General team info

[Irish Insanity]

Did you try Schuler Books? If I'm down that way this week I'll stop in and see if they have the ND cover in stock.

I didn't. I'll probably just order it when it's released as a back issue.

 

[Bluto]

Hopefully Van Gorder takes the best of Bob Diaco's Dfensive concepts against the spread and tempo (zone covergae, limit big plays and tighten up in the red zone) which worked really well and applies it to his defense which is geared toward killing traditional tempo pocket passers, which it did pretty well with healthy personel.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Hopefully Van Gorder takes the best of Bob Diaco's Dfensive concepts against the spread and tempo (zone covergae, limit big plays and tighten up in the red zone) which worked really well and applies it to his defense which is geared toward killing traditional tempo pocket passers, which it did pretty well with healthy personel.

Exactly this. Our defense is so different with BVG's scheme, in order to be a top 25 defense we'll need to create a large number of negative plays and we'll need to be near the top of forced turnovers. Diaco's defense was great for forcing teams to earn it (until the NCG) whereas BVGs defense is predicated on TFL, sacks, confusion and forcing turnovers.

Total different philosophies which require totally different numbers to be a top defense. At least, this is what I've understood. If anyone disagrees, I'd like to hear the reasoning.

 

[Luckylucci]

There is a possibility that he is right about our defense. Going into 2012, we had huge questions at DB (not this year) and a couple of freshmen -- Farley and Russell -- showed up and filled those holes. I have high confidence in the corners this year, and so long as Shumate and Redfield deliver to their potential [and coach-inspired hype] I think we have a really good back end this year. Those young guys from 12 are now the leaders in the backfield this year.

We were pretty stacked at DL in '12, and we seem to be in pretty good shape there this year. Hopefully this is where we will have a couple of young guys (especially eager to see Tillery perform) show up this year, but I think Day is a top 10 DLineman, Rochelle, Trumbetti, Jones, and Williams (if he's allowed back) make up a really solid corps. We have enough guys to keep fresh bodies on the field and not get wore down like last year with the injuries. I'm not going to assume we won't generate a pass rush until I see it play out on the field.

At LB, I have no doubt that Jaylon is going to be lights out. Schmidt is a soldier out there and he will offer consistency, toughness and leadership. Between Grace, Morgan, and the new young guys we have some pretty high potential and all those guys could deliver quality minutes.

I will say this ... I feel better about the defense going into this season than I did going into '12, and that defense ended up being pretty darn good.

I appreciate the optimism but the thought of any team producing that kind of defensive season is pretty unrealistic. No defense in college football held their opponents to under 13pts/game last season. That defense allowed an average of 305.5 yds./game and 12.8pts./game. We'll be nowhere close to that. I call a really good season if we allow 20-25pts./game and around 350yds./game.

You make a good point that nobody expected it then because in reality nobody should expect that type of performance. One of the reasons 2013 everybody felt let down when we only allowed 23pts./game. If we duplicate 2013's defensive performance (statistically) we'll big in very good shape.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Hopefully Van Gorder takes the best of Bob Diaco's Dfensive concepts against the spread and tempo (zone covergae, limit big plays and tighten up in the red zone) which worked really well and applies it to his defense which is geared toward killing traditional tempo pocket passers, which it did pretty well with healthy personel.

We could tighten up in the red zone in 2012 because we had arguably the best 3-4 DL in the country combined with a Heisman candidate in the middle, not because Diaco's scheming. When the personnel left/underperformed the next year we didn't have nearly the red zone effectiveness we had in 2012.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame adds Sept. 14, 2019 home game w/New Mexico, coached by former Irish coach Bob Davie</p>— Brett McMurphy (@McMurphyESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/631844464584167424">August 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

We could tighten up in the red zone in 2012 because we had arguably the best 3-4 DL in the country combined with a Heisman candidate in the middle, not because Diaco's scheming. When the personnel left/underperformed the next year we didn't have nearly the red zone effectiveness we had in 2012.

Compared to 2012 no defense will match up but 2013 was still much better than the last 2 decades on average of ND defense. I put the stat above, its 23pts./game and the yards were 366/game. That would have put us around 30th in the country last year for pts/game and 40th for yards/game. We probably win 10+ games with those numbers last year.

 

[ACamp1900]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame adds Sept. 14, 2019 home game w/New Mexico, coached by former Irish coach Bob Davie</p>— Brett McMurphy (@McMurphyESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/631844464584167424">August 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

awesome.

 

[NDdomer2]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/brian-kelly-has-learned-what-s-needed-to-succeed-at-notre-dame-and-what-needs-to-improve-005225370.html

 

[Irish YJ]

Singe game tix email this morning
Umass Wake and Navy
NOTRE DAME FIGHTING IRISH | Online Ticket Office | Event/Item List

 

[alohagoirish]

Notre dame defense is simply loaded with question marks....projecting a dominating defense is simply unfettered optimism.

Will the defensive line hold up?
Will we be able to hold the middle without jones?

We lack an elite pass rusher and BVGs scheme calls many blitzes that only accomplish taking guys out of the secondary levels......too similar to tenuta for comfort.

Joe S is coming back from a serious injury can he play at last years level from the get go......remember Joe was 110% type of player and he needed all of that to play so well, how long against our front loaded schedule before he finds his sea legs?

We have question marks at both Safety & Nickel....those of you who feel confident with Butler at nickel should be cautious.....Safety is also a very big question mark.

We have no star at DE will we get any kind of effective pass rush from the down 4.

#3 LB is a melting pot of unproven players.

BVGs scheme overall is unproven...and often confusing for the players.

Remember last year we played good defense early but those teams , including Stanford , were ranked between #85 and #105 in offensive production so those early games are somewhat misleading.

We have very good starting corners....a great AA type player at one LB and one albeit injury prone star at DT in Day....

Beyond that the proof will be in the pudding but there clearly our many question marks.

 

[koonja]

Anyone here part of the ND club of MN?

 

[NDdomer2]

Notre dame defense is simply loaded with question marks....projecting a dominating defense is simply unfettered optimism.

Will the defensive line hold up?
Will we be able to hold the middle without jones?

We lack an elite pass rusher and BVGs scheme calls many blitzes that only accomplish taking guys out of the secondary levels......too similar to tenuta for comfort.

Joe S is coming back from a serious injury can he play at last years level from the get go......remember Joe was 110% type of player and he needed all of that to play so well, how long against our front loaded schedule before he finds his sea legs?

We have question marks at both Safety & Nickel....those of you who feel confident with Butler at nickel should be cautious.....Safety is also a very big question mark.

We have no star at DE will we get any kind of effective pass rush from the down 4.

#3 LB is a melting pot of unproven players.

BVGs scheme overall is unproven...and often confusing for the players.

Remember last year we played good defense early but those teams , including Stanford , were ranked between #85 and #105 in offensive production so those early games are somewhat misleading.

We have very good starting corners....a great AA type player at one LB and one albeit injury prone star at DT in Day....

Beyond that the proof will be in the pudding but there clearly our many question marks.

I dont think Butler is playing the Nickel. He is outside corner when we are in nickel D. IIRC.

Also, it isnt like NW had some highly ranked Offensive unit that we hadnt seen like you portray. The defense (unproven i agree) was still much better than the product on the field down the stretch. So there are large questions that you point out, but this D is better than what we saw at the end of the regular season last year.

And, if the D is somewhere in between, and our O can still put up 35 per like they were, this team shouldn't have too many problems winning games.

 

[PANDFAN]

I dont think Butler is playing the Nickel. He is outside corner when we are in nickel D. IIRC.

that's correct ...kvr will be the nickleback

 

[Crazy Balki]

Notre dame defense is simply loaded with question marks....projecting a dominating defense is simply unfettered optimism. You could say the same thing about the 2012 defense though. This team is deeper and the secondary that year was a huge concern, much more so than the DL is this year.

Will the defensive line hold up? I'm concerned about NT, but I think a lot of people are underrating Cage as a player. He's not Jones-type athlete, but he plays mean, really mean. Tillery is just an technically sound, monstrous athlete. He'll have freshman inconsistencies, but he has the potential to be an exception to the rule.
Will we be able to hold the middle without jones?

We lack an elite pass rusher and BVGs scheme calls many blitzes that only accomplish taking guys out of the secondary levels......too similar to tenuta for comfort. This has been discussed. BVG is nothing anywhere near like Tenuta. BVG doesn't blitz as often and his packages are much more subtle and less predictable. Needless to say, he's not going to bring the house every down like Tenuta did. As for elite pass rushers, I think we were hoping the same thing in 2012. We had lost our only legitimate elite pass rusher in Aaron Lynch, and we were hoping Tuitt and Shembo could develop into good ones. They did. Gotta be patient.

Joe S is coming back from a serious injury can he play at last years level from the get go......remember Joe was 110% type of player and he needed all of that to play so well, how long against our front loaded schedule before he finds his sea legs? Joe is back and playing at 100%. There's a lot more leadership and knowledge about the defense that he won't be asked to do as much in terms of lining guys up. He can focus mainly on his own assignments.

We have question marks at both Safety & Nickel....those of you who feel confident with Butler at nickel should be cautious.....Safety is also a very big question mark. Butler hasn't been at Nickel. It's been either Russell or Farley. Safety is only a real big question mark behind Redfield, where Farley would be the backup, who's at least serviceable.

We have no star at DE will we get any kind of effective pass rush from the down 4. You just asked this. Like I said, we didn't know if we would get an effective pass rush from an inexperienced Tuitt and Shembo. We did. Be patient.

#3 LB is a melting pot of unproven players. Huh? The starting 3 are projected to be Jaylon, Schmidt and Onwualu. All of which started last season. The other guys, Morgan, Martini and Grace, have all played and started as well. Coney is the only guy who's yet to see time.

BVGs scheme overall is unproven...and often confusing for the players. BVG's scheme has worked in the past. What makes his scheme so confusing that our guys can't comprehend it, but UGA players could. Again, making a bigger deal of the situation than it really is.

Remember last year we played good defense early but those teams , including Stanford , were ranked between #85 and #105 in offensive production so those early games are somewhat misleading. Not really. Michigan didn't have a good offense, but we still were the only team to shut them out in the last 30 years. Not saying they were elite last year, but even earlier in the year, the defense was paper thin and still lacking leadership.

We have very good starting corners....a great AA type player at one LB and one albeit injury prone star at DT in Day.... ...okay?

Beyond that the proof will be in the pudding but there clearly our many question marks. We have a lot more than just that. Way more contributing guys on defense.

Seriously, R-E-L-A-X.

 

[ND NYC]

long, sustained drives (with minimal turnovers) while keeping our d OFF the field and with fresh legs, is my hope for this year...not a fan of the Kelly era shootouts with either a quickstrike or a 3 and out.

does anyone know what our time of possession is under Kelly since hes been here? has it increased/decreased/stayed about the same?

 

[GrangerIrish24]

that's correct ...kvr will be the nickleback

He's a part that horrible band from Canada?

 

[woolybug25]

long, sustained drives (with minimal turnovers) while keeping our d OFF the field and with fresh legs, is my hope for this year...not a fan of the Kelly era shootouts with either a quickstrike or a 3 and out.

does anyone know what our time of possession is under Kelly since hes been here? has it increased/decreased/stayed about the same?

29:51 in '14 and 29:06 in '13.

In '14, we were 63rd overall. Better than Georgia, Florida St & Oregon. Pretty much right in the middle of the pack, in a year that we were 81st in the country in TO margin. If we would have been a top team in TO margin, then we would have most likely had one of the better TOP in the league.

Reality is drastically different than what you assumed.

 

[ozzman]

11 minute mark. Feldman loves ND on Jim Rome
Audio « The Jim Rome Show

 

[ND NYC]

29:51 in '14 and 29:06 in '13.

In '14, we were 63rd overall. Better than Georgia, Florida St & Oregon. Pretty much right in the middle of the pack, in a year that we were 81st in the country in TO margin. If we would have been a top team in TO margin, then we would have most likely had one of the better TOP in the league.

Reality is drastically different than what you assumed.

any idea what average TOP was for teams that finished in the top 5 last year?
in other words, does higher (or a "very high") TOP translate to wins in CFB?

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Ran into a pro scout for the today in front of Eddy St Commons. He said it was his fourth time here since spring ball. Wouldn't say who he was primarily scouting but said they have several ND guys they view as first round picks.

 

[gkIrish]

Ran into a pro scout for the today in front of Eddy St Commons. He said it was his fourth time here since spring ball. Wouldn't say who he was primarily scouting but said they have several ND guys they view as first round picks.

Out of curiosity, how did you know he was a pro scout?

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Out of curiosity, how did you know he was a pro scout?

He was sitting at a table next to me and I overheard(eavesdropped) on his phone conversation. Then I noticed his Lions attire.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Seriously, R-E-L-A-X.

Regarding the pass rush and DE's, Sean, check the following:

In 2007, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2008, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2009, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2010, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2011, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2014, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.

So that's great, in 2012, for ONE year, we were worried for no reason. Every other year, it was a problem. So maybe you should stop telling people to be patient - it's a legitimate concern. It might work out, and we all hope it does, but considering the guy you told us over and over was an "elite athlete" that would allay our fears about DE's (Trumbetti, who has an elite motor but is definitely NOT an elite athlete compared to true elite pass rushers) hasn't stood out in camp and can't even win a starting spot, well, there's reason to be concerned.

You can't just whisk away problems with kool-aid alone. And please, telling people to R-E-L-A-X? Weren't you the one who wanted, no, "DEMANDED" and "DESERVED" to find out some inside info to the point that you were banned? Aren't you the one who flipped out to the point where you claimed that Kelly would always be a mediocre coach, even starting a thread arguing with people why he isn't even a good coach, much less a great coach? And now you're telling people to relax when they dare question what a "mediocre" coach like Brian Kelly does?

C'mon man.

 

[BGIF]

Regarding the pass rush and DE's, Sean, check the following:

In 2007, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2008, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2009, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2010, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2011, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2014, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.

So that's great, in 2012, for ONE year, we were worried for no reason. Every other year, it was a problem. So maybe you should stop telling people to be patient - it's a legitimate concern. It might work out, and we all hope it does, but considering the guy you told us over and over was an "elite athlete" that would allay our fears about DE's (Trumbetti, who has an elite motor but is definitely NOT an elite athlete compared to true elite pass rushers) hasn't stood out in camp and can't even win a starting spot, well, there's reason to be concerned.

You can't just whisk away problems with kool-aid alone. And please, telling people to R-E-L-A-X? Weren't you the one who wanted, no, "DEMANDED" and "DESERVED" to find out some inside info to the point that you were banned? Aren't you the one who flipped out to the point where you claimed that Kelly would always be a mediocre coach, even starting a thread arguing with people why he isn't even a good coach, much less a great coach? And now you're telling people to relax when they dare question what a "mediocre" coach like Brian Kelly does?

C'mon man.

NDinL.A. with a preseason sack!

 

[BGIF]

any idea what average TOP was for teams that finished in the top 5 last year?
in other words, does higher (or a "very high") TOP translate to wins in CFB?

Not necessarily so.

Here's the Top 5 + ND from the Final Coaches Poll. TOP = Time of Possession, Rank = TOP ranking in Average Minutes/Game.

MSU dominated this group by over 3 and 1/2 minutes BUT 10 teams averaged at least 33 mintues/game including Rice W/L 8-5, CMU 7-6, and BC 7-6.

In TOP Ranking UTEP was #2 W/L 7-6, GT #3, 11-3, ARK #4, 7-6, PIT #5 had a losing season at 6-7.

ND and OSU were the only ones that didn't play a 1AA team to skew the numbers.

Spartans opened with a 45-7 win over 1AA Jacksonville St.
TCU played Stephen Austin
Bama rolled over Western Carolina 48-14
ORE had Eastern Washington
OSU played a BIG schedule

Poll	Team	TOP	Rank
5	MSU	35:21:15	1
4	ALA	31:44:50	20
1	OSU	31:30:27	26
3	TCU	30:37:38	43
28	ND	29:51:23	64
2	ORE	26:49:05	121

 

[Crazy Balki]

Regarding the pass rush and DE's, Sean, check the following:

In 2007, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2008, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2009, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2010, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2011, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.
In 2014, we were worried about the pash rush...we never found one.

So that's great, in 2012, for ONE year, we were worried for no reason. Every other year, it was a problem. So maybe you should stop telling people to be patient - it's a legitimate concern. It might work out, and we all hope it does, but considering the guy you told us over and over was an "elite athlete" that would allay our fears about DE's (Trumbetti, who has an elite motor but is definitely NOT an elite athlete compared to true elite pass rushers) hasn't stood out in camp and can't even win a starting spot, well, there's reason to be concerned.

You can't just whisk away problems with kool-aid alone. And please, telling people to R-E-L-A-X? Weren't you the one who wanted, no, "DEMANDED" and "DESERVED" to find out some inside info to the point that you were banned? Aren't you the one who flipped out to the point where you claimed that Kelly would always be a mediocre coach, even starting a thread arguing with people why he isn't even a good coach, much less a great coach? And now you're telling people to relax when they dare question what a "mediocre" coach like Brian Kelly does?

C'mon man.

Tsk tsk LA, you know better than this...

2007-2009, I can barely dignify with a response. Weis couldn't develop the trenches to save his bloody life, what baring does he have with Kelly's track record?

2010 was essentially all with undeveloped Weis players, so non-factor again.
2011 ...LA, are you serious? I know he was only here for 1 season, but did you blank Aaron Lynch from your memory? He was an elite pass rusher, despite him being a total head case.
2014 You start a sophomore with little to no pass rushing ability, a true freshman behind him, a recently moved OLB on the other side, a true freshman behind him, lose the only legitimately experienced edge rusher on the team and expect a good pass rush? We were worried about finding a pass rush, but hope was more of the answer than legitimate answers.

Outside of 2012, we haven't had this type of talent and experience on the edge in the last 9 years, despite the concerns. Oh yeah, and by the way, way to bring up totally irrelevant points having nothing to do with the point at hand. You're STILL bringing this garbage up? Jesus f*cking Christ...Didn't I already answer this shit on ISD? I did, now shut up about it. I'm tired of this LA. You're like the ND fan rendition of Family Guy, beating a dead horse with another dead horse.

That's right, Balki with the preseason sack...

 

[Cackalacky]

Tsk tsk LA, you know better than this...

2007-2009, I can barely dignify with a response. Weis couldn't develop the trenches to save his bloody life, what baring does he have with Kelly's track record?

2010 was essentially all with undeveloped Weis players, so non-factor again.
2011 ...LA, are you serious? I know he was only here for 1 season, but did you blank Aaron Lynch from your memory? He was an elite pass rusher, despite him being a total head case.
2014 You start a sophomore with little to no pass rushing ability, a true freshman behind him, a recently moved OLB on the other side, a true freshman behind him, lose the only legitimately experienced edge rusher on the team and expect a good pass rush? We were worried about finding a pass rush, but hope was more of the answer than legitimate answers.

Outside of 2012, we haven't had this type of talent and experience on the edge in the last 9 years, despite the concerns. Oh yeah, and by the way, way to bring up totally irrelevant points having nothing to do with the point at hand. You're STILL bringing this garbage up? Jesus f*cking Christ...Didn't I already answer this shit on ISD? I did, now shut up about it. I'm tired of this LA. You're like the ND fan rendition of Family Guy, beating a dead horse with another dead horse.

That's right, Balki with the preseason sack...

In all honesty, all you did was confirm Hollywood's post brother...... Regardless of the coach or what players we have had ready or not, underclassmen or not, 2012 was the only season in recent memory where we had a decent, not great, decent pass rush. Last year was the closest to 2012 but even that was not enough. Sure there were some high spots here and there but Diaco's system never generated the pass rush either by plan or not and QBs have not had it rough against NDs DL outside of 1/2 of 2014 and most of 2012.

As for Weis' teams, outside of Hayseed, Ethan Johnson and Fleming, I am really struggling to even come up with a defensive pass rusher that was consistently producing.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

You guys are worried about the pass rush but yet we had more sacks than Florida St last year and one other team who made the 4 team playoff.

 

[Cackalacky]

You guys are worried about the pass rush but yet we had more sacks than Florida St last year and one other team who made the 4 team playoff.

True, but we also blitzed more last year than any under Diaco, and we aslo gave up tons of chunk and large gain plays because of it when we didn't get home. It worked well when we had the personnel in place the first half of the season, but the same philosophy with players not ready or incapable of performing said tasks are a major liability. We now have more untested players on the DL this year. How good are the other DL people that Tillery comes in ans wins the job? Tillery is a talent and may dominate but that really is saying something when we have other upperclassmen that he beat out.

Consider me very worried about a pass rush this year especially in BVGs system.