General team info

[Irish Insanity]

Didn't Aaron Lynch only have 5 sacks?


*** 5.5 sacks and 7 TFL. Great for a freshman. If Trumbetti does exactly that this year, most will say he had a "nice" season. Lynch's '11 season is about 1/3 of what Joey Bosa did last year.

#ISTILLBELIEVE

 

[ND NYC]

remember reading somewhere (ISD?) about BVG defense...and it wasn't so much about "getting sacks" per se....but moreso doing things (pressure, looks etc) to make the qb make "bad decisions" (rush throws, make wrong reads etc).
anyone else remember this article? think it was right before lsu game

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I'm not sold on Bosa. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but he's not as great as everyone thinks. Look at his stats vs. decent teams last year (which are hard to find on OSU's schedule), he disappears. He racked up 6.5 of those sacks in three consecutive weeks against Rutgets, PSU, and Illinois (who won a collective 8 Big Ten games and all finished below .500 in the conference).

Would I take him? Yep. Would I trade someone like Lynch, Tuitt, or even Day? Eh, I don't know. I'm just not a big believer that he can play well against good competition. And frankly there's nothing to prove me wrong yet.

I'm more sold on Bosa than anyone we have at this point. He's a proven commodity.

remember reading somewhere (ISD?) about BVG defense...and it wasn't so much about "getting sacks" per se....but moreso doing things (pressure, looks etc) to make the qb make "bad decisions" (rush throws, make wrong reads etc).
anyone else remember this article? think it was right before lsu game

The only people who say "it isn't about getting sacks" are people who can't get them. There is no better way to rattle a QB/force him into bad decisions than hit him a few times. His internal clock starts to speed up then every other "trick" used will be that much more effective.

 

[koonja]

I'm more sold on Bosa than anyone we have at this point. He's a proven commodity.



The only people who say "it isn't about getting sacks" are people who can't get them. There is no better way to rattle a QB/force him into bad decisions than hit him a few times. His internal clock starts to speed up then every other "trick" used will be that much more effective.

Preach brotha.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I'm not sold on Bosa. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but he's not as great as everyone thinks. Look at his stats vs. decent teams last year (which are hard to find on OSU's schedule), he disappears. He racked up 6.5 of those sacks in three consecutive weeks against Rutgets, PSU, and Illinois (who won a collective 8 Big Ten games and all finished below .500 in the conference).

Would I take him? Yep. Would I trade someone like Lynch, Tuitt, or even Day? Eh, I don't know. I'm just not a big believer that he can play well against good competition. And frankly there's nothing to prove me wrong yet.

Um...the kid is going to be a top 5 pick in the NFL draft, just saying.


Sent via tapatalk

 

[NDdomer2]

Um...the kid is going to be a top 5 pick in the NFL draft, just saying.


Sent via tapatalk

Ryan Leaf was THE top pick in the draft, just saying.

 

[Cackalacky]

remember reading somewhere (ISD?) about BVG defense...and it wasn't so much about "getting sacks" per se....but moreso doing things (pressure, looks etc) to make the qb make "bad decisions" (rush throws, make wrong reads etc).
anyone else remember this article? think it was right before lsu game

Yes. I recall reading something like that. He would also do things like drop the NT into the MLB spot and rush all three LBs. Any person outside of an OL is a great matchup on a NT backtracking in open field. LOL

Surprise !!!

 

[NDinL.A.]

Ryan Leaf was THE top pick in the draft, just saying.

It was actually Peyton Manning.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm more sold on Bosa than anyone we have at this point. He's a proven commodity.

The fact remains, he hasn't proven that he can be a factor against good teams. As mentioned before, the guy clearly disappears against elite talent. It's happened every single time.

The only people who say "it isn't about getting sacks" are people who can't get them. There is no better way to rattle a QB/force him into bad decisions than hit him a few times. His internal clock starts to speed up then every other "trick" used will be that much more effective.

And the last Super Bowl Colts team, who's entire defense was designed around inside pressure that pushed the QB outside of the pocket and into bad decisions. Yeah, it's great to convert pressure into sacks, but I'll take the defense that had the opposing QB on the run all game with no sacks, then the team that let the opposing QB throw dimes all over the field sans a few plays where they caught the offensive line out of assignment and got some sacks.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I'm not sold on Bosa. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but he's not as great as everyone thinks. Look at his stats vs. decent teams last year (which are hard to find on OSU's schedule), he disappears. He racked up 6.5 of those sacks in three consecutive weeks against Rutgets, PSU, and Illinois (who won a collective 8 Big Ten games and all finished below .500 in the conference).

Would I take him? Yep. Would I trade someone like Lynch, Tuitt, or even Day? Eh, I don't know. I'm just not a big believer that he can play well against good competition. And frankly there's nothing to prove me wrong yet.

It would depend on the scenario and the defense we're running. Just out of 4-3 base, if Lynch wasn't such a total headcase, I'd take him over Bosa especially with Gilmore coaching. Bosa is a better run stopper, but Lynch is a guy who could've easily broke Tuck's record. Tuitt, had he not gotten complacent, I would also take, but in a 4-3 he's almost certainly an interior player. Day, in terms of ability, I may or may not take, but again, that's dependent on need and defensive scheme. Another thing though is that Day needs to have a healthy season. If he can do that, he's going to put up insane numbers. You are right that Bosa padded his stats a good bit against mediocre teams. Alabama shut him down completely.

 

[Crazy Balki]

The fact remains, he hasn't proven that he can be a factor against good teams. As mentioned before, the guy clearly disappears against elite talent. It's happened every single time.



And the last Super Bowl Colts team, who's entire defense was designed around inside pressure that pushed the QB outside of the pocket and into bad decisions. Yeah, it's great to convert pressure into sacks, but I'll take the defense that had the opposing QB on the run all game with no sacks, then the team that let the opposing QB throw dimes all over the field sans a few plays where they caught the offensive line out of assignment and got some sacks.

Agreed. And that's precisely what happened last season with us when Jones and Day got hurt. We're relying on 2 brand new starters (Okwara/Trumbetti and Rochell) to apply pressure, while the interior (Utupo, FR Cage, rFR Matuska, FR Hayes) couldn't do much of anything to get penetration.

 

[NDdomer2]

It was actually Peyton Manning.

Mea culpa. Point remains, just cuz ur getting drafted high doesn't really mean shit.

 

[D-BOE34]

Bosa is a player and a damn good one at that. You attack the best player and beat everyone else. Bama did it against Manti and every good team will do that against Bosa. Sorry but him disappearing againt elite talent doesn't shock me. I would expect that!

 

[Buster Bluth]

I think the reason he could bust in the NFL is drugs. The man like his Marijuana and molly, so I'm told.

 

[woolybug25]

I think the reason he could bust in the NFL is drugs. The man like his Marijuana and molly, so I'm told.

 

[Luckylucci]

From what I've read I think the whole Bosa family is ridiculous. With that said, what Joey will do or Ryan Leaf did in the NFL has nothing to do with the conversation as that has no bearing on the hypothetical which is if they'd help ND win ball games. Secondly, we lost to NW because our defense got absolutely shredded by a terrible offense. So, even if you believe he disappears against elite talent, NW surely doesn't count as that. Maybe if we have a substantially better DL in that game we win. That's makes 10 on the season and much more respectable.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I think the reason he could bust in the NFL is drugs. The man like his Marijuana and molly, so I'm told.

My man

 

[irishfan]

Bruce Feldman at Fox Sports has us #4 in his updated preseason rankings. This is after visiting ND for a practice and also based on people he has spoken with who view ND as a contender this season.

I don't think #4 is all that crazy. There are only a dozen of teams who I think realistically have any shot of making the playoffs this season:

Independent: Notre Dame
B1G: Ohio State, Michigan State
ACC: Florida State, Clemson
PAC-12: Oregon, USC
BIG 12: Baylor, TCU
SEC: Alabama, Auburn, Georgia

Teams like Oklahoma, LSU, Ole Miss, A&M, Stanford, Wisconsin, VA Tech could shock people and end the season 11-1 or 12-1 but those are pretty big long shots. #4 is higher than we should be but I don't think it's a bad ranking.

 

[Luckylucci]

Bruce Feldman at Fox Sports has us #4 in his updated preseason rankings. This is after visiting ND for a practice and also based on people he has spoken with who view ND as a contender this season.

He said in that interview that was posted on IE last week that the NFL scouts who have been to camp believe we have to top 10 picks in Stanley and Smith. IMO, it sounded like a lot of his belief is because we have a lot of NFL talent on the roster that should translate to wins. Lets hope so.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The countdown begins. Just 2 WEEKS until the series premiere of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ASeasonWith?src=hash">#ASeasonWith</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball">@NDFootball</a>, Tues. 9/8 at 10p ET/PT. <a href="https://t.co/h0WqZr6QAs">https://t.co/h0WqZr6QAs</a></p>— A Season With (@ASeasonWith) <a href="https://twitter.com/ASeasonWith/status/636239679982051328">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[dublinirish]

He said in that interview that was posted on IE last week that the NFL scouts who have been to camp believe we have to top 10 picks in Stanley and Smith. IMO, it sounded like a lot of his belief is because we have a lot of NFL talent on the roster that should translate to wins. Lets hope so.

so many CFB talking heads who make predictions for upcoming season use NFL potential on a school's roster as their major argument for wins. It's why USC is always ranked high regardless of their situation

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So here's one way to look at our schedule
death is coming
read Rake's Report
<a href="http://t.co/AIs2WOVyYl">http://t.co/AIs2WOVyYl</a> <a href="http://t.co/0YGlNRtkE6">pic.twitter.com/0YGlNRtkE6</a></p>— ndmspaint (@ndmspaint) <a href="https://twitter.com/ndmspaint/status/636556593039982592">August 26, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

The fact remains, he hasn't proven that he can be a factor against good teams. As mentioned before, the guy clearly disappears against elite talent. It's happened every single time.



And the last Super Bowl Colts team, who's entire defense was designed around inside pressure that pushed the QB outside of the pocket and into bad decisions. Yeah, it's great to convert pressure into sacks, but I'll take the defense that had the opposing QB on the run all game with no sacks, then the team that let the opposing QB throw dimes all over the field sans a few plays where they caught the offensive line out of assignment and got some sacks.

There is a key difference here: We don't have the Colts defense that hurries a QB, we have our defense that gets shredded by NW, ASU, USC and damn near every other team we played after the halfway mark.

And this year, we are playing more explosive teams: USC but a ton of returning talent, Clemson has some track stars, BC stomps NW into the ground. GT would dominate ASU or Louisville.

The whole point is that we need more pressure, usually that equates to more sacks. Sure, there are scenarios where our team ends the year with less than 14 total sacks but still created enough pressure to be a successful defense. There's also a possibility I become a millionaire by sitting in my underwear and playing video games but I wouldn't bet on either scenario.

If we're playing the numbers game, sacks are better than no sacks (both a pun and not a pun, Shrodinger's sack...errrr cat...if you will).


We have almost zero proven talent on the defensive line, with a nod to Sheldon Day and we have people turning their noses at Joey Bosa in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I'm not taking a stance of "our defense sucks"...I'm saying we should be cautious with the rampant optimism since we have no idea what BVG can actually do. So far, he has the track record of Tenuta. Diaco did more with less but he didn't experience the catastrophic injuries like last year. Let's hope BVGs defense in the first 3-4 games of last year, was the rule and not the exception.

 

[woolybug25]

There is a key difference here: We don't have the Colts defense that hurries a QB, we have our defense that gets shredded by NW, ASU, USC and damn near every other team we played after the halfway mark.

And this year, we are playing more explosive teams: USC but a ton of returning talent, Clemson has some track stars, BC stomps NW into the ground. GT would dominate ASU or Louisville.

Last year we got shredded... last year... you cant make broad generalizations about players that weren't even playing in most of those games because of injury. On one hand you are saying that we can't assume we'll be better, but are using last year as proof that we can't. It's the same thing.

The whole point is that we need more pressure, usually that equates to more sacks. Sure, there are scenarios where our team ends the year with less than 14 total sacks but still created enough pressure to be a successful defense. There's also a possibility I become a millionaire by sitting in my underwear and playing video games but I wouldn't bet on either scenario.

Not a good analogy. A better comparison would be Becoming a Millionaire = Winning a Championship. Sacks, like a college education, improve your odds. But 20% of millionaires don't have college degrees.

If we're playing the numbers game, sacks are better than no sacks (both a pun and not a pun, Shrodinger's sack...errrr cat...if you will).

Sure... what's the point here? Of course they are, but you can still have a good defense and not have elite sack totals. Ala 2012 ND.

We have almost zero proven talent on the defensive line, with a nod to Sheldon Day and we have people turning their noses at Joey Bosa in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This makes zero sense... so unless we have a better player than X, then we cannot talk about whether they are as good as people think?

And I'm not taking a stance of "our defense sucks"...I'm saying we should be cautious with the rampant optimism since we have no idea what BVG can actually do. So far, he has the track record of Tenuta. Diaco did more with less but he didn't experience the catastrophic injuries like last year. Let's hope BVGs defense in the first 3-4 games of last year, was the rule and not the exception.

True dat.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Last year we got shredded... last year... you cant make broad generalizations about players that weren't even playing in most of those games because of injury. On one hand you are saying that we can't assume we'll be better, but are using last year as proof that we can't. It's the same thing.

I'm saying we should temper the enthusiasm until we see what we have. And I'm more speaking to myself than anyone on this thread. I drink the kool-aid every year and every year save one has disappointed in the Kelly era


Not a good analogy. A better comparison would be Becoming a Millionaire = Winning a Championship. Sacks, like a college education, improve your odds. But 20% of millionaires don't have college degrees.

I'd guess that's a fair comparison but I doubt 20% of successful defenses have low sack numbers. I'm not arguing we need to lead the FBS, just that we need more sacks than we had last year or I can almost guarantee we won't see double digit wins. If you disagree, I'm willing to bet all of my VBucks, as paltry as they are.



Sure... what's the point here? Of course they are, but you can still have a good defense and not have elite sack totals. Ala 2012 ND.

I really just wanted to sound clever with the Schrodinger thing and also make an anatomical innuendo. I wasn't arguing we needed elite sack totals, I was arguing that sacks are a good predictor of great defenses. You can get by without them, just like you can get by without forcing turnovers but when you aren't deficient in an area, it makes it a whole lot easier to be near the top.

This makes zero sense... so unless we have a better player than X, then we cannot talk about whether they are as good as people think?

Not my intent. Unless we also have quality players at a position, it's probably best not to snub our nose at a future top 10 pick at a position of need. But, if he really is overrated, I'm sure that'll show this year. And I'm sure we'll be glad we didn't get him in an Irish uniform.

True dat.

Word

Ow now brown cow. Bolded responses above.

 

[woolybug25]

Ow now brown cow. Bolded responses above.

I'll only touch on the one point, that sacks=better defense, as i've kinda lost interest in the other points (ie i'm lazy). But also, I found it interesting. Here's what I found....

2014 Sack Leaders
1) Utah
2) Washington
3) Utah State
4) Virginia Tech
5) Boise State
6) Stanford
7) Ohio State
8) Clemson
9) Missouri
10) Michigan State

2014 Total Defense Leaders
1) Clemson
2) Penn St.
3) Stanford
4) Wisconsin
5) UCF
6) Louisville
7) Michigan
8) Michigan St.
9) LSU
10) Arkansas

Take from that what you will. But I took this:
- Only two of the top ten sack leaders were in the top ten for total defense. Ironically 20%...
- Six of the ten top sack leaders were ranked in the AP Poll after the season. Only four of the top 10 total defenses. Not a big difference, but weird.
- scUM had a top 10 defense, WTF?

 

[Cackalacky]

I'll only touch on the one point, that sacks=better defense, as i've kinda lost interest in the other points (ie i'm lazy). But also, I found it interesting. Here's what I found....

2014 Sack Leaders
1) Utah
2) Washington
3) Utah State
4) Virginia Tech
5) Boise State
6) Stanford
7) Ohio State
8) Clemson
9) Missouri
10) Michigan State

2014 Total Defense Leaders
1) Clemson
2) Penn St.
3) Stanford
4) Wisconsin
5) UCF
6) Louisville
7) Michigan
8) Michigan St.
9) LSU
10) Arkansas

Take from that what you will. But I took this:
- Only two of the top ten sack leaders were in the top ten for total defense. Ironically 20%...
- Six of the ten top sack leaders were ranked in the AP Poll after the season. Only four of the top 10 total defenses. Not a big difference, but weird.
- scUM had a top 10 defense, WTF?

Yeah, its hard to correlate defensive production from sacks. Thats a hard case to make (not saying anyone is). For the record, FEI has SCUM at 41 on defense. ND was 54.

Also FEI has the following teams in the top 10:

Clemson
Virginia Tech
Mississippi St
TCU
Florida
Louisville
Ohio State
Alabama
Penn State
Virginia
Stanford
Utah
Missouri
Oregon
Georgia

Not to say that they will be that good this year but we play Clemson, Virginia and Stanford out of the top 10 from last year per FEI.

 

[ulukinatme]

- scUM had a top 10 defense, WTF?

Greg Mattison can still coach, but "stealing" Alabama's OC did nothing for Michigan's offense. I know we dropped 37* points on them, but a lot of that had to do with how often Michigan's offense was turning the ball over and not really an indictment of their defense. We only had 280 yards of offense in that game, Michigan actually moved the ball more.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah, its hard to correlate defensive production from sacks. Thats a hard case to make (not saying anyone is). For the record, FEI has SCUM at 41 on defense. ND was 54.

Also FEI has the following teams in the top 10:


Not to say that they will be that good this year but we play Clemson, Virginia and Stanford out of the top 10 from last year per FEI.

Yeah, I used the NCAA rankings.

Total Defense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The countdown begins. Just 2 WEEKS until the series premiere of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ASeasonWith?src=hash">#ASeasonWith</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball">@NDFootball</a>, Tues. 9/8 at 10p ET/PT. <a href="https://t.co/h0WqZr6QAs">https://t.co/h0WqZr6QAs</a></p>— A Season With (@ASeasonWith) <a href="https://twitter.com/ASeasonWith/status/636239679982051328">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Intellectually, I know that this isn't worth an extra $12 a month. I know that. But I still want it...

EDIT: Boom. Added for $5 a month for six months.