Kelly NFL Rumors

[Irish Insanity]

Remember a month ago when we were arguing about the scenarios to get us in the playoffs.....

 

[wizards8507]

Is Florida perceived as an upgrade to Notre Dame? I don't get it.

 

[dublinirish]

Is Florida perceived as an upgrade to Notre Dame? I don't get it.

these odds say more to me how slim the options are for the likes of UM and UF when it comes to picking a new HC. They are gonna have to spend big to get somebody to jump ship.

 

[koonja]

Really don't care if he leaves for the NFL but losing him to another College team will sting.

This is where I am at, and I do think Florida is a threat. But I think he'll more than likely stay for 2015.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Is Florida perceived as an upgrade to Notre Dame? I don't get it.

Yes, I would say so.

Which job has the edge in:
Recruiting - UF
Pay - Unknown, but probably no difference or UF
University Interference - UF
Fan base expectation - No difference
Ease of making the CFP - UF - given that there would be more MOE given their affiliation with the esss eee ceeee

In all honesty, ND offers practically nothing that would trump UF if you are looking at football and football only. The only thing I can think of is that if you win at ND, you are immortalized where as at UF that probably isn't the case.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

So you would be okay with being above average in exchange for being very good or even potentially great out of the fear of potentially being bad?

Interesting question, but you have to also consider that fear of being potentially bad is more than just that...if we ended up BAD, not only does it suck to be bad, but it takes us at least a few years further away from being very good or potentailly great again. If we end up bad, the media devours it and recruits look elsewhere. If we end up BAD, by the time we fire bad, it makes it that much harder to find another coach who can bring us back up to where we are now let alone take us to the next step that you would getting rid of BK to try and achieve. And then, even if you pulled a great coaching hire out of your ass, it would still take several years to turn BAD into very good or potentially great.

All that being considered, I think I'm content with being above average knowing that BK is still building depth and talent, and right now it is just young. If we're above average with almost entirely underclassmen, I'll take my chances on BK being the man to get us to very good or potentially great once those young bucks grow up and we keep filling in the spots behind them with depth and talent.

Only Temple is tied with us for losing less returning starters next year...nobody loses less.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I want Coach to be here for many more years, AND have BVG with him.

Offensively: people don't want to hear this, but Kelly STILL has never had a Kelly-Offense quarterback. He never has been able to look out on the field pre-snap and think "my guy can accurately read what's happening, AND accurately change into the alternate play, AND be athletic enough to run a little, AND be athletic enough to evade an unblocked edge rusher most of the time, AND see the over-the-middle routes quickly and pull-the-trigger, AND be a pretty accurate passer."

That might seem like a long list, but it's an entirely reasonable list for the quarterback of any contending team. It takes no IE genius to tease out the partial [almost mutually-exclusive] parts of that list which fit Tommy vs Everett. People who say that the incompleteness of Tommy and Everett are Coach's fault are utterly unreasonable. Tommy did all he could with his qualities and learned his craft in the film room and in practice to maximize his performance --- which most of the time was admirable. Everett MIGHT be doing the same thing. To believe that one must believe [as I do] that Everett simply cannot learn by any other method that trial and [disastrous] error right in the field of real play. This is obviously not Coach's doing either.

AND, Coach has had no one else to work with who had a proper skill set AND nervous system [see: Crist/Hendrix --- something else a coach can't discover watching someone in high school] or maturity in the system [Zaire]. People who mindlessly claim that it's STILL coach's fault because he's supposed to be a "quarterback guru", --- well that's a brainless comment to begin with [no guru can turn lead into gold --- silver maybe], but Kelly's rep is really that of an offensive system genius [something that he proves constantly by rolling up yards and points regardless of QB inadequacy] and as Mike Leach said: "Kelly can create an outstanding PASS RECEIVER just by breathing on him." I want to see Kelly coach Notre Dame some year with a Quarterback who can competently do the "solid QB qualities" list mentioned above. What this offense would be with our receivers plus quarterbacking of that kind is the stuff that dreams are made of.

Defensively, and easily briefer --- BVG is installing a new complicated system with horrible player personnel deficits at linebacker and almost no returning starters in his first year. Holy Crap! Give the man a break! He seems to be recruiting brilliantly for this new speed and space-coverage attacking defense. He's trying to replace the slower clocklike methodical Diaco defense dependent upon NFL power DLinemen and a hall-of-fame middle-linebacker. I LOVE watching the guys fly around the field [which they can do when they're healthy.] Give the guy at least two more years to synch that defense in. I'll read the criticism then.

 

[IRISH in MT]

With the staff Kelly has in place, Alford and Cooks as recruiting studs, the # of returning starters coming back next year + with the playoffs now 1 loss doesn't kill your season. Kelly would be an IDIOT to leave this program right now. The stars are too close to aligning. Last year would have been easier after losing Off and Def Coordinators.

 

[pkt77242]

I want Coach to be here for many more years, AND have BVG with him.

Offensively: people don't want to hear this, but Kelly STILL has never had a Kelly-Offense quarterback. He never has been able to look out on the field pre-snap and think "my guy can accurately read what's happening, AND accurately change into the alternate play, AND be athletic enough to run a little, AND be athletic enough to evade an unblocked edge rusher most of the time, AND see the over-the-middle routes quickly and pull-the-trigger, AND be a pretty accurate passer."

That might seem like a long list, but it's an entirely reasonable list for the quarterback of any contending team. It takes no IE genius to tease out the partial [almost mutually-exclusive] parts of that list which fit Tommy vs Everett. People who say that the incompleteness of Tommy and Everett are Coach's fault are utterly unreasonable. Tommy did all he could with his qualities and learned his craft in the film room and in practice to maximize his performance --- which most of the time was admirable. Everett MIGHT be doing the same thing. To believe that one must believe [as I do] that Everett simply cannot learn by any other method that trial and [disastrous] error right in the field of real play. This is obviously not Coach's doing either.

AND, Coach has had no one else to work with who had a proper skill set AND nervous system [see: Crist/Hendrix --- something else a coach can't discover watching someone in high school] or maturity in the system [Zaire]. People who mindlessly claim that it's STILL coach's fault because he's supposed to be a "quarterback guru", --- well that's a brainless comment to begin with [no guru can turn lead into gold --- silver maybe], but Kelly's rep is really that of an offensive system genius [something that he proves constantly by rolling up yards and points regardless of QB inadequacy] and as Mike Leach said: "Kelly can create an outstanding PASS RECEIVER just by breathing on him." I want to see Kelly coach Notre Dame some year with a Quarterback who can competently do the "solid QB qualities" list mentioned above. What this offense would be with our receivers plus quarterbacking of that kind is the stuff that dreams are made of.

Defensively, and easily briefer --- BVG is installing a new complicated system with horrible player personnel deficits at linebacker and almost no returning starters in his first year. Holy Crap! Give the man a break! He seems to be recruiting brilliantly for this new speed and space-coverage attacking defense. He's trying to replace the slower clocklike methodical Diaco defense dependent upon NFL power DLinemen and a hall-of-fame middle-linebacker. I LOVE watching the guys fly around the field [which they can do when they're healthy.] Give the guy at least two more years to synch that defense in. I'll read the criticism then.

I want Kelly and BVG here as well but posts like this are part of the problem. If it isn't Kelly's fault that we don't have a QB like that in year 5 then who's problem is it? I get the first few years but there comes a point where he has to be accountable for that, how long does he need to find/coach a QB to be all those things for him?

I think that Kelly and BVG will both be fine but straight homerism posts that take all the blame from Kelly aren't helpful as well.

Also Golson has been in the program for a long time, how much time does he need to learn our system? If it takes this long do we need to simplify the system?
EE Spring (1)
RS Fall (2)
RS Spring (3)
RS FR Fall (4)
RS FR Spring (5)
RS SO - Missed (-)
RS SO-Spring (6)
RS JR- Fall (7)

This is his 7th semester on campus. That is the same time as all Non-EE seniors.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Yes, I would say so.

Which job has the edge in:
Recruiting - UF
Pay - Unknown, but probably no difference or UF
University Interference - UF
Fan base expectation - No difference
Ease of making the CFP - UF - given that there would be more MOE given their affiliation with the esss eee ceeee

In all honesty, ND offers practically nothing that would trump UF if you are looking at football and football only. The only thing I can think of is that if you win at ND, you are immortalized where as at UF that probably isn't the case.

Agreed. Just ask Urban Meyer.

 

[ND NYC]

but all those mullets and jorts...

 

[irishff1014]

Really don't care if he leaves for the NFL but losing him to another College team will sting.

I have questioned somethings that BK has done and his play calling. But if BK leaves we are in trouble.

 

[pumpdog20]

Is Florida perceived as an upgrade to Notre Dame? I don't get it.

From a football only perspective, yes.

Instate talent, lower academic entry standards, and bag men.

 

[Spitfire]

Fire Kelly threads should be locked up and burned at the stake until someone can give me viable candidates who would come to South Bend, have the resume that Kelly has in regards to program building, can recruit to South Bend and isn't going to bolt in 4 years or less once success takes hold.

Ask Michigan how their coaching search is going. Hoke might just get another year if he wins out or atleast beats Maryland and keeps OSU close. And really thats just because there is literally no one beating down the door to come North.

I think you go back to the names that have been discussed in the past like Urban Meyer, Jon Gruden, and Bob Stoops. I would take any one of those guys over Kelly. As far as recruiting goes, ND sells itself and let's not forget the talent even a guy like Weis was able to bring in. The fear of not meeting expectations should not deter the administration from taking a swing at things if they ever feel Kelly is not the guy to get this program back into the national championship picture.

 

[Irish#1]

Man. I really hope Kelly doesn't read this (and probably other) boards.
He rebuilt the program from dirt, took us to the title game and routinely reels in some of the best recruiting classes outside the South. He deals up with more extracurricular BS than any other coach in big-time football and was a stand-up guy throughout the whole Frozen Five affair with no support from the university. He's finally got his offense humming and is an epic run of bonehead turnovers and a bad pass interference flag away from being undefeated. And then he makes a few bad calls in a close game, his captain running back fumbles a put-it-away run and his senior kicker yaks all over the field, and now half this crowd is ready to toss him.
Did Saturday suck? Of course. But it's one game. If I was him I might just give us ingrates the finger and head for the NFL.

For me it is not just one game. It's a whole series of detail oriented things that are failures over his tenure. I mean after four years we still cannot get a play in on time. We should skip 1st quarters all together because ND ar notorious slow starters. I have yet to see one complete game from all three phases except may be against Michigan this year. Our defensive recruiting is severely lacking. There is the yearly WTF game. The turnovers are a huge concern. Have been for four years. We cannot get a RB deployed properly.

I understand that 8-5 might be an acceptable season or floor for some but the recruits are not coming to a school with high academic demands that perennially get the shits hyped out of them every preseason and then go 8-5 again and again. The inexplicable losses at home to crap teams are ridiculous. I am not saying fire himbecause he has obviously elevated the program from where it was but my confidence is waning.

You both have good points. Personally, after watching BK call plays for the last year and a half, I wouldn't mind if he gave up that duty and concentrated on the overall game plan and management.

 

[phgreek]

I think you go back to the names that have been discussed in the past like Urban Meyer, Jon Gruden, and Bob Stoops. I would take any one of those guys over Kelly. As far as recruiting goes, ND sells itself and let's not forget the talent even a guy like Weis was able to bring in. The fear of not meeting expectations should not deter the administration from taking a swing at things if they ever feel Kelly is not the guy to get this program back into the national championship picture.

There are a certain number of kids that will still pick ND for various reasons...but recruiting depth has ALWAYS been a problem since Holtz left. It is only now starting to improve under Kelly. ND is NOT an easy gig recruiting wise. If it were the coaching searches would have already yielded top established guys...they have not since Holtz. Further there is no chance Bob Stoops, Urban Meyer, John Gruden, or Nick Saban come to ND...no matter how many times folks go through the mental gymnastics to convince themselves they would. The simple fact of the matter is, these guys are established, and don't want the difficulties that come with being the coach at ND. Brian Kelly was a talented guy moving up the ranks, and he was willing to take it all on to improve his lot, so I guess it worked out...I think folks would be better served to look at the Northwestern Coach or someone of that stature as reasonably likely folks that would take the job.

 

[IrishLax]

Florida is only superior to ND in "ease of recruiting"... literally nothing else.

Not a bigger brand, not easier to win in the SEC than against ND's schedule, higher expectations thanks to Meyer's run, not a bigger stage, not more exposure, not better tradition, comparable or worse pay (if what I understand about Kelly's current compensation + Weis money is correct), etc.

All 3 Florida jobs have great "win a championship" upside because of the talent access... outside of that, it's grossly overstated what each has to offer. They aren't Bama, Texas, or even Michigan in terms of prestige/pay potential/exposure/tradition/etc.

 

[wizards8507]

Florida is only superior to ND in "ease of recruiting"... literally nothing else.

Not a bigger brand, not easier to win in the SEC than against ND's schedule, higher expectations thanks to Meyer's run, not a bigger stage, not more exposure, not better tradition, comparable or worse pay (if what I understand about Kelly's current compensation + Weis money is correct), etc.

All 3 Florida jobs have great "win a championship" upside because of the talent access... outside of that, it's grossly overstated what each has to offer. They aren't Bama, Texas, or even Michigan in terms of prestige/pay potential/exposure/tradition/etc.

Also Florida (the state, not the university) sports fans suck ass.

 

[ickythump1225]

For me it is not just one game. It's a whole series of detail oriented things that are failures over his tenure. I mean after four years we still cannot get a play in on time. We should skip 1st quarters all together because ND ar notorious slow starters. I have yet to see one complete game from all three phases except may be against Michigan this year. Our defensive recruiting is severely lacking. There is the yearly WTF game. The turnovers are a huge concern. Have been for four years. We cannot get a RB deployed properly.

I understand that 8-5 might be an acceptable season or floor for some but the recruits are not coming to a school with high academic demands that perennially get the shits hyped out of them every preseason and then go 8-5 again and again. The inexplicable losses at home to crap teams are ridiculous. I am not saying fire himbecause he has obviously elevated the program from where it was but my confidence is waning.

This is pretty close to my opinion. I mean I don't forget the Willingham/Weis years and I'll always be grateful that BK has elevated ND from doormat to respectable but at some point I'd like to see tangible progress. Losses like Northwestern pissed me off in 2010 or 2011 but I understood that BK was still building. 5 years into a tenure we should be beyond losing to teams like Northwestern. I feel the whole "oh well it's college football and crazy s**t happens" is such a cop out. Crazy s**t happens to teams that aren't prepared and don't execute which is ultimately on the coaches.

Brian Kelly is a good coach but I've come to realize he's not a great one. I thought we were getting an Urban Meyer (in terms of coaching ability and not ethics anyway) type coach but ultimately he's Mark Richt. A good coach who will win enough to never seriously put his job in jeopardy but I don't think he can take us over the top. If we're still losing to Northwestern in year 5 it's bad...really bad. And it's not just losing to Northwestern in a vacuum because the Northwestern loss came on the heels of our implosion against ASU. What we've seen the past 2 weeks is a very bad product. Sloppy, undisciplined football with horrible in game coaching decisions. Losing to ASU is one thing, but melting down shouldn't happen in year 5. Losing to Northwestern is on a whole 'nother level of unacceptability.

 

[IrishLax]

Also Florida (the state, not the university) sports fans suck ass.

Yeah, and in all seriousness, this is a huge part of why none of the 3 jobs are inherently "great" jobs outside of access to players. They give you great ability to land star players and compete for championships... the pay and everything else outside of the job is so much less desirable than most people realize.

 

[Cali_domer]

This is pretty close to my opinion. I mean I don't forget the Willingham/Weis years and I'll always be grateful that BK has elevated ND from doormat to respectable but at some point I'd like to see tangible progress. Losses Northwestern pissed me off in 2010 or 2011 but I understood that BK was still building. 5 years into a tenure we should be beyond losing to teams like Northwestern. I feel the whole "oh well it's college football and crazy s**t happens" is such a cop out. Crazy s**t happens to teams that aren't prepared and don't execute which is ultimately on the coaches.

Brian Kelly is a good coach but I've come to realize he's not a great one. I thought we were getting an Urban Meyer (in terms of coaching ability and not ethics anyway) type coach but ultimately he's Mark Richt. A good coach who will win enough to never seriously put his job in jeopardy but I don't think he can take us over the top. If we're still losing to Northwestern in year 5 it's bad...really bad. And it's not just losing to Northwestern in a vacuum because the Northwestern loss came on the heels of our implosion against ASU. What we've seen the past 2 weeks is a very bad product. Sloppy, undisciplined football with horrible in game coaching decisions. Losing to ASU is one thing, but melting down shouldn't happen in year 5. Losing to Northwestern is on a whole 'nother level of unacceptability.

Perfectly stated...

 

[ickythump1225]

Florida is only superior to ND in "ease of recruiting"... literally nothing else.

Not a bigger brand, not easier to win in the SEC than against ND's schedule, higher expectations thanks to Meyer's run, not a bigger stage, not more exposure, not better tradition, comparable or worse pay (if what I understand about Kelly's current compensation + Weis money is correct), etc.

All 3 Florida jobs have great "win a championship" upside because of the talent access... outside of that, it's grossly overstated what each has to offer. They aren't Bama, Texas, or even Michigan in terms of prestige/pay potential/exposure/tradition/etc.

It might not be easier to win the SEC but it is way easier to get to the playoffs/championship at Florida. Even losing to the defending national champions, on the road by less than a TD under questionable officiating still gives you a nearly impossible hill to climb to get back into the top 4. Our "tough" schedules far too often fall flat, whereas in the SEC even if you play in the garbage East you still get a lot of credit for "tough" wins. Hell even at two horrible losses UGA still has an outside shot of making it. ND pretty much has to go undefeated every season to get in. We had the "best loss" that one could possibly imagine and we were still pretty much screwed.

While it may be a tougher path to hoe in SEC with no recruiting restrictions and being situated in talent rich Florida which is in the talent rich south a good coach will have an embarrassment of riches in 2 years.

 

[IrishLax]

It might not be easier to win the SEC but it is way easier to get to the playoffs/championship at Florida. Even losing to the defending national champions, on the road by less than a TD under questionable officiating still gives you a nearly impossible hill to climb to get back into the top 4. Our "tough" schedules far too often fall flat, whereas in the SEC even if you play in the garbage East you still get a lot of credit for "tough" wins. Hell even at two horrible losses UGA still has an outside shot of making it. ND pretty much has to go undefeated every season to get in. We had the "best loss" that one could possibly imagine and we were still pretty much screwed.

While it may be a tougher path to hoe in SEC with no recruiting restrictions and being situated in talent rich Florida which is in the talent rich south a good coach will have an embarrassment of riches in 2 years.

Disagree. The system is setup such that the SEC can only get 1 in unless at least two other conferences completely implode.

At Florida, you have to beat FSU and Georgia every year in addition to the SEC title game. That's in addition to South Carolina, Tennessee, or any SEC West teams that might have an up year. Those 3 games are as hard as any on ND's schedule moving forward with USC normalizing to a good team and Stanford to an OK team.

Florida gives you the best ability to build a monster that can win a championship on talent... the path itself is not easier though.

 

[Kingbish01]

I may be the minority, but I don't want to lose Kelly at all. We damn near beat FSU, E.G. flat out shit the bed against ASU (and cost us the game), Cam and Brindza screwed us against NW (and cost us the game). None of which is truly Kelly's fault. Okay the 2pt conversion I agree, but he had lost all faith in Brindza. Who can blame him.....He's TERRIBLE If anything BVG has showed why he can't keep a job longer than 15 minutes.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I may be the minority, but I don't want to lose Kelly at all. We damn near beat FSU, E.G. flat out shit the bed against ASU (and cost us the game), Cam and Brindza screwed us against NW (and cost us the game). None of which is truly Kelly's fault. Okay the 2pt conversion I agree, but he had lost all faith in Brindza. Who can blame him.....He's TERRIBLE If anything BVG has showed why he can't keep a job longer than 15 minutes.

I'm pretty sure you are in the majority.

I meant in the majority.

 

[Kingbish01]

LOLOL...fat fingers here. But seriously 34, white, male....screams minority

 

[MJ12666]

I may be the minority, but I don't want to lose Kelly at all. We damn near beat FSU, E.G. flat out shit the bed against ASU (and cost us the game), Cam and Brindza screwed us against NW (and cost us the game). None of which is truly Kelly's fault. Okay the 2pt conversion I agree, but he had lost all faith in Brindza. Who can blame him.....He's TERRIBLE If anything BVG has showed why he can't keep a job longer than 15 minutes.

Don't forget Tranquill who, when the NW's receiver fumbled on the last drive and Farley was standing over the ball reaching down to pick it up and lock up the game, only to have the spunky Tranquill slide in at the last second to knock the ball out of bounds.

 

[Emcee77]

Don't forget Tranquill who, when the NW's receiver fumbled on the last drive and Farley was standing over the ball reaching down to pick it up and lock up the game, only to have the spunky Tranquill slide in at the last second to knock the ball out of bounds.

OMG yeah I almost did forget about that one. There are so many freaking ways we could have won that game it is unbelievable.

 

[Kingbish01]

Don't forget Tranquill who, when the NW's receiver fumbled on the last drive and Farley was standing over the ball reaching down to pick it up and lock up the game, only to have the spunky Tranquill slide in at the last second to knock the ball out of bounds.

That's what I mean....My face would turn purple too. So many bonehead plays, that Kelly can't help. I'm glad Tranquill was playing instead of Max's soft ass. On top of all that, these kids are making bonehead plays off the field. Kelly lost Golson for a year, and 5 other players for being knuckleheads. Ya, let's get rid of Kelly, so we can get back to the days of .....well we all know, it wasn't pretty.

 

[Kingbish01]

OMG yeah I almost did forget about that one. There are so many freaking ways we could have won that game it is unbelievable.

We would have beat ASU if we didn't spot them 28 at home...lol