Game of Thrones

[ACamp1900]

Jon is the closest thing ASOIAF has to a Lawful Good character that hasn't already been ripped to shreds by soulless d-bags like the Freys, which makes me think that GRRM will likely make him much more morally gray when he returns.

FIFY

 

[Whiskeyjack]

FIFY

He was ripped to shreds by d-bags like Aliser Thorne and Bowen Marsh instead. Luckily for us, he's one of the few that happened to be shredded near a Red Priestess.

 

[IrishLion]

That shithead Ollie developed a very punchable face there at the end.

ToJ blue balls.

I was wrong about Theon. Pissed about Shaggy Dog. Even more pissed at Osha for getting caught.

Can't wait to see Jon Snow pwn some fools.

 

[johnnycando]

That shithead Ollie developed a very punchable face there at the end.

ToJ blue balls.

I was wrong about Theon. Pissed about Shaggy Dog. Even more pissed at Osha for getting caught.

Can't wait to see Jon Snow pwn some fools.

 

[gkIrish]

Really enjoyed about half the scenes. I wish they didn't try to fit in 10 different subplots into 1 episode.

The Good:
1) The Arya stuff was awesome. What name did she forget? I can't remember.
2) Castle Black stuff was awesome. Love how they just focused on Olly's dead face for 5 seconds.
3) Does anyone else think Gilly is pregnant with Sam's child? The way she said it made me think that but obviously we are meant to think she was referring to little Sam.
4) ToJ was pretty cool. Not sure what the deal is with making Ned seem dishonorable though.
5) Septon/Tommen was good. Looks like Tommen is being brainwashed.

The Bad:
1) Why are they suddenly referring to Gregor by that name instead of Robert Strong...it's not a big deal but why even call him Robert Strong in the first place? Unless I'm forgetting something it seems like they just went from Robert Strong back to Gregor Clegane in between episodes with no explanation.
2) Daenarys just sucks so much. When is she going to do something that is actually relevant to the general plot? Literally nothing is going on with her.
3) They are really screwing up two great characters. Tyrion and Jaime went from being cool and interesting to whatever the opposite of that is. Jaime in particular is back to being a stooge.

 

[Irish YJ]

Didn't ever think I'd be happy with a kid being hung lol.

Also glad Jon Snow's watch is over. Hoping he heads home and takes care of business.

 

[phillyirish]

I like the reference toward Gregors trial by combat, pumped for that. Also like Jons watch ending.

Didn't like tower of joy, seemed way cooler in the books. Would it be that difficult to add the third kingsguard?? As well as giving Dayne his sword dawn rather than having him duel wield like some prequel Jedi.

 

[IrishLax]

Really enjoyed about half the scenes. I wish they didn't try to fit in 10 different subplots into 1 episode.

The Good:
1) The Arya stuff was awesome. What name did she forget? I can't remember.
2) Castle Black stuff was awesome. Love how they just focused on Olly's dead face for 5 seconds.
3) Does anyone else think Gilly is pregnant with Sam's child? The way she said it made me think that but obviously we are meant to think she was referring to little Sam.
4) ToJ was pretty cool. Not sure what the deal is with making Ned seem dishonorable though.
5) Septon/Tommen was good. Looks like Tommen is being brainwashed.

The Bad:
1) Why are they suddenly referring to Gregor by that name instead of Robert Strong...it's not a big deal but why even call him Robert Strong in the first place? Unless I'm forgetting something it seems like they just went from Robert Strong back to Gregor Clegane in between episodes with no explanation.
2) Daenarys just sucks so much. When is she going to do something that is actually relevant to the general plot? Literally nothing is going on with her.
3) They are really screwing up two great characters. Tyrion and Jaime went from being cool and interesting to whatever the opposite of that is. Jaime in particular is back to being a stooge.

Well put.

I think the ToJ -- in terms of over-emphasis on the "stabbing him in the back" and not actually beating him fair and square -- was to show that "spoken history" is full of flaws. They're doing this to soften the reveal that the legend of Rhaegar "kidnapping and raping" Lyanna was twisted... so people don't go "wtf you just lied to us for 5 seasons!?!"

That's why they have Bran say "I know what happens, I've heard the story a hundred times" and then be all "wut!?! NO WAY!"

 

[IrishLax]

for ToJ, I can't believe they didn't spring fora 3rd Kingsguard. And I can't believe they had Dayne dual-wield for seemingly no reason

 

[NOLAIrish]

Really enjoyed about half the scenes. I wish they didn't try to fit in 10 different subplots into 1 episode.

The Good:
1) The Arya stuff was awesome. What name did she forget? I can't remember.
2) Castle Black stuff was awesome. Love how they just focused on Olly's dead face for 5 seconds.
3) Does anyone else think Gilly is pregnant with Sam's child? The way she said it made me think that but obviously we are meant to think she was referring to little Sam.
4) ToJ was pretty cool. Not sure what the deal is with making Ned seem dishonorable though.
5) Septon/Tommen was good. Looks like Tommen is being brainwashed.

The Bad:
1) Why are they suddenly referring to Gregor by that name instead of Robert Strong...it's not a big deal but why even call him Robert Strong in the first place? Unless I'm forgetting something it seems like they just went from Robert Strong back to Gregor Clegane in between episodes with no explanation.
2) Daenarys just sucks so much. When is she going to do something that is actually relevant to the general plot? Literally nothing is going on with her.
3) They are really screwing up two great characters. Tyrion and Jaime went from being cool and interesting to whatever the opposite of that is. Jaime in particular is back to being a stooge.

Lots of interesting thoughts.

On 1), Arya left off Melisandre and Ilyn Payne. She stopped saying Thoros and Barric a season or two back, so they may have just cut Melisandre from the list as well. Maybe it was a subtle nod to Ilyn Payne who has been written out of the show as the actor deals with pancreatic cancer?

I'm with you on the Essos storylines being pretty bogged down. To me the problem is that we've reached a point with those stories where we're not advancing the plot or the characters at this point. Tyrion and Varys already know how to govern and quash rebellions and Daenerys already knows how to evade attempts to control her, so seeing them faced with more of these kinds of challenges just feels like filler. The show could get away with it if the location or the surrounding characters felt new or interesting, but it's all pretty same-y and bland.

On Robert Strong/Gregor -- I'm guessing they decided the name change might confuse TV audiences, so they swapped back to Gregor.

I've gotta say, I'm not super excited we're getting Rickon back.

Interested to see what they do with Jon Snow now. The ending could signal that he's headed south to face off with Ramsey, or he could be headed for a crisis of purpose. I hope they stay away from the latter. We already have enough characters trying to "find" themselves right now.

 

[NOLAIrish]

Well put.

I think the ToJ -- in terms of over-emphasis on the "stabbing him in the back" and not actually beating him fair and square -- was to show that "spoken history" is full of flaws. They're doing this to soften the reveal that the legend of Rhaegar "kidnapping and raping" Lyanna was twisted... so people don't go "wtf you just lied to us for 5 seasons!?!"

That's why they have Bran say "I know what happens, I've heard the story a hundred times" and then be all "wut!?! NO WAY!"

I took it that way, too. Also, doesn't Ned hint at it in the books? Something like "I wouldn't be here if not for Howland Reed"?

for ToJ, I can't believe they didn't spring fora 3rd Kingsguard. And I can't believe they had Dayne dual-wield for seemingly no reason

Maybe he's inside with Lyanna?

 

[gkIrish]

Selfishly I'm also pretty mad that they didn't actually show a nude Deanerys. I understand she refuses to do it but on a show where they showed a woman parading down the street naked for about 5 minutes it's really inconsistent to have a scene like the one this episode and to not show actual nudity. Just don't make that part of the scene.

 

[IrishLion]

I think they had Dayne dual-weilding to show very clearly that "this guy is a badass" to non-readers.

It's easier to create the mystique about a character and his sword in the books than it is in a show. In the show, they never really had a fluid way to describe Dayne and his sword that would have stuck in the viewers' minds, unless they gave him some earlier scenes, which wasn't possible.

 

[greyhammer90]

Enjoyed this episode for the most part. There was little that stuck out to me as being stupid unlike the last two episodes.

Dany still sucks. So sick of her title recital bullshit.

"I am Daenerys Targaryen, Khaleesi, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of the Andals and Westeros, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains."
...
"Yeah no one cares bitch."

 

[gkIrish]

Enjoyed this episode for the most part. There was little that stuck out to me as being stupid unlike the last two episodes.

Dany still sucks. So sick of her title recital bullshit.

"I am Daenerys Targaryen, Khaleesi, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of the Andals and Westeros, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains."
...
"Yeah no one cares bitch."

Thought the same thing. If I hear that one more time I might throw something at the TV. Next time it should go like this:

"I am Daen--" The Rock jumps in with IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR NAME IS

 

[koonja]

Selfishly I'm also pretty mad that they didn't actually show a nude Deanerys. I understand she refuses to do it but on a show where they showed a woman parading down the street naked for about 5 minutes it's really inconsistent to have a scene like the one this episode and to not show actual nudity. Just don't make that part of the scene.

To me she's the hottest woman in the world

 

[gkIrish]

To me she's the hottest woman in the world

She's up there in real life.

 

[phork]

Agreed on all points. Dany needs to actually do something ad infinitum. However, in regards to the TOJ scene you have to remember that a lot of TV watchers are not book readers. Book readers read the text and construct in their minds via Martin's very detailed blueprints. When you get to the show you can only do so much with the level of detail. Therefore, you will be constantly disappointed.

Not having the 7 vs 3 fight is interesting, but again the time press. This fight was probably epic and lasted quite a bit of time. Again book readers suffer from the TV Time hammer. Frankly I think non-book readers for the most part are still scratching their heads. Howland who? Dayne what?

 

[gkIrish]

Couple of things I saw on Reddit this morning that I want to get everyone's thoughts on:

1) Did Smalljon Umber actually kill Summer or is he faking everything? Some people think the wolf head was too small to be a direwolf. IIRC, Smalljon was killed during the Red Wedding in the books so this is completely original content....

2) Are we actually going to get Cleganebowl?? There were so many hints in this episode. I realllllly hope we do.

 

[Corry]

I don't think it's a fake Shaggy Dogg head. What does that advance in the plot? What I really can't wrap my head around is Small Jon. We go from the Great Jon, one of Robb's most loyal bannermen to the Small Jon, an opportunist who's willing to sacrifice a Stark for his own gain.

 

[IrishLax]

Anyone else think the scenes from next week look super soft?

 

[gkIrish]

Anyone else think the scenes from next week look super soft?

Yes I did. It looked like we are not getting any Jon Snow, Bran, Arya, or Ramsay scenes (which I think have been the highlights of the season so far).

 

[irishroo]

I don't think it's a fake Shaggy Dogg head. What does that advance in the plot? What I really can't wrap my head around is Small Jon. We go from the Great Jon, one of Robb's most loyal bannermen to the Small Jon, an opportunist who's willing to sacrifice a Stark for his own gain.

If true, this would be the first step in revealing the Grand Northern Conspiracy that many have put forth online (if not familiar, read about it here:Game of Thrones: The Grand Northern Conspiracy). Would be an incredibly satisfying direction to take the North storyline, which means it almost certainly isn't true because George Martin wants to make us miserable. We will see

 

[ND NYC]

so....Howland Reed will be witness to what young Ned finds/discovers in the Tower of Joy.
and, in the books he is still alive correct?

 

[ACamp1900]

so....Howland Reed will be witness to what young Ned finds/discovers in the Tower of Joy.
and, in the books he is still alive correct?

He is this big mystery in the books unless by some crazy chance he is reveled in one of the Dany chapters I just skipped over... Since like the second book I have been waiting for this great reveal..............

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Enjoyed that one. Aside from Jon's resurrection in S6E2--which had been all-but confirmed many months prior--I felt like that episode was the single most revelatory for book readers yet. Confirmed several important fan theories about ToJ and Jon's watch ending.

Well put.

I think the ToJ -- in terms of over-emphasis on the "stabbing him in the back" and not actually beating him fair and square -- was to show that "spoken history" is full of flaws. They're doing this to soften the reveal that the legend of Rhaegar "kidnapping and raping" Lyanna was twisted... so people don't go "wtf you just lied to us for 5 seasons!?!"

That's why they have Bran say "I know what happens, I've heard the story a hundred times" and then be all "wut!?! NO WAY!"

Benioff & Weis confirmed that explicitly in the after-show commentary.

for ToJ, I can't believe they didn't spring fora 3rd Kingsguard. And I can't believe they had Dayne dual-wield for seemingly no reason

I think they had Dayne dual-weilding to show very clearly that "this guy is a badass" to non-readers.

It's easier to create the mystique about a character and his sword in the books than it is in a show. In the show, they never really had a fluid way to describe Dayne and his sword that would have stuck in the viewers' minds, unless they gave him some earlier scenes, which wasn't possible.

Apologies in advance for the pendantry, but I hated their portrayal of Dayne. Sure, it's a low-budget way to tell the Shownlies that "this is an exceptionally skilled knight". But for a series that prides itself on its gritty medieval realism, it's just so lazy and unnecessary; "dual-wielding" is the sole province of video-games and bad fantasy flicks, particularly with all the twirling bullshit. How much more difficult would it have been to just give him a great-sword, make it glow via CGI, and have him body people that way instead?

I took it that way, too. Also, doesn't Ned hint at it in the books? Something like "I wouldn't be here if not for Howland Reed"?

Yup. That's one mystery explained.

Selfishly I'm also pretty mad that they didn't actually show a nude Deanerys. I understand she refuses to do it but on a show where they showed a woman parading down the street naked for about 5 minutes it's really inconsistent to have a scene like the one this episode and to not show actual nudity. Just don't make that part of the scene.

Clarke had several scenes of full-frontal nudity in Season 1, which are easily found online. But she was a nobody then. Now she's a big deal, so I wouldn't expect any more scenes like that.

 

[ND NYC]

the good/bad thing about the Bran visionquests with Bloodraven is that pretty much any part of westeros history can now be updated/changed by showrunners.
if nothing else this (hopefully) could lead to a few surprises for even the most devout and astute book readers.

 

[ACamp1900]

So the show showed the scene where Ned and Howland defeat The Sword of the Morning?? I loved that flashback in GoT... that's pretty cool, I'd love to see how they portrayed Howland Reed....

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So the show showed the scene where Ned and Howland defeat The Sword of the Morning?? I loved that flashback in GoT... that's pretty cool, I'd love to see how they portrayed Howland Reed....

Just a (not even remotely short) dude. Though this was a flashback featuring "young" Ned, Howland, etc. So TIFWIW.

 

[ACamp1900]

I guess the basic overall facial look fits but he wasn't short huh? interesting. Was his fighting style unique or anything? I always got the impression they ( crannogmen) have this very unique/different/funky way....