz or holding onto the ball. Conversely, we know that Golson can do both of those things very well, as he's demonstrated many times in the past. He simply didn't do them well against ASU, which does not indicate a schematic or play-calling failure on Kelly's part.

To be fair. I don't think ANYONE on the team runs the zone read well, Oline, Running Backs and obviously Golson. Watch the 2013 Buckeyes run it with Braxton. It was almost impossible for him to make a mistake. I do think Golson has serious issues with it, but at times he does have a serious dilemma in my opinion. Middle gets stuffed and a DB or DE crashing down. you are pretty well F***ed at that point.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

To be fair. I don't think ANYONE on the team runs the zone read well, Oline, Running Backs and obviously Golson. Watch the 2013 Buckeyes run it with Braxton. It was almost impossible for him to make a mistake. I do think Golson has serious issues with it, but at times he does have a serious dilemma in my opinion. Middle gets stuffed and a DB or DE crashing down. you are pretty well F***ed at that point.

I disagree with this. On TV broadcast it has been pointed out numerous times that he made the "wrong read".

 

[Whiskeyjack]

To be fair. I don't think ANYONE on the team runs the zone read well, Oline, Running Backs and obviously Golson. Watch the 2013 Buckeyes run it with Braxton. It was almost impossible for him to make a mistake. I do think Golson has serious issues with it, but at times he does have a serious dilemma in my opinion. Middle gets stuffed and a DB or DE crashing down. you are pretty well F***ed at that point.

As long as the opposing DTs aren't immediately penetrating and blowing up the play, the middle getting clogged shouldn't matter. All Golson has to do is read the backside DE. If he crashes on the RB, Golson pulls and cuts back for easy yardage. If the DE hesitates to contain Golson, he hands off to the RB. Very easy way to option off a defender and gain a numerical advantage at the point of attack. But for some reason, Golson seems incapable of doing that. He always hands off, regardless of what the DE is doing, which is why we've barely seen it this year. Not to mention that when he keeps it (on designed QB runs), he has a 50% chance of fumbling it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I disagree with this. On TV broadcast it has been pointed out numerous times that he made the "wrong read".

Yup. It's very frustrating. If Golson could simply learn (1) how to carry the football; and (2) how to read the backside DE, our offense would immediately become a lot more dangerous. And those are both easy things to learn! Every spread-based team in the country utilizes the Zone Read, and every team in the country teaches basic ball security techniques. Why can't Golson pick those two things up?

 

[Wild Bill]

Eric Crouch played at a similar weight and was one of the best rushing QBs I can remember watching.

I think the issue is EG doesn't like contact. Some players like contact and others do not. You can't coach it and you can't change it. It's just a guess on my part by the way he runs and he avoids contact if possible. I'm not suggesting he's weak or soft or he won't run it if needed. I'm merely suggesting that he doesn't like contact and it's hard to run a read option if your QB doesn't like contact.

 

[wizards8507]

He always hands off, regardless of what the DE is doing, which is why we've barely seen it this year.

Is it your best guess that these are actual read option plays and Golson is electing to hand it off? I was under the impression that it was more of a read option LOOK that was always designed to go one way or the other.

 

[kmoose]

Is it your best guess that these are actual read option plays and Golson is electing to hand it off? I was under the impression that it was more of a read option LOOK that was always designed to go one way or the other.

According to Kelly, they are using the entire playbook, this year. So I would have to assume that at least some of those were actual zone read plays.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I disagree with this. On TV broadcast it has been pointed out numerous times that he made the "wrong read".

I'm not saying Golson doesn't make the wrong read 9/10. But I don't think his on the fly decisions are as easy as we are making them seem.

This is a good video break down of last years Oregon Vs. Stanford game. I would like to think that Golson could make these reads. Because he has not had these simple of decisions to make.

Oh! before everyone jumps on this train...I know Oregon is a "run" first spread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysiodhatd08

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Is it your best guess that these are actual read option plays and Golson is electing to hand it off? I was under the impression that it was more of a read option LOOK that was always designed to go one way or the other.

I think we've run a few real Zone Reads that promptly got blown up because the DE crashed on the RB but Golson handed it off anyway. We've also run several fake Zone Reads which were pretty clearly designed QB runs. When your QB can't run the Zone Read but your spread-based rushing attack still depends on the defense respecting it anyway, faking it is the best you can do.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Eric Crouch played at a similar weight and was one of the best rushing QBs I can remember watching.

I think the issue is EG doesn't like contact. Some players like contact and others do not. You can't coach it and you can't change it. It's just a guess on my part by the way he runs and he avoids contact if possible. I'm not suggesting he's weak or soft or he won't run it if needed. I'm merely suggesting that he doesn't like contact and it's hard to run a read option if your QB doesn't like contact.

Maybe it's the shoulder pads, but their stature looks very different to me.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Maybe it's the shoulder pads, but their stature looks very different to me.

Spaghetti arms

 

[wizards8507]

Maybe it's the shoulder pads, but their stature looks very different to me.

Yeah, might have something to do with the bulging veiny biceps that would make Koon faint. Golson lacks those.

 

[Wild Bill]

Maybe it's the shoulder pads, but their stature looks very different to me.

Eric Crouch Biography - Huskers.com - Nebraska Athletics Official Web Site

Everett Golson Bio - UND.COM - University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site

They're listed at the same weight. Crouch hit biceps harder for all the ladies in Lincoln.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I just don't believe golson is 200 lbs. I am 6'3 and am in pretty decent shape (lifting/workout a few times per week) and am barely 195 and I look much fuller than golson. I bet he is running about 185.

BTW, his recruiting page on rivals had him at 170. Considering most of the time those are overstated, I think the 200 is very generous

 

[ickythump1225]

Whatever the reason is Golson doesn't excel at the running the read option but I can live with that. We can win games without running it all the time. I can live with Golson taking less hits due to ball security and injury reasons.

 

[Wild Bill]

I just don't believe golson is 200 lbs. I am 6'3 and am in pretty decent shape (lifting/workout a few times per week) and am barely 195 and I look much fuller than golson. I bet he is running about 185.

BTW, his recruiting page on rivals had him at 170. Considering most of the time those are overstated, I think the 200 is very generous

You could be right. Crouch, even if bigger than Golson, isn't much bigger and he could run like the wind blows. I think the issue with Golson is a lack of desire to run and take hits rather than an inability to consistently take hits due to his small stature. You don't need to be a beast like Prescott, Tebow or Newton to run the ball well from the QB position. You just have to be willing to take a hit and pitch or drop a shoulder and challenge a defender at times. Golson, imo, has not done it yet.

 

[woolybug25]

I just don't believe golson is 200 lbs. I am 6'3 and am in pretty decent shape (lifting/workout a few times per week) and am barely 195 and I look much fuller than golson. I bet he is running about 185.

BTW, his recruiting page on rivals had him at 170. Considering most of the time those are overstated, I think the 200 is very generous

Koon:

 

[koonja]

I just don't believe golson is 200 lbs. I am 6'3 and am in pretty decent shape (lifting/workout a few times per week) and am barely 195 and I look much fuller than golson. I bet he is running about 185.

BTW, his recruiting page on rivals had him at 170. Considering most of the time those are overstated, I think the 200 is very generous

Add me to MySpace?

 

[Wingman Ray]

I think the issue with Golson is a lack of desire to run and take hits rather than an inability to consistently take hits due to his small stature. You don't need to be a beast like Prescott, Tebow or Newton to run the ball well from the QB position. You just have to be willing to take a hit and pitch or drop a shoulder and challenge a defender at times. Golson, imo, has not done it yet.

I think part of his issue is knowing that if he goes down, ND doesnt have a competent backup at this time. I think Kelly is telling him to be careful with the runs. I mean think about it...he goes down and ND's season is over. You are not going to beat many teams with a back up that hasnt done more than hand the ball off a couple times all season.

 

[woolybug25]

I think part of his issue is knowing that if he goes down, ND doesnt have a competent backup at this time. I think Kelly is telling him to be careful with the runs. I mean think about it...he goes down and ND's season is over. You are not going to beat many teams with a back up that hasnt done more than hand the ball off a couple times all season.

I don't agree with this at all. We have two 4 star backups that have both been in the system for a while. Hell, BK said it was an open competition between Malik and Golson before the season started. I think Malik is more than competent, and I highly doubt that BK is telling him to run conservatively.