Jack Arute on Sirius

[wizards8507]

I guess that is my point. Why bust them? I mean bust them, sure, slap them on the wrist. But lets not pretend this isn't a college campus. If they are dealing weed, then that is a different story, but lets not pretend this doesn't go on everywhere or that half the people working on that campus haven't lit up at one point or another. This approach that ND takes is antiquated and frankly, getting old...and yes, I did go to school there and share that opinion.

It's not about "doing it," it's about "doing it in such a blatant/idiotic way that you get caught." If you're a student, you know that the administration isn't smashing down the doors in Alumni Hall to try and catch kids with a joint. It's like drinking. You can drink a case of beer in your dorm room and your RA can KNOW you're drinking a case of beer in your dorm room and you're going to be fine. Taking shots on South Quad, however, will get you into trouble. Same thing with parietals. I broke parietals every single night sophomore year (Sunday through Saturday). My RA obviously knew about it when my girlfriend walked out of Dillon to class at 9:15 every morning; he even joked about it and ordered her dorm t-shirts when we had events. ND will let you break every rule in the book as long as you're not prancing around giving them the finger saying "LOOK AT ME, I'M BREAKING EVERY RULE IN THE BOOK!"

 

[kmoose]

Our administration is just straight up fucked up. It is nearly impossible to cheer for our teams with the dumbness that run the school involved.

I fail to see how expecting kids to live up to, and abide by, the rules that are very clear is "straight up fucked up", or "dumbness"?

Notre Dame sells prospective student-athletes, and their parents, on the value of the education that they will receive at Notre Dame. They also sell them on the kind of person that they will become, at Notre Dame. So why the hell would ND then say "winning football games is more important than the personal responsibility to follow the rules, whether you agree with the rules or not". You made the commitment to attend Notre Dame. In doing so, you made the commitment to follow the rules that the University sets forth. You did NOT agree to follow the rules that you agree with, and fvck the ones that don't make sense to you.

 

[PANDFAN]

so do the draft evals come back with just the grade or is it grade and improvement areas? if you know you are coming back whats the point/benefit?

to see where you are viewed at as a prospect..
According to an NFL.com report, only five total players from each college team can now request an NFL grade from the College Advisory Committee, which evaluates college talent and gives feedback to prospective players. There were no team limits prior to the ruling, and close to 250 underclassman requested a grade before the 2014 NFL Draft. The second significant change is the draft grade underclassmen will receive from the advisory board. In the past, players would receive one of five grades: first round, at least second round, at least third round, fourth to seventh round or undrafted. Now, the only three options college players can receive are first round, second round, or stay in school.

Read more at: NFL To Restrict Evaluations, Change Grades For Draft-Eligible Underclassmen | NFL Draft | NESN.com

 

[gkIrish]

It's not about "doing it," it's about "doing it in such a blatant/idiotic way that you get caught." If you're a student, you know that the administration isn't smashing down the doors in Keough Hall to try and catch kids with a joint. It's like drinking. You can drink a case of beer in your dorm room and your RA can KNOW you're drinking a case of beer in your dorm room and you're going to be fine. Taking shots on South Quad, however, will get you into trouble. Same thing with parietals. I broke parietals every single night sophomore year (Sunday through Saturday). My RA obviously knew about it when my girlfriend walked out of Dillon to class at 9:15 every morning; he even joked about it and ordered her dorm t-shirts when we had events. ND will let you break every rule in the book as long as you're not prancing around giving them the finger saying "LOOK AT ME, I'M BREAKING EVERY RULE IN THE BOOK!"

+1

 

[CarrollVermin]

I fail to see how expecting kids to live up to, and abide by, the rules that are very clear is "straight up fucked up", or "dumbness"?

Notre Dame sells prospective student-athletes, and their parents, on the value of the education that they will receive at Notre Dame. They also sell them on the kind of person that they will become, at Notre Dame. So why the hell would ND then say "winning football games is more important than the personal responsibility to follow the rules, whether you agree with the rules or not". You made the commitment to attend Notre Dame. In doing so, you made the commitment to follow the rules that the University sets forth. You did NOT agree to follow the rules that you agree with, and fvck the ones that don't make sense to you.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the high and mighty horse we take sometimes is a bit much. I have students that show up to my class that smell like they just lit a bong. Do I start a witch hunt and find a way to kick them out of school...no. That would be stupid.

I have had athletes cheat in class...do I turn them in and try to ruin their lives...no. I sit them down, with their coach, make them aware that I know and tell them what the consequences will be. Then have their coach run them until their puke their liver. Why do I do this...not because they are athletes, but because they are kids. Plus the danger in expelling them, with respect to them never coming back, is just as high.

I understand ND, and I love my university. But there are things that I disagree with. We would not be as hated if we just played by the same rules as everyone else, and stopped acting like our shit doesn't smell. It does...and it always will.

 

[NDdomer2]

to see where you are viewed at as a prospect..
According to an NFL.com report, only five total players from each college team can now request an NFL grade from the College Advisory Committee, which evaluates college talent and gives feedback to prospective players. There were no team limits prior to the ruling, and close to 250 underclassman requested a grade before the 2014 NFL Draft. The second significant change is the draft grade underclassmen will receive from the advisory board. In the past, players would receive one of five grades: first round, at least second round, at least third round, fourth to seventh round or undrafted. Now, the only three options college players can receive are first round, second round, or stay in school.

Read more at: NFL To Restrict Evaluations, Change Grades For Draft-Eligible Underclassmen | NFL Draft | NESN.com

Thanks PA. I knew they changed the draft grades but didnt know what it was. So I guess since you get 5 evals you might as well take them. Wonder why we didnt use the final one?

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the high and mighty horse we take sometimes is a bit much. I have students that show up to my class that smell like they just lit a bong. Do I start a witch hunt and find a way to kick them out of school...no. That would be stupid.

I have had athletes cheat in class...do I turn them in and try to ruin their lives...no. I sit them down, with their coach, make them aware that I know and tell them what the consequences will be. Then have their coach run them until their puke their liver. Why do I do this...not because they are athletes, but because they are kids. Plus the danger in expelling them, with respect to them never coming back, is just as high.

I understand ND, and I love my university. But there are things that I disagree with. We would not be as hated if we just played by the same rules as everyone else, and stopped acting like our shit doesn't smell. It does...and it always will.

You should probably re-evaluate your fandom. Honestly. It will do wonders in helping you reconcile the apparent cognitive dissonance to the way ND does things versus almost every other FBS does it.

 

[wizards8507]

I have students that show up to my class that smell like they just lit a bong. Do I start a witch hunt and find a way to kick them out of school...no. That would be stupid.

I'd bet $100 real dollars that that's NOT what happened. These guys knew WAY in advance that random drug testing would be required to maintain eligibility. This wasn't a "witch hunt." The rules were clear and they deliberately disobeyed them.

 

[SoDakDomer]

What are we expecting the punishment to be for something like this? Is it a bowl game, or maybe the semester? If its just the bowl game I'm fine with that. The entire semester would suck as they lose that spring practice time. They knew they were breaking rules by smoking, especially if its true they were doing it in their dorm room. Yes I understand this probably happens alot and nothing comes of it, or no one gets caught. But the fact of the matter is they did get caught and now are going to be held accountable for their actions. These guys are just kids and will make mistakes. The college experience is all about helping kids mature and grow. I say sit em for the bowl game and get them back for the rest of spring practice. I have no issues with that as long as the punishment is appropriate and we don't go all draconian on them.

*IF ANY OF THIS IS ACTUALLY TRUE

 

[NDdomer2]

I like how nothing official has been said yet and the board is in meltdown mode.

isnt that what happens when people come around saying i know something but cant tell. seems to be a trend around here IMO.

IMO that gets people more worked up than if someone would just come on and spill the news because it leads to rampant speculation.

 

[dublinirish]

isnt that what happens when people come around saying i know something but cant tell. seems to be a trend around here IMO.

IMO that gets people more worked up than if someone would just come on and spill the news because it leads to rampant speculation.

When there's smoke, there's fire. No matter how much we always try to deny all these crazy off-field rumors they generally come true :/

 

[ThePiombino]

isnt that what happens when people come around saying i know something but cant tell. seems to be a trend around here IMO.

IMO that gets people more worked up than if someone would just come on and spill the news because it leads to rampant speculation.

I completely understand why the beans can't be spilled at times, but this is 100% true. It would behoove the holder of said beans to not say that they have any beans in the first place.

 

[kmoose]

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the high and mighty horse we take sometimes is a bit much. I have students that show up to my class that smell like they just lit a bong. Do I start a witch hunt and find a way to kick them out of school...no. That would be stupid.

I don't recall anyone being kicked out of ND for a first infraction with pot. They have been suspended, yes; but I can't recall anyone being expelled.

I have had athletes cheat in class...do I turn them in and try to ruin their lives...no. I sit them down, with their coach, make them aware that I know and tell them what the consequences will be. Then have their coach run them until their puke their liver. Why do I do this...not because they are athletes, but because they are kids. Plus the danger in expelling them, with respect to them never coming back, is just as high.

But why should ND lower their standards to your level? Do we aspire to be the best, or the be one of those just getting by? Shouldn't we strive for the highest standards, and not the lowest? I'm sure you are a successful educator, despite your low standards for your students' behavior, but that doesn't mean that other educational institutions are obligated to lower their standards to your level.

I understand ND, and I love my university. But there are things that I disagree with. We would not be as hated if we just played by the same rules as everyone else, and stopped acting like our shit doesn't smell. It does...and it always will.

I don't think this has anything to do with an "our shit doesn't smell" attitude. In fact, I think it is just the opposite: it's a "We have issues, too. But we don't sweep them under the rug, we deal with them. And THAT helps our students develop the high character that will serve them well in life." attitude. And that is just one of the many things that makes ND different.

 

[CarrollVermin]

You should probably re-evaluate your fandom. Honestly. It will do wonders in helping you reconcile the apparent cognitive dissonance to the way ND does things versus almost every other FBS does it.

I love how its always, the "way we do things" to the way that "they do things". Guess what...we do things just the same as everyone else. Every program is dirty. I love the "ND way" of doing things. Michael Floyd was busted three times for drinking...the last one he was behind a car, could have killed someone and we turned a blind eye...because it was "just an MPI". Don't give me that crack of bull. We aren't any better than anyone else out there.

 

[BestBIrish47]

Can some one spill said beans in a tuperware container so we can still eat them later?

 

[CarrollVermin]

I don't recall anyone being kicked out of ND for a first infraction with pot. They have been suspended, yes; but I can't recall anyone being expelled.



But why should ND lower their standards to your level? Do we aspire to be the best, or the be one of those just getting by? Shouldn't we strive for the highest standards, and not the lowest? I'm sure you are a successful educator, despite your low standards for your students' behavior, but that doesn't mean that other educational institutions are obligated to lower their standards to your level.



I don't think this has anything to do with an "our shit doesn't smell" attitude. In fact, I think it is just the opposite: it's a "We have issues, too. But we don't sweep them under the rug, we deal with them. And THAT helps our students develop the high character that will serve them well in life." attitude. And that is just one of the many things that makes ND different.

What do you gain from suspending a student from school? What do you gain from suspending a lower to lower middle class student from school? The reality of it is, you send them back to the neighborhoods and streets where they learned that behavior in the first place. I do have an issue with it, because it is one that is very present on many of our college campuses across the country. We want to be a holistic university, then lets work on the real issues that face our campus.

But I digress. At the end of the day, if it makes the alumni base and administration feel better for catching students and athletes drink or smoke weed and sending them home in the name of "higher standards" then that is fine. We can continue to be seen as an elitist institution that preaches the whole human and human dignity. There is nothing dignified about the way that we face many issues on campus. From sweeping sexual assault allegations under the rug, to the bastardly treatment of the LGBT community and minorities on campus, we are not in a position to throw stones at anyone.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I love how its always, the "way we do things" to the way that "they do things". Guess what...we do things just the same as everyone else. Every program is dirty. I love the "ND way" of doing things. Michael Floyd was busted three times for drinking...the last one he was behind a car, could have killed someone and we turned a blind eye...because it was "just an MPI". Don't give me that crack of bull. We aren't any better than anyone else out there.

I disagree with that. I think ND tries to uphold a certain level of responsibility with players and students alike. Nothing wrong with trying to build up the character of a football player who does something against the university rules. Taking responsibilty for one's actions is a dying breed amongst people today. Lowering standards and rules in order to deflect some of that responsibility should not be something that's expected by those who want to hold people to a higher ground.

I don't think smoking a joint should get one tossed from school. But ND didn't call me and ask my opinion either. Whatever the school decides if all this is in fact true, then fans of that school should embrace the fact that it appears ND is trying to hold those values up that built their reputation as a top university and builder of character.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I don't recall anyone being kicked out of ND for a first infraction with pot. They have been suspended, yes; but I can't recall anyone being expelled.



But why should ND lower their standards to your level? Do we aspire to be the best, or the be one of those just getting by? Shouldn't we strive for the highest standards, and not the lowest? I'm sure you are a successful educator, despite your low standards for your students' behavior, but that doesn't mean that other educational institutions are obligated to lower their standards to your level.



I don't think this has anything to do with an "our shit doesn't smell" attitude. In fact, I think it is just the opposite: it's a "We have issues, too. But we don't sweep them under the rug, we deal with them. And THAT helps our students develop the high character that will serve them well in life." attitude. And that is just one of the many things that makes ND different.

It's not really a matter of "lowering their standards". I think what Vermin suggested was very level headed. Like you said, this isn't like any other major football institution where they sweep it under the rug, so why are you making it sound like this is what he is suggesting. He wasn't. He said that if he catches them cheating, to talk to them and his coach and settle things there to prevent it from happening again. I understand that you have to uphold academic integrity, but it seems like this is a perfectly reasonable solution to the problem. Obviously, it wouldn't have worked with the frozen 5, given the timing and numbers, but if it's just 1 or 2 guys, Vermin's suggestion seems to be just fine.

I don't think it's a "our shit doesn't smell" mentality, more so a "holier than thou" mentality. It seems like ND wants everybody here to be choir boys, or at least close to it. It's time for them to realize that this isn't the 50's. It's 2014, nearly 2015. Does that mean, we have to let them go out and break laws? No. But be more lenient with the little stuff. Does this mean we have to stoop down to FSU or Alabama's level? No. We can find realistic solutions to very manageable problems.

 

[wizards8507]

What do you gain from suspending a student from school? What do you gain from suspending a lower to lower middle class student from school? The reality of it is, you send them back to the neighborhoods and streets where they learned that behavior in the first place. I do have an issue with it, because it is one that is very present on many of our college campuses across the country. We want to be a holistic university, then lets work on the real issues that face our campus.

But I digress. At the end of the day, if it makes the alumni base and administration feel better for catching students and athletes drink or smoke weed and sending them home in the name of "higher standards" then that is fine. We can continue to be seen as an elitist institution that preaches the whole human and human dignity. There is nothing dignified about the way that we face many issues on campus. From sweeping sexual assault allegations under the rug, to the bastardly treatment of the LGBT community and minorities on campus, we are not in a position to throw stones at anyone.

You're a STUDENT at Notre Dame? Dear God in Heaven, why?

 

[T Town Tommy]

Does this mean we have to stoop down to FSU or Alabama's level? No. We can find realistic solutions to very manageable problems.

I don't think Alabama is anywhere near FSU's level.

 

[NDRock]

I fail to see how expecting kids to live up to, and abide by, the rules that are very clear is "straight up fucked up", or "dumbness"?

Notre Dame sells prospective student-athletes, and their parents, on the value of the education that they will receive at Notre Dame. They also sell them on the kind of person that they will become, at Notre Dame. So why the hell would ND then say "winning football games is more important than the personal responsibility to follow the rules, whether you agree with the rules or not". You made the commitment to attend Notre Dame. In doing so, you made the commitment to follow the rules that the University sets forth. You did NOT agree to follow the rules that you agree with, and fvck the ones that don't make sense to you.

You're right. People just get frustrated when these types of stories come out. The frustration lies in the fact that ND is seemingly the only school that suspends its players for academic reasons or smoking pot. What's worse is nobody in the media ever gives ND any credit for doing things "the right way".

I really think one of the biggest things ND could do to improve their football team is to sever ties with NBC and sign with ESPN. I guarantee we would be getting much better coverage with ESPN if they had a significant financial incentive to do so. Even if we were losing there would be more stories about ND's high standards, graduation rates, etc...

 

[CarrollVermin]

I disagree with that. I think ND tries to uphold a certain level of responsibility with players and students alike. Nothing wrong with trying to build up the character of a football player who does something against the university rules. Taking responsibilty for one's actions is a dying breed amongst people today. Lowering standards and rules in order to deflect some of that responsibility should not be something that's expected by those who want to hold people to a higher ground.

I don't think smoking a joint should get one tossed from school. But ND didn't call me and ask my opinion either. Whatever the school decides if all this is in fact true, then fans of that school should embrace the fact that it appears ND is trying to hold those values up that built their reputation as a top university and builder of character.

So Les Miles or Urban Meyer do it and they are snakes...ND does it and we are trying to "build character". Got it.

Did we do the same thing when Tommy and Calabrese were arrested? We were building character with them too?

 

[CarrollVermin]

You're a STUDENT at Notre Dame? Dear God in Heaven, why?

I don't follow, Wizard.

 

[NDohio]

You're right. People just get frustrated when these types of stories come out. The frustration lies in the fact that ND is seemingly the only school that suspends its players for academic reasons or smoking pot. What's worse is nobody in the media ever gives ND any credit for doing things "the right way".

I really think one of the biggest things ND could do to improve their football team is to sever ties with NBC and sign with ESPN. I guarantee we would be getting much better coverage with ESPN if they had a significant financial incentive to do so. Even if we were losing there would be more stories about ND's high standards, graduation rates, etc...

Interesting thought. I don't completely agree though. ESPN wouldn't want to raise ND up to the point that they are disparaging the other schools they have have on their payroll. With that being said, I think NBC should probably do a better job of promoting ND for doing it the right way. They don't have any other schools on their payroll that to worry about making angry.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't follow, Wizard.

You seem to hate everything the University stands for. Worse, you seem not to believe that the university actually DOES stand on principle. ND is just as bad as everyone else says you. Not only that, but you seem to think ND is actually WORSE than everyone else since we're hypocrites about it.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

The problem I have w/ ND is that they don't keep their dirty laundry in-house. It's like they want to publicly flog the program. Punish them? Absolutely. Suspend them? Yes, if that's what the university/coaches deem appropriate.

Does this nonesense happen at every other big school? Absolutely. The key is that it's contained w/in the university...more specifically the athletic dept. You don't think Bama kids screw up? I guarantee when a Bama player runs afoul of the rules/laws, that the first call is to Saban. Not the press, not local authorities, not campus police, not the administration...the head coach. Then it's dealt with appropritately.

NOTE: not picking on Bama...just an example & one I suspect is true...that's not a bad thing IMO...unless it elevates to a felony...then all bets are off.

 

[T Town Tommy]

So Les Miles or Urban Meyer do it and they are snakes...ND does it and we are trying to "build character". Got it.

Did we do the same thing when Tommy and Calabrese were arrested? We were building character with them too?

I am saying that ND prides itself in doing things the "right" way. What that way is can be open for debate. But when a school has the reputation of high academics and high intergrity above everything else including football, then the school has to decide whether they are actually that or if it is simply smoke and mirrors.

There is much more vested interest by the Admin at ND to protect that mission and reputation than there is whether two football players will play the next game, next season, etc.

 

[wizards8507]

The problem I have w/ ND is that they don't keep their dirty laundry in-house. It's like they want to publicly flog the program. Punish them? Absolutely. Suspend them? Yes, if that's what the university/coaches deem appropriate.

Does this nonesense happen at every other big school? Absolutely. The key is that it's contained w/in the university...more specifically the athletic dept. You don't think Bama kids screw up? I guarantee when a Bama player runs afoul of the rules/laws, that the first call is to Saban. Not the press, not local authorities, not campus police, not the administration...the head coach. Then it's dealt with appropritately.

NOTE: not picking on Bama...just an example & one I suspect is true...that's not a bad thing IMO...unless it elevates to a felony...then all bets are off.

Who called the press? If "the press" knew anything, we wouldn't be here speculating about wtf is going on.

 

[dublinirish]

The problem I have w/ ND is that they don't keep their dirty laundry in-house. It's like they want to publicly flog the program. Punish them? Absolutely. Suspend them? Yes, if that's what the university/coaches deem appropriate.

Does this nonesense happen at every other big school? Absolutely. The key is that it's contained w/in the university...more specifically the athletic dept. You don't think Bama kids screw up? I guarantee when a Bama player runs afoul of the rules/laws, that the first call is to Saban. Not the press, not local authorities, not campus police, not the administration...the head coach. Then it's dealt with appropritately.

NOTE: not picking on Bama...just an example & one I suspect is true...that's not a bad thing IMO...unless it elevates to a felony...then all bets are off.

what about Justin Ferguson though? Wasn't it well known he was a pothead and was kicked off the football team for said reasons but this was never really exposed publicly.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Is it time to change the name of this thread yet?