Horrible Alleged PSU Scandal

Pa Golden Tate Fan

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Well a member in my family is an attorney and talk to the soon to be President Judge of Centre County today . The judge said that it is bad and people are worried about Penn State in the future. This will take years to resolve. This is the same judge who banned Sandusky alone with his grandchildren. It is gotten get worse.
 

irish1958

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Get your hip boots out because you are knee deep in what cattle and horses leave behind if you believe this.
He knew that he was under investigation for the past three years and the authorities apparently never searched his home or computer. In these case a there is almost a 100% probably that there is child porn there. The DA or the police apparently never looked during there investigation so he has had plenty of time to get rid of it.
What a ####poor investigation.
 

RyCo1983

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Apparently a guy that lived across the hall from me in my old apartment was a Second Mile kid and the Sandman tried putting his moves on him...
He did an interview with NBC like 2 weeks ago.
Now this story has touched a person I knew and interacted with on a daily basis.
Damn...
 

BGIF

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IF this is true ...

IF this is true ...

Another version of Mike McQueary's story about Jerry Sandusky surfaces | PennLive.com

December 11, 2011, 12:49 AM
By SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News The Patriot-News


McQueary family friend, a Dr. Dranov, says McQueary's story was different the night of the incident.

...

Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.

Because of that response, the source says, Dranov told McQueary that he should talk to his boss, head football coach Joe Paterno, rather than police.

The next day Paterno and McQueary talked, and Paterno’s response to the conversation was widely scrutinized when the grand jury presentment was made public in November

...


WOW!

IF this holds up, McQueary's credibilty could compromise the case (at least this victim). Were the doctors, Dranov and McQueary's father, required to report this. OR does Dranov alledged 3 queries and McQueary's 3 negative responses free them of a reporting obligation. IF they didn't have a responsiblity based on negative responses why would Paterno, et al have responsibility under a similar negative report to them.

The article doesn't say it but I googled Dr Dranov, he's an MD, Board Certified in Nephrology and Internal Medicine and a PSU grad.
 

BGIF

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Paterno hospitalized after falling, fracturing pelvis - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com

December 11, 2011 - 1:03 PM
CBSSports.com wire reports

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- A source close to the family of Joe Paterno tells the Associated Press the former Penn State coach was admitted to the hospital Sunday after re-fracturing his pelvis following a fall at his home.
The person requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. The person said no surgery was required.
Paterno initially injured the pelvis after a player accidentally blindsided him in preseason practice.
Paterno is also being treated for lung cancer.
The person said it was determined he should stay in the hospital to keep his regiment of treatments while recovering from the injury.
University trustees fired the 84-year-old Paterno last month amid mounting criticism that school leaders should have done more to prevent abuse allegations against former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, who maintains his innocence.
 

IrishLax

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Another version of Mike McQueary's story about Jerry Sandusky surfaces | PennLive.com

December 11, 2011, 12:49 AM
By SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News The Patriot-News


McQueary family friend, a Dr. Dranov, says McQueary's story was different the night of the incident.




WOW!

IF this holds up, McQueary's credibilty could compromise the case (at least this victim). Were the doctors, Dranov and McQueary's father, required to report this. OR does Dranov alledged 3 queries and McQueary's 3 negative responses free them of a reporting obligation. IF they didn't have a responsiblity based on negative responses why would Paterno, et al have responsibility under a similar negative report to them.

The article doesn't say it but I googled Dr Dranov, he's an MD, Board Certified in Nephrology and Internal Medicine and a PSU grad.

IMO this is total BS... stinks of an "out" to shield Penn State from blame. You have a sworn deposition that now, all of a sudden many weeks later, is being "refuted" by what a guy "remembers" from many, many years ago.
 

phgreek

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IMO this is total BS... stinks of an "out" to shield Penn State from blame. You have a sworn deposition that now, all of a sudden many weeks later, is being "refuted" by what a guy "remembers" from many, many years ago.

yea...kinda agree. the good Dr. would be in some **** if he too failed to do something...all he is doing is saving his own asss by casting some doubt as to what Mcqueery actually said. I think folks will see through that as BS...
 

BGIF

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IMO this is total BS... stinks of an "out" to shield Penn State from blame. You have a sworn deposition that now, all of a sudden many weeks later, is being "refuted" by what a guy "remembers" from many, many years ago.

All of a sudden? Uh, uh.

Dr Dranov gave sworn testimony to the Grand Jury.
 

IrishLax

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All of a sudden? Uh, uh.

Dr Dranov gave sworn testimony to the Grand Jury.

Huh? Where? Why wasn't that something any of us have seen in print until now? Please give me a date and link to his grand jury testimony.

Also, it makes sense for him to say what he is saying because if he didn't report it he'd be up a creek without a paddle like some of these other guys.

#motive
 

BGIF

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Huh? Where? Why wasn't that something any of us have seen in print until now? Please give me a date and link to his grand jury testimony.

Also, it makes sense for him to say what he is saying because if he didn't report it he'd be up a creek without a paddle like some of these other guys.

#motive

Where?

In the article cited.


Why wasn't that something any of us have seen in print until now?
Ah, maybe because this is a prosecutorial activity and not a defense one. You were all over the Lacrosse Team Rape Case demanding due process. Now you rush to judgement faster than that prosecutor running for election.


Give you a date and link to his grand jury testimony?

Grand Jury testimony is sealed. It's not public. Most of the "testimony" in the Grand Jury Presentment is the Grand Jury's characterization of what took place with only snippets of actual testimony from witnesses they cherry picked. In a Presentment they make an argument that there is grounds to warrant further legal activity, NOT that a person is guilty. NOTE: A Presentment is NOT the same as an Indictment.

There's an old saw that says, "A skilled prosecutor can get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich." This was NOT even an indictment.
 

BGIF

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AP IMPACT: PSU culture explained away Sandusky - Toshiba

You can trust the AP, right? This article basically cuts through the BS and gets to the heart of it all... which is that EVERYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT SCHOOL knew or should have known what was going on. But they didn't do anything because football is their revenue stream. Case closed.

You can trust the AP, right?

Since when? Just wait until there's an investigation on a project you're associated with and a reporter asks you question. Be sure to tape record because it's unlikely to read the way you responded.


Case closed?

Because 3 reporters read the news articles written by others? So much for due process.

How about the School Board that banned Sandusky from their premises but didn't notify authorities?

Parents that called school boards but not the authorities?

McCreary puts the sneakers in a locker and left after having "heard" or "seen" something he though wrong BUT he didn't leave with the kid or call police to come right then?

The Second Mile Foundation that got reports and did nothing?

Investigators/Prosecutors that dropped the case or punted it to another jurisdiction?

The now Governor who was a prosecutor and enjoys pointing finger in any direction but his?

Etc, etc, etc.
 

IrishLax

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Where?

In the article cited.


Why wasn't that something any of us have seen in print until now?
Ah, maybe because this is a prosecutorial activity and not a defense one. You were all over the Lacrosse Team Rape Case demanding due process. Now you rush to judgement faster than that prosecutor running for election.


Give you a date and link to his grand jury testimony?

Grand Jury testimony is sealed. It's not public. Most of the "testimony" in the Grand Jury Presentment is the Grand Jury's characterization of what took place with only snippets of actual testimony from witnesses they cherry picked. In a Presentment they make an argument that there is grounds to warrant further legal activity, NOT that a person is guilty. NOTE: A Presentment is NOT the same as an Indictment.

There's an old saw that says, "A skilled prosecutor can get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich." This was NOT even an indictment.

Yeah OK in all fairness I read your article quickly so I'll just cede that everything exactly how you say it is. Point BGIF.

COOUNTERPOINT: Sandusky's Lawyer: If You Believe Witness, "I Suggest You Dial 1-800-REALITY." That's A Gay Phone Sex Line. [UPDATE]
 

IrishLax

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You can trust the AP, right?

Since when? Just wait until there's an investigation on a project you're associated with and a reporter asks you question. Be sure to tape record because it's unlikely to read the way you responded.

Eh, I don't really get what you're saying here, so I'll leave it alone than try to address a point that maybe you're not making. As an aside, you do know that my moonlighting job is as a journalist, right? I've linked articles/blogs on here before that I've written for Inside Lacrosse, ESPN, etc.. So yes, I understand how stuff works.


Case closed?

Because 3 reporters read the news articles written by others? So much for due process.

How about the School Board that banned Sandusky from their premises but didn't notify authorities?

Parents that called school boards but not the authorities?

McCreary puts the sneakers in a locker and left after having "heard" or "seen" something he though wrong BUT he didn't leave with the kid or call police to come right then?

The Second Mile Foundation that got reports and did nothing?

Investigators/Prosecutors that dropped the case or punted it to another jurisdiction?

The now Governor who was a prosecutor and enjoys pointing finger in any direction but his?

Etc, etc, etc.

See, I think you're missing my point, which is not that "everyone is exactly this much guilty and did exactly XYZ." I mean that it is "case closed" that Jerry Sandusky is guilty. Period. It's that common sense and a preponderance of evidence (not good enough for a court of law, but good enough in my book for now) suggests that Jerry Sandusky is very guilty. As for everyone else, who knows. Because it's cover your butt time now.

The problem with "proof" these days are the CSI shows and the Johnny Cochran defense. CSI shows have made everyone look for a smoking gun (when one rarely exists). This is half of how Casey Anthony got off free. The other half was the Johnny Cochran defense where you obfuscate that core question of guilt or innocence so effectively that jurors/the public/whoever can't make heads or tails of what they're even debating and find the person innocent. OJ got off by the defense not even trying to defend OJ, per se, but instead painting the cops as racists and putting the prosecution on the defensive.



On another note, this case is literally the polar opposite of Duke lacrosse. And if you think otherwise you need to go do some reading on what happened there.

At Duke you had 1 person (a convicted criminal, who was being arrested again at the time she made her claim, and made up a story to try to get herself out of trouble) make a claim that was immediately refuted by her friend that was there as well as every other witness... but a prosecutor went out of his way to try to attack people he knew full well were innocent... and the locals/school presumed guilt and basically lynch mobbed the accused.

At Penn State you have a half dozen plus independent accounts by people with no blemish to their reputation, corroborated in some instances by other witnesses... prosecutors who did not rush to prosecute and, if anything, hedged towards not doing so for a long while... and locals/school that stood up for an accused serial sodomizer and the people who protected him in the face of a preponderance of evidence.

Apples, meet oranges.
 

NYMIKE6

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Where there is smoke there is fire. There is no way he should be driving to McDonalds for morning coffee. He should be locked up.
 

NYIrish14

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ESPN just reported that McQueary testified in court that he did indeed tell Paterno that he saw Sandusky performing severe sexual acts with a young boy in the shower. I know many PSU fans think that Paterno did not get all the facts from McQueary, however thats not the case anymore. McQueary stated that he didnt say what the actual acts were, out of respect to Paterno, but he did convey that they were sexual. Either way Paterno obviosly deserves plenty of blame. Now Joe Pa lovers cant back him anymore.
 

BGIF

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ESPN just reported that McQueary testified in court that he did indeed tell Paterno that he saw Sandusky performing severe sexual acts with a young boy in the shower. I know many PSU fans think that Paterno did not get all the facts from McQueary, however thats not the case anymore. McQueary stated that he didnt say what the actual acts were, out of respect to Paterno, but he did convey that they were sexual. Either way Paterno obviosly deserves plenty of blame. Now Joe Pa lovers cant back him anymore.

MSNBC ran it earlier this morning but provided no substance, no quote. I did find that AP article which confirms McQueary didn't tell Paterno what he testified today to.

McQueary: I Believe I Saw Sandusky Molesting Boy | Fox News

McQueary said he reported what he saw to coach Joe Paterno.

He said he did not give Paterno explicit details of what he believed he'd seen, saying he wouldn't have used terms like sodomy or anal intercourse out of respect for the longtime coach.

He said Paterno told him he'd "done the right thing" by reporting what he saw. The head coach appeared shocked and saddened and slumped back in his chair, McQueary said.


If McQueary withheld details whether due to Paterno's age or for whatever reason I fail to see Paterno's responsibility for what he wasn't told. Did McQueary see a rape or didn't he? Did he report a rape to Paterno or didn't he? It doesn't read like he did. Paterno apparently reported McQueary's comments (not what he wasn't told) up the chain of command as you are supposed to do.

"He believes he saw ... " That's where the defense attorney asks McQueary under cross, "Did you actually SEE it or do you just BELIEVE you saw it? Which one is it? What DID you SEE?" "If you saw a rape why didn't you stop? Why didn't you call the police immediately? Why did't you protect the victim" That is the crux of Curley and Schultz's defense in their trial. Did McQueary beat around the bush with them as he now says he did with Paterno or was he candid and explicit, leaving no doubt?

I'm neither a PSU and/or Paterno lover nor hater and find the inclusion of your smear of someone with reasonable doubt indicative of your hatred.
 

woolybug25

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If McQueary withheld details whether due to Paterno's age or for whatever reason I fail to see Paterno's responsibility for what he wasn't told. Did McQueary see a rape or didn't he? Did he report a rape to Paterno or didn't he? It doesn't read like he did. Paterno apparently reported McQueary's comments (not what he wasn't told) up the chain of command as you are supposed to do.

So Paterno has no responsibility of finding out the facts of an incident where he was told something inappropriate (whether specific in nature or not) happened between a 40+ year old man and a 10 year old in a shower?
 

GoldenIsThyFame

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Live updates from courtroom: No more witnesses to be called - AltoonaMirror.com - Altoona, PA | News, Sports, Jobs, Community Information - The Altoona Mirror

What the ****!
In Gary Schultz's testimony before the grand jury, he said not all inappropriate conduct is criminal.

When asked about a man grabbing a young boy's genitals, "I don't know if it's criminal," he responded. "I can imagine instances where an adult man would be in a shower with young boys."

McQueary had called Paterno the day after said he he witnessed the incident.

"I said, `Coach, I need to come to your house and talk to you about something,'" McQueary testified. "I went over to his house, sat at his kitchen table and told him I had saw Jerry ... it was extremely sexual in nature."

He said he witnessed something "outrageous and terrible."

"I went to Coach Paterno because I knew he would handle it the right way, what I thought was the right way."

McQueary said he was "shocked, horrified, and to be frank with you probably not thinking straight. I was distraught" after hearing sounds and glancing into the showers several times on the night he witnessed Sandusky in the shower with a young boy.

"I stepped back, didn't want to see it anymore to be frank with you," he testified Friday morning. "I know they saw me. They looked directly in my eyes, both of them."

"I did not see insertion, nor was there any verbage, protest, screaming or yelling," McQueary said.


I say burn the place to the ground.
 
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GoldenIsThyFame

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“@BFeldmanCBS: Wow RT @PatriotNews Paterno: ordinarily would have called someone right away, but it was Saturday & didn't want to interrupt their weekend.”

“@PeterAlexander: #BREAKING Paterno: "I knew innapropriate action was taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster."”
 

Cali_domer

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“@BFeldmanCBS: Wow RT @PatriotNews Paterno: ordinarily would have called someone right away, but it was Saturday & didn't want to interrupt their weekend.”

“@PeterAlexander: #BREAKING Paterno: "I knew innapropriate action was taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster."”
Wow.
 

NYIrish14

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MSNBC ran it earlier this morning but provided no substance, no quote. I did find that AP article which confirms McQueary didn't tell Paterno what he testified today to.

McQueary: I Believe I Saw Sandusky Molesting Boy | Fox News




If McQueary withheld details whether due to Paterno's age or for whatever reason I fail to see Paterno's responsibility for what he wasn't told. Did McQueary see a rape or didn't he? Did he report a rape to Paterno or didn't he? It doesn't read like he did. Paterno apparently reported McQueary's comments (not what he wasn't told) up the chain of command as you are supposed to do.

"He believes he saw ... " That's where the defense attorney asks McQueary under cross, "Did you actually SEE it or do you just BELIEVE you saw it? Which one is it? What DID you SEE?" "If you saw a rape why didn't you stop? Why didn't you call the police immediately? Why did't you protect the victim" That is the crux of Curley and Schultz's defense in their trial. Did McQueary beat around the bush with them as he now says he did with Paterno or was he candid and explicit, leaving no doubt?

I'm neither a PSU and/or Paterno lover nor hater and find the inclusion of your smear of someone with reasonable doubt indicative of your hatred.

After reading what I posted how do you feel that there is hatred on my part? I have no hatred towards Joe Pa or Penn State. I just stated that Paterno obviously knew enough and now even the most loyal PSU fans cant support him any longer. I probably shouldnt have said that he gave Paterno ALL the facts. What I meant to say was that he told Paterno it was a sexual act with a young boy. Since he was told it was a sexual act with a young boy, he should have done more. Thats it.
 
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BGIF

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So Paterno has no responsibility of finding out the facts of an incident where he was told something inappropriate (whether specific in nature or not) happened between a 40+ year old man and a 10 year old in a shower?

Why should Paterno have responsibility for "finding out the facts of an incident"? The eyewitness was a grown man, 28 years old, who had already discussed the matter with his father and another physician.

If YOU witness a crime wooly, is it your boss's job to hold an investigation?

Is it his responsibilty to contact the police or YOURS?

Based upon what Paterno was apparently told he contacted the proper authorities in the University according to University S.O.P (the incident took place on campus and he notified the head of the campus police).

Finding Paterno responsible for what he wasn't told is similar to holding Kelly responsible for not instructing videographers on the proper use of scissor jack towers. That's somebody else's responsibility. In both cases it wasn't the coaches responsibility but they're easy to jump on.
 

IrishLax

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Why should Paterno have responsibility for "finding out the facts of an incident"? The eyewitness was a grown man, 28 years old, who had already discussed the matter with his father and another physician.

If YOU witness a crime wooly, is it your boss's job to hold an investigation?

Is it his responsibilty to contact the police or YOURS?

Based upon what Paterno was apparently told he contacted the proper authorities in the University according to University S.O.P (the incident took place on campus and he notified the head of the campus police).

Finding Paterno responsible for what he wasn't told is similar to holding Kelly responsible for not instructing videographers on the proper use of scissor jack towers. That's somebody else's responsibility. In both cases it wasn't the coaches responsibility but they're easy to jump on.

Based on testimony I agree with this. I think Paterno and McQueary both could've done "more" but the onus really lies with the higher ups/campus police who seem to have wanted to 'see no evil.' My favorite quote of the day came from former senior VP Schultz:

Schultz also said he didn't think it was criminal for a grown man to grab a child's genitals.
 
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