Immigration

[Buster Bluth]

You sound like me about a decade ago. I used those same arguments. Then, I woke up. There are number of potential solutions to declining birth rates but mass unvetted uncontrolled immigration is the least effective and most costly.

You couldn't have used the same arguments a decade ago because the situation on the southern border has done a 180 since then.

Newsflash: there is no "mass unvetted uncontrolled immigration" happening. The influx of specifically Mexicans illegal immigrants stopped abruptly a decade ago. So it seems you stopped reading the news, hence the change in mindset.

One solution is addressing the media's attack on traditional families, Christian religion, and gender roles. The relentless propaganda has created a generation of godless, amoral know it alls that know nothing.

So you're proposing we censure media and enforce Christianity? Weren't you just talking about respect for law? Check out the first amendment.

We disagree on the economic costs of unfettered immigration, but there is a far greater long term cost: rule of law. Who is legal who isn't? Who has rights who doesn't? Do states have the power to overrule Federal laws? DACA was a federal proposal. Arizona challenged it and lost. Now, the Federal government wants to cancel it, and now the New York is going to sue to block cancellation. Something tells me New York will win. The laws in this country are becoming meaningless...except if you are not a protected class.

Seems like you like playing the victim card as much as your mythical opponent.

All of this talk of the rule of law not a single word about the rights of Americans being violated by Trump's favorite xenophobic sheriff. The rule of law was thrown at him and the President announced that it's okay to break the law if you're anti-immigrant. 10/10 hypocrisy by the party of law and order.

Regarding your second valid point about automation, I agree, but I find it hard why you cannot connect the dots. Automation requires high skilled labor. How does unfettered illegal legal immigration of low skill labor going to address that? Will it not further tax the social safety net? Unfettered immigration exacerbate the problems caused by automation.

What? You just drew dots randomly and connected them. You'd be laughed out of the room for saying this garbage in an economics class.

Of course, Corporate American has addressed the supposed need for high skilled labor by taking advantage of the H1B visa program. Why pay Americans the market wages when you could hire outside the country pennies on the dollar? Adding insult to injury, these companies require Americans to train them.

I have no yet disagreed with the notion that immigration has some effect on wages. I simply put it in perspective and call you out on focusing solely on that. You're sloppy, as most xenophobia is.

Xenophobic..haha. Read some history regarding our immigration laws and wake up. 1965 immigration act. Read what they claimed and what happened. The establishment has given up on American dream. They are prepping for an integrated North America. Clinton would have been our Merkel. Thank god enough Americans woke up and were not afraid of being called names. Trump isn't perfect and he may be a mirage. To the dying thirsty American, a mirage is better than nothing.

Tin foil garbage.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Yawn. I believe people should be treated equally. I have more care and understanding regarding immigrants than you. You are the wretched passive exploiter. Under the guise of feelings and kindness, you allow the rampant exploitation of these immigrants...not me. If they want to be a part of this country, they must respect our laws. Nothing more. It irritates me to no end to watch some of these DACA "dreamers" to show their ingratitude. Shoot a bird and demanding give them what they have for most part stolen.

Yeah, that ain't true, I can guarantee you that 100%. You know shit about me and what I do. When you have 25 years of working with the poor, the marginalized, and yes, immigrants, both documented and undocumented, then come talk to me. Until then, kindly STFU and sink back into your xenophobic hole you so love living in.

 

[Legacy]

Yawn. I believe people should be treated equally. I have more care and understanding regarding immigrants than you. You are the wretched passive exploiter. Under the guise of feelings and kindness, you allow the rampant exploitation of these immigrants...not me. If they want to be a part of this country, they must respect our laws. Nothing more. It irritates me to no end to watch some of these DACA "dreamers" to show their ingratitude. Shoot a bird and demanding give them what they have for most part stolen.

I understand that you adhere to the vision of a multi-ethnic, multi-religious vision of our American culture, correct?

What you would like to see is that we return to an immigration system whereby the now-DACA kids have the current federal right to go to high school, but no farther. Should they want to pursue a path to citizenship and/or go to college or serve in the military, you would favor that they leave the country after they reach the age of eighteen, obtain a green card, and apply for citizenship after waiting the necessary eight years. During that eight years of legal residency they could work at jobs that do not require higher education accruing the benefits of employer-sponsored health care, make Social Security contributions and paying federal, state and other taxes?

 

[Domina Nostra]

Why are both sides so self-righteous in this argument?

Telling someone they have to leave the country they think of as home is a a very big deal, even if their parents came here illegally--especially when they have to return to a country they don't know and that is not nearly as well-off. This is even more true considering the behavior was condoned by almost everyone in authority for decades.

On the other hand, the rule of law is crucial. It's pointless to debate policy if you can just ignore the laws on the books. Comprehensive immigration reform is just a meaningless term if one side is committed to ignoring rules they don't like. And not everyone agrees that borders and immigration standards are cruel or inhumane per se. In fact, no one has ever argued this. Every country has always had them and enforced them as necessary. It's the basis of international law. Further, a policy that penalizes people (i.e., immigrants) that follow the rules is broken. And the idea that our politicians have a duty to American workers first is not racists or xenophopic. It's just common sense.

And the moral duty to welcome refugees is not the same as a commitment to open-borders.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

You couldn't have used the same arguments a decade ago because the situation on the southern border has done a 180 since then.

Newsflash: there is no "mass unvetted uncontrolled immigration" happening. The influx of specifically Mexicans illegal immigrants stopped abruptly a decade ago. So it seems you stopped reading the news, hence the change in mindset.



So you're proposing we censure media and enforce Christianity? Weren't you just talking about respect for law? Check out the first amendment.




Seems like you like playing the victim card as much as your mythical opponent.

All of this talk of the rule of law not a single word about the rights of Americans being violated by Trump's favorite xenophobic sheriff. The rule of law was thrown at him and the President announced that it's okay to break the law if you're anti-immigrant. 10/10 hypocrisy by the party of law and order.



What? You just drew dots randomly and connected them. You'd be laughed out of the room for saying this garbage in an economics class.



I have no yet disagreed with the notion that immigration has some effect on wages. I simply put it in perspective and call you out on focusing solely on that. You're sloppy, as most xenophobia is.



Tin foil garbage.

First it was Americans won't do the job, then aging population, then oddly automation, but when all else fails pull the bigot card. Like I said, I used to believe what you believe but the contradictions were too much for me to overcome.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

I understand that you adhere to the vision of a multi-ethnic, multi-religious vision of our American culture, correct?

What you would like to see is that we return to an immigration system whereby the now-DACA kids have the current federal right to go to high school, but no farther. Should they want to pursue a path to citizenship and/or go to college or serve in the military, you would favor that they leave the country after they reach the age of eighteen, obtain a green card, and apply for citizenship after waiting the necessary eight years. During that eight years of legal residency they could work at jobs that do not require higher education accruing the benefits of employer-sponsored health care, make Social Security contributions and paying federal, state and other taxes?

Multi-ethnic, multi-religious as long as the dominant ethnicity believes in Western ideals. Free speech, religion, press, due process,...I scan the globe and I notice very few ethnicities who espouse those ideals. We are at risk of losing our Western way of life because of our immigration and lack of assimilation policies.

DACA kids should go home. They should file their paperwork and follow our immigration guidelines. If they want to be Americans, they should endure the process that all immigrants must endure. There should be no free lunch.

 

[Buster Bluth]

First it was Americans won't do the job, then aging population, then oddly automation, but when all else fails pull the bigot card. Like I said, I used to believe what you believe but the contradictions were too much for me to overcome.

I haven't moved the goalposts one bit.

I said Americans aren't willing to go pick vegetables for those wages. This is true, and has been for decades and decades. You can Google it and see from Alabama to California the difficulty of running a large farming operation without migrant labor. And please note that agricultural jobs have been exempt from minimum wage since the inception of the minimum wage. We have never wanted to pay people better to pick our fruit.

You said there aren't any benefits, I named some. One of them is that they resupply our population with young workers at a time when the developed world is aging.

You said corporations outsourced "all the decent jobs," I said that was incorrect and automation is responsible for SEVEN TIMES the job losses.

I said you cone off as an ignorant xenophobia because of how sloppy you are.

 

[Buster Bluth]

DACA kids should go home. They should file their paperwork and follow our immigration guidelines. If they want to be Americans, they should endure the process that all immigrants must endure. There should be no free lunch.

We are their home you moron.

 

[Bishop2b5]

We are their home you moron.

They aren't citizens. They didn't come here legally. So no, this is not their home.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

We are their home you moron.

DACA dreamers have a stated age between 15 to 30 years old. These are not toddlers that our media wants you think they are, but you know that. Often, we have no idea how old these dreamers are. Regardless, these individuals should be grateful and if they want to become Americans they should return to their home country and follow our immigration process.

 

[Buster Bluth]

They aren't citizens. They didn't come here legally. So no, this is not their home.

Paperwork doesn't decide your home. It decides your nationality. This is their home in a general sense of the word.

These are people who were brought here as children and infants. Many don't speak another language other than English and are indistinguishable from Americans because, get this, they assimilated just fine!

The idea that a bunch of people parading around telling everyone how Christian we are (and complaining that immigration makes us lose our Christian identity) would then support a move to deport children in a political stunt is...well unfortunately it's becoming par for the course for Republicans.

But, and this is a big one, Donald Trump left a way out: Congress has six months to act. They have the authority to fix this. This is just 100% a calculated political move. When Congress does the sensible thing Trump will be able to turn around and say to his ignorant xenophobic base and say "See! I did the thing you wanted me to do! It's that damn Congress again! I'm still your guy!"

 

[Buster Bluth]

DACA dreamers have a stated age between 15 to 30 years old. These are not toddlers that our media wants you think they are, but you know that. Often, we have no idea how old these dreamers are. Regardless, these individuals should be grateful and if they want to become Americans they should return to their home country and follow our immigration process.

When did I say they were infants? I believe I said many were brought here as infants. As in, they aren't Columbian (for example) because they grew up here. They are easily the most Americanized portion of the illegal immigrants.

This move reveals that the argument that immigration policy is about protecting ourselves from those who won't assimilate is a complete joke. Just as Donald Trump's call to slash legal immigration intakes by 50% shows it's not at all about respect for simply entering the country the right way. It's dead and dying rural America's belief that the brown people are here to take their country from them. You've stated it plainly enough.

I could point out that our immigration processes are so byzantine and backwards that it could take some of these DREAMERS more than a century (130+ years, actually) to gain legal entry, but you don't care. And that's the problem with you and the typical Trump supporter. Facts don't matter. Conservative think tanks can come out and say that this move could cost the US economy $28 billion annually, but it wouldn't matter. Because you've given yourself a license to wear your ignorance proudly.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Paperwork doesn't decide your home. It decides your nationality. This is their home in a general sense of the word.

These are people who were brought here as children and infants. Many don't speak another language other than English and are indistinguishable from Americans because, get this, they assimilated just fine!

The idea that a bunch of people parading around telling everyone how Christian we are (and complaining that immigration makes us lose our Christian identity) would then support a move to deport children in a political stunt is...well unfortunately it's becoming par for the course for Republicans.

But, and this is a big one, Donald Trump left a way out: Congress has six months to act. They have the authority to fix this. This is just 100% a calculated political move. When Congress does the sensible thing Trump will be able to turn around and say to his ignorant xenophobic base and say "See! I did the thing you wanted me to do! It's that damn Congress again! I'm still your guy!"

Good grief. Trump is merely addressing this issue as it should have been addressed by the previous administration. Americans will have a say and will lobby their representatives accordingly. If Congress decides to grant Amnesty, then so be it. This process seems so novel to you...why?

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

When did I say they were infants? I believe I said many were brought here as infants. As in, they aren't Columbian (for example) because they grew up here. They are easily the most Americanized portion of the illegal immigrants.

This move reveals that the argument that immigration policy is about protecting ourselves from those who won't assimilate is a complete joke. Just as Donald Trump's call to slash legal immigration intakes by 50% shows it's not at all about respect for simply entering the country the right way. It's dead and dying rural America's belief that the brown people are here to take their country from them. You've stated it plainly enough.

I could point out that our immigration processes are so byzantine and backwards that it could take some of these DREAMERS more than a century (130+ years, actually) to gain legal entry, but you don't care. And that's the problem with you and the typical Trump supporter. Facts don't matter. Conservative think tanks can come out and say that this move could cost the US economy $28 billion annually, but it wouldn't matter. Because you've given yourself a license to wear your ignorance proudly.

Our tax system is backwards, should I stop paying my taxes? Our local DMV guidelines is backwards, should I not register my car? Why do you excuse illegal immigrants? Do you think they lack the ability to follow laws? Do they have to learn to follow laws? I am guessing you are also OK with state/county/city governments not pursuing illegal immigrants who break "minor" laws.

 

[wizards8507]

When did I say they were infants? I believe I said many were brought here as infants. As in, they aren't Columbian (for example) because they grew up here. They are easily the most Americanized portion of the illegal immigrants.

So what do you suggest? Deport the parents, the ones who violated our laws knowingly and deliberately? But let the kids stay? Who's the one tearing families apart now?

If a woman steals a bike and then gives it to her kid, does the kid get to keep the bike on the basis that he didn't knowingly do anything wrong and it's the only bike he's ever known? Sentimental bullshit.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Our tax system is backwards, should I stop paying my taxes? Our local DMV guidelines is backwards, should I not register my car? Why do you excuse illegal immigrants? Do you think they lack the ability to follow laws? Do they have to learn to follow laws?

You know DACA is legal, right?

Immigrants, both legal and illegal, have a much lower conviction rate than natural-born citizens. They literally follow the laws better than average Americans, outside of the immigration status of illegals.

I am guessing you are also OK with state/county/city governments not pursuing illegal immigrants who break "minor" laws.

Sanctuary cities are also legal. And they occur to promote the safety of our streets and citizens.

It's no different than states legalizing marijuana and saying that if the DEA wants to come arrest you, they can, but they're going to stop using vital state resources on an asinine federal policy. Cities do not have the resources to serve as an immigration authority, but they can say "if ICE wants to come get arrest you, they can, but we're going to 'don't ask, don't tell' on the matter so please work with our police to crime violent crime in the meantime."

This is the polar opposite approach of Trump's favorite xenophobe sheriff, who was violating the Constitutional rights of Americans in his overly aggressive hunt for illegal immigrants. But, the laws don't matter then I guess.

I'm not going to apologize for living in reality and knowing the obvious fact that enacting the letter of the law would be much more detrimental than any mythical negative impact of immigration. When I grew up a Republican it was common to say that the federal government can't stop fucking up laws and policies in the most backwards way imaginable--but now when it comes to immigration suddenly it's "oooooh we must respect every letter of the law developed by the omniscient and omnipotent Congress." What a joke.

 

[Cackalacky]

So what do you suggest? Deport the parents, the ones who violated our laws knowingly and deliberately? But let the kids stay? Who's the one tearing families apart now?

If a woman steals a bike and then gives it to her kid, does the kid get to keep the bike on the basis that he didn't knowingly do anything wrong and it's the only bike he's ever known? Sentimental bullshit.

Current statistics state that 700,000+dreamers are currently employed. Out 800,000 presently on the rolls. Meaning they contribute payroll and other taxes.

Dreamers are also much more likely to have higher paying jobs or start their own businesses than those not in the program.

The real problem for Republican cans is that the program deals with children. By allowing the children to stay it allows the parents to stay as well and would function to keep family units together. Ideal right. Yay win for conservatives right?

Now we are about to kick 700,000 working people and 100,000 children out of the country and send them to a place they have never known presumably without their families. Seems caring and legit.

Sentimental bullshit? That is a crazy POV. The children have zero connection to place of their parents. These children are as american as my children and yours. This is absurd. DACA is a very reasonable first step for a pathway to citizenship program. Guess who could help the adults learn english and the other aspects of our culture? The children who know it better.
Kicking these kids/young adults out is as cruel as it gets. People supporting this should he ashamed.

 

[Buster Bluth]

So what do you suggest? Deport the parents, the ones who violated our laws knowingly and deliberately? But let the kids stay? Who's the one tearing families apart now?

There will be no mass deportation. Republicans' financial backers won't have it, and they'd drive people to polls like they've never seen. Trump just wants to talk a big game to the batshit crazy segment of the population that still supports him.

But yeah I'd say keeping the kids and not the parents is a better policy, which is why DACA and the DREAM Act are no-brainers. Because, you know, dropping 800,000 people off in countries they don't have much of a tie to would be a humanitarian disaster.

If a woman steals a bike and then gives it to her kid, does the kid get to keep the bike on the basis that he didn't knowingly do anything wrong and it's the only bike he's ever known? Sentimental bullshit.

Did you just compare petty theft to the prospect of sending a 16-year old English-speaking Yankee-cheering Guatemalan back to Guatemala for a political stunt?

Imagine growing up in Connecticut from the age of, say, 3 and hearing stories about how awful and dangerous Guatemala is and now, at age 16, you're going to be flown there with basically a "good luck, ya bad hombre" letter and an inability to speak Spanish. I think it'd be tougher to come up with a more unchristian way of resolving our immigration problems.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

You know DACA is legal, right?

Immigrants, both legal and illegal, have a much lower conviction rate than natural-born citizens. They literally follow the laws better than average Americans, outside of the immigration status of illegals.



Sanctuary cities are also legal. And they occur to promote the safety of our streets and citizens.

It's no different than states legalizing marijuana and saying that if the DEA wants to come arrest you, they can, but they're going to stop using vital state resources on an asinine federal policy. Cities do not have the resources to serve as an immigration authority, but they can say "if ICE wants to come get arrest you, they can, but we're going to 'don't ask, don't tell' on the matter so please work with our police to crime violent crime in the meantime."

This is the polar opposite approach of Trump's favorite xenophobe sheriff, who was violating the Constitutional rights of Americans in his overly aggressive hunt for illegal immigrants. But, the laws don't matter then I guess.

I'm not going to apologize for living in reality and knowing the obvious fact that enacting the letter of the law would be much more detrimental than any mythical negative impact of immigration. When I grew up a Republican it was common to say that the federal government can't stop fucking up laws and policies in the most backwards way imaginable--but now when it comes to immigration suddenly it's "oooooh we must respect every letter of the law developed by the omniscient and omnipotent Congress." What a joke.

Wow. Sanctuary cities are legal? DACA is legal? If you don't have the money don't enforce the law. Sheriff was overly aggressive doing his job? You bemoan Republicans but they support your views.

I guess you might be right. The assimilation argument is bunk because we are already a banana republic.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Current statistics state that 700,000+dreamers are currently employed. Out 800,000 presently on the rolls. Meaning they contribute payroll and other taxes.

Dreamers are also much more likely to have higher paying jobs or start their own businesses than those not in the program.

The real problem for Republican cans is that the program deals with children. By allowing the children to stay it allows the parents to stay as well and would function to keep family units together. Ideal right. Yay win for conservatives right?

Now we are about to kick 700,000 working people and 100,000 children out of the country and send them to a place they have never known presumably without their families. Seems caring and legit.

Sentimental bullshit? That is a crazy POV. The children have zero connection to place of their parents. These children are as american as my children and yours. This is absurd. DACA is a very reasonable first step for a pathway to citizenship program. Guess who could help the adults learn english and the other aspects of our culture? The children who know it better.
Kicking these kids/young adults out is as cruel as it gets. People supporting this should he ashamed.

Children? O the children! Do Americans not have children? O I forget American children don't want to dream the dreams that need to be dreamed.

 

[Cackalacky]

Children? O the children! Do Americans not have children? O I forget American children don't want to dream the dreams that need to be dreamed.

Is that the extent of your argument now? Run out ideas?Here is one. How about countering how anti-pro life this is? I assume you are pr life for innocent children yes? How about countering that your erroneous assumptions have been shown to be wrong? These are productive, tax paying, law abiding persons or innocent children. Their families contribute $11 billion in tax revenue. Less than 1% are criminals. They speak english. They are highly likely to be successful and overall positive effect to the community. If this isnt a legislative homerun then what is?

People who are for removal and relocation into poverty and worse conditions are immoral, vacant, uncaring and cruel., let alone shortsighted regarding the physical machinations of rounding up a million plus people and transporting them to another country who likely will refuse to take them.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Wow. Sanctuary cities are legal? DACA is legal?

Yes. I'm not surprised this is new to you.

Generally speaking, the federal government can't make local governments ask people whether they are complying with federal laws. So the exception to this is DC, which is run by Congress. This is why you don't see local officials hauled off to prison, they aren't violating laws.

And DACA asserts the executive branch's authority to prioritize its resources effectively. Naming, skip the Americanized kids and go after the threats.

I guess you might be right. The assimilation argument is bunk because we are already a banana republic.

Exhibit 876 on you being completely detached from reality.

 

[Buster Bluth]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-dreamer-act-renewal-immigrants-a7931481.html

I would LOL if this policy move wasn't inviting disaster.

 

[Wild Bill]

There will be no mass deportation. Republicans' financial backers won't have it, and they'd drive people to polls like they've never seen. Trump just wants to talk a big game to the batshit crazy segment of the population that still supports him.

The issue of immigration has proven to be a real thorn in the side of "conservative" financial backers in the western world, i.e, Brexit, Trump. Piles of cash couldn't stop either movement and it's a growing problem.

The western world is so castrated that they can't even discuss the issue honestly. Immigration isn't an issue of morality or economy. It's an issue of race and culture. An overwhelming majority of western whites have no interest in being a minority in their own countries. Of course they'll publicly celebrate diversity but privately they'll do whatever is within their control to live in a majority white city, town, neighborhood and send their kids to majority white schools. Any idiot with eyes, common sense and the slightest ability to recognize patterns knows this. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that a growing non-white population and a shrinking white population troubles them, and probably explains the resurgence of nationalism. Now we're seeing a lot of these nationalist movements turn into white identitarian movements in Europe. I assume the same will happen here. These types of movements, that are based on race or culture, are difficult to stop with campaign money. Strange times we're living in.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The issue of immigration has proven to be a real thorn in the side of "conservative" financial backers in the western world, i.e, Brexit, Trump. Piles of cash couldn't stop either movement and it's a growing problem.

The western world is so castrated that they can't even discuss the issue honestly. Immigration isn't an issue of morality or economy. It's an issue of race and culture. An overwhelming majority of western whites have no interest in being a minority in their own countries. Of course they'll publicly celebrate diversity but privately they'll do whatever is within their control to live in a majority white city, town, neighborhood and send their kids to majority white schools. Any idiot with eyes, common sense and the slightest ability to recognize patterns knows this. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that a growing non-white population and a shrinking white population troubles them, and probably explains the resurgence in nationalism. Now we're seeing a lot of these nationalist movements turn into white identitarian movements in Europe. I assume the same will happen here. These types of movements, the kinds that are based on race or culture, are difficult to stop with campaign money. Strange times we're living in.

The only problem with this is that anti-immigrant sentiment is coming from places that are the least diverse.

 

[Wild Bill]

The only problem with this is that anti-immigrant sentiment is coming from places that are the least diverse.

I can't speak for the entire country but you can't find a more diverse place than Chicago and it's completely segregated. White liberals in this town will tell you all about their diversity credentials but will pay a small fortune to make sure their children go to all white schools. They are also terrified to voice their opinion. We love diversity but not diversity of thought. A white person in a rural area is able to speak freely. A white city dweller doesn't enjoy freedom of expression.

 

[NorthDakota]

Liberals should LOVE this move by The Don. He's literally asking Congress for immigration reform... probably in exchange for a wall? Seems a small price to pay for #dreams.

The Don is coming to ND tomorrow. For the 2nd time. Dont think Obama ever came. Could be wrong. What a time to be alive that he will grace us with his presence.

 

[Legacy]

Multi-ethnic, multi-religious as long as the dominant ethnicity believes in Western ideals. Free speech, religion, press, due process,...I scan the globe and I notice very few ethnicities who espouse those ideals. We are at risk of losing our Western way of life because of our immigration and lack of assimilation policies.

DACA kids should go home. They should file their paperwork and follow our immigration guidelines. If they want to be Americans, they should endure the process that all immigrants must endure. There should be no free lunch.

Thanks for the response. What do you think about the Pope's remarks (Post 327). He is Latino, of course.

Congress has ducked their responsibility in formulating a comprehensive immigration bill. Should they pass one piece of legislation that provides a path to citizenship without Dreamers having to return to their parents' country of origin and to continue college, military service, or business, you'll be on board with respect for the Rule of Law?

Trump has also cut funding for refugee settlement by organizations like Catholic Charities, etc.so even if Dreamers return to a country that is in a civil war, drug wars or under a brutal dictatorship, they may not be able to return.

You may be aware that the Trump admin has capped refugee caps at 50,000, which was met in July. (2016 saw 80k+) Murmurs that the Admin would lower it further. That would be problematic for Dreamers to "endure the process" and ever return.

You may also be aware that the Trump Admin recently increased the HB2 (unskilled worker) visas by 15,000 because the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary John Kelly said he consulted with Labour Secretary Alexander Acosta to determine that "there are not enough qualified and willing US workers available to perform temporary nonagricultural labour to satisfy the needs of some American businesses in FY 2017."

Foreign Agricultural Workers on H-2A Visas (IRS)

Kelly added that Congress has given him "discretional authority" to provide relief for American businesses.who would suffer economically otherwise.

I am unclear on what - if any - "assimulation policies" our country has defined to which you refer. Are there such rules? Or is it more of an assimulation process so different than what Dreamers now do, i.e. obtain a higher education, enter the workforce or build businesses, practice their religion, etc.?

There is bipartisanship for legislation addressing DACA participants. We'll see if it's a majority - or if it's prevented from a vote or vetoed, if passed. Legislation would obviate these lawsuits and executive actions.

 

[Cackalacky]

The issue of immigration has proven to be a real thorn in the side of "conservative" financial backers in the western world, i.e, Brexit, Trump. Piles of cash couldn't stop either movement and it's a growing problem.

The western world is so castrated that they can't even discuss the issue honestly. Immigration isn't an issue of morality or economy. It's an issue of race and culture. An overwhelming majority of western whites have no interest in being a minority in their own countries. Of course they'll publicly celebrate diversity but privately they'll do whatever is within their control to live in a majority white city, town, neighborhood and send their kids to majority white schools. Any idiot with eyes, common sense and the slightest ability to recognize patterns knows this. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that a growing non-white population and a shrinking white population troubles them, and probably explains the resurgence of nationalism. Now we're seeing a lot of these nationalist movements turn into white identitarian movements in Europe. I assume the same will happen here. These types of movements, that are based on race or culture, are difficult to stop with campaign money. Strange times we're living in.

What you say here is extremely insightful and I respect it. However I think there is a moral component to it as well but it seems to not be one that is worthy of reflection by many conservatives. What you say is important but I think unpreventable. I use this term as respectfully as I can but do you think this is what is known as "white resentment"?

Given this inevitability its not surprising thepolicies pursued by Trump indicate this is a real aspect of the current political state.

 

[GowerND11]

They aren't citizens. They didn't come here legally. So no, this is not their home.

I used to think this until I worked with kids that were illegally here that fit the DACA requirements. They came here when they were 1, 4, 8, 10 whatever. I find it hard to believe these kids, whom have assimilated so well that they lack any accent, have never been to their home country, that stand for, and recite, the Pledge of Allegiance and Star Spangled Banner, that want to go to college and work in health care, education, police, etc. (You know HELP people) are not American. Was it wrong for their parents, by law, to come to this country and bring their kids? Absolutely it was, but c'mon you don't think any of our white ancestors might have slipped through and came illegally?

All I'm saying is, if you are a good Christian man (not just you, anyone) that wants to serve the word of God and help his fellow man... You see that especially these Dreamers are part of our countries future success and we need to do what's right morally and not just ship them to a country they don't know as home.