General team info

[snoopdog]

My bad - excuses on how everyone drops his passes, except the DBs they get lucky when they catch one of his - like Moses parting the Red Sea level miracle.

Actually BW could definitely have 3 more int's this season. One for a walk in pk 6

 

[Dizzyphil]

anybody ever read this guy? first time I've heard of him.......




https://thebiglead.com/2018/09/18/is-notre-dame-any-good/

 

[BGIF]

Today's stuff here is why I try to stick to Lep Lounge and being silly.... y'all need Jesus.

Damn Republican!

Micheal Che and Kathy Griffin send their regards.

 

[ACamp1900]

Damn Republican!

Micheal Che and Kathy Griffin send their regards.

Republican't

 

[matman4593]

This year he's attempted 76 passes. He's completed 42 of those passes to ND players. He's completed 4 to the opposing team. So his completion rate is up to 55.3% this year. His INT rate this year is 5.3% of his attempted passes. After all, we are talking about this years team, this years WRs and this years INTs. So if he's at a career rate of 2.8%, 2.1% coming into this season, he's regressed a lot. His INT rate this year is 2.5 times what his career rate was coming in.

Looking at BWs stats without also including his rushing stats is a useless excercise. He isn't a pocket passer and never will be. He's a dual threat QB who is best when he's given the freedom to jet out of the pocket when his first and second reads (admitedly almost always just his first) arent open. His interceptions in the Ball St game came from Kelly and Long trying to have BW work on going through his progressions-- his weakness-- instead of taking off after read 1 and 2 like he normally would. I don't read much of anything into that stat.

Consider also that his completion % has inceased this year even with the dismal WR play we've seen thus far. IMO the departure of Stepherson really hurt this offense's potential and Wimbush would have a better year with him merely running deep routes and drawing DB attention away from the other targets at the very least. Playing Chris Finke is laughable and really handicaps this passing game and BW's potential as a passer.

 

[irishog77]

Looking at BWs stats without also including his rushing stats is a useless excercise. He isn't a pocket passer and never will be. He's a dual threat QB who is best when he's given the freedom to jet out of the pocket when his first and second reads (admitedly almost always just his first) arent open. His interceptions in the Ball St game came from Kelly and Long trying to have BW work on going through his progressions-- his weakness-- instead of taking off after read 1 and 2 like he normally would. I don't read much of anything into that stat.

Consider also that his completion % has inceased this year even with the dismal WR play we've seen thus far. IMO the departure of Stepherson really hurt this offense's potential and Wimbush would have a better year with him merely running deep routes and drawing DB attention away from the other targets at the very least. Playing Chris Finke is laughable and really handicaps this passing game and BW's potential as a passer.

This may be true, but his rushing stats aren't great. Taking into account his 136 yards rushing, on 49 attempts, don't all of a sudden paint an entirely new picture of him.

 

[Rack Em]

This may be true, but his rushing stats aren't great. Taking into account his 136 yards rushing, on 49 attempts, don't all of a sudden paint an entirely new picture of him.

Bob Ross could paint a new picture of Wimbush...

 

[Irishnuke]

Eh. One of those INTs really should have been caught against Ball St.

Sure, but there’s probably half a dozen other throws that should have been picked off.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Looking at BWs stats without also including his rushing stats is a useless excercise. He isn't a pocket passer and never will be. He's a dual threat QB who is best when he's given the freedom to jet out of the pocket when his first and second reads (admitedly almost always just his first) arent open. His interceptions in the Ball St game came from Kelly and Long trying to have BW work on going through his progressions-- his weakness-- instead of taking off after read 1 and 2 like he normally would. I don't read much of anything into that stat.

Consider also that his completion % has inceased this year even with the dismal WR play we've seen thus far. IMO the departure of Stepherson really hurt this offense's potential and Wimbush would have a better year with him merely running deep routes and drawing DB attention away from the other targets at the very least. Playing Chris Finke is laughable and really handicaps this passing game and BW's potential as a passer.

Considering the initial discussion was based on a list of tea with more INTs than TD passes, his rushing stats weren't relevant

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Sure, but there’s probably half a dozen other throws that should have been picked off.

If they weren't picked, then they don't count.

Close only counts in..... horse shoes and hand grenades.

 

[PANDFAN]

This year he's attempted 76 passes. He's completed 42 of those passes to ND players. He's completed 4 to the opposing team. So his completion rate is up to 55.3% this year. His INT rate this year is 5.3% of his attempted passes. After all, we are talking about this years team, this years WRs and this years INTs. So if he's at a career rate of 2.8%, 2.1% coming into this season, he's regressed a lot. His INT rate this year is 2.5 times what his career rate was coming in.

the sample size is 3 games vs a full year, which one game plan was for him to remain in the pocket and be a passer...unfortunately this isn't his forte and needs to be involved in the running game in order for the defense to give him better looks for passing. one of the things that has improved overall is his completion %...he had only 1 game last year better than his worst completion % this year....to say he has regressed is completely inaccurate

DATE OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD RAW QBR ADJ QBR
9/1 Michigan W 24-17 12 22 170 54.5 43 1 1 125.4 19 59 3.1 22 0 62.8 79.6
9/8 Ball State W 24-16 17 31 297 54.8 27 0 3 116.0 11 -7 -0.6 9 0 21.5 15.8
9/15 Vanderbilt W 22-17 13 23 122 56.5 32 0 0 101.1 19 84 4.4 17 1 70.2 67.9

 

[RDU Irish]

This may be true, but his rushing stats aren't great. Taking into account his 136 yards rushing, on 49 attempts, don't all of a sudden paint an entirely new picture of him.

Amazing what happens when people start taking away his strengths and making him beat them with his weaknesses. He is not Cam Newton or Lamar Jackson - he is a poor man's J.T. Barrett. I don't see the all world athlete argument at all - he is an undersized QB with an above average arm strength, below average accuracy, below average reaction/read ability and above average running ability (for a QB, maybe average for a RB). A field general he is not - give me a field general 10/10.

I have no confidence he can consistently throw over an effectively loaded box. Wake Forest might be bad enough on defense that we can run over them anyway. 100% of the credit will go to Wimbush and his 200 yards on the ground. Then Stanford will take away the run and everyone will be apoplectic that we have no plan when we get punched in the mouth.

 

[RDU Irish]

I mean there is a big difference between making every WR/TE/RB/QB an offensive weapon to be reckoned with and making everyone a blocker for a QB running around.

 

[IrishLion]

Amazing what happens when people start taking away his strengths and making him beat them with his weaknesses. He is not Cam Newton or Lamar Jackson - he is a poor man's J.T. Barrett. I don't see the all world athlete argument at all - he is an undersized QB with an above average arm strength, below average accuracy, below average reaction/read ability and above average running ability (for a QB, maybe average for a RB). A field general he is not - give me a field general 10/10.

I have no confidence he can consistently throw over an effectively loaded box. Wake Forest might be bad enough on defense that we can run over them anyway. 100% of the credit will go to Wimbush and his 200 yards on the ground. Then Stanford will take away the run and everyone will be apoplectic that we have no plan when we get punched in the mouth.

We are going to live or die by Chip Long's playcalling this year. We know Wimbush's strengths and limitations, so it's up to Long to keep the offense on-schedule.

Playcalling was great early against Michigan, Ball State, and Vandy... but as soon as we were past the first two drives in each of those games, Long got too cute at times.

And that's the biggest thing holding the team back when the offense stalls... Long gets too cute into the big 'setup' plays that he wants to run, instead of just continuing the aggressive and fast-read stuff that he scripts for the first two drives.

We we were running the ball really well against Vandy, and TJ Jr was averaging like 7 YPC in the second half... but as soon as ND crosses midfield, he calls dumb stuff that stalls the momentum without the defense even needing to make a play.

Oh, we're gashing them for 8 yards on every first down? LET'S THROW THEM A CURVEBALL AND RUN A SMOKE SCREEN TO THE SIDE WHERE THERE ARE THREE DEFENDERS AND ONLY ONE BLOCKER.

The smoke screen almost never works. But Long loves to go back to it. It worked once against Vandy, and it only worked because Weishar held a good block, and Finke made a defender miss after a poor throw from Wimbush.... the poor throw actually resulted in a weird setup that was perfect for Finke's skill set running.

9 times out of 10 though, it kills the offensive momentum, and we end up in 2nd-and-long or 3rd-and-long because we are the only team in the country that doesn't know how to play the numbers advantage on a smoke screen.

Give Wimbush three routes to throw:
1. Curl
2. Crosser (In or Drag)
3. Go

If the first read isn't there (curl or go), tell him to go to the next read if he's comfortable (crosser), or to take off as soon as he gets antsy. That's the best way to run the offense.


TL;DR
Chip Long is great on the script for the first two drives, but ass after that. Our success depends on him more than it does Wimbush, because we all know what Wimbush can and cannot do.

 

[RDU Irish]

We are going to live or die by Chip Long's playcalling this year. We know Wimbush's strengths and limitations, so it's up to Long to keep the offense on-schedule.

Playcalling was great early against Michigan, Ball State, and Vandy... but as soon as we were past the first two drives in each of those games, Long got too cute at times.

And that's the biggest thing holding the team back when the offense stalls... Long gets too cute into the big 'setup' plays that he wants to run, instead of just continuing the aggressive and fast-read stuff that he scripts for the first two drives.

We we were running the ball really well against Vandy, and TJ Jr was averaging like 7 YPC in the second half... but as soon as ND crosses midfield, he calls dumb stuff that stalls the momentum without the defense even needing to make a play.

Oh, we're gashing them for 8 yards on every first down? LET'S THROW THEM A CURVEBALL AND RUN A SMOKE SCREEN TO THE SIDE WHERE THERE ARE THREE DEFENDERS AND ONLY ONE BLOCKER.

The smoke screen almost never works. But Long loves to go back to it. It worked once against Vandy, and it only worked because Weishar held a good block, and Finke made a defender miss after a poor throw from Wimbush.... the poor throw actually resulted in a weird setup that was perfect for Finke's skill set running.

9 times out of 10 though, it kills the offensive momentum, and we end up in 2nd-and-long or 3rd-and-long because we are the only team in the country that doesn't know how to play the numbers advantage on a smoke screen.

Give Wimbush three routes to throw:
1. Curl
2. Crosser (In or Drag)
3. Go

If the first read isn't there (curl or go), tell him to go to the next read if he's comfortable (crosser), or to take off as soon as he gets antsy. That's the best way to run the offense.


TL;DR
Chip Long is great on the script for the first two drives, but ass after that. Our success depends on him more than it does Wimbush, because we all know what Wimbush can and cannot do.

You are as bad as a little league coach who thinks his kid is the best player on the team when the reality is the opposite.

 

[Free Manera]

Give Wimbush three routes to throw:
1. Curl
2. Crosser (In or Drag)
3. Go

If the first read isn't there (curl or go), tell him to go to the next read if he's comfortable (crosser), or to take off as soon as he gets antsy. That's the best way to run the offense.

I feel like Wimbush needs Leach style air raid reads, i.e. Peak at your deep route to see if there is a high safety, if there is you go to your triangle read which is basically looking for green grass around each receiver (points of the triangle). He is not nearly accurate enough to be an air raid quarterback and live by this, but maybe it gives him a chance to make quick reads when he does have to throw.

 

[greyhammer90]

You are as bad as a little league coach who thinks his kid is the best player on the team when the reality is the opposite.

I don't even know what this means in the context of this thread but it's so specific, petty, and mean-spirited that I'm impressed.

 

[RDU Irish]

I don't even know what this means in the context of this thread but it's so specific, petty, and mean-spirited that I'm impressed.

Fair - Not meant to be a personal assault but directed collectively at all the BW fanboys that are convinced he is still a Heisman caliber QB only held back by bad coaching. Impossible to imagine our coaches are competent but have two hands and a leg tied behind their back by a fatally flawed QB. Secondary jab at CBK's loyalty over production tendencies.

 

[ACamp1900]

You are as bad as a little league coach who thinks his kid is the best player on the team when the reality is the opposite.

Missed an opportunity... should have gone Little League PRESIDENT.

 

[RDU Irish]

Missed an opportunity... should have gone Little League PRESIDENT.

Nah - they have the worst job on the planet - the coaches create their hell. Will go to gear grinding with my experience last night. Moms and coaches are the worst evaluators of their own kid's talents - just like anyone who thinks BW is anything but a below average QB at best.

 

[Luckylucci]

Fair - Not meant to be a personal assault but directed collectively at all the BW fanboys that are convinced he is still a Heisman caliber QB only held back by bad coaching. Impossible to imagine our coaches are competent but have two hands and a leg tied behind their back by a fatally flawed QB. Secondary jab at CBK's loyalty over production tendencies.

Not sure where in Lion's post he said or insinuated Wimbush was a Heisman caliber QB?

 

[Irish Insanity]

the sample size is 3 games vs a full year, which one game plan was for him to remain in the pocket and be a passer...unfortunately this isn't his forte and needs to be involved in the running game in order for the defense to give him better looks for passing. one of the things that has improved overall is his completion %...he had only 1 game last year better than his worst completion % this year....to say he has regressed is completely inaccurate

DATE OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD RAW QBR ADJ QBR
9/1 Michigan W 24-17 12 22 170 54.5 43 1 1 125.4 19 59 3.1 22 0 62.8 79.6
9/8 Ball State W 24-16 17 31 297 54.8 27 0 3 116.0 11 -7 -0.6 9 0 21.5 15.8
9/15 Vanderbilt W 22-17 13 23 122 56.5 32 0 0 101.1 19 84 4.4 17 1 70.2 67.9

Maybe you're correct. Saying he's regressed a lot is an understatement. My post was in response to a discussion about his INTs. The part of my post at the end you bolded and responded to was in a sentence specifically talking about his INT percentage. Which has more than doubled. Saying he's regressed a lot in that respect is a HUGE understatement.

 

[snoopdog]

BW has regressed, or rather the qb play has regressed since the first half of the 2017 season.

The question is, causation?

Is it the play calling, or the game planning, or the general design of the Offensive, or BW's inability to operate it properly?

I don't claim to know the answer. But if I am Chip Long and want to be considered an up and comer going forward...I am working extra overtime getting it fixed.

 

[RDU Irish]

Not sure where in Lion's post he said or insinuated Wimbush was a Heisman caliber QB?

Its called hyperbole - a figure of speech that uses extreme exaggeration to make a point or show emphasis. It is the opposite of understatement.

Sorry it is my best defense for battling the blind.

 

[IrishLion]

You are as bad as a little league coach who thinks his kid is the best player on the team when the reality is the opposite.

Its called hyperbole - a figure of speech that uses extreme exaggeration to make a point or show emphasis. It is the opposite of understatement.

Sorry it is my best defense for battling the blind.

Not sure why I'm the 'blind,' as I'm not saying Wimbush is a top-flight QB, nor am I going to bat for him as if I'm a fanboy.

I was offering my ideas on how to maximize his limited range as QB, and the onus falls on Chip Long for that, since it appears that they are sticking with Wimbush. If you're sticking with the exceptional athlete that limits your passing playbook, it's on you to make it happen with playcalling. It's Long's bed, so now he's got to sleep in it.

Not sure why that's an idea that you got upset about lol.

 

[PANDFAN]

Its called hyperbole - a figure of speech that uses extreme exaggeration to make a point or show emphasis. It is the opposite of understatement.

Sorry it is my best defense for battling the blind.

 

[Luckylucci]

Its called hyperbole - a figure of speech that uses extreme exaggeration to make a point or show emphasis. It is the opposite of understatement.

Sorry it is my best defense for battling the blind.

I'm aware of what hyperbole is, but that is why that post was so ridiculous. There was no reason to direct that hyperbole at Lion after what he posted. He posted something completely logical and you are the only one that responded this way.

To me, that looks like it's agenda driven. Not even coming close to accurately responding to what the poster said and instead using hyperbole to manipulate the conversation. Weird.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm aware of what hyperbole is, but that is why that post was so ridiculous. There was no reason to direct that hyperbole at Lion after what he posted. He posted something completely logical and you are the only one that responded this way.

To me, that looks like it's agenda driven. Not even coming close to accurately responding to what the poster said and instead using hyperbole to manipulate the conversation. Weird.

Right? I wasn't singing Brandon's praises... I was doing the opposite lol.

I acknowledged that he's limited in what he can do as a passer, but since the coaching staff is sticking with him (maybe?), it's on them to figure out how to make that work.

And we've seen that they can make it work when they are on-script and keeping the reads fast and simple. Brandon looks good when that's the case. But Long doesn't do a good job of building on that, or adjusting to do more of the same when it's needed.

Long needs to be better as a playcaller if they are going to stick with Brandon as the primary QB.

If they were to decide to flip-flop the QB rotation, and suddenly Book is out there a majority of the time, and they bring Wimbush on to present a different option in certain situations? Long has a little more to work with in terms of setting up the passing offense. But that's not what they've been doing to this point.

 

[RDU Irish]

Not sure why I'm the 'blind,' as I'm not saying Wimbush is a top-flight QB, nor am I going to bat for him as if I'm a fanboy.

I was offering my ideas on how to maximize his limited range as QB, and the onus falls on Chip Long for that, since it appears that they are sticking with Wimbush. If you're sticking with the exceptional athlete that limits your passing playbook, it's on you to make it happen with playcalling. It's Long's bed, so now he's got to sleep in it.

Not sure why that's an idea that you got upset about lol.

Sorry - Conflated your post with so many before it (not from you) that have nothing but excuses for Wimbush and can't acknowledge he is not a good QB who has had plenty of time to develop. You are fair in pointing out his many of his limitations however I think he is a good athlete - not exceptional. Exaggerating his athleticism is creeping up my list of pet peeves.

I don't see the high ceiling others see. I see someone serviceable in defeating over-matched opponents. For quality opponents I think he is easily schemed for and shut down. I also don't think he gets the most out of his teammates - some might call that leadership. Wreaks of the Malik Zaire love affair that IMO held this team back vs. giving the reigns to the guy in the NFL now.

 

[IrishLion]

Sorry - Conflated your post with so many before it (not from you) that have nothing but excuses for Wimbush and can't acknowledge he is not a good QB who has had plenty of time to develop. You are fair in pointing out his many of his limitations however I think he is a good athlete - not exceptional. Exaggerating his athleticism is creeping up my list of pet peeves.

I don't see the high ceiling others see. I see someone serviceable in defeating over-matched opponents. For quality opponents I think he is easily schemed for and shut down. I also don't think he gets the most out of his teammates - some might call that leadership. Wreaks of the Malik Zaire love affair that IMO held this team back vs. giving the reigns to the guy in the NFL now.

I think he's an exceptional athlete, and I'll battle you all day on that lol.

Once he's in the open field, he's as good as anybody... QB, RB, WR, or otherwise, IMO.

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