Is Dayne Crist the Problem?

[Bogtrotter07]

Let the season tell. Let it go. ... or, as an option, glucocorticoid therapy is often effective in excess testosterone situations.

Wow dude! Seems like you are a some kind of expert on excessive testosterone situations.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Now I'm REALLY starting to question how long you have been watching football. It's not whether or not Dayne is a great QB. You've come on here making outrageous claims about Crist's accuracy. If his accuracy is so bad, then please explain to me how a guy "who can't hit the broad side of a barn" is completing 60% of his passes, through 7 games? If you want to say that this team would be a much better team, if Crist's accuracy was more consistent, then I am willing to listen. But what's ridiculous is to say that Crist's play is "the problem with this team".

Clearly he hasn't a clue,.... why don't you just turn and argue with the wall???

There are 119 Division I-A college teams. Crist is ranked 50 out of 148 QBs of those 119 teams. He is not the greatest and he is no where near bad. He is not mediocre either with an efficiency of 133.xx ... CanadianIrish is a hoser and should keep his judgments to himself.

Diz

 

[Old Man Mike]

To the Trotter: it's a family trait, and one shared by most of the people on our board.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

CanadianIrish is a hoser

Now the gloves are off. We are getting into serious taunting!

French Soldier: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

Sir Galahad: Is there someone else up there we can talk to?
French Soldier: No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Now the gloves are off. We are getting into serious taunting!

Take-Off 'eh!!!


Diz

 

[military_irish]

I say its like playing poker in certain situations.

Just take the odds and go with it, if you have a 6'4 WR and he's up against a 5'11 DB. You don't need a laser beam, just throw it up and let the WR make a play. 9 out of 10 times it wil be caught or a PI will be called.

I'm not saying do that for every type of route, but in particular the fade is a major one where that strategy comes into play or a go route.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To Trotter: HaHaHa! Given that Canada is north, your quote of "is there anyone else up there we can talk to?" is synchronistically hilarious. Doubtless, it was all part of your plan.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

To Trotter: HaHaHa! Given that Canada is north, your quote of "is there anyone else up there we can talk to?" is synchronistically hilarious. Doubtless, it was all part of your plan.

I think it is part of the Trotter's evile plan

YouTube - Dr Evil's Laughing Scene

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7edeOEuXdMU?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7edeOEuXdMU?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[Old Man Mike]

HaHaHa redux!! If that doesn't take the testosterone out of the balloon nothing will. Old man needs to rest---see you knuckleheads on another day. Peace

 

[Bogtrotter07]

synchronistically

Shhhhh!!!

 

[The Polish Irishman]

This is the kind of nonsense that makes this forum scary. Unless you are a Pollyanna believe in ND no matter what you are a troll. Dayne threw for 250+ today - awesome. He also missed several throws I could have made (the roll out miss to Floyd was really bad, the should have been pass interference tofloyd wouldn't have mattered if the pass wasn't far too high to a wide open receiver etc). And let's not forget this was a really bad team. If Dayne isn't the weak link, what is?

Great thread....I call dibs on Free Safety

 

[mgriff]

While I think there are some valid points about comparing Clausen to Crist in the first year, but, overall, it's comparing apples and oranges. Crist has been in the college ranks for two years already--growing, developing, and adjusting to the college game. Jimmy was thrown in as a true freshmen, with no time to acclimate. While it can be argued that Jimmy and Dayne were both thrown into new systems their first starting years, Jimmy's talent surrounding him was waaaaaay worse than what DC has to work with, and did not have any period of adjustment to the college game. This is why I don't think comparisons are warranted at this point. Sure there were a few similarities, but just as many differences which destroy any legitimacy in the comparison. There are too many variables to gain any conclusive results.

I'm not saying Dayne is performing great, and I'm not saying he's playing too poorly. He's doing enough at this point for me to positive about his development, but I would really like to see him put it all together in one of the coming two games--before Utah.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Take-Off 'eh!!!

You're always pushing me around.*

Great thread....I call dibs on Free Safety

And I want running back, I've noticed that Cierre hasn't always been hitting the holes hard and AA just can't break the big one.


*By the way, Strange Brew is the best 3b movie ever made.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'm not saying Dayne is performing great, and I'm not saying he's playing too poorly. He's doing enough at this point for me to positive about his development, but I would really like to see him put it all together in one of the coming two games--before Utah.

I think everybody would agree with this to some degree. It's the absurd dramatics of the original post that made this thread into the powder keg it is.

 

[dshans]

.*By the way, Strange Brew is the best 3b movie ever made.

YouTube - cream - Cream Strange Brew - Disraeli Gears

(By the way, what is a "3b" movie?)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

All I can say . . .

YouTube - Strange Brew - Original Trailer

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

I think Dayne will be a decent guy for us in the end. Is he the second coming of Clausen or Quinn, I doubt it, but as he continues to play and develop and get more comfortable in this new system we should see him get better. His Stats are not bad at all right now. I can see how some people are frustrated with some of his throws. He has made several questionable throws this year and at times struggles to get the ball to where it needs to be. Having said that, he has overall done a decent job considering his circumstances and the fact that he has only played 7 games. I look for continued improvement from him as the season goes on, and god willing when it's all said and done we will all be able to look back and say he had a decent season.

 

[Rocket89]

Now it's time for....Dayne Crist versus Garrett Gilbert!!!

DC stats:
155 for 261 (59.4%)
1,855 yards
14 TD
5 INT
133.0 passer rating

GG stats:
118 for 196 (60.2%)
1,213 yards
4 TD
5 INT
113.8 passer rating

I'm happy to have Crist...anyone else?

 

[Jerry]

Dayne's going through a few more growing pains than we expected. I thought he would be a little more polished being a junior and all, but if he keeps getting better it should be a good spring board into next season.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

Dayne's going through a few more growing pains than we expected. I thought he would be a little more polished being a junior and all, but if he keeps getting better it should be a good spring board into next season.

I agree with you. He has had his share of growing pains, but I think in the end he will be a darned good quarterback. This year really is all about learning and growing and implementing a new system, so we are about where I thought we would be at this point in the season. I really hope he continues to develop and make a few less mistakes, but overall, I would take him over alot of other quarterbacks out there.

 

[Irish Man3]

How can you expect him to be polished in a different system? How can you expect him to be polished as a first year starter. Let's not forget the kid blew his knee out less than a year ago. That affects footwork which affects accuracy. He is not a 3 year starting junior that's been in the same system all three years. The kid has started 7 games in his collegiate career and led us to a winning record against a top 10 schedule. I agree that he has a long way to go but he has done all we could have asked so far.

 

[CanadianIrish]

its is his first year in a new system what do you expect?

This has been a common response in this thread, and if the problem I see was poor decision making then that would be a perfectly acceptable answer. But it's not poor reads or bad decision making that concerns me - it's simply poor accuracy. I haven't made any comments about his reads, only about his accuracy. The ability to throw a fade has little to do with taking the snap under center or from shotgun. Underthrowing a receiver by five yards on an 80 yard touchdown strike has nothing to do with spread v. pro-style. That's not the concern.

The other common answer has been "Dayne is completing 60% of his passes". I obviously used inflammatory language, but that's simply not an adequate response to what I posted. I've cited several throws as examples:
1.) The fade TD to Floyd a few weeks ago
2.) The 80 yard TD to Floyd on Saturday
3.) The should have been Pass Interference throw to Floyd Saturday
4.) Overthrowing Floyd on the rollout Saturday
5.) The 5 yard out against Purdue to seal the game

All five of those were dreadful passes, but he completed 60% of them. According to the logic that 60% completion rate inherently means accurate passing, the very throws I'm concerned about are proof he's doing fine. Nobody can watch those five throws and say things are going great. Anybody who watches the long TD to Floyd and says it wasn't badly under thrown is an absolute idiot (that TD is all on Floyd as it is, if he was led properly he never would have been touched). Anybody who watches the fade TD and says that's what a fade should look like is an idiot. Anybody who says that the 5 yard out to seal the game against Purdue was a good throw is an idiot. I haven't even addressed any of the missed throws against MSU and Michigan that cost us points.

Then there is also the issue of comparing Dayne's completion percentage to previous Kelly QBs. Zach Collaros completed 75% of his passes last year, his guys as Grand Valley State completed just under 70%, and even Tony Pike completed 63% last year. Dayne's completion percentage is actually very low for a Kelly QB.

There is no question that Dayne has a cannon of an arm (which is another issue raised in his defense that has nothing to do with my concern). The question is whether he has any touch - and right now he doesn't. Moreover, it's not getting better. This was an issue in week one, and it's still an issue today.

What's funny is that my knowledge of football is being criticized when this shouldn't have been a controversial statement: Dayne's Scout Profile listed accuracy as his lone concern when he was a recruit; the NBC announcers have addressed it on a few occasions; this has been addressed on less biased forums without vitriol; his own coach gave him a c+ as a mid season review; Crist himself has addressed his lack of accuracy this season; and there are actually identifiable moments this season where his lack of accuracy has cost the Irish points.

Just having a cannon of an arm is fine with some offenses, but Kelly's spread requires touch and accuracy more than the ability to throw 30 yards on a rope. If the accuracy doesn't improve, the team won't improve either. This is the one thing holding us back right now. Kelly isn't a coach who wins based on defense (Cinci gave up 45 points to UConn last year, 36 to to Illinois and 44 to Pitt). The D isn't going to get that much better, the issue is that his offense averaged 38.6 points per game with the Bearcats - they simply outgunned people.

Facts are facts, and our defense is doing just as well as Kelly's others have done, it's the offense that is struggling. The spread demands accuracy, and Dayne isn't providing it.

 

[Irish Man3]

Reps in the offense. Thats where accuracy comes into play. He needs the reps and he needs more experience under his belt. He is accurate as a passer but he is inconsistent. He has made some amazing passes into tight coverage but its not on an every down occasion. Time and experience is the answer.

 

[Jerry]

How can you expect him to be polished in a different system? How can you expect him to be polished as a first year starter. Let's not forget the kid blew his knee out less than a year ago. That affects footwork which affects accuracy. He is not a 3 year starting junior that's been in the same system all three years. The kid has started 7 games in his collegiate career and led us to a winning record against a top 10 schedule. I agree that he has a long way to go but he has done all we could have asked so far.

Just talking about accuracy plain and simple. I understand the new system, first year starter, ect. But he has missed some easy out passes where he just throws the ball into the ground. I think as he gets more comfortable we won't see little mistakes like that.

 

[Irish Man3]

Agreed. Accuracy is based on reps and how comfortable he is in the offense.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

Reps in the offense. Thats where accuracy comes into play. He needs the reps and he needs more experience under his belt. He is accurate as a passer but he is inconsistent. He has made some amazing passes into tight coverage but its not on an every down occasion. Time and experience is the answer.

I agree with you on this. Experience and reps and he will get better. He has missed some passes this season, there is no question about it, but as time goes by we will see him become more consistent.

 

[phgreek]

After the Purdue game I said Dayne's accuracy was a serious problem and people criticized me for a variety of things and I simply let it go. Now, six weeks later, it's time to face facts. Dayne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. His TD throw to Floyd was brutally under thrown, he missed numerous wide open receivers, and even the announcers were commenting on this. The problem with this team isn't the receivers, the line or even the defence - it's the quarterback. We haven't had a quarterback play this poorly since Quinn's first season, and maybe earlier.

Look back at the losses and think what would have happened with one or two more accurate throws. We're 5-1 going into this week if Dayne is an accurate QB. How many easy throws has he missed?

People need to stop making silly jokes with his name and realize his accuracy is a serious problem and it's holding this team back in a big way. The big concern is that we haven't addressed this issue at all. We have no QBs coming in this year and the recruits from last year are largely caretakers.

So come 2012, we have Andrew Hendrix leading the team against a crucible of a schedule and Dayne tossing balls around with no accuracy until then. Really hard to think things are looking up right now ...

I don't know...I can't bag on him. I see the missed opportunities. Can't deny the fact that he has some moments where you wonder WTF was that? I don't have to be a very good lip reader to see Kelly thinking the same thing...Some of that is the fact that you expect the throws to be like ole no. 7...No. 7 Dayne is not...in addition, I'm sure he makes alot of those if he wasn't running, reading, and throwing simultaneously. But he does make some good throws, and some pretty good decisions. He is somewhere ahead of where Jimmy was his Freshman year, and not where Jimmy was in HI. He is going to be fine

...consider any snap he ever took prior to this year really has limited benefit/value. You are really growing this kid from a seed. That considered...I think he is growing like a poplar.

For now, he is what he is, a work in progress...you can't deny he has the capability to be very effective in the spread...its his consistancy...and when that is the issue, and not mechanics, size, speed, apptitude, I think you might be a little early to the witch Burnin' here.

Someone called out Manti some time ago...and my belief was the same...he has alot churning around in his head...when the thinkin stops and the reaction happens...he'd be fine...then he went out and did some nice things against Stanford...same will happen for Dayne...as it did for Manti at Stanford as it did for Jimmy in HI...the light comes on, and the rest of the stuff lines up...maybe that doesn't happen until this season is in the books...but it will happen.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How can you expect him to be polished in a different system? How can you expect him to be polished as a first year starter. Let's not forget the kid blew his knee out less than a year ago. That affects footwork which affects accuracy. He is not a 3 year starting junior that's been in the same system all three years. The kid has started 7 games in his collegiate career and led us to a winning record against a top 10 schedule. I agree that he has a long way to go but he has done all we could have asked so far.

The voice of reason. (Only problem, Kelly and his offense aren't reasonable!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Holtz
its is his first year in a new system what do you expect?
This has been a common response in this thread, and if the problem I see was poor decision making . . . accuracy, and Dayne isn't providing it.

Dude, nice thesis, you have too much time on your hands!

YouTube - Strange Brew (1983): Film Clip - "Jelly donut comin'."

Reps in the offense. Thats where accuracy comes into play. He needs the reps and he needs more experience under his belt. He is accurate as a passer but he is inconsistent. He has made some amazing passes into tight coverage but its not on an every down occasion. Time and experience is the answer.
__________________

Anyone know the spread offense? I don’t know crap; but I do know this: There are decisions made by all 11 players on every offensive snap. That is why all the running backs, (except AA), are having a hard time picking up pass blocking. That is why the offensive line looks occasionally stupid, and a bit tentative. In addition to playing against some mondo-fast talent this year, the line has to make some snap decisions. And, how can we forget early in the season, the spate, nee epidemic of receivers cutting the other direction from where Dayne put the ball? Spread offense, think chainsaw.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Someone over at NDNation has posted a critique of Dayne's throwing motion, and claims that there are actually three distinct throwing motions, one of which is accurate and the others are not.

I haven't paid enough attention to comment, but several articles from the time of his recruitment raise concerns about consistency in his throwing motion and release point. Maybe that's the problem, I don't know.

But this team will not win games against decent opponents throwing 75% of the time (as we did in the first half) with Dayne's current accuracy.

 

[kmoose]

The other common answer has been "Dayne is completing 60% of his passes". I obviously used inflammatory language, but that's simply not an adequate response to what I posted. I've cited several throws as examples:
1.) The fade TD to Floyd a few weeks ago
2.) The 80 yard TD to Floyd on Saturday
3.) The should have been Pass Interference throw to Floyd Saturday
4.) Overthrowing Floyd on the rollout Saturday
5.) The 5 yard out against Purdue to seal the game

All five of those were dreadful passes, but he completed 60% of them. According to the logic that 60% completion rate inherently means accurate passing, the very throws I'm concerned about are proof he's doing fine. Nobody can watch those five throws and say things are going great..

It's a completely adequate response to what you posted. You made wild statements about "not being able to hit the broad side of a barn". A 60% completion percentage is a perfectly logical argument against the rhetoric you used, regardless of what you might have been thinking. You might have been thinking "Well, it's not THAT bad, but I'm angry so I am going to exaggerate a little.", but you wrote "can't hit the broad side of a barn." I can't speak for anyone else here, but in regards to MY responses to you: I've never once said that things are going great. I merely refuted your assertion that the sky was falling because Dayne Crist has problems with consistently being accurate.